Duck, Sniper! (Lets be nice to each other :))

[Achilles]

I will do my best to be neutral and to deal with any forms of disrespect I see - is that acceptable?

No disrespect (and no pun intended), but I seriously doubt this. Not because I don't think you have awesome intentions, but because I don't think you can impact the honesty quotient of others.

 

I'm sorry about the disappointing days

Not your fault. I still have hope for you

[Jae Onasi]

I'm sorry you think that people disagreeing with your opinions means they must be lying. It's not the case. I can't convince you otherwise, so I guess that's it.

 

I will ask one thing--if you're so disappointed with this forum, why do you stay? There's no point in doing something that makes you miserable.

[Tommycat]

I would say it is very disrespectful to call someone a liar without proof. That is a character judgement without evidence.

 

I personally think that people should afford people a little courtesy. Avoid personal attacks. If you feel they are wrong on an issue, state why you think they are wrong. Don't call them names and insult them. Of course I can understand it in some cases, as I have been party to it enough times that I can't claim to be perfect. I strive to, though I admit the past 8 years of politics has worn me a little thin on some subjects. I say give others the respect you would want for yourself.... scratch that, give them the respect you would want them to give your mother.

[Achilles]

I'm sorry you think that people disagreeing with your opinions means they must be lying. It's not the case. I can't convince you otherwise, so I guess that's it.

You're taking what appears to be an especially personal interest in this, Jae. Why is that?

 

And yes, there is huge difference between disagreeing with a position and being dishonest. I'm quite capable of recognizing both. It's not as though dishonest debate tactics are that varied or difficult to recognize. I have no problem with disagreement. I do have a problem with dishonesty and double standards.

 

I will ask one thing--if you're so disappointed with this forum, why do you stay? There's no point in doing something that makes you miserable.

I think you're taking my comment further than I intended it to be taken. At what point did I say I was disappointed with the forum?

[Jae Onasi]

You're taking what appears to be an especially personal interest in this, Jae. Why is that?

That's because you have, over the last year or so, accused me of dishonesty, without any proof of such, more often than everyone else combined here. Why are you asking when you already know this? By all means, present your proof here for everyone to see just what you mean by my 'dishonesty', where I intentionally and maliciously intended to deceive you.

 

I think you're taking my comment further than I intended it to be taken. At what point did I say I was disappointed with the forum?

All right, my mistake. I'm sorry some people, a few people, most people, or even just one person, and/or their/his/her comments disappoint you. I think that disappointment is stemming from your desire for this forum, its participants, and/or comments within it, to be something that was never intended.

 

The consensus of people who participated in the thread asking if the Senate and Kavar's should be merged clearly indicated that people wanted a friendly place to discuss (not to be confused with formal debate) their thoughts on more serious issues, separate from the more debate-oriented Senate. This forum does not meet your needs as well as the Senate, and likely never will, because the consensus was not to turn it into that type of forum. With your constant emphasis on fallacies and argument structure (and/or the lack thereof), I think you are expecting a particular mode of formal debate that those of us who conceived Kavar's and many of us who participate here, never intended. The staff is not going to change that to accommodate one person when the consensus is obviously otherwise, particularly when another forum is available that already meets your needs in that department. This is a gaming forum filled with teens who do not have the formal education to debate at the graduate debate level you appear to want. Expecting participants here not only to debate, but to do it at your level of proficiency without your years of education and debate experience, is both unrealistic and unfair.

[mimartin]

I both agree and disagree. Depends on the respect referred to

I was referring to true respect in my comments. I can treat someone respectfully without really having any respect for him or her. There is a big difference between being polite and respecting someone. By being polite, I am not showing respect for another, but myself.

[El Sitherino]

You know what you do when you see someone lying? You respectfully post facts, like you're supposed to in a debate. If you're questioned then simply post your source(s).

 

Everyone should remain civil, however light-hearted banter is encouraged. At least this is my feeling. Again new addition has been made by myself to the Kavar rules, I suggest everyone read over that thread in general. Remember, we all have our own feelings, it's up to us to keep them in check.

[Pavlos]

I blame violent media and games.

I agree! We should form some sort of... some sort of... committee or something!

[Achilles]

Jae,

 

Apparently my response has been snipped. Interestingly this just further exemplifies my concerns regarding the double standard. I'm just posting to let you know that I was not ignoring your comments and did try to reply in good faith.

 

Take care.

 

It was not moderated by me. In fact, I didn't even know about it until I checked this thread a couple minutes ago and saw the action. Just to clarify that.

Please take care as well. --Jae

 

You know what you do when you see someone lying? You respectfully post facts, like you're supposed to in a debate. If you're questioned then simply post your source(s).

 

Everyone should remain civil, however light-hearted banter is encouraged. At least this is my feeling. Again new addition has been made by myself to the Kavar rules, I suggest everyone read over that thread in general. Remember, we all have our own feelings, it's up to us to keep them in check.

This is all well and fine, however this still utterly fails to address the point I raised. A little bit of consistency would be huge.

[El Sitherino]

Jae,

 

Apparently my response has been snipped. Interestingly this just further exemplifies my concerns regarding the double standard. I'm just posting to let you know that I was not ignoring your comments and did try to reply in good faith.

 

This is all well and fine, however this still utterly fails to address the point I raised. A little bit of consistency would be huge.

I deleted your post, as well I'm afraid an ever circumstancial world cannot fall in line as you wish it.

 

Posts may be removed at any moment as it is in the end at the discretion of our moderator staff. If your post simply does nothing but further disrespect, pointless argument, or otherwise removes from the quality of the forum itself then it will be remove or edited accordingly.

 

I apologize for any confusion that has been caused, however a quick review of our rules should answer an further questions.

 

Sincerely,

The cuddly-*******.

[Arcesious]

The thing about Lucasforums I like is that it's full of friendly people. But also a few less than great people... The thing I don't like is that it has gotten pretty strict lately... I know, I know... The PG-13 rule... Honestly, I'm getting tired of that rule, and the 'liveliness' of debates seems to have degenerated. The new features have been great, but I'm just getting a little... I dunno... Tired of this place. :/

[El Sitherino]

The thing about Lucasforums I like is that it's full of friendly people. But also a few less than great people... The thing I don't like is that it has gotten pretty strict lately... I know, I know... The PG-13 rule... Honestly, I'm getting tired of that rule, and the 'liveliness' of debates seems to have degenerated. The new features have been great, but I'm just getting a little... I dunno... Tired of this place. :/

 

What in the name of great Funky Phantom does that have to do with snipers, Kavar's, or Jae vs. Achilles: The Match that Rocked the Planet (Featuring Rocky Balboa and Ivan Drago as special guest commentators)?

[Achilles]

It was not moderated by me. In fact, I didn't even know about it until I checked this thread a couple minutes ago and saw the action. Just to clarify that.

Please take care as well. --Jae

No worries, Jae. I didn't think it was you

 

I deleted your post, as well I'm afraid an ever circumstancial world cannot fall in line as you wish it.

 

Posts may be removed at any moment as it is in the end at the discretion of our moderator staff. If your post simply does nothing but further disrespect, pointless argument, or otherwise removes from the quality of the forum itself then it will be remove or edited accordingly.

 

I apologize for any confusion that has been caused, however a quick review of our rules should answer an further questions.

 

Sincerely,

The cuddly-*******.

Indeed. So long as the rules are enforced consistently, I'm perfectly okay with them. It's when we start seeing (here I go again) double-standards that I have a problem.

 

But perhaps at some point we might actually get around to addressing my point rather than demonstrating what it looks like.

[jonathan7]

The thing about Lucasforums I like is that it's full of friendly people. But also a few less than great people...

 

You'll find that which ever forum you go on, and anywhere in life.

 

The thing I don't like is that it has gotten pretty strict lately... I know, I know... The PG-13 rule... Honestly, I'm getting tired of that rule,

 

Well, its here to stay, and rightly given this is a SW forums - So you'll have to like it and lump it - besides if posting age was to be upped, it would be to 16 or 18 - which would mean you weren't allowed to post

 

and the 'liveliness' of debates seems to have degenerated.

 

There was a time, when quite a few people thought Kavars, was going to split the community, and still think that Kavars, produces bad blood in our little KotOR world, as such I think most of us are quite releveaved for the current 'lull' in debates.

 

The new features have been great, but I'm just getting a little... I dunno... Tired of this place. :/

 

You are of course free to do whatever you want with regards where you go, I think sometimes a little time off can be helpful to refresh.

[Jae Onasi]

The thing about Lucasforums I like is that it's full of friendly people. But also a few less than great people... The thing I don't like is that it has gotten pretty strict lately... I know, I know... The PG-13 rule...

We haven't been any more strict on PG-13 content than we were before, but I have noticed you pushing the line more than you did a year ago.

 

Honestly, I'm getting tired of that rule, and the 'liveliness' of debates seems to have degenerated.

I'm sorry you're tired of the rule, but Aristotle and the other owners have worked very hard on LF's relationship with LucasArts, and we're not about to jeopardize that relationship so that you can exercise your new-found desire to use expletives or post mature content. The owner wants it PG-13, and I'm going to do my best as moderator to keep it the way he wants.

 

The new features have been great, but I'm just getting a little... I dunno... Tired of this place. :/

There are lots of places on the internet that are fun, this one included, but if it's not your kind of fun anymore, I can understand if you feel the need to move on.

[Arcesious]

I guess that's all understandable then... If I had taken the line of thought "What is/was it like in the eyes of the staff members?" I would probably have thought out whatever I was planning to post here better...

 

your new-found desire

 

Erm not so much... I never, on any forum, ever 'said' serious swear words. (As far as I remember.) At most, I'll use this key (between the quotes) "*" to say anything. I was however surprised to find out that certain unserious (IMHO) words I was using were considered expletives. Although after talking with J7 a bit I've agreed to decide not to use obcenities at all here (or anywhere else.)

 

However, I have seen a bit of a double standard with moderators being able to bend the rules... For example I'll quote El Sitherino:

 

Sincerely,

The cuddly-*******.

 

But after all this, I think I'm now in agreement with the all the rules you've made for this forum...

[Tommycat]

I've always found it ironic that using "adult" language shows a lack of maturity.

[El Sitherino]

However, I have seen a bit of a double standard with moderators being able to bend the rules... For example I'll quote El Sitherino:

 

 

 

But after all this, I think I'm now in agreement with the all the rules you've made for this forum...

 

Explain to me how there is a double standard? I haven't remove any language from peoples posts, nor has anyone enstated that curse words are off bounds. There's a censor for a reason, as well people are allowed to enter in personality into a post as long as there is point and reason to their post. If you disagree with my personality then tell me so, I'll refrain from making referencial humor and jokes in general.

 

I've always found it ironic that using "adult" language shows a lack of maturity.

 

That's cool, I've always found it ironic that people have a hard time differentiating between serious topics and serious posting. You can discuss a serious topic without having a serious attitude. Sometimes taking life less serious is a good thing.

 

I also enjoy that you simply quote my reference and don't quote my post which was well worded and detailed that if there is an issue with a deleted post there are places to take that, and there is a place to read where and why things may be done (the rules thread). Before attempting to demonize me, perhaps it would serve you to understand what type of person I am. I attempt to make the effort to know what type of person you are and I attempt to show you respect by providing you with the information you seek, how about showing me the same respect.

 

After all respect is a two-part system, it's like a dance, both parties need to show respect in order for a respectful discourse to take place. Here we treat eachother as civilized people capable of rational and logical thought. To say that someone must first show that is dysfunctional and incorrect, as well it goes against the very purpose of this place. Everyone that enters Kavar's is understanding that this is not Ahto, that's why serious topics have been transfered to their own dedicated forum, just like the Senate's creation so long ago.

[mimartin]

There was a time, when quite a few people thought Kavars, was going to split the community, and still think that Kavars, produces bad blood in our little KotOR world, as such I think most of us are quite releveaved for the current 'lull' in debates.

So the staff is relieved there is no discussion in a discussion forum? I guess that is one way to prevent disagreements.

If you disagree with my personality then tell me so, I'll refrain from making referencial humor and jokes in general.

Please don’t stop. I may not agree with you all the time, but I do enjoy how you keep things from getting too serious.

[Achilles]

After all respect is a two-part system, it's like a dance, both parties need to show respect in order for a respectful discourse to take place. Here we treat each other as civilized people capable of rational and logical thought. To say that someone must first show that is dysfunctional and incorrect

QFE/T

[El Sitherino]

I love you guys.

 

 

In a totally non-gay way. But if I were to, it'd be colorful and filled with disco-globes. ABBA would not be played, but experienced. As well, Meryl Streep will be kept 20 feet away at all times, except when we bring up Death Becomes Her.

[Tommycat]

That's cool, I've always found it ironic that people have a hard time differentiating between serious topics and serious posting. You can discuss a serious topic without having a serious attitude. Sometimes taking life less serious is a good thing.

Must be missing the actual irony part.

 

But yes I do agree that respect should be a two way street, however since you cannot control the other(well technically you can since you are a mod, but still....) the best option is to treat the other with respect first, until they show that they do not deserve the respect. Or more to the topic, just be nice. You don't have to respect someone to be nice.

[El Sitherino]

Must be missing the actual irony part.

 

But yes I do agree that respect should be a two way street, however since you cannot control the other(well technically you can since you are a mod, but still....) the best option is to treat the other with respect first, until they show that they do not deserve the respect. Or more to the topic, just be nice. You don't have to respect someone to be nice.

 

No, I just have a hard time not commenting on something. I like to poke around at standards. The way I see it, this section is basically for posting facts. Either your facts counter someones ideal or they don't, either way you should never have ill intent with your post. That's just my personal philosophy and I never try to take this place seriously. I prefer imagining that I'm just goofing around with some friends, hoping at the end everyone will be okay talking with one another peacefully with no irritation. Any judgement or anything taking place in a post, takes place in that post.

[jonathan7]

Erm not so much... I never, on any forum, ever 'said' serious swear words. (As far as I remember.) At most, I'll use this key (between the quotes) "*" to say anything. I was however surprised to find out that certain unserious (IMHO) words I was using were considered expletives. Although after talking with J7 a bit I've agreed to decide not to use obscenities at all here (or anywhere else.)

 

Any words I changed, would be because when working as PE technician, and teaching young people, they are words which would have brought disciplinary procedures against me had I used them. As such, that is why I didn't consider them appropriate for a PG-13 procedure. I hope that clears that up

 

However, I have seen a bit of a double standard with moderators being able to bend the rules... For example I'll quote El Sitherino:

 

But after all this, I think I'm now in agreement with the all the rules you've made for this forum...

 

There is a slight difference between language being starred out, and that on display - though it depends on many different variations, context used, discussion etc. Some of my favourite comedy shows have lots of swearing in, but I can't post them in forum.

 

Explain to me how there is a double standard? I haven't remove any language from peoples posts, nor has anyone enstated that curse words are off bounds. There's a censor for a reason, as well people are allowed to enter in personality into a post as long as there is point and reason to their post. If you disagree with my personality then tell me so, I'll refrain from making referencial humor and jokes in general.

 

That's cool, I've always found it ironic that people have a hard time differentiating between serious topics and serious posting. You can discuss a serious topic without having a serious attitude. Sometimes taking life less serious is a good thing.

 

I also enjoy that you simply quote my reference and don't quote my post which was well worded and detailed that if there is an issue with a deleted post there are places to take that, and there is a place to read where and why things may be done (the rules thread). Before attempting to demonize me, perhaps it would serve you to understand what type of person I am. I attempt to make the effort to know what type of person you are and I attempt to show you respect by providing you with the information you seek, how about showing me the same respect.

 

After all respect is a two-part system, it's like a dance, both parties need to show respect in order for a respectful discourse to take place. Here we treat eachother as civilized people capable of rational and logical thought. To say that someone must first show that is dysfunctional and incorrect, as well it goes against the very purpose of this place. Everyone that enters Kavar's is understanding that this is not Ahto, that's why serious topics have been transfered to their own dedicated forum, just like the Senate's creation so long ago.

 

Good post Sithy...

 

So the staff is relieved there is no discussion in a discussion forum? I guess that is one way to prevent disagreements. Please don’t stop. I may not agree with you all the time, but I do enjoy how you keep things from getting too serious.

 

That's not what I mean and you know it

 

I do think discussion such as this are helpful, as I think it helps us all understand where we are coming from, and hopefully to lessen 'incidents' in the future. Thanks for the discussion y'all.

[Jae Onasi]

Reminder to everyone since the flaming has been getting out of hand lately--keep it toned down. If you want to say something nasty, fine, just don't hit the 'post reply' button when you do so.