Ultimate Vader Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Btw, Revan don't know the structure of DS and its weakness, as TS never stated it. So we can cut the whole thing about the man who destroys DS. Even if Revan wants to know about DS' structure, it's gonna take a while to get the information, and DS will destroy SF before it's going to happen. I also agree that we never saw the true potential of SF, but as long as there's no way to stop the superlaser from destroying SF, I'm with Death Star. Still waiting for someone to enlighten me and tell me how to stop DS from using the superlaser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demongo Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 And another point I would like to add is that, it took a whole fleet to destroy the Star Forge. It took only one X-Wing fighter to destroy the Death Star. Well if Luke would be the only who attacks the Death Star, he would be destroyed in seconds by TIE-Fighters and DV. It took not just one elite Squardron to destroy it. And the other thing is the Death Star plans. The Rebels had to find those plans if they were to destroy that space station. The Republic didn't get any information about the Star Forge, only it's location. They could destroy it, without any information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Vader Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Any takers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Hord Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Lets look at it this way: The Star Forge has its fleet surrounding it. The Death Star has its fleet and a fully charged superlaser. The Star Forge fleet (which is constantly churning out new ships) engages the Imperial fleet. It doesn't have a new ship ready every second of they day. Plus they need manpower for them and I already posted there is no proof that SF could pilot the ships without any "meatbags"(and from what we seen in the clone wars, the droids would be inferior to human piloted ships). If the death star has it's floet present then the star forge's fleet is screwed. The Imperial fleet has 4000 year tech. advantage and a wider variety of ships available to it. The Death Star fires its superlaser, but the blast takes out a Sith Cruiser instead of its intended target. The Death Star 1 can only target planets/stationary objects and it couldn't change the power of each laser shot(like the 2nd death star does when targeting capital ships) meaning all of them are meant for a planet. An Interdictor (which is smaller then the ISD) ship would have to be anticipating the shot and I highly a doubt 600m ship could contain the laser and not have it go through the other side of the ship and onto its target. The Star Forge continues to churn out Dark Side powered ships, which decimate the Imperial fleet. In about a day, the Imperial fleet is gone The ships themselves aren't powered by the darkside or there would have been mention to this feeling when you were on the Leiviathan (before Malak showed up) What is so hard to understand that even for the star forge it takes time for it to build ships like the Sith Interdictor class. How do you expect the SF fleet to take on a Imperial fleet such as the one at Endor that is 4000 years ahead of them and are superior in every way? This isn't even considering the effect the disruptor field could have on the battle. That energy field alone would probably destroy or maroon more Imperial ships than all of the Star Forge ships. Assuming it could even work on ships from that far in the future I could just as easily say that the Imperials in charge realize this after the lose a few ships and takeout Lehon and then its fleet destroys the Star Forge, just like the republic fleet of smaller numbers and doesn't have a 4000 year advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Vader Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 ^Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Hord Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Sorry ahead of time for the double post I'm with Darth Yuthura on this one. The Death Star is no more then a shall of a weapon. Where's the Star Forge is draws its on the dark side of the force. Yes, the death star has a super laser and can blow up things, but the Star Forge has the ability to use the force to corrupt users and species. The Star Forge corrupted the minds of the Rakatan which caused a civil war that, coupled with a plague, pretty much wiped out the species, apart from a few forgotten tribes on the Rakatan homeworld. This doesn't mean anything in a space battle. Notice how none of the members of your party (force sensitives and non force sensitives) can land on it and arent automatically corrupted. Heck, the thing could have created a shield to block the Death Stars laser or maybe something far worse... Could have,would haves can't apply. We can only debate on the known information not speculation. And im pretty sure that the superlaser could penetrate shielded planets. (stated on wookieepedia, ill try to verify it) And another point I would like to add is that, it took a whole fleet to destroy the Star Forge. It took only one X-Wing fighter to destroy the Death Star. It took an X-wing piloted by Luke Skywalker(who had aid from Han or Vader would have killed him) relying on the force. The rebels spent a long time trying to acquire the death star plans and finding a weakness. Even they found a weakness, rebel pilots thought it was impossible "even for a targeting computer," noticed how the first X-wing's targeting computer couldn't hit the mark and so I don't see how a sith fighter (assuming it even has proton torpedos or anything for this sort of mission) would be able to hit the target when it's computer is inferior. This thread is like comparing apples to oranges, the Star Forge and the Death Stars were built for completely different purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demongo Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Sorry ahead of time for the double post This doesn't mean anything in a space battle. Notice how none of the members of your party (force sensitives and non force sensitives) can land on it and arent automatically corrupted. Could have,would haves can't apply. We can only debate on the known information not speculation. And im pretty sure that the superlaser could penetrate shielded planets. (stated on wookieepedia, ill try to verify it) It took an X-wing piloted by Luke Skywalker(who had aid from Han or Vader would have killed him) relying on the force. The rebels spent a long time trying to acquire the death star plans and finding a weakness. Even they found a weakness, rebel pilots thought it was impossible "even for a targeting computer," noticed how the first X-wing's targeting computer couldn't hit the mark and so I don't see how a sith fighter (assuming it even has proton torpedos or anything for this sort of mission) would be able to hit the target when it's computer is inferior. This thread is like comparing apples to oranges, the Star Forge and the Death Stars were built for completely different purposes. Basically, that's what I said:xp: This "argument" will never end:lsduel: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Vader Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 ^No. SF team won't have the time to acquire DS' blueprint and destroy the DS. DS will destroy SF with its superlaser, as I have stated before. And TS never stated about preparation time, so we assume there's no prep time. Still DS for the win. Lets look at it this way: The Star Forge has its fleet surrounding it. The Death Star has its fleet and a fully charged superlaser. The Star Forge fleet (which is constantly churning out new ships) engages the Imperial fleet. The Death Star fires its superlaser, but the blast takes out a Sith Cruiser instead of its intended target. The Star Forge continues to churn out Dark Side powered ships, which decimate the Imperial fleet. In about a day, the Imperial fleet is gone, the Death Star is fully charge, but the Sith battle fleet has blocked off all chances of the Death Star hitting its target. The Sith cruisers engage and destroy the Death Star, and the Sith Empire wins. This isn't even considering the effect the disruptor field could have on the battle. That energy field alone would probably destroy or maroon more Imperial ships than all of the Star Forge ships. I assume you don't read the condition for this battle in TS's post. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2-X2 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 It's like Darth Hord said. The SF can produce droids and cruisers and fighters, but no soldiers, pilots, or any other living things. Also, it takes more than a second to create an entire fleet, some poeple really think that the SF produces a mass of fleets and pilots in a couple of seconds/minutes, but that's too fast. It would take up to a week to produce a fleet. Also, the DS is "indestructable", even if you have masses of battle ships and cruisers. The proton torpedo way is the only way to destroy it, and the Sith won't hear of it and get the Death Star's plans within minutes. It costed the Rebels months/years to get the plans and find the weak point. At all, the Death Star wins with an propability of 110 percent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Vader Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 ^Where does the extra 10% come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Hunger Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Think for a moment about the factor of speed. The Death Star might be a weapon capable of destroying planets, but is as slow as ****! That's how most Imperial tech is, powerful yet slow. The Star Forge under Malak was increasing in production capacity and speed every day. In the Battle of Rakata Prime it was at 300%! Imagine if Revan, a far stronger mind, actually chose to push the Forge to its limit! Also, remember what Vader said: "The power to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force." The Infinite Empire, the first Galactic Empire when it comes down to it, achieved far more in their tenure of power than what Palpatine's Empire did. World Devastators? The Infinite Empire had not only that but terraformers, and it was likely that they were the same thing. And looking at the Star Forge, the Infinite Empire conquered and destroyed with speed. I'm also wondering what addition capacities the Star Forge could possess if Malak continued to experiment with it. Could he use Bastila as a conduit to infect the GE's ranks with Dark Side energies? While that might not be the scenario we are discussing it is worth thinking about.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Vader Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 ^First of all, think about how fast do the DS fire the superlaser. And also, DS is slow in what category? Because DS can do hyperspace travel and fire the superlaser in a pretty quick time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 This really is a meta-battle of thoery vs. practicality. The SF may sound like a better tool in theory: a seemingly infinite, highly-productive, labour-less military complex (it should be noted that contrary to what it's sometimes called, the Star Forge is not a weapon, it is a factory). The Death Star is a space-station first, notable for its superlaser that possesses tremendous power. It is mobile, highly-effective in its function and ready for operation. The only way these two are similar is in that they are both space stations with comparable amount of defensive capablities and that they were both in possession of Dark Side Empires. What would I pick if I had to choose one during war? I'd pick the Death Star first - its sheer power and psychological impact would allow it to be used similar to a nuclear weapon, as an intimidation tool first and a weapon second. Even if it doesn't terrorise my enemies into surrendering, it'd devastate core planets. Edit: Has anyone else noticed that this thread should be in Republic Newsfeed and not Telos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2-X2 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Also most people forget all other lasers at the DS. There are more than 2000 turbolasers and ion canons. If the DS would do an orbital bombardement like the Leviathan did, he would blow up every single cruiser. And, due to the fact the Sith don't know the weak point, the fighters would be lost, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Compare this to the F-22 Raptor. It is THE most capable fighter in the world. You can engage it against five F-15's and it would expect victory, but it can't replace five F-15's. The Death Star can wipe out planets, yes; but the Star Forge can do the same thing. Only it can do it without limit. The Death Star needs an Empire to operate and fuel it where the Star Forge is powered by a star! Nothing beats that kind of energy. And if anyone starts complaining about manpower, then the DS would lose hands down, as it requires a million people to operate it. That wasn't a limiting factor for the Sith when Revan was in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Man Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I'd say its a draw. You have the Death Star and its Giant Laser, but the Star Forge has its energy field and the infinite ship/robot/weapon spawner. More than likely, Sidious would personally power down the field, then he'd be on the first ship to the death star, which rolled its way through space to used the giant laser and blow up the Forge or the star. But teh Forge already would've created hundreds of thousands, if not millions, or ships and robots, enabling them to completely obliterate the Death Star, because having millions of fighters at your disposal is better than a tractor beam and a few TIE's. Then again, The star forge was destroyed 4000 years before the Death Star was an inkling in a mans mind. IWN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Hunger Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Another factor to consider: The Star Forge could build the components of a Death Star, as well the droids and fleet necessary to assemble one. Hey Vader, it's Revan! Death Star? I just finished building my fifth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Another factor to consider: The Star Forge could build the components of a Death Star, as well the droids and fleet necessary to assemble one. Hey Vader, it's Revan! Death Star? I just finished building my fifth! Brilliant. So the Star Forge is worth as much as X Death Stars. So if you destroy one, there will always be more. I'd love to see how many Luke can destroy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Hord Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 And if anyone starts complaining about manpower, then the DS would lose hands down, as it requires a million people to operate it. That wasn't a limiting factor for the Sith when Revan was in charge. Could you clarify this for me. Are you saying that when Revans was DLOTS that man power wasn't a problem for Revan? But was a problem for the GE/DS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Well since everyone was making an unreasonable argument about pilots, I figured that it should be a double bladed edge. Manpower isn't a limiting factor, yet people were making it such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I mark i Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 you must also consider that the radacans(sp?) were more technologically advanced then the republic at the time. The radacans(sp?) are similar to the forerunners of Halo. so the 4000 year gap in technology is a little bit less than one would consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Welcome to Lucasforums, I mark i. I think that the technology isn't a factor, considering that you probably could duplicate anything and everything within the Star Forge. The issue I see is not raw destructive power, but how much any one of these stations could do to influence the course of the Galaxy. There really is no equal to the Forge, but the Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher, and world devastators all are superior to the Death Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Vader Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 ^Good point. Seriously. Do you really think Star Forge could duplicate the Death Star? They may have the resources (which I really doubt), but they don't even have the intelligence to do that. And the issue is about Star Forge vs Death Star in a battle, look at the title. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trench Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Hey Vader, it's Revan! Death Star? I just finished building my fifth! I agree with Lord of Hunger and Darth_Yuthura on that account. Plus, if the Star Forge wasn't producing droid piloted ships during the games, that's just because they had more than enough Sith Troopers to pilot them. If it needed to, the Star Forge would have produced fighters which were probably similar to CIS Droid fighters to defend itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Vader Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Another factor to consider: The Star Forge could build the components of a Death Star, as well the droids and fleet necessary to assemble one. Hey Vader, it's Revan! Death Star? I just finished building my fifth! No. SF don't have the intelligence and technology to build something 4000 years ahead of his time. Fail, try again. I agree with Lord of Hunger and Darth_Yuthura on that account. Plus, if the Star Forge wasn't producing droid piloted ships during the games, that's just because they had more than enough Sith Troopers to pilot them. If it needed to, the Star Forge would have produced fighters which were probably similar to CIS Droid fighters to defend itself. Nope. Prove it that SF can create technology 4000 years ahead of him. Otherwise, you fail. DS wins this. Compare this to the F-22 Raptor. It is THE most capable fighter in the world. You can engage it against five F-15's and it would expect victory, but it can't replace five F-15's. The Death Star can wipe out planets, yes; but the Star Forge can do the same thing. Only it can do it without limit. The Death Star needs an Empire to operate and fuel it where the Star Forge is powered by a star! Nothing beats that kind of energy. And if anyone starts complaining about manpower, then the DS would lose hands down, as it requires a million people to operate it. That wasn't a limiting factor for the Sith when Revan was in charge. DS destroys a planet faster, and so will the DS do the same to SF. The shield of Executor has the power of a medium star if I remembered correctly. Fail. Try again. you must also consider that the radacans(sp?) were more technologically advanced then the republic at the time. The radacans(sp?) are similar to the forerunners of Halo. so the 4000 year gap in technology is a little bit less than one would consider. First, sorry about the quadruple post. The number of weapons that Leviathan has is small compared to Executor's. That's a big gap in 4000 years of technology. Fail. Try again. Combined quad post. No multiple posts please edit your last post or use the multi-quote feature, thanks. -RH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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