Divisions of christianity and their differences

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

Some sects of Christianity believe Jesus did things at different times (like the 1914 prophecy from Jehovah's witness and the Mormons stuff).

i dont know what it looks like to anyone outside of it, but afaik JW and mormonism are a far, far way off from christianity.

 

just fyi

[Totenkopf]

...except for the fact that this thread is actually based off of a debate between vanir and myself in the other thread

 

Perhaps, but this thread is still about Christianity and its different sects, not monotheism in general.

[True_Avery]

i dont know what it looks like to anyone outside of it, but afaik JW and mormonism are a far, far way off from christianity.

 

just fyi

Nope, they are both denominations of Christianity. Although newer than most, they both categorize themselves under that, claim relation to Judaism/Christianity and so on, and worship Jesus Christ as their savior and one God.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latter_Day_Saint_movement

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

Their belief system diverges greatly from traditional Christian theology, which has caused several major Christian denominations to denounce the group as either a cult or sect.[17]

^thats where i stand.

point of view, i suppose.

 

personally, its alarming to be put in the same boat as them. because, i have heard some freaky as stuff.

[Jae Onasi]

Your version sounds a little servile.

The 14-century translation of Greek scripture goes like this,

 

And when ye were dead in your guilts and sins,

2 in which ye wandered sometime after the course of this world, after the prince of the power of this air, of the spirit that worketh now into the sons of unbelief;

 

3 in which also we all lived sometime [in whom we all lived sometime] in the desires of our flesh, doing the wills of the flesh and of the thoughts, and we were by kind the sons of wrath, as other men [as and others];

 

4 but God, that is rich in mercy, for his full much charity in which he loved us,

 

5 yea, when we were dead in sins, quickened us together in Christ, by whose grace ye be saved,

 

6 and again-raised together, and made together to sit in heavenly things in Christ Jesus;

 

7 that he should show in the worlds above coming the plenteous riches of his grace in goodness on [upon] us in Christ Jesus.

 

8 For by grace ye be saved by faith, and this not of you [and that not of you]; for it is the gift of God,

 

9 not of works, that no man have glory.

 

10 For we be the making of him, made of nought in Christ Jesus, in good works, which God hath ordained, that we go in those works [that God made ready before, that in them we go].

 

Which is a totally different context to that which you suggest.

 

I'm not sure how this creates a different context--Paul is stating that salvation is through God's grace via Christ's sacrifice, and not by any kinds of works that we do--we can't buy our way to heaven with good deeds.

 

However, we are encouraged to do good works for God's kingdom, and James stated 'faith without works is dead', which I translate loosely as 'put your money where your mouth is'. No one is required to do good works for salvation, true. However, good works are an outward sign of our faith. If we love someone, we want to do things for them that make them happy--not because we have to, but because we desire to. It's the same with good works--we don't have to do them, but it's one way to express our love and appreciation.

 

Nice Biblical quote! Are you a Christian Mrs. Onasi?

Absolutely yes.

[True_Avery]

^thats where i stand.

point of view, i suppose.

 

personally, its alarming to be put in the same boat as them. because, i have heard some freaky as stuff.

Cult and Sects are still technically denominations, and I'll remind every one that Christianity started as a cult itself.

 

Have you heard some freaky stuff, or do you know some freaky stuff? JW's are considered super fundamental on their beleifs in the bible and the Mormons are more of a sect working off of their idea of a new testament. Both follow the Bible to some extent, both worship Jesus and God, and so on. Besides differing interpretations, they're as valid as any other denomination and every group has their crazies and casuals.

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

Cult and Sects are still technically denominations, and I'll remind every one that Christianity started as a cult itself.

as i said, POV. afaik the early roman catholics saw protestants so perverting of beliefs as to have them tortured and killed. (something which i cant really get over. )

 

i think mormons are weird, but im not going to go kill or do anything to them.

 

Have you heard some freaky stuff, or do you know some freaky stuff?

ive heard freaky stuff from people who know freaky stuff.

 

[edit]

Heres and excerpt from an article on mormons:

What they will tell you:

 

Mormons are Christians. (Mormons want very much to be recognised as a normal Christian denomination.)

 

What they won't tell you:

 

They believe that God is just an exalted man.

 

They believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers.

 

They believe we can become gods ourselves.

 

They believe that Mormon women are to be pregnant for eternity populating their own planets.

 

Absolutely no archeological evidence for the Book of Mormon has been discovered (except for the part that was copied straight from the King James Bible).

 

Over 4000 changes have been made to the Book of Mormon since it was first published - a far cry from what Smith called "The most correct book on earth."

 

any christian can immediately see that those points are definitely not christian.

 

this is a very informative site on why these groups are different from christianity.

check out their faq

 

but this page was the most informative.

[EnderWiggin]

Perhaps, but this thread is still about Christianity and its different sects, not monotheism in general.

 

No disagreements here

 

^thats where i stand.

point of view, i suppose.

 

personally, its alarming to be put in the same boat as them. because, i have heard some freaky as stuff.

 

....Is your shift key broken? Serious discussion forum. :¬:

 

 

@Topic - I actually know a Mormon - he's very conservative and only has 1 wife. Dunno why anyone would call him un-Christian.

 

I feel almost sad that you are trying to categorize the outlandish Mormons with all Mormons. You do know that some Christians actually believe the World was created in 6 days, right? There are actually some here that believe that. You wouldn't want to be put in that group just as my friend would hate to be confused with a group who believes "Jesus and Satan are brothers."

 

Unless, of course, you actually do your research and come to find that Mormons believe that "everything was created by God" thus causing Jesus and the angel Lucifer to be "Spirit Brothers" or "Children of God" (where one is a 'fallen child of God') just like all of us are "Brothers and Sisters in Christ". My pastor says "Brothers and Sisters in Christ" most Sundays, hope that doesn't make me not Christian

 

I think most Christian sects believe this, to a certain degree, but if you place it in an ignorant context, as you have done, I guess it makes it much easier to discriminate against them... *shrug*

 

_EW_

[True_Avery]

[edit]

Heres and excerpt from an article on mormons:

 

this is a very informative site on why these groups are different from christianity.

check out their faq

 

but this page was the most informative.

I'm going to go ahead and point out that, in your search to find out about mormons... you went directly to the cult watch websites. That is a pretty far cry from actually researching them, as you've decided that your first interpretation of them is going to be the worst of them, which I do not think is fair.

 

An example:

 

Now, is that fair? Should I base my entire view on the -entirety- of Christianity on those words?

 

Your site is not informative. It is biased, discriminatory, and focusing entirely on the flaws of the belief system without taking in mind that what is supposed to be believed and what is can be entirely different.

 

As Ender said, there are Christians who believe the earth was created in a few days 6,000 years ago. Those that believe Hell exists, and that sinners will be sent there. People who believe in Satan, and that he was an angel of and so on and so forth.

 

any christian can immediately see that those points are definitely not christian.

What does this even mean? What, pray tell, is "christian" and what is not when there is no solid definition? Christianity, as a whole, is not a "religion" per say; it is a collection of religions under one name, all of which have different interpretations of the bible, Jesus, etc. To call yourself Christian is akin to calling yourself Human; humans come in many shapes, colors, and sizes and must be acknowledged to understand what the word implies. You cannot simply be Christian, as to be Christian you have to belong to one of the many Denominations.

 

Also, "any christian" includes Mormons and JWs, so your point is moot as they are defined as a Nontrinitarian Denomination (Which includes Jehovah's Witnesses, Latter Day Saints, Unitarians, Christadelphians, and the Oneness Pentecostal).

 

The only real definition of "Christian" we have is a belief that Jesus was the son of a one and only God, and that he was the savior, etc. Mormons and JW fit that description regardless of if you want to see that as a point of view or not. The fact is they believe it, and unless you have a better definition for me to work off of the statement stands that they are indeed Christian.

 

It was once considered Christian to stone people to death. Treat women like trash. A lot that is written in the Bible is tradition that has either gone out of style, or is now interpreted differently as to save from scrutiny. Many of the Nazis were also Christians in belief.

 

Now, I do not think you appreciate being put into those categories in the same way you see to hate being put into the same category as JW and Mormon's. So, instead of tainting your belief of the system with ignorant slander on random internet sites you should probably go out and meet some JWs and Mormons. Go to their forums and speak with them and ask them about their beliefs instead of outright assuming they are all terrible cultists.

 

As I said, Christianity was at one point a Cult. But, really, the definition of "Cult" is incredibly poor as, by definition, anything that does not follow orthodox Christian is a cult. Which, then you come to the problem of picking out what exactly the correct sect of Christianity -is-.

 

As well as these articles, you seemed to have gone directly to the "terrible cultists" part of the Wiki I linked, so I, again, recommend finding out more about Mormons and JWs than Cultwatch and information from a guy who knows a guy, as I doubt you or any other Christians here want me generalizing you all with your... flavorful fundamentalists.

 

If, however, you still want to push the terrible cult idea I'd be more than happy to re-post an old post of mine pointing out the origins of Christianity. That, or I can PM you if this is conversation is off-topic.

[Rev7]

Denominations are movements that differ on doctrinal issues, but hold to a common core of beliefs about God, Christ, and the Scriptures.

 

Sects agree with denominations, but they also often have some characteristics that place them on the fringe of Christianity.

 

Cults are connected to Christianity in that they employ Christian Scripture and appeal to Jesus, but they also differ from the 'traditional faith'. They many deny or reinterpret the Trinity, they may have novel views about Christ, or may reject parts of scripture and add new texts.

 

Mormonism is connected to Christianity in some sense, however that is not enough. Other religions claim some connections to Christianity such as Islam--Muslims believe in the second coming of Christ. The Baha'i also claim connection to Christianity. In the Mormon scriptures, The Pearl of Great Price we are told that the world was fashioned "by the Gods". Mormon theology teaches that Jesus is an incarnation of Elohim, conceived as the literal son of God; however, 'He' is not the unique incarnation, since we too can be incarnations of the Father. In Mormonism we are not saved by the atoning work of Christ but by the obidience to Mormon principals. Mormons have also placed three other texts alongside the Bible--The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants , and The Pearl of Great Price. The last two books in particular, the Mormon doctrines can be found.

 

Because of these differences from standard Christian teaching, Mormonism falls outside "Orthodox" Christianity.

[True_Avery]

Because of these differences from standard Christian teaching, Mormonism falls outside "Orthodox" Christianity.

While I agree to a point, I again have to ask what "orthodox" Christianity means, and what exactly "christian teachings" are as the many Denominations are at odds with each other in a number of ways.

 

And I'm not sure how Islam, Muslims, etc are Christians as they do not believe Jesus is the son of god, savior of sin, and so on and so forth. They are linked in the same way the Jewish faith is linked, but that does not make them Christian. Mormonism and JWs fit the only definition of Christianity I can find thus far, so I need a better definition to work off of to necessarily agree with you.

 

Denominations are movements that differ on doctrinal issues, but hold to a common core of beliefs about God, Christ, and the Scriptures.

They believe in one God, and identify that God as the "Christian" God. They believe in Christ as the son of god and the savior of sin, born of the virgin mary and so on. Their scripture includes the books you listed, but they also read and follow the bible.

 

So, how exactly are they not Christian if they follow what you've listed? Is it because they've added more? Wouldn't that make Catholicism not Christian for having a Pope? Or Protestantism for not?

 

They are Denominations as you said and Mormonism fits your definition of a Denomination. If doing something unorthodox didn't make you Christian, then Christianity as a whole has been a cult for 2,000 years now as the original Church is long gone to be replaced by new age beliefs and traditions of modern day society.

 

What makes them "unorthodox" would be they do not believe in the Holy Trinity. That the Holy Spirit, God, and Jesus were all the same person. If believing -that- is the requirement for being Christian, then I'll agree with you but so far I've met self proclaimed Christians who do not believe Jesus was God incarnate, but a son. Some people pray to Jesus, others to God, and some consider them the same and others do not.

[Rev7]

While I agree to a point, I again have to ask what "orthodox" Christianity means, and what exactly "christian teachings" are as the many Denominations are at odds with each other in a number of ways.

I define 'orthodox' Christianity as...I hate to say it like this, but I cannot think of any other words...but I would describe it as 'normal' or traditional Christianity--monotheistic, Belief in Jesus Christ, following the Bible, going to church ect...

 

The denominations are "at odds with each other" because they differ in certain beliefs and they think their denomination is correct, and the other denomination believes that theirs is correct.

 

And I'm not sure how Islam, Muslims, etc are Christians as they do not believe Jesus is the son of god, savior of sin, and so on and so forth. They are linked in the same way the Jewish faith is linked, but that does not make them Christian. Mormonism and JWs fit the only definition of Christianity I can find thus far, so I need a better definition to work off of to necessarily agree with you.

They all fall under the word (loosely) Christian--believing in Christ. The word has a connotative meaning and as far as I know can refer to two things. Belief in Christ (I say this very loosely) and it can refer to the world religion of Christianity. We most often connotate the word Christian to the world religion. Hopefully that helped because when I read over what I just said I don't feel that I am being very clear.

 

 

They believe in one God, and identify that God as the "Christian" God. They believe in Christ as the son of god and the savior of sin, born of the virgin mary and so on. Their scripture includes the books you listed, but they also read and follow the bible.

Mormanism could be considered neither monotheistic not, technically trinitarian. As I said In the Mormon scriptures, The Pearl of Great Price we are told that the world was fashioned "by the Gods". In his (Joesph Smith) famous King Folley sermon, Smith stated that God was once as we are and that we may become as He is--a God. Mormonism teaches that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all God, but it denies the historic Christian view on the Trinity. Mormon Scholar Robert Millet has written that the Trinity is comprised of "Three Beings". Mormonism is not trinitarian but tritheist.

[Trench]

 

Someone's new

 

_EW_

 

Of course I'm new. I only discovered this site last month.

 

 

About the trinity: People who study the Bible thoroughly know that when the Bible makes references to "Father, Son and Holy Spirit", it isn't referring to three people. Its referring to one person who is all those things.

For more info look up John James I, or The Walking Bible (my grandfather). He has a lot of good sermons that explain this stuff (and he should know, he goes through the bible a few times a year, and has a library full of study books- each of which he has red thoroughly).

[EnderWiggin]

They all fall under the word (loosely) Christian--believing in Christ. The word has a connotative meaning and as far as I know can refer to two things. Belief in Christ (I say this very loosely) and it can refer to the world religion of Christianity. We most often connotate the word Christian to the world religion. Hopefully that helped because when I read over what I just said I don't feel that I am being very clear.

 

No, not clear at all. Perhaps you could try again?

 

_EW_

[Q]

This is the universal definition of Christian belief:

 

Whoever wants to be saved should above all cling to the catholic faith.

 

Whoever does not guard it whole and inviolable will doubtless perish eternally.

 

Now this is the catholic faith: We worship one God in trinity and the Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine being.

 

For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Spirit is still another.

 

But the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty.

 

What the Father is, the Son is, and so is the Holy Spirit.

 

Uncreated is the Father; uncreated is the Son; uncreated is the Spirit.

 

The Father is infinite; the Son is infinite; the Holy Spirit is infinite.

 

Eternal is the Father; eternal is the Son; eternal is the Spirit: And yet there are not three eternal beings, but one who is eternal; as there are not three uncreated and unlimited beings, but one who is uncreated and unlimited.

 

Almighty is the Father; almighty is the Son; almighty is the Spirit: And yet there are not three almighty beings, but one who is almighty.

 

Thus the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God: And yet there are not three gods, but one God.

 

Thus the Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord: And yet there are not three lords, but one Lord.

 

As Christian truth compels us to acknowledge each distinct person as God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

 

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten; the Son was neither made nor created, but was alone begotten of the Father; the Spirit was neither made nor created, but is proceeding from the Father and the Son.

 

Thus there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three spirits.

 

And in this Trinity, no one is before or after, greater or less than the other; but all three persons are in themselves, coeternal and coequal; and so we must worship the Trinity in unity and the one God in three persons.

 

Whoever wants to be saved should think thus about the Trinity.

 

It is necessary for eternal salvation that one also faithfully believe that our Lord Jesus Christ became flesh.

 

For this is the true faith that we believe and confess: That our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God and man.

 

He is God, begotten before all worlds from the being of the Father, and he is man, born in the world from the being of his mother -- existing fully as God, and fully as man with a rational soul and a human body; equal to the Father in divinity, subordinate to the Father in humanity.

 

Although he is God and man, he is not divided, but is one Christ.

 

He is united because God has taken humanity into himself; he does not transform deity into humanity.

 

He is completely one in the unity of his person, without confusing his natures.

 

For as the rational soul and body are one person, so the one Christ is God and man.

 

He suffered death for our salvation. He descended into hell and rose again from the dead.

 

He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

 

He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

 

At his coming all people shall rise bodily to give an account of their own deeds.

 

Those who have done good will enter eternal life, those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

 

This is the catholic faith.

 

One cannot be saved without believing this firmly and faithfully.

Please note that the word "catholic" in the creed does not refer to Catholicism in the modern sense, as it was written about a thousand years before there were any separate Christian denominations at all.

 

This creed is the basis of Christian doctrine, and any doctrine that does not meet all of these requirements is not Christian.

 

 

That having been said, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that:

Jesus is acknowledged as God's "only begotten" Son. As such, he began his life in heaven. He is described as God's first creation and the "exact representation of God", but is believed to be a separate entity and not part of a Trinity.

They believe that Christ was created by God, not that He is God and part of the Holy Trinity. As a matter of fact, they do not believe in the Trinity at all. Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian.

 

To the casual observer, Mormons are a bit harder to differentiate from Christians, but:

They are three separate and distinct beings. Thus, the church's view of the Godhead breaks with Nicene Creed tradition.

Put simply, Mormons believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three separate beings, not three incarnations of the same being as defined in the Athanasian and Nicene Creeds. Mormons also have their own scripture that is unique to them, while the sole scripture used by all of the Christian denominations is the Bible, and nothing else. Therefore, the Mormons are not Christian.

 

Neither one of those sects meets the definition as spelled out in the Athanasian Creed.

[vanir]

James stated 'faith without works is dead'

 

Cheers, Jae for understanding. I think this point was most prudent to our quick back and forth.

You did have me worried there for a second, I pictured this angry disciplinarian yelling at her children, it wasn't the nicest thought

 

we can't buy our way to heaven with good deeds.

Clearly outlined in the passage, only where your intention is to buy your way into heaven (line 10 within the context of the passage in entirety). It is the distinction that these are no longer good deeds but are part of a business proposition and defy the faith requirement. This is what I originally stated...though on second thought was ambiguous about being high and mighty on the basis of personal deeds, which would be to display no humility or appreciation of life and is not a good thing, my apolegies there as this is obviously your point and is also clearly stated and probably more obviously than my point. I am a sucker for subtleties.

 

I think the confusion is that some regard faith as a servile intention but Grace is not some sort of payment plan (though it is definitely true neither can it be simulated-though this is getting beside a proceding statement).

Hence I'm not a big fan of "karmha" myself, it makes no sense. Good things do nothing for you, there is no reward and if anything are most likely to disadvantage you in any competitive environment. They are about personal expression only, and thus require no reason. But you do tend to accumulate fewer personal issues which can influence your naturally considerate behaviour. That's all. If anything to be honest my life has most convinced me I would be excluded from any comfortable follow up, I'm a virtual fatalist, but I do feel some small part of me has already been eternally saved and only some really dumb mistakes would unseat it, kind of like a big brother following you around nobody else can see, that helps you out in small ways and that kind of thing, just a sense of some small belonging.

[Totenkopf]

Hence I'm not a big fan of "karmha" myself, it makes no sense. Good things do nothing for you, there is no reward and if anything are most likely to disadvantage you in any competitive environment. They are about personal expression only, and thus require no reason. But you do tend to accumulate fewer personal issues which can influence your naturally considerate behaviour.

 

 

Well the idea behind karma is clearly not so pointless as you suggest. It doesn't say that you should do good things just so that good things will happen to you. Afterall, bad things happen to good people too. I think it has more in common with the passage about how you reap what you sow. Even if you took God out of the equation, doing good can either be its own reward or maybe even lead to people doing nice things for you as well. While it could lead to be a disadvantage in a competitive environment, that is not necessarily axiomatic.

[vanir]

Well it may not be axiomatic, it is the most common result. Karma is ridiculously limited as a behavioural philosophy. It's like trying to explain the workings of an axial turbine with a paper plane.

[Rev7]

This is the universal definition of Christian belief:

 

Please note that the word "catholic" in the creed does not refer to Catholicism in the modern sense, as it was written about a thousand years before there were any separate Christian denominations at all.

 

This creed is the basis of Christian doctrine, and any doctrine that does not meet all of these requirements is not Christian.

 

 

That having been said, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that:

 

They believe that Christ was created by God, not that He is God and part of the Holy Trinity. As a matter of fact, they do not believe in the Trinity at all. Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian.

 

To the casual observer, Mormons are a bit harder to differentiate from Christians, but:

 

Put simply, Mormons believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three separate beings, not three incarnations of the same being as defined in the Athanasian and Nicene Creeds. Mormons also have their own scripture that is unique to them, while the sole scripture used by all of the Christian denominations is the Bible, and nothing else. Therefore, the Mormons are not Christian.

 

Neither one of those sects meets the definition as spelled out in the Athanasian Creed.

Precisely, good post

[Jae Onasi]

Good things do nothing for you, there is no reward and if anything are most likely to disadvantage you in any competitive environment.

I would disagree on that point. Doing good things (volunteering, praying for someone, making a meal to take to someone who's just lost a loved one or just had a baby, etc.) can all have positive physical effects on you, the person doing the good deed, aside from the generally positive human interaction in such settings.

 

Is it disadvantageous in a competitive environment? If everyone is playing by the rules, no. If you're the only one who's honest/honorable, it could be, but that doesn't stop me from trying to be as ethical in my job as I can.

[EnderWiggin]

Good things do nothing for you, there is no reward and if anything are most likely to disadvantage you in any competitive environment.

 

Biological Reasoning behind Altruistic Behaviors in the Wild

 

_EW_

[Jae Onasi]

Biological Reasoning behind Altruistic Behaviors in the Wild

 

_EW_

 

That's a batty site, EW.

[Q]

Boo.

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

....Is your shift key broken Serious discussion forum. ¬

ive never bothered with capitalization except for referring to God and creating threads. but if it bothers you, then heck, ok.

 

I feel almost sad that you are trying to categorize the outlandish Mormons with all Mormons.

JC: Why 'almost'

You do know that some Christians actually believe the World was created in 6 days, right There are actually some here that believe that. You wouldn't want to be put in that group just as my friend would hate to be confused with a group who believes Jesus and Satan are brothers.

Do you know all your friend's views and standpoints?

 

I won't be put in that 'group of Christians'. I'll jump in. I do believe the world was created in 6 days.

 

 

 

I'm going to go ahead and point out that, in your search to find out about mormons... you went directly to the cult watch websites. That is a pretty far cry from actually researching them, as you've decided that your first interpretation of them is going to be the worst of them, which I do not think is fair.

Who said I was researching them? That was just one site. It was to clarify only what I was saying. (that/how Mormons arent Christians)

I agree that my first impression is negative, but it is based on what I know of the Mormons, which is not too much, and not good stuff. But if i was actually researching them, I would try to adopt a neutral standpoint and go from there.

An example:

 

 

Now, is that fair? Should I base my entire view on the -entirety- of Christianity on those words?

Even though that picture exaggerates things, (and this is quite funny,) but as far as iI can see, everything it says is true. lol (except for one thing: 'symbolically eating His flesh' has nothing to do with 'Him making you live forever' )

But you make a good point nonetheless.

 

Your site is not informative.

If its not informative for you, I asume you already knew those things? I sure didnt. (love bombing, character assassination... yow)

It is biased,

:

Since you're Christians, doesn't that make you biased

 

Yes of course it does. But the reality is that everyone - you, me, and even the person who claims to be unbiased - is biased.

 

You see we all have our own beliefs about reality, and we color what we see by those beliefs. Since it is impossible to be unbiased the best we can do is try our very hardest to recognize our bias and try to not let it affect our judgment.

 

All that we ask of anyone is to carefully read or listen to our information and come to the point where they understand what we are putting forward. Once they understand our position then we ask them to consider it carefully and come to some conclusions. That really is all we can ask of people.

...discriminatory,

:

CULTWATCH believes most cult members to be sincere people. One of the primary purposes of CULTWATCH is to help those people see the “other side of the story” - the side their leaders would rather they not see. Our dislike is for the various cult systems and organizations, but not for cult members themselves. Therefore we recommend that you never treat a cult member unkindly. Instead encourage them to research their group independently; help them to discover the other side of the story.

...and focusing entirely on the flaws of the belief system without taking in mind that what is supposed to be believed and what is can be entirely different.

 

Their purpose is to inform people in cults of the things that their cult leaders will not tell them, which are the flaws.

 

 

 

 

What does this even mean What, pray tell, is christian and what is not when there is no solid definition Christianity, as a whole, is not a religion per say; it is a collection of religions under one name, all of which have different interpretations of the bible, Jesus, etc. To call yourself Christian is akin to calling yourself Human; humans come in many shapes, colors, and sizes and must be acknowledged to understand what the word implies. You cannot simply be Christian, as to be Christian you have to belong to one of the many Denominations.

 

Also, any christian includes Mormons and JWs, so your point is moot as they are defined as a Nontrinitarian Denomination (Which includes Jehovah's Witnesses, Latter Day Saints, Unitarians, Christadelphians, and the Oneness Pentecostal).

 

The only real definition of "Christian" we have is a belief that Jesus was the son of a one and only God, and that he was the savior, etc. Mormons and JW fit that description regardless of if you want to see that as a point of view or not. The fact is they believe it, and unless you have a better definition for me to work off of the statement stands that they are indeed Christian.

The Nicene Creed has been used for the definition of Christianity for about 1700 years. Its universally accepted to be a solid comparison tool for situations like this. And like Q said, Mormons aren't Christians.

 

But look at it from another standpoint:

In the first century opponents of the early church started calling them "Christians", a derogative term referring to Christ. Its just like if I start calling Mormons "Smithies". The term "Christian" can be taken as "of Christ". I would call Mormons "Smithies" because they follow the teachings of Joseph Smith.

Those teachings of Mormons are not what Christ taught or endorsed. They are not "of Christ". Now some teachings that are not "of Christ" aren't too damning, but the Mormon belief about salvation, which would be the core aspect of any religion, is not "of Christ". If their core belief is not "Christian", then Mormon ≠ Christianity.

 

It was once considered Christian to stone people to death. Treat women like trash.

Old Testament.

 

As I said, Christianity was at one point a Cult. But, really, the definition of "Cult" is incredibly poor as, by definition, anything that does not follow orthodox Christian is a cult. Which, then you come to the problem of picking out what exactly the correct sect of Christianity -is-.

Personally, I believe that there is no 'correct' denomination.

 

As well as these articles, you seemed to have gone directly to the "terrible cultists" part of the Wiki I linked, so I, again, recommend finding out more about Mormons and JWs than Cultwatch and information from a guy who knows a guy,

Sure, I didn't read all of your wikis but apparently you didn't read most of the site I posted, which is ok; I didn't/don't expect you to.

 

as I doubt you or any other Christians here want me generalizing you all with your... flavorful fundamentalists.

OK, whats with the 'fundamentalist = crap' undertone?

 

I'm not entirely sure, but I think I'm fundamentalist (but not a gay-basher, mind you).

(The following is slightly off topic, hence the hide.)

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I believe the literal account of creation not because I refuse to accept any evidence, but because I haven't looked into the subject. I haven't had any need to. I suppose I'm not hard out fundamentalist, but rather grew up in a fundamentalist environment.

If I ever really need to look into the subject, I'll find out more about it than "They found all the 'facts' from a frikkin pig's tooth."

This is my situation with a lot of things.

 

 

If, however, you still want to push the terrible cult idea I'd be more than happy to re-post an old post of mine pointing out the origins of Christianity. That, or I can PM you if this is conversation is off-topic.

Please do post your comment, or a link to it. I'm interested to hear what you have to say.

[Rev7]

You do know that some Christians actually believe the World was created in 6 days, right There are actually some here that believe that. You wouldn't want to be put in that group just as my friend would hate to be confused with a group who believes Jesus and Satan are brothers.

One question--the Bible says that by the 7th day He created the World.

 

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested [a] from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

 

So why exactly would I not want to be categorized like that? Just curious...