Executor vs. any other ship from the KotOR

[Pikmin]

Either the Leviathan or The Ravager.

[Ping]

How do you come to <100 when the ship didn't fire all its lasers during those scenes?

 

How can you be sure of Executer's compliment? Maybe the technical manuals were wrong. I certainly don't remember seeing a dozen laser points at any point on Executer in TESB or ROTJ. Maybe the lasers on Laviathan were ten times as powerful as those on Executer?

 

The point was that you can't really compare Executer to a 4000 year old ship of any kind.

 

Seriously, just because you don't like the more modern SW capital ships doesn't mean they're worse than the old ones. And if the technical manuals you're referring to are official sources, no matter how much you don't like them, they're official, so you can't really say that they're wrong, as they are canon sources.

 

Executor would definitely pwn any KOTOR ship. No question about it. I mean, it makes the Leviathan look like a starfighter. I can't help but wonder what would happen if we paired up the Executor with the Lusankya. That would make some major destruction...

[Darth Milenko]

the Star Forge or the Ravager. the Ravager is a MAJOR maybe, but the Star Forge wouls be the closest to ever destroying it. the only reason i'm saying this is because it is said that Capital Ships could easily move between it's gaps. and it could create an infinite amout of droids and ships. therefore making it "the creator". "the creator" would be able to summon any ships it creates to destroy Vader's ship.

[Ping]

the Star Forge or the Ravager. the Ravager is a MAJOR maybe, but the Star Forge wouls be the closest to ever destroying it. the only reason i'm saying this is because it is said that Capital Ships could easily move between it's gaps. and it could create an infinite amout of droids and ships. therefore making it "the creator". "the creator" would be able to summon any ships it creates to destroy Vader's ship.

 

I kind of doubt the Ravager would stand up to the Executor. I mean, it's already damaged to start with it, so I'd put my money on the Executor. Also, the Star Forge is more of a superweapon than a capital ship, but if the Executor rammed the Star Forge, it might win.

[Fredi]

Yeah and the Star Forge is not a ship, it's a Space-based factory.

[ForeverNight]

Anything from the KotOR Era?

 

Not a chance.

 

Not only does the Executor have 4000 years worth of innovations to it, but the sheer size of the thing and the weapons batteries... Well, 5000 turbolasers is a lot of energy to direct onto a single target. Now, even assuming that only 20% of the shots hit -they're shooting like the Stormtroopers in the movies- that's 1000 bolts of energy, concentrated onto shields that are vastly outdated.

 

That's in a straight up 1 vs. 1 with both hypeing into the system at the same time.

 

However, if the Ebon Hawk or another like ship manages to get within the shields -much like in Solo Command when the pilot manages to get a TIE inside a SSD's shields and starts destroying it. Or if a pair of fighters manage to get in the superstructure of the Executor a la Wraith Squadron than the Executor is toast.

 

Likely? Less than a Snowball surviving in hell for a week. Possible? Yeah.

 

Now, let's even the odds, put in that fleet that was mentioned earlier.

 

Still, the Executor is going to win. Why? 4000 years of innovations and inventions and devices that were never even thought of in the KotOR era. So, asuming that they get the drop in on the Executor and pound it for a while, the Executor is going to win because it: A) Has 5000+ turbolasers to bear on anyship in the fleet. B) Huge TIE wing, including Bombers, Interceptor and Fighters. Even Defenders if you get lucky. And, C) It has powerful shields -unless the generator is destroyed and stray A-Wing hits the bridge... which, somehow, results in the ship's death... somehow. Never quite understood how.

 

Anyway, this question is like asking: "Can the Wright Flyer engage in Air to Air Combat with a F-22 Raptor and win?

 

Like hell it will. The F-22 will see it and destroy it before the Flyer even get's and idea where it is.

 

I imagine that much the same would occur when the Executor and a KotOR Era ship meet...

 

My 2 cents...

[Demongo]

the Star Forge or the Ravager

 

Ravager, would be destroyed in seconds. See ForeverNight's points.^^^^^^

 

Did you read the poll question carefully?

 

Do you think that a ship from the KotOR era could destroy the Executor?

The Star Forge is not a ship. But it could destroy the Executor:xp:

[kingofsquid]

1. The Ravager is held together by Nihilius. It cannot be destroyed until he is dead.

2. The Hawk could stand up to TIEs, even a fleet. It is invincible (at least when I am shooting) and could easily pull an A-Wing on te bridge.

[purifier]

Can't say for sure, might be an even match. Like to see it though just for s**ts and giggles.

[ForeverNight]

1. The Ravager is held together by Nihilius. It cannot be destroyed until he is dead.

2. The Hawk could stand up to TIEs, even a fleet. It is invincible (at least when I am shooting) and could easily pull an A-Wing on te bridge.

 

Really?

 

You can shoot down 144 TIE's and 200 Misc. Combat support ships? Before they even get a shot or two in???

 

Impressive.

 

No. It's a physical impossibility for a ship such as the Ebon Hawk -which while it may have been very fast in the KotOR Era I imagine that 4000+ years of innovations have rendered it useless- to dodge all the energy and weaponry that the Executor and it's supporting ships will be throwing at it.

 

Purifier: See my points if you're not convinced that the Executor would win, other than that it would be neat to watch... in a vaguely horrified way....

[Master Shake]

Really?

 

You can shoot down 144 TIE's and 200 Misc. Combat support ships? Before they even get a shot or two in???

 

Impressive.

 

No. It's a physical impossibility for a ship such as the Ebon Hawk -which while it may have been very fast in the KotOR Era I imagine that 4000+ years of innovations have rendered it useless- to dodge all the energy and weaponry that the Executor and it's supporting ships will be throwing at it.

 

Purifier: See my points if you're not convinced that the Executor would win, other than that it would be neat to watch... in a vaguely horrified way....

This guy's got the right idea.

 

Kind of like seeing a pitbull take on a chihuahua.

[TKA-001]

4000 years ago, they had technology that was essentially superior to that from 4000 years in the future.

Balderdash.

They had personal stealth generators

And later eras didn't? Off the top of my head, I can recall that Imperial saboteurs (seen in Jedi Academy), the Imperial Remnant's Shadowtroopers (seen in Jedi Outcast), and the Empire's Blackhole stormtroopers (seen in The Force Unleashed X-Box 360/PS3 versions) all possess technology more or less equivalent to the capabilities of personal stealth technology seen in the KOTOR games.

 

thermal detonators

You might not remember this, but Leia threatened Jabba the Hutt with a thermal detonator in Episode 6, and thermal detonators have appeared in dozens of sources set during the years before and during the reign of the Empire.

 

disruptors

And later eras didn't? Disruptors were used by Sith officers during the New Sith Wars (source: Darth Bane: Path of Destruction), bounty hunters and other criminals regularly used disruptor rifles (sources: Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy), and disruptors were a standard infantry weapon used by Zann Consortium foot soldiers (source: Empire at War - Fources of Corruption).

 

and touchscreens.

Off the top of my head I can recall pilot droids on the Invisible Hand using touchscreens on the bridge in Episode III. Besides, why does whether touchscreens are used make any difference?

 

Some of these already existed in the original trilogy

...or all of them.

 

but they still hadn't perfected cloaking devices for small ships

Darth Maul's personal ship had a functional cloaking device (reference: Episode I Visual Dictionary). The starship used by Darth Vader's apprentice did as well (reference: The Force Unleashed). Later, the Empire developed several projects based around cloaking devices, one of which successfully mass-produced cloak-capable TIE starfighters (reference: Rebel Assault II - The Hidden Empire). The Empire also build two Executor-class Star Dreadnaughts with cloaking devices (references: Rebel Assault II - The Hidden Empire, Rogue Squadron III - Rebel Strike). Even the Zann Consortium criminal empire was able to field starships with cloaking capabilities (source: Empire at War - Forces of Corruption). Cloaking devices have been specified as running on stygium crystals, which were evidently only found on the planet Aeten II. The planet's stores of these crystals were neigh-completely depleted by the time the Empire rose, so that explains the rarity of cloaking devices during that era.

 

Yeah, a Laviathan-class ship rams the Executer. Resulting in the Executer being destroyed.

I hope that this is a jest of some kind. In case it isn't, though, bull****. During the Siege of Yavin after the first Death Star's destruction, three Imperial Star Destroyers made a hyperspace miscalculation that caused them to ram into the Executor at a faster-than-light speed. They exploded against the behemoth's shields and did no significant damage (source: Race for Survival).

 

How can you be sure of Executer's compliment?

By looking at the most up to date canonical sources which details the vessel's stats.

 

Maybe the technical manuals were wrong.

No, I'm pretty sure you just don't have any actual evidence to support your conclusion(s).

 

I certainly don't remember seeing a dozen laser points at any point on Executer in TESB or ROTJ.

"We don't see thousands of guns on the Executor in the movies, so they can't exist." You know what that sounds like? That sounds like the minimalist Traviss fans who insist that because the movies don't show thousands of Star Destroyers or quintillions of Separatist battle droids or quadrillions of clone troopers, then they can't possibly exist, no matter how silly that would be.

 

Maybe the lasers on Laviathan were ten times as powerful as those on Executer?

What reason do we have to believe or even consider this?

 

The point was that you can't really compare Executer to a 4000 year old ship of any kind.

You're making this far more complicated than it needs to be.

 

For the sake of simplicity, we can surmise for the time being that firepower levels of Old Republic-era starships are more or less the same as that of later eras, because we have no particular reason to believe otherwise; The only significant difference between technology in the two eras is that as we go further forward in the timeline, starships and other vehicles become larger and more overall powerful in design. Once that is established, the only thing we need to look at is the armament of the two vessels. The Interdictor-class? Five medium turbolasers and six point-defense lasers (source: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide). The Executor-class? 4,000 turbolaser cannons, not counting other weapon emplacements (source:Starship Battles Preview 1 on Wizards.com).

 

The entire premise of this thread is ridiculous. It's no bloody contest. The Executor could ram the Leviathan (or, indeed, any vessel from the KOTOR era) and destroy it without even needing to fire a shot.

 

So can you find any Cruiser/ Star Destroyer from the Kotor era that could destroy it?

No such vessels exist in the canon. Even the most powerful vessel known to be used by the Sith during and after the Jedi Civil War is dwarfed in size and firepower dozens of times over by the Empire's Imperial-class Star Destroyer, which is a dime a dozen as far as the Empire is concerned. This I learned with no more than five minutes of research on Wookieepedia. This isn't the sort of question where you need the consensus of an entire forum community to figure out the answer.

[Revan 411]

The Executor is a cool ship and all, but I prefer Darth Nihilus's ship more. It just feels more of a living creature instead of a ship. It has been in battle before, and instead of technology that's keeping the ship intact, its the force. And as Vader says:

 

''The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.''

 

However, what is curious is that if the Exile and the Mandalorions still planted those minds but never faced Nihlius, would the ship still be in operation? Because, I've read on this topic before and somebody said that Nihlius needs to be destroyed in order to blow up his ship.

[Miltiades]

Nope. The Executor is massive, and has a 4,000 years lead in technology to anything KotOR.

 

The Ravager's barely holding it together, and even if it was brand new, it couldn't hold up against the Executor. The Ravager itself isn't that dangerous, it's who's in there that is.

[TKA-001]

And as Vader says:

 

''The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.''

Interesting that you mention that, when no EU source, canon or not, has ever shown the Force used to do anything more powerful than the destruction of all life on a planet. What Vader was saying was that Tarkin's overall philosophy for ruling the Empire through fear of force (see Tarkin Doctrine) was flawed, not that use of the Force is superior to technology in every instance.

 

However, what is curious is that if the Exile and the Mandalorions still planted those minds but never faced Nihlius, would the ship still be in operation? Because, I've read on this topic before and somebody said that Nihlius needs to be destroyed in order to blow up his ship.

No, Nihilus would very much be dead and so would his ship if they just set the bombs off and left. If Nihilus can survive the explosions of his ship being ripped apart, than slashing at his face with a lightsaber isn't going to do any good. Nihilus' power is only keeping the ship structurally intact; He isn't feeding energy into the ship's shield generators, for instance. The reason the Exile and the gang went in to kill Nihilus personally was probably because she/he wanted to make sure that he wouldn't escape.

[AntonioMotti]

Executor I-class Star Dreadnought

Length: 19000 m

Speed: 32 MGLT

Acceleration: 4 MGLT/s

Maneuverability: 1 DPF

Hyperdrive: Class 2.0

Shielding: 96000 SBD

Hull: 45712 RU

Armament 1: 2000 turreted heavy turbolaser cannons

Armament 2: 2000 turreted turbolaser cannons

Armament 3: 250 turreted heavy turboion cannons

Armament 4: 500 turreted light laser cannons

Armament 5: 250 (30) heavy concussion missile launchers

Armament 6: 40 tractor beam projectors

Complement 1: 720 TIE Fighter

Complement 2: 720 TIE Interceptors

Complement 3: 288 TIE Bombers

Complement 4: 36 TIE Advanced

Complement 5: 36 TIE Advanced

Complement 6: 60 Lambda-class T-4c Shuttles

Complement 7: 60 Delta-class DX-9a Transports

Complement 8: 48 Sentinel-class Landing Craft Mark IIs

Complement 9: 32 Gamma-class ATR-6 Assault Transports

 

there is not competitor, only Death Star can beat star dreadnought 1vs1

[Roller123]

a single fighter can destroy the Executor, Deathstar or whatever. Armed with a number of nuclear missiles. One to break the shield. One to annihilate the ship. Even North Korea could destroy a Death Star. Sorry Luke.

[AntonioMotti]

a single fighter can destroy the Executor, Deathstar or whatever. Armed with a number of nuclear missiles. One to break the shield. One to annihilate the ship. Even North Korea could destroy a Death Star. Sorry Luke.

 

yea yea we saw it

but if i remember there is a question if there is spaceship what can beat star dreadnought in normal fight not sabotage

if you detonate any explosive in munition store you can destroy any ship am i right ?

but Demongo is asking a question of normal victory over executor

 

hope you understand me using google translator coz im bit lazy ^^

[Roller123]

If a scout patrol can be armed with rockets, it can destroy a dreadnought. The total destruction radius of a 50Mt bomb was 35km. Multiple times the size of one Star Dreadnought. And that was 1961, barbarian technology.

 

If it cant - loadup scout with stuff, plot suicide course, eject pilot, same result. The Empire sure had nuclear tech right? Its Hollywood man, dont put more thought into it than needed. lal/

[AntonioMotti]

ok i am failed

my english is too poor for this kind of conversation

-you can launch missile but it will not get through shield deflector you have to overload shield or destroy it physically i dont know who would like to make suicide attack ,perhaps kamikaze ^^

-and we forgot on antimissile system

-be sure your scout patrol craft would fail, just one volley from cannons and fighters shouldn't left hangar

-in space is 35 km or 19 km nothing so your ultra mega powerful nuclear missile is like one drop in ocean

-and do you think that civilization who can travel through universe could let destroy them by one pitiful rocket from one small ship?

-dont you think that you are a bit overconfident? ou me too ^^

 

i know this is just film, game or other ****, but you can let us dreaming

[Roller123]

Funny, if i remember it correctly, a suicide fighter was exactly the way that big Star Dreadnought was destroyed in Episode 6.

[ForeverNight]

Alright: The shields on a ship have to be incredibly strong. Why? These things engage in combat against many vessels. The Executor was designed to face off against more than one vessel. Also, I don't know if you know this or not but a Proton Torpedo IS a nuclear warhead. (Source: Ultimate Cross-Sections: Star Wars Original Trilogy) The executor is not stopped by one, it is stopped by MANY at the SAME time in the SAME position. Read X-Wing: Bacta War for a good description of how the Lusyanka (Sp?) was defeated and then remember that it surrendered to prevent total destruction and there were tons of other factors at work.

 

Short Answer: Learn Star Wars more, Executor is the most powerful ship in the galaxy (Exception: Death Star) in its time frame, period.

[Roller123]

So SW fleets DID employ nuclear missiles. Well this makes arguing so much easier then. Im sure you know the first thing George Lucas said at the very first press conference about Starwars. Seriously, who wants an Executor be destroyed by a single fighter like Ebon Hawk, just like that. The Executor was designed to be cool, not survivable. It dies then the writer decides. The way it was destroyed in Ep6 was ridiculous. Nothing in the movies suggests the Executor would survive a missile attack. It doesnt even have an antimissile protection. At least the Ep4 Deathstar doesnt, else all those fighters would be toast.

 

1 Ebon Hawk + 1 missile = one dead Executor, shield or no shield. with such a huge detonation radius, the EB wouldnt even need to go close range. Hyperjump, lauch bomb, hyperjump away and target is dead. Futuristic wars will be so entertaining. :up:

[TKA-001]

Executor is the most powerful ship in the galaxy (Exception: Death Star) in its time frame, period.

I don't mean to nitpick, but the Eclipse is arguably at least as powerful, not counting its superlaser.

 

So SW fleets DID employ nuclear missiles.

The only notable use of nukes in canon was by Mandalorians circa 4,000 BBY, which they used to destroy cities on poorly-defended planets. Destruction of cities can easily be accomplished with turbolaser bombardment.

 

The Executor was designed to be cool, not survivable. It dies then the writer decides.

Since when is this a discussion about how the plot was written, and not about the capability of the starships being discussed?

 

The way it was destroyed in Ep6 was ridiculous.

How's that? It lost its shields after the rebel fleet beat the **** out of it (you may have missed this, but at some point during the Battle of Endor, Ackbar is heard saying "Concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer), and the loss of its bridge caused it to lose control of navigation.

 

Nothing in the movies suggests the Executor would survive a missile attack.

Except common sense. Besides, we don't have only the movies at our disposal.

 

It doesnt even have an antimissile protection.

Since ****ing when? Executor's canon stats (source: "Starship Battles Preview 1 on Wizards.com") include 500 point-defense laser cannons.

 

At least the Ep4 Deathstar doesnt, else all those fighters would be toast.

As detailed in the movie, its defenses were designed against large fleets of heavy capital ships, which is the only method a person without the plans to the thing would think of to attack the thing with. Besides, since the first Death Star carried 7,000 TIEs, it frankly doesn't need fast-targeting guns. The only reason the 30 Rebels in ANH stood a chance was Tarkin's hubris, such that he thought launching an overwhelming number of fighters was unnecessary to prevent them from causing any real damage.

 

1 Ebon Hawk + 1 missile = one dead Executor, shield or no shield. with such a huge detonation radius, the EB wouldnt even need to go close range. Hyperjump, lauch bomb, hyperjump away and target is dead. Futuristic wars will be so entertaining.

I would suggest you reread ForeverNight's post. Furthermore, this ridiculous position of yours is indirectly addressed by the writings of some guy at this web page here, who did detailed analysis on the firepower used in Star Wars energy weaponry (much of it, in fact, is concluded based on what we see in the movies). It's a lot of scientific stuff that frankly goes over my head, and even though I'm sure you have enough time on your hands to read it, you don't need to; suffice to say, turbolasers are really ****ing powerful, therefore shields that are built to withstand them are also really ****ing powerful. As such, there is sufficient reason nuclear bombs are not really used much in Star Wars.

[Roller123]

Since when is this a discussion about how the plot was written

It isnt. Therefore just because the Executor exists doesnt prove that it is sustainable, which obviously has nothing to do with its capabilities. The primary reason it exists is story, not capabilities. Same applies for the Deathstar obviously. These are not real ships... i hope everyone understands that and we stop using arguments such as:

 

Since ****ing when? Executor's canon stats (source: "Starship Battles Preview 1 on Wizards.com") include 500 point-defense laser cannons.

500 guns to cover apr. 2*19length*5width/500guns= 1 gun per 380000 m^2. Thats nothing. But sounds nice.

 

It's a lot of scientific stuff

Interesting article, thanks. That guy is looking at a picture which was designed to look cool, and analizes it, ok .. But then he just assumes multiple numbers being same as on Earth/current knowledge (for example asteroid density, and laser influence on them) and mixes it with some magic laserZ. Can stop reading right here. Its even less than making numbers out of the thin air, its just rubbish. Ok i say the Ebon Hawk uses X-material as structure and GigaLaser to shoot things. X-material is able to withstand any shot from Starwars universe. GigaLaser is able to penetrate shields and hull of any Starwars vessel. Therefore Calo Nord is able to destroy The Executor singlehandely. How are you gonna dispute that. You cant. Because everything is made up. The only known common ground to compare is reality (and here im doing nothing different than that article guy, borrowing numbers from reality to make some ridiculous "analysis" ). And reality states that a nuke is gonna destroy the Executor. And nothing so far suggests otherwise short of wild imagination.

 

 

How's that? It lost its shields after the rebel fleet beat the **** out of it (you may have missed this, but at some point during the Battle of Endor, Ackbar is heard saying "Concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer), and the loss of its bridge caused it to lose control of navigation.

Thats just crazytalk. Disabled ships do not suddenly navigate into the next Deathstar. Not to speak about not having a backup control room.