Plot doesnt make sense

[Ztalker]

Agreed, the quality isn't as good as the old movies. But maybe the series will be more like the old trilogy. Since it's not about Jedi (they will only have cameo's) I have good hopes.

But again, I agree. Star Wars is at its best when George isn't directing. And he won't be directing the seriesu

 

And I agree on the plot twists. The movie and EU material (Kotor etc) were stronger and more logical.

[Zwier Zak]

Anyway, I pretty much agree one hundred percent with Shem here. However, here is my reservation about the story: the dark side ending. Yes, I know it isn't canon, but isn't Darth Vader being killed while still allied with the Sith and the dark side impossible since prophecy holds his future set in stone? He is destined to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force and is the only one who is able to do so, since it is stated in the prophecy of the Chosen One, so is it not impossible for Darth Vader to be killed if you think about it? He has to be redeemed and fulfill the prophecy first, and then he can die. I know it sounds cheap as hell, but really, this man with such a destiny cannot possibly die any other way. If that were not the case, the Sith would have never been defeated and the Force would have been doomed to remain unbalanced for all eternity.

 

Yeah but you could just as well say he can't die becouse you know he lives to star in the movies

[Sir Vougalot]

Yes, but you're missing the point.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Love story? Starkiller and Juno talk for like 5 seconds in these cutsenes. I've taken baths deeper than their relationship and I saw moore love between a toaster and a coffee pot.

 

I'm with you here. The love sub-plot feels forced. It's like sex scene on movies that are totally uncalled for. They're simply there because every movie of the kind has to have one.

[Sir Vougalot]

Well, the romantic tension is a lot more pronounced in the novel. Unfortunately, it was not possible to explore all of this given the game's length and how the story is designed, so they were sort of forced to abbreviate it.

[GeneralPloKoon]

They could of just made the game longer as it was a little too short....

[SW01]

Well, the romantic tension is a lot more pronounced in the novel. Unfortunately, it was not possible to explore all of this given the game's length and how the story is designed, so they were sort of forced to abbreviate it.

 

'Abbreviated' is a fair term for the entire game. It did seem a little rushed - this is set over, what, a year? Yet it is only a handful of misions. I can understand why some plot points may seem a little odd when it is so compressed. I still think the developer should have allowed us to play through the second search for Kota, though - it may have improved the sense of Starkiller's distancing himself from the Empire and embracing the Jedi.

[Shem]

No becouse we are not talking about people. We are talking about a product.

I was giving you a for instance in hopes you could relate to what I was trying to tell you. Obviously you're not ready to understand yet and I can't make you see it. Most unfortunate.

 

A product for with I paid with my money. A game forum is a place where people say what they like or dislike about a surtain game. If you don't know that than you should never run a website about a game (no ofence).

Well, just remember there's a good reason why I run a site like that and you don't. It's just too bad you can't see it.

 

When I first saw TOT I was so impresed with the characters in these movies. Vader was one of the best bad guys in movie history, the Emperor was just EVIL. Now what GL and LA are doing to these heroes is just wrong.

That's because you misconstrued who Vader was intended to be. Just like how people misconstrued how the Force works. I to this day can't understand how people couldn't pick up that some people were stronger in the Force than others when I thought it was crystal clear. I'm talking about the Midi-Chlorian issue. In the OT, it was stated that Luke was their hope in defeating the Sith and it was talked about how strong he was in the Force. Basically it was clear that others had the ability to do it better than others, but for some reason people didn't understand that there has to be a biological explanation on how the Force worked in the first place based on things established in the OT.

 

First Vader trains some kid who he knows will become stronger than him. Why? To defeat the Emperor? To use him to destroy the Emperors foes? None of these makes much sence.

It makes perfect sense. Vader can't do it by himself, so he needs help. Reason being was the incident at Mustafar.

 

If he would use starkiller to kill his master he would just trade one strong enemy for an even stronger enemy. I would not suspect him to be that stupid.

Who says that Vader was training Starkiller to be his enemy? It was never implied to be that way.

 

If he whanted to find the emperors foes why send him on those jedi killing quests?

Did you ever think that those Jedi were enemies to Vader? I could go more into that, but I'm afraid you wouldn't understand since it wasn't clear to you when you played the game in the first place.

 

Anny jelly with a brain would send him to form the alliance before killing the jedi. Why? The risk of his allies finding out about his past would be much smaller.

I mentioned this earlier in this thread, but didn't it occur to you that wasn't the plan from the start, but Vader was caught red-handed with an apprentice and instead of killing Starkiller, the Emperor saw an opportunity or opportunities in his favor that match the personality established by him in the movies. Again, I've explained this already in this thread.

 

The two sith just look like real amateurs in this game. First they train a kid who could become stronger than them and eventualy kill them and then they send him on a job anny good spy could do.

You have to understand something. If the Sith order is to survive and defeat Jedi, they have to find very strong Force users. If a master makes sure their apprentice isn't stronger than they are and the cycle continues, then each generation you have a weaker and weaker apprentice and eventually the Sith Order is so weak, they don't have a chance to defeat Jedi. Finding the potentially strongest apprentice is key to their survival.

 

Why would master Kota help Starkiller?

Sorry to sound rude, but you were not paying attention to the dialogue in the game. You couldn't have asked this question logically if you had. My advice is to watch the light side ending again and really pay attention to the dialogue. The key part was when Juno asked why Kota helped them and listen to Kota's response. It make sense and you decided to not pay attention to it.

 

Seriously, before making arguments you want to sound valid, you need to do your homework which you failed to do big time. Now we wait until you acknowledge the dialogue I want you to hear that you failed to listen to and nitpick that because you have already decided that you're not going to like anything about this game's storyline.

 

Plot twists? Where? When? It was pretty much clear from the start that Vader would betrey him.

Weak, weak, weak argument. This is just your personal opinion and personally (no offense, but I don't believe you, you're just saying it to try to discredit the plot again) I know that isn't true because many people never saw that happen. I didn't see it happen and I have had family and friends who were shocked by Vader's betrayal who saw the game. One of my friends came over and I introduced him the game and showed him all the movies as it tells a good part of the story and he almost fell out of his seat when he saw Vader stick a lightsaber through Starkiller's torso. I've seen too much first hand experiences that I know that you're just reaching for arguments.

 

Love story? Starkiller and Juno talk for like 5 seconds in these cutsenes. I've taken baths deeper than their relationship and I saw moore love between a toaster and a coffee pot.

I'm guessing you didn't play the Wii version of the game. There was more interaction between them.

 

Besides, that shouldn't have mattered. It was clear throughout the game they were developing feelings for each other. So when Juno hear Starkiller's response that she probably won't see him again, she knew that this was her last chance to express her love for him. If he did say he would be back, she wouldn't have even made a move.

 

BTW, I suggest you get some experience in the love department and you will see how real that love story was as it was realistic. Also keep in mind that the love story was a side issue and not a main focus of the plot and that was handled fine. You're just nitpicking again.

 

Don't get this the wrong way but George... he just lost it at some point.

 

All of his productions since TPM were down hill for me. And the actor? Yeah If I had a chance to play in a live action tv series with will bring big profit and popularity I'd go for it too. There are millions of actors interested in being a part of it... but that does not make it good.

Well, that's your opinion. Others around here feel differently. Like I said earlier, I don't think there is a place for you around this area as you don't fit in here. There's nothing wrong with that as there are plenty of places I don't fit in. That's why I don't go there because my opinions can or will cause trouble.

 

It's just unfortunate because you seem to be on this mission to make people see things your way and it's not going to happen? So what your reason to continue to come here and rip apart this game that we all love here and that is the reason why we're here?

[Zwier Zak]

Who says that Vader was training Starkiller to be his enemy? It was never implied to be that way.

 

The Sith always betray one another. That is the way of dark side. It's pretty much clear that once the emperor is dead Starkiller would be a threat to his master. Pay attention to the dialogue.

 

Did you ever think that those Jedi were enemies to Vader? I could go more into that, but I'm afraid you wouldn't understand since it wasn't clear to you when you played the game in the first place.

 

Enemies he could easily kill without Starkiller. And old man and an outcast he said? Pay attention to the dialogue.

 

Sorry to sound rude, but you were not paying attention to the dialogue in the game. You couldn't have asked this question logically if you had. My advice is to watch the light side ending again and really pay attention to the dialogue. The key part was when Juno asked why Kota helped them and listen to Kota's response. It make sense and you decided to not pay attention to it.

 

No harm done. So he sensed he's hot for Juno. So what? If a guy tries to kill you and then you "think" that he’s not all that bad you risk your life and the life of your allies to help him?

Yeah cool storytelling.

 

Weak, weak, weak argument. This is just your personal opinion and personally (no offense, but I don't believe you, you're just saying it to try to discredit the plot again) I know that isn't true because many people never saw that happen. I didn't see it happen and I have had family and friends who were shocked by Vader's betrayal who saw the game. One of my friends came over and I introduced him the game and showed him all the movies as it tells a good part of the story and he almost fell out of his seat when he saw Vader stick a lightsaber through Starkiller's torso. I've seen too much first hand experiences that I know that you're just reaching for arguments.

Dude did you even watch the trailers? Besides if Starkiller would have lived the original trilogy would never take place. A 5 year old could guess that. No offence intended.

 

Well, that's your opinion. Others around here feel differently. Like I said earlier, I don't think there is a place for you around this area as you don't fit in here. There's nothing wrong with that as there are plenty of places I don't fit in. That's why I don't go there because my opinions can or will cause trouble.

 

It's just unfortunate because you seem to be on this mission to make people see things your way and it's not going to happen? So what your reason to continue to come here and rip apart this game that we all love here and that is the reason why we're here?

Oh right so now you know better where I fit? THAT IS A CLASSIC!! From what I can see there are a few users who agree with me.

[Shem]

The Sith always betray one another. That is the way of dark side. It's pretty much clear that once the emperor is dead Starkiller would be a threat to his master. Pay attention to the dialogue.

Pay attention to the dialogue? I should ask you that. In fact, I did and you're TRYING use the same comeback, but it doesn't make sense in the same way my original argument. This is getting funnier all the time.

 

Since you brought it up, Starkiller wasn't aware of Sith betraying one another. Notice his loyalty was strong when confronted about it by Shaak Ti. That's why she called him, "Poor boy." I pay attention to the dialogue, unlike you since I have already caught you on several occasions which you didn't even make acknowledgments about it. Instead of either owning up to your mistake or show where you really knew the game, you try to make lame attempts to try to nail me. If you're going to try to get me, you're going to have to really try because I don't give you much to work with and the reason why that is is because I really know the game. I've beaten it countless times on both the Xbox 360 and on the Wii.

 

Enemies he could easily kill without Starkiller. And old man and an outcast he said? Pay attention to the dialogue.

Again, trying to use the same tactic and it failed. This is laughable. If you're going to use this tactic on me again, at least have it make sense for crying out loud.

 

There are lots of points I can use against your weak argument. So here is one.

 

"Your training is nearly complete. It's time for you to face your first true test."

 

Starkiller hunting and destroying Jedi was done to help complete his training. Didn't "you" pay attention? Again, I've already stated earlier in this thread on why that was. Paying attention again to me? Nice try pal... nice try!

 

So he sensed he's hot for Juno. So what? If a guy tries to kill you and then you "think" that he’s not all that bad you risk your life and the life of your allies to help him?

Yeah cool storytelling.

Did you even play the same game I did? It sounds like you didn't even realize that Starkiller was on the path to redemption and she saw it. Starkiller saved her from death and made slow changes to change his life and she witnessed that. She also knew that was a difficult thing since all he had known was the dark side. She was impressed with his growth and his growing feelings for her as it lead for her to grow her feelings back for him. It's good story telling and it was done well enough to make it a side issue where that wasn't the mean focus of the story. Perfectly done.

 

Now, if you can do better, why don't you go out there and write stories and show the world you can do a better job because until you can prove you can do better, the tactics you're using in your arguments are very weak.

 

Dude did you even watch the trailers? Besides if Starkiller would have lived the original trilogy would never take place.

Ya think?

 

A 5 year old could guess that. No offence intended.

So the story is pointless because Starkiller living would screw up the original trilogy? So now the story is pointless in the first place from your point of view because of that very fact? Why did you even play the game in the first place then? You should have figured that out before you went out and bought a copy. Talk about not thinking things through and then you freak out after you played it saying it was soooo predictable. Again, why did you even bother playing this game? Sorry, but that is just flaky.

 

Oh right so now you know better where I fit? THAT IS A CLASSIC!! From what I can see there are a few users who agree with me.

I meant no offense by it, but you still couldn't take it the right way. That's why I included that there are places I don't fit. I don't go to forums of games I dislike there to mock a game. So I'm done trying to sound nice when you don't get that I'm trying to. It's stupid because it's being a troll, but it seems to me that you live for doing that kind of crap or you wouldn't be here. Pretty simple logic if you ask me. Don't feel bad as you're not alone trying tactics like that. Some people love to be the negative guy. You just happen to be one of them.

 

The only reason you're here is to bash the game and when you make your comeback, you'll bash it again. Unbelievable.

[Zwier Zak]

You are wrong in so many places it's not even funny any more. I can see that no argument will ever penetrate the mind of a fan boy. If you'd actually READ my posts you’d know that you caught me on nothing but getting involved in a hopeless conversation.

[Shem]

You are wrong in so many places it's not even funny any more. I can see that no argument will ever penetrate the mind of a fan boy. If you'd actually READ my posts you’d know that you caught me on nothing but getting involved in a hopeless conversation.

Caught you on nothing? Are you for real?

 

Here is an example of someone who wasn't paying attention where I caught one of your argument flaws.

 

After Starkiller's death and the formation of the Rebellion on Kashyyyk:

 

Juno: You knew who he was didn't you?

Kota: I suspected, yes.

Juno: [THE QUESTION YOU NEEDED TO PAY ATTENTION TO] Then why did you help us? After all the things we've done?

Kota: [THE ANSWER YOU NEEDED TO LISTEN TO] When he came to me in the bar - among all his dark thoughts I glimpse one bright spot; one beautiful thing he held on to even at the end.

Juno: What?

Kota: You.

 

You go on to say this as a point of something wrong with the plot:

 

"Why would master Kota help Starkiller?"

 

It was addressed and yet you decided to try to use that as a point in your campaign to bring down the game proving you didn't pay attention to the dialogue. On top of that, I asked you to listen to this point at the end of the game to SHOW what you missed and you failed to do so; instead you argued back.

[Zwier Zak]

Caught you on nothing? Are you for real?

 

Here is an example of someone who wasn't paying attention where I caught one of your argument flaws.

 

After Starkiller's death and the formation of the Rebellion on Kashyyyk:

 

Juno: You knew who he was didn't you?

Kota: I suspected, yes.

Juno: [THE QUESTION YOU NEEDED TO PAY ATTENTION TO] Then why did you help us? After all the things we've done?

Kota: [THE ANSWER YOU NEEDED TO LISTEN TO] When he came to me in the bar - among all his dark thoughts I glimpse one bright spot; one beautiful thing he held on to even at the end.

Juno: What?

Kota: You.

 

You go on to say this as a point of something wrong with the plot:

 

"Why would master Kota help Starkiller?"

 

It was addressed and yet you decided to try to use that as a point in your campaign to bring down the game proving you didn't pay attention to the dialogue. On top of that, I asked you to listen to this point at the end of the game to SHOW what you missed and you failed to do so; instead you argued back.

 

If you'd actually read my posts you'd know that I never denied this dialogue. I said that if "the one bright spot" is enough to risk the fate of the galaxy than Kota is a bad leader.

 

No harm done. So he sensed he's hot for Juno. So what? If a guy tries to kill you and then you "think" that he’s not all that bad you risk your life and the life of your allies to help him?

Yeah cool storytelling.

 

Even though I caught YOU on not paying attention you’re still going to bash me although you have no good arguments except your own twisted logic.

[Shem]

If you'd actually read my posts you'd know that I never denied this dialogue. I said that if "the one bright spot" is enough to risk the fate of the galaxy than Kota is a bad leader.

Oh, no you didn't. All you said was: "Why would master Kota help Starkiller?"

 

Besides, even if you did, you're basing it on your own opinion as if it was fact. Besides, Kota became a drunk with nothing to live for while Starkiller came to him for information on how to bring down the Empire and shortly afterward Stormtroopers came to get him. Logically following Starkiller is an easy decision.

 

It was Luke who so that "one bright spot" in Vader and that is what he used to redeem his father to help him bring balance to the Force. Basically it's not a stretch. You're just reaching for reasons to bash the game.

 

Even though I caught YOU on not paying attention you’re still going to bash me

You have not unless for some reason I became you and you became me.

 

although you have no good arguments except your own twisted logic.

Nice insult. Is that the best you can do?

[Zwier Zak]

Oh, no you didn't. All you said was: "Why would master Kota help Starkiller?"

 

Besides, even if you did, you're basing it on your own opinion as if it was fact. Besides, Kota became a drunk with nothing to live for while Starkiller came to him for information on how to bring down the Empire and shortly afterward Stormtroopers came to get him. Logically following Starkiller is an easy decision.

 

It was Luke who so that "one bright spot" in Vader and that is what he used to redeem his father to help him bring balance to the Force. Basically it's not a stretch. You're just reaching for reasons to bash the game.

 

You have not unless for some reason I became you and you became me.

 

Nice insult. Is that the best you can do?

 

No insult intended mate.

 

If the main reason is what we heard in the 5 second dialogue at the end then than I rest my case about how silly the plot is.

 

I can see this is going no where. Let's just agree to disagree and be on our merry way?

[gallandro]

Maybe I missed something here. I was under the impression that the Emperor knew about the apprentice from the day Vader discovered him on Kashyyyk. The apprentice's entire life was a lie.

 

In that situation, Vader wouldn't have used him to stop the Emperor because the Emperor knew of his existence from day one.

 

Vader knew that one day he would betray the Emperor, but he knew from the beginning that it wouldn't be with the Apprentice (hence the "Not with you" comment).

[Shem]

I can see this is going no where. Let's just agree to disagree and be on our merry way?

I pretty much implied that this is what we're in when I stated you won't change your mind and I'm not trying to do it. Having your own opinion about things is fine. It's when you spout off on things as fact when you didn't do your homework is when it becomes a problem. The reason for that is because for those who aren't sure about what to think about the game's plot have the facts right in front of them so they can make a informed decision. Remember this thread was created by someone who didn't quite understand the plot of the game and is obviously looking for answers.

 

Another thing to work on is making vague statements assuming we can read your mind that you meant more than that.

 

An example of this would be when you said this:

 

"Why would master Kota help Starkiller?"

 

...and later say this:

 

If you'd actually read my posts you'd know that I never denied this dialogue. I said that if "the one bright spot" is enough to risk the fate of the galaxy than Kota is a bad leader.

 

There are two things that you either:

 

1. Didn't pay attention to the dialogue of the game which I already emphasized earlier in the thread.

 

2. You meant more to your original statement, but didn't clarify it and assumed we could read your mind.

 

It's very important to make sure that you communicate clearly on what you're thinking.

 

 

 

Maybe I missed something here. I was under the impression that the Emperor knew about the apprentice from the day Vader discovered him on Kashyyyk. The apprentice's entire life was a lie.

I can see that people may think that could be the case, but then why did Vader kill all of the Imperials who were witnesses to Starkiller's existence when Vader made the choice to make use out of the boy if he's going to tell his master about him? It would seem that Vader killed them because he wanted Starkiller to be a secret which was obviously exposed to the Emperor at a later time.

 

 

Vader knew that one day he would betray the Emperor, but he knew from the beginning that it wouldn't be with the Apprentice (hence the "Not with you" comment).

This why I think Vader changed his mind about the boy. He did have ambitions to overthrow the Emperor when he said, "Not with you", but realized that there was too much good in the boy to safely keep him as his apprentice based on the feelings he developed for his allies he worked with in the Rebellion which Vader called him on.

 

Read my original post about the whole thing when this thread began to get a better idea of what I believed happened which is all based on clues given in the game. I believe I have a pretty good explanation to why the Emperor chose to keep Starkiller alive when he found out about him and what future plans the Emperor may have had with him.

[Wepopu]

Remember this thread was created by someone who didn't quite understand the plot of the game and is obviously looking for answers.

.

 

I understand the plot it is just it seems a bit confusing why Lord Vader would not use starkiller to overthrow the Emperor when they could do it together. Vader needs to overthrow his master at some point and he isnt getting any younger or stronger so it would only make perfect sense that he would use starkiller to do what every true sith needs to do in their short life. The "not with" comment well Vader is middle age and stuck in a suit so it only makes sense that he would use starkiller to take control and than use "whoever" it was in the "not with you" comment to fight starkiller.

[Shem]

I understand the plot

What you mean is you don't understand the motives of the characters in the plot. That is what I've been trying to clear up for you.

 

 

it is just it seems a bit confusing why Lord Vader would not use starkiller to overthrow the Emperor when they could do it together. Vader needs to overthrow his master at some point and he isnt getting any younger or stronger so it would only make perfect sense that he would use starkiller to do what every true sith needs to do in their short life. The "not with" comment well Vader is middle age and stuck in a suit so it only makes sense that he would use starkiller to take control and than use "whoever" it was in the "not with you" comment to fight starkiller.

That's where you need to understand the hold Sidious has on Vader because of Vader's fear. Ever been in a situation in your life sometime where you wanted to do something, but you couldn't go through with it because of the fear of failing? Well, if Vader failed, he's dead.

 

It also could be that Vader underestimated Starkiller. Notice that he thought he would beat his former apprentice, but ended getting his butt kicked. Vader seemed to talk a bigger game than he really played.

 

The point is Vader messed that one up because of the fear of his master. Just remember every time you have had opportunities in your life where you have messed up and relate it to that experience in the game. I'm betting after the outcome of Starkiller's death that he wished he played that one out different. That is where Luke comes in. He was trying to recruit Luke to join him and do together what he originally planned with Starkiller.

 

It is interesting how the situations with Luke and Starkiller sort of mirror each other in terms of the intentions both Vader and Sidious had with each of them.

[Wepopu]

i am assuming that the battle of Kashyyyk at the start of the game is the same as the one in the novel "Rise of Darth Vader" which in the book at the end of the battle Vader declares that he will find an apprentice to help him over throw his master and that he will rule the Empire. Also this novel states that Vader would have already killed the Emperor if he had not been injuryed at the hands of his old master. This information would lead one to believe that Vader's true intentions were to use starkiller to aid him in overthrowing his current master seeing how much he talked about this very thing in the waning pages of the book. It was the force that took Vader to Kashyyk and led him the the boy and seemly right after the battle he is talking about using a apprentice to become the emperor.

 

What becomes increasingly confusing is that the Emperor knew about the apprentice and yet Vader did not take control when he appeared to have the chance. Also given the care that the emperor put into becoming emporer it seems a little out of character that he would allow the rebellion to be birth seeing how the was no way the clone wars plan could have failed or better it did not fail. Seeing how the Emperor knew about starkiller then why did he have Vader "kill" starkiller in front of him. Why risk the perfect deal. Starkiller is the perfect sith tool. He is a dark sider who is Loyal! He would never cross his master Vader. He would do whatever it is that his master asked of him. So why then would Vader and the emperor "kill" starkiller giving him reason to turn on them, reason to bring down the Empire, reason to help those who had hunted down before? Well it was to better draw out the foes of the Empire is the answer but starkiller would have done that already without being "killed" but now he has doubts that need not be there in the first place. thus needlessly crossing an ally Vader sealed his own defeat. Which is just plain silly when you think about it. Who are they trying to fool? only three people knew anything about what was going on; four if you count juno but she just does whatever starkiller does. What was all the stagecraft for? It seems that doing all this extra stuff they turned an ally into an foe would become the thing that destroy them and all for nothing too.

 

If Vader thought starkiller wasnt strong enough to beat the emperor it still does not make sense as to why he would not use him to take power. Even if Vader thought starkiller could not beat the emperor than why not have him fight the emporer anyway then as the emperor is battling out with starkiller Vader could stab his master in the back as he did starkiller. After all isnt this all about misleading, and distracting foes so you can stab them when they wont see it coming. This is a trade sith mark stabbing in the back as your foes fight an distraction. Vader knew that starkiller was strong and this is proven by starkiller beating the crap out of the two sith lords so why is it that vader feels that starkiller is not good enough to be an distraction. Also i would like to point out that if Vader told the emperor about starkiller and came up with this plan to use the boy to draw out the foes of the empire then how do we not know it was a clever ploy to fool the emperor himself. Sith are all about lying and power. It would make sense to lure the emperor into a false sense of safety then strike him down with starkiller at his side.

 

Another reason it does not sit right that Vader didnt strike down the emperor is when have any sith apprenticeship lasted over 20 years or any sith lord been so loyal to his master? Vader knew long before this that he was just a tool a pawn and wanted to end this so why would be pass up at least the chance to stop being the emperor's slave? Any good sith would have already murdered or tried it twice already to take power from their masters. Darth Malak ordered his ship to fire on his master's ship so why did not Vader try something similar seeing how he could fight his way to the top with a lightsaber. These two sith lords are very much like the sith before them. One would think that Vader would welcome death seeing how he has nothing to live for. So could risk death when he has nothing to live for a chance to take an Empire when he could have most likely do it.

 

Plot just doesnt sit well given all that we know about Vader and the sith.

[Shem]

i am assuming that the battle of Kashyyyk at the start of the game is the same as the one in the novel "Rise of Darth Vader" which in the book at the end of the battle Vader declares that he will find an apprentice to help him over throw his master and that he will rule the Empire. Also this novel states that Vader would have already killed the Emperor if he had not been injuryed at the hands of his old master. This information would lead one to believe that Vader's true intentions were to use starkiller to aid him in overthrowing his current master seeing how much he talked about this very thing in the waning pages of the book. It was the force that took Vader to Kashyyk and led him the the boy and seemly right after the battle he is talking about using a apprentice to become the emperor.

I've never read that book, but it seems to me that choosing Kashyyyk to start off the game was not a random thing. There was a purpose to it. Thanks for sharing that.

 

What becomes increasingly confusing is that the Emperor knew about the apprentice and yet Vader did not take control when he appeared to have the chance.

What confuses is that you're not listening to me, or at least it seems because it sounds like I'm listening to a broken record.

 

Whether or not the Emperor knew of Starkiller before walking in on them and Vader sticking a lightsaber through Starkiller's chest is unknown. What was CLEAR is that Vader acted out of fear. That controlled him more than his ambition. Ask yourself this: How many times have you made a different choice in your life out of fear? You have to keep in mind that Vader made this choice to preserve his life.

 

 

Also given the care that the emperor put into becoming emporer it seems a little out of character that he would allow the rebellion to be birth

There is a lot you missed then.

 

1. The Emperor's intention was to stop the Rebellion before it got started to avoid a war.

 

2. This is not out of character for Sidious. I STRONGLY suggest you watch Return of the Jedi again. While doing so, listen to every bit of dialogue Sidious speaks and ask yourself why would he do that?

 

The thing is the Emperor likes to take chances, or so it seems. Sidious deliberately allow the Rebellion to get a hold of the secret Death Star plans that revealed the secret location of the second Death Star on the Endor Moon. The reason for that is because he wanted to draw his enemies out and bring them all together and crush them all at once.

 

You have to realize that finding the Rebels was useless because they hid themselves well. Didn't you ever notice that it was always an issue about finding the Rebels in the whole Original Trilogy; from Tarkin trying to pry it out of Leia leading to the destruction of Alderaan a probe droid finding a secret base on Hoth?

 

the problem is he needed to get them all out in the open at once to end the war once and far all. So he took a risk in order to do that while trying to be very prepared for their arrival.

 

It's like how he had Starkiller gather them and bring them all together and when they're together, arrest them and execute them. Notice Palpatine made it clear it was going to be a public and painful execution? He was going to make an example of them to prevent any resistance in the future. Obviously it backfired.

 

 

Seeing how the Emperor knew about starkiller then why did he have Vader "kill" starkiller in front of him. Why risk the perfect deal. Starkiller is the perfect sith tool. He is a dark sider who is Loyal! He would never cross his master Vader. He would do whatever it is that his master asked of him. So why then would Vader and the emperor "kill" starkiller giving him reason to turn on them, reason to bring down the Empire, reason to help those who had hunted down before?

This is when I feel it is useless to even talk to you. I have already explained this. I'm going to copy and paste what I have said before below this and if you don't get it then you either refuse to read or you can't comprehend it. Let's just hope it's "you" refusing to read and if you're not going to, quit asking the same questions over and over again because you're becoming a broken record and this is the last time I try to explain it to you. I'm beginning to think you don't really want an explanation as you have already made up your mind it's not going to make sense and that you're really just venting and don't care about the real answers here.

 

Anyway, last chance. Here is your explanation to why Vader stuck a lightsaber through Starkiller's chest:

 

I’m betting that even though Vader told Starkiller that he was to leave no witnesses, somehow someone witness his existence and was not discovered by Starkiller, or he would have been killed on the spot. This witness reported to the Emperor, and from there the Emperor investigated who this mystery guy was. Through his spies, he discovers that it was a secret apprentice of Vader. The Emperor saw an opportunity with this and that is he could use this boy to replace Vader.

 

The Emperor probably figures out that this guy is loyal to Vader just like Maul was to him. So he needed a plan create a division between them so Starkiller’s loyalty to Vader would be shaken. Could you imagine the fear that went through Vader when the Emperor confronted him about his secret apprentice and the surprise that went through Vader’s mind that the Emperor said there could be some use for him to help the Empire?

 

That is when having Vader injure him would do the trick. When Starkiller woke up and realized he was still alive, he was mad at Vader for what he did to him. In the meantime, the Emperor needed his enemies identified and eliminated. Though I don’t think the Emperor intended to find all of his enemies, just enough to make use out of Starkiller to help create division between him and Vader so that he would have a chance to turn him to the Emperor’s side.

Please tell me you get it this time.

 

 

If Vader thought starkiller wasnt strong enough to beat the emperor it still does not make sense as to why he would not use him to take power. Even if Vader thought starkiller could not beat the emperor than why not have him fight the emporer anyway then as the emperor is battling out with starkiller Vader could stab his master in the back as he did starkiller.

You're talking as if this is what you would do without fearing the possible consequence. Now imagine you are really Vader and you fear your master. Find someone in your life you fear greatly or did as a child and imagine a plot against this person you hated failed.

 

Even if Vader thought starkiller could not beat the emperor than why not have him fight the emporer anyway then as the emperor is battling out with starkiller Vader could stab his master in the back as he did starkiller.

You make it sound sooooo easy. Do you really think the Emperor is going to lose track of Vader? He's going to know he betrayed him and will be aware of him. Sidious was not afraid to take on four Jedi at once. Remember he dispatched three of those Jedi pretty quickly and it started when he used fear against them. Notice the look in their eyes when he charged them in the air while spinning. Sidious created enough fear to get them to flinch, thus killing two of those masters after being caught off-guard.

 

People to this day didn't see the fear he created because they didn't put themselves in their position. If you had just found out that you thought someone who was ordinary was really a Sith and all of a sudden he pulls out his lightsaber and attacks you, don't you think a little fear it going to run through you because now you're going to fight for your life. Nobody fights for their life without feeling fear.

 

The point is Vader knew better than that and you need to give Vader credit in a way that he isn't as bone-headed as you're trying to make him out to be. Just because you sic your apprentice on him doesn't mean the Emperor is going to lose track of where you're at so he would be able to sneak a quick attack to stab him. You're taking credit away from Sidious. Sidious is much smarter than that.

 

 

Vader knew that starkiller was strong and this is proven by starkiller beating the crap out of the two sith lords so why is it that vader feels that starkiller is not good enough to be an distraction.

If Vader really knew how strong Starkiller was, he would have used him to kill Sidious. The problem was as I have already stated in this thread.

 

Vader obviously underestimated Starkiller's abilities. When Vader went to confront Starkiller, he said to him: "I've trained you well, but you still have much to learn."

 

Do you even realize what that means? Vader is saying, you're good boy, but I'm still better. So that means Vader underestimated Starkiller's abilities. I would guarantee that Vader realizes after Starkiller's death that he knows he messed up and he messed up pretty bad.

 

You do realize that people do mess up because they do misjudge people or situations, right? This is what makes this story real because real choices are made and mistakes are made too. Then Vader later seeks out Luke to use him in the same way he used Starkiller and if that opportunity had happened, Vader wouldn't have made that mistake twice.

 

If you don't get it after this, then you're not going to. The story is brilliant and it really exposes familiar character decisions that are really made by Vader and Sidious, especially Sidious. That was so in character and this is when you know that Lucas did help co-write this story. We all knew that he did help write the story and I see the evidences where he helped them out.

 

I think your problem is is that it didn't go the way you wanted it to go. There's a difference between what you want and what it is going to be and you need to figure that out.

[Zwier Zak]

There I was thinking you wanted to bash me. But now I see that you have a problem with everyone who sees the obvious plot holes.

[Zwier Zak]

 

"Why would master Kota help Starkiller?"

 

...and later say this:

 

If you'd actually read my posts you'd know that I never denied this dialogue. I said that if "the one bright spot" is enough to risk the fate of the galaxy than Kota is a bad leader.

 

There are two things that you either:

 

1. Didn't pay attention to the dialogue of the game which I already emphasized earlier in the thread.

 

2. You meant more to your original statement, but didn't clarify it and assumed we could read your mind.

 

It's very important to make sure that you communicate clearly on what you're thinking.

 

NO IT MEANS THAT THE ARGUMENT USED IN THE DIALOGUE IS JUST SILLY AND FOR A SECOND I THOUGHT THAT MABY YOU COULD FING A BETTER ONE. Sorry. Can't spell that any bigger than that.

[Astor]

C'mon guys... this clearly isn't going anywhere, and it's only increasing everyone's level of frustration.

 

Why don't we all just cool down for a while?

[Zwier Zak]

C'mon guys... this clearly isn't going anywhere, and it's only increasing everyone's level of frustration.

 

Why don't we all just cool down for a while?

 

You're right. Sorry if anyone is offended by our discussion witch got a bit out of hand. I made my points quite clear so consider this my last post in this thread.