Tarrot Cards

[Samuel Dravis]

Tarot cards are very boring. Messages from the "other side" are very boring. Mainly because the nature of the game depends upon one being unable to distinguish messages from non-messages. You just can't win at a game like that.

[Mandalore The Shadow]

I am not talking about the Italian Tarot Carg Game im talking about the divination Tarot that was developed after that

[jrrtoken]

I am not talking about the Italian Tarot Carg Game im talking about the divination Tarot that was developed after that

It doesn't matter; it's still relative crock that should never be taken seriously. The only thing you can call it is a "game", and a very tiresome one, to boot.

[Mandalore The Shadow]

Well I think differently and it is not a game it does not fit the definition of a game

[Darth InSidious]

Deja vu?

[Arcesious]

I've never tried anything 'occult' short of chinese fortune cookies. I remember once trying to give those fortune cookies a true chance.

 

For example, five years ago, I got a fortune cookie the generally said 'you will get a girlfriend soon'. Me, being the immature little kid I was, beleived it would really happen because I really wanted to beleive such a thing would happen. Well, its been five years and still nothing. (Not much of an example, but it makes a point.)

 

Now, I've never tried Ouija boards or any sort of 'divination'. And I don't want to naively take the all too 'asking for it' of a position of arrogantly saying "I could try all of that stuff and you'll see nothing bad will happen to me". Truthfully, I admit that I simply don't know for sure if there really are ghosts or demons or whatever, and I don't plan to ever, ever to get into that stuff.

 

My naive side would love to get me to arrogantly type that 'its not real, I could try it and nothing would happen to me', which I suppose is what I really beleive, but that is indeed illogical. I won't dismiss what cannot be disproven. But I can offer my thoughts on the subject.

 

Here's how I look at it... We all have our primitive fears. Naturally, spiders 'scare' me, and yet under logical thought, I have no fear of them. Why is it that I fear spiders but not ants? Primitive, illogical fears. What about skeletons? Human skeletons can creep me out, but skeletons of other animals don't creep me out.

 

Its just all so very interesting. Why is it that dark, abandoned, creaky houses and the ideas of ghosts and demons are scary, but a sunny day and baby turtles hatching on a beach with the soothing backround sound of the ocean isn't scary? It's like a sort of mental 'fear bias'.

 

Primitively, my instincts of make me fear the idea of sleeping alone in an abandoned, creepy house that someone claims to be haunted. But under logical thought, I have no fear whatsoever of the idea. Wierd. No matter how much I 'mentally pulverize' my irrational fears with logic, they just don't go away.

 

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

 

Fear is such an interesting thing. I 'fear' that, if one dwells on playing with their fears too much, they will forget to use their imagination. And that is ~the only reason why~, fear should be feared. (Besides the survival instincts tied to fear) Because in dwelling in ones imagination of fears, your can forget to broaden your imagination past your fears.

 

So I suggest something new. Whoever here uses Ouija boards - replace that peice you move around with a cupcake, a bottle cap, or something else outrageous. Make a Ouija board out of a cake and try it. Use chocolate chip cookies instead of tarot cards. Make up some sort of chocolate-chip shape meaning chart and try to tell your fortunes with the cookies. See if it still works even as you make a joke of it. Humor me and broaden your imagination.

 

As a hypothesis, I predict that you'll discover that your brain is a very clever thing that enjoys playing tricks on itself, and is capable of thinking and doing very, very crazy, wierd, and cool things.

[purifier]

I am not talking about the Italian Tarot Carg Game im talking about the divination Tarot that was developed after that

 

 

You know I always had the suspicion, despite it supposedly being invented by the Italians, that the Italians actually reinvented the Tarot to suit there own entertainment needs as a card playing game. I believe the Italians or someone found an earlier reference to the Tarot system, but turned it into just a game in the early 15th century. And it seems to me that the Orignal Tarot System may have been used for the same purpose that we use the Tarot Decks for today, and that of course would be for the purpose of divination.

 

All though they may only be able to trace the Tarot as far back as the early fifteenth century in northern Italy, It doesn't mean that it did not have an earlier beginning sometime before 15th century Italy. And it doesn't mean that it wasn't used for possibly the same exact purpose (divination) as well.

 

In other words, I'm not sure that it was really invented by the Italians.

 

What do you think MTS?

[Mandalore The Shadow]

Well I think that Tarot dates back to Egyptian times but that has not been proven and I agree that the Italians probably redeveloped the Tarot into a game and then the original resurfaced in the 15th Century like you said

 

 

@Arcesious: I do not fear these things so I will continue as I am

[Darth InSidious]

Well I think that Tarot dates back to Egyptian times

 

Then you think wrong.

[Mandalore The Shadow]

No because that has been niether proven nor disproven

[Ctrl Alt Del]

I've pulled out both the hanged man

 

and the death arcanas.

 

I assume my future is going to be filled with happiness.

[Mandalore The Shadow]

It depends whether the cards were upsidedown or rightside up and Death and The Hanged Man cards are not indicators of Death

[purifier]

Well I think that Tarot dates back to Egyptian times but that has not been proven and I agree that the Italians probably redeveloped the Tarot into a game and then the original resurfaced in the 15th Century like you said

 

 

Yep, that's exactly what I'm thinking, Egyptians. And possibly the earliest dynasty too. Still, it's just a theory....for now.

[Darth InSidious]

Yep, that's exactly what I'm thinking, Egyptians. And possibly the earliest dynasty too. Still, it's just a theory....for now.

 

It's just bollocks.

 

There is no evidence to support your claim, and furthermore, looking at the nature of tarot cards, they bear no resemblance to Egyptian thought or culture at any period. That you're ignorant is one thing. That you talk crap on a subject I happen to hold a doctorate in is quite another, and something I will not tolerate.

 

Let's look at some of the problems, shall we?

 

1) Cards in themselves are an early modern invention and were unknown in the ancient world and originate in 9th Century China. Not Egypt. They probably entered Europe through Muslim Egypt in the Middle Ages. A good thousand years after the last hieroglyphic inscription.

 

2) The symbols used and the cosmology and cosmogony they represent are markedly post-Christian and Western, and bear no resemblance to Egyptian theology. They are culturally and cosmologically medieval, and bear no resemblance to Egyptian thought or ideas.

 

3) We already have ample examples of Egyptian oracular an divinatory methods in use, all of which date from the New Kingdom or later, which follow utterly different principles, concepts and theology to tarot.

 

4) Not only are there no tarot cards from the period, there are no cards at all from the entire ancient world; even at the height of ancient egyptomania and the widespread popularity of the cults of Isis an Osiris, there was no popular demand for a relatively easy method of predicting the future. And yet we know that horoscopes were a popular if clandestine passtime in the Roman Empire. Greco-Roman astrology is well-accounted for.

 

5) Egyptian religion and magic were esoteric and restricted activities, the secrets of which were privy to only a few. The idea of putting precise knowledge of the future into the hands of anyone would have been anathematical.

 

Not only are you arguing for something for which there is no evidence, you are arguing against the entire grain of Pharaonic Egyptian culture. Furthermore you clearly know nothing about the subject, so I would suggest you keep quiet with such ahistorical nonsense in future. You insult the term theory by associating it with such gibberish.

[jonathan7]

So you all know DI is actually an Egyptologist with a rather prestigious university, so you may want to listen to him...

 

Aside from that I think that Star Wars was really thought of by the first great Emporer of China (Qin Shi Huang), and George Lucas used his psychic abilities to steal these ideas from the dead body of Qin Shi Huang... This can neither be proven nor disproven :|

[LordOfTheFish]

I agree with InSidious, you would be best to leave those things alone. When it come down to it they are simply another form of witch craft.

[Mandalore The Shadow]

Alright I was wrong and I will go along but in return You could be a little less insulting with correcting people

 

EDIT:

 

I agree with InSidious, you would be best to leave those things alone. When it come down to it they are simply another form of witch craft.

 

And are you demeaning Witchcraft?

[Darth InSidious]

Alright I was wrong and I will go along but in return You could be a little less insulting with correcting people

And you could talk a great deal less nonsense.

[Sabretooth]

Aside from that I think that Star Wars was really thought of by the first great Emporer of China (Qin Shi Huang), and George Lucas used his psychic abilities to steal these ideas from the dead body of Qin Shi Huang... This can neither be proven nor disproven :|

 

Sweet Jesus, that means the terracotta army is actually the clone army that became the stormtroopers! And the Great Wall- or should I say, the DEATH WALL. And the Mongol Invasion is equivalent of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion in that they were both unbearably horrible.

 

IT IS ALL MAKING SO MUCH SENSE

[LordOfTheFish]

Alright I was wrong and I will go along but in return You could be a little less insulting with correcting people

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

And are you demeaning Witchcraft?

 

Actually, yes.

 

I am strongly against it. Some people think the basic stuff is cool, tarrot cards, ouija boards etc. But, higher up the things witches and wizards alike do are not good, not good at all.

 

That is entirely my opinion though, you don't have to believe it, and I wont hold it against you if you choose not to.

[Mandalore The Shadow]

@DarthInsidious: Deal

 

@LordOfTheFish: I happen to "Believe it"

[LordOfTheFish]

^And that's fine. Oh don't get me wrong I believe that the stuff exist, and works, but I don't not however believe in associating myself with such matters.

[Arcesious]

You know, you can do this stuff if you like, but if you base your decisions in life on them, then I think you're being sorely naive. Say you get a tarot card prediction that means that someone you are very close to is going to die soon, or something like that.

 

What are you going to do? Try to protect everyone you're closest to in some paranoid manner? What if a prediction tells you that you'll be the luckiest person in the world for a week? Are you going to go spend all your money in the lottery? Will you consider every single 'lucky' thing that happens to you as 'proof' that the prediction came true? If you come out of a car accident unharmed during said week, will you think that that's proof of it, ignoring the fact that your car, unluckily, is trashed and irreparable?

 

What if you play a game of Yahtzee in the week you're predicted to be lucky? Say you get a bunch of horrible rolls. Will you think: "Oh those were just flukes, it doesn't disprove my luckiness."? If you don't win first place in the game, but get second to last place, will you think of that as proof that the prediction is true, in that you haven't lost? (Even though you didn't win?)

 

Don't let superstition-based predictions run your life. (If you already don't, then good for you! )

 

You could convince yourself to think: "Oh Arcesious doesn't know what he's talking about. He's never tried it himself. He doesn't know its true like how I do. He hasn't experienced what I've experienced. He just doesn't understand. He doesn't 'get it' like I do. It works. i've seen it work. He hasn't. I'm not like those other people who take a naive approach to it. I'm different because I take a reasonable approach to it all, etc, etc"

 

However you spin it, it all comes down to one thing: **** happens.

[Ping]

I honestly believe that tarot cards are a load of crap. They don't really do anything, as it's all up to chance, rather then what's in your future. And besides, the future isn't set in stone, so anything can happen, no matter what the cards say.

 

I am strongly against it. Some people think the basic stuff is cool, tarrot cards, ouija boards etc. But, higher up the things witches and wizards alike do are not good, not good at all.

 

I really don't think this would fall in the witchcraft category, as it's a load of mumbo jumbo, and whatever your card result is will be completely random.

[Mandalore The Shadow]

I guess no one is going to came to any agreements at least my opinion hasn't been changed