History of the sith: Very Interesting

[adamqd]

And it was the latter that built the Trayus Academy.

 

It was Affiliated with Adas' Sith therefore must be the Former, although it makes no sense whatsoever as it is mentioned in a footnote somewhere and not explained.

[Sir Vougalot]

It wasn't affiliated with Adas' Sith! That was my whole point! It was built by the Sith who departed from known space after the Great Hyperspace War, and who will return in The Old Republic.

 

Edit:

There's just one problem: The Sith Empire was already practically defunct as a military power by the end of TSL. There isn't a "false" Sith Empire for the "true" Sith to go after.

 

Yeah, I suppose you're right. Still, I'm sure there could have been a way around it. The Sith Order itself never ceased to exist. Maybe they would have become a formidable fighting force once again by the time of The Old Republic, to the point where they could have stood up to the "true Sith."

 

It's all moot now, anyway.

[adamqd]

It wasn't affiliated with Adas' Sith!.

 

I'm just saying it is mentioned in either sourcebooks or the defunct Chronicles (Obsidian website) That it was affiliated with Adas, I actually couldn't care less as the Trayus level is probably my least favorite level on the game hehe.

[Sir Vougalot]

It was? Man, I didn't know that! I would have liked to have seen these references as they would have pretty much been exactly what my old theory proposed. If only I had known how spot-on I was! Seriously didn't think my theory was what Obsidian had in mind, but . . . I am truly shocked that it was!

 

And now LucasArts has taken that great idea and dumbed it down to something else entirely.

[TKA-001]

I've read Chronicles at least twice, and I can't find any mention of Adas in there.

[Sir Vougalot]

Ah, thought so.

 

See? I do know what I'm talking about.

[Te Darasuum Mandalor]

would Revan's men be considered part of "The True Sith"

[ForeverNight]

Having never read any of the chronicals, I'm going to make an unqualified guess at NO as I'm guessing that "True Sith" refer to those of the Sith Specie/Empire, of which none of Revan's men belonged.

[adamqd]

I've read Chronicles at least twice, and I can't find any mention of Adas in there.

 

Ah, thought so.

 

See? I do know what I'm talking about.

 

I didn't want to resort to rummaging through my vast archive, and taking pictures of my Star Wars Books, but when people take 1 of my 3 possible sources and Close the case on me, more investigations are in Order , and please remember, I never said Adas Built Trayus by hand Lol, merely that it, and the world it was built on, were affiliated with Adas and the Sith long before Half-Breeds and Dark Jedi...

 

If you cant make it out it says "The Sith King Adas Routed the Invaders, then used their Captured Starships to Reach Ziost, Malachor and Tund". ~ Star Wars: The Essential Atlas

[Sir Vougalot]

Um, okay, cool, but that isn't what everyone here is saying. We were under the impression that you were implying that it was Adas' followers who built the Trayus Academy, and we were trying to tell you that is was the post-Great-Hyperspace-War splinter group whom Kreia dubs the "true Sith" that built it. If if that wasn't your point, then cool. You've supplied us with some information that I was not aware of.

 

Also, that is some interesting information on the First Great Schism. I knew that the war ended with the death of Xendor on Columus, but I didn't know that Coruscant and Brentaal were involved in the war. I also wasn't aware that the Sith of Korriban once staved off the Killiks.

 

What book is that? That looks like one of the newer source books, like The New Essential Chronology, Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force, or The Essential Atlas; but I've read all of those and do not recall coming across that information. It could be that I just forgot.

 

(As an aside, why does everyone insist on capitalizing the T in "true" when speaking of the "true Sith" when it is not capitalized in Kreia's dialogue in the game, and I've continuously refrained from capitalizing it here? Subliminal messages, people! )

[adamqd]

Um, okay, cool, but that isn't what everyone here is saying. We were under the impression that you were implying that it was Adas' followers who built the Trayus Academy, and we were trying to tell you that is was the post-Great-Hyperspace-War splinter group whom Kreia dubs the "true Sith" that built it.

 

I think its just You bud, its only me and you discussing it and I quite clearly am not implying what you say, If you check back to my posts I never actually say he built it, just that Malachor and Trayus has a longer history, I never mentioned your Splinter Group either, just Adas and "Affiliation" Now thats cleared up forever, Yes, the book is the Essential atlas

[Darth_Sasuna]

but i got to get one thing right isnt it said that revan was probally the most powerful sith ever and the closest to ever COMPLETELY destroying the republic AND jedi not like sidious who had jedi alive and had a rebellion lol, is it not though he wasa genious and the strongest and very persuasive that is how he did so well it is said if he would have not been turned on by malak he would have won the war within months right? that is what i read cant remember were though it was.

[sarpedon2]

I seem a bit bothered by the idea that the True Sith were behind Revan's discovery of the Star Map. Didn't Revan discover the Star Map after the Mandalorian wars, which during so, he discovered Malachor V, submitted himself to the dark side and learnt of the existence of the True Sith. Because ever since TOR, it seems the True Sith were responsible for nearly every major event.

[Darth GSJ]

<<The 1st Sith Empire 5,000 BBY: The first kingdom of the Sith eventually conquered other planets such as Ziost, Malachor, and Raxus Prime creating a large Sith Empire ruled through brutality and fear. They challenged the republic many times and were victorious. It seemed as long as these Sith inhabited known space, they would be victorious. Then came civil war. The two friends Naga Saddow and Ludo Kressh became the next rulers of the Sith but then both wished for absolute control. Ludo Kressh betrayed his master and launched civil war upon the Empire. After Naga Saddow taught Ludo a lesson, he launched a campaign on the republic and the Jedi only to be defeated. Humiliated that his Empire could be defeated by the "corrupt" jedi, Saddow retreated to Yavin 4 where it is said he died. Though some say he left to go build an army in the outer regions. Several well known rulers are Ludo kressh, Naga Saddow, and Freedon Nadd.

 

Very interesting thread and one I'm very passionate about. I would not consider Freedon Nadd part of the "Original Sith Empire" or part of the original succesion of Dark Lords who ruled from Ziost and Korriban. He assumed the mantle of Dark Lord by apprenticing under Sadow, then killing him, hundreds of years after the full collapse of the Empire.

 

Nadd is a very interesting person in the Sith annals, he never tried to reconstitute the Sith order during his life and was content ruling over Onderon, being worshipped as a god, and letting the old Sith Culture die. It is for these reasons that I would classify him as the father of the new Movement inherited by Exaar Kunn, and then eventually reinvigorated by Revan and Malak and destroyed following the rise and fall of the Sith Triumvirate.

 

BTW I have a very very very indepth History of the Sith I compiled from Wookiepedia and other sources if anyone would like to see it send me a message.

 

Having never read any of the chronicals, I'm going to make an unqualified guess at NO as I'm guessing that "True Sith" refer to those of the Sith Specie/Empire, of which none of Revan's men belonged.

 

The True Sith are a group of descendants that survived the Great Hyperspace War which destroyed the original Sith Empire.

 

When the Republic destroyed the original Sith Empire during the Great Hyperspace War, the remaining Sith scattered and spread into deep space. Naga Sadow beleived himself and those who followed him to Yavin IV to be the last surviving remnants.

 

Those who followed him to Yavin would slowly be absorbed into the local culture on Yavin and with Sadow placing himself in long periods of stasis the old Sith cutlure died a slow death.

 

Eventually Freedon Nadd would awaken Naga Sadow, train under him then kill him and seize control of the mantle of Dark Lord. When Sadow died, it was widely believed that the "original Sith" had finally become extinct.

 

However the "True Sith" were a group that had managed to survive and thrive for a milienia being led by a succesion of Dark Lords who could trace their ancestry back to the Original Sith Empire.

 

They would prove a serious threat that would eventually invade the republic several centuries after the events of Kotor I and Kotor II.

[Darth Ken0bi]

I seem a bit bothered by the idea that the True Sith were behind Revan's discovery of the Star Map. Didn't Revan discover the Star Map after the Mandalorian wars, which during so, he discovered Malachor V, submitted himself to the dark side and learnt of the existence of the True Sith. Because ever since TOR, it seems the True Sith were responsible for nearly every major event.

 

I believe, and please correct me if I am incorrect, that Revan never really invaded the Republic for the same reasons as the "True Sith" intended.

 

During the Mandalorian Wars, he found Malachor V and learned the teachings of the Sith from the Academy there to better battle against the Mandalorians. Revan and Malak spread the teachings of the Sith through the ranks of the Republic fleet they commanded. After that they discovered the "True Sith" and were then told to invade the Republic for their arrival, and Revan obliged.

 

But he was really strengthening the Republic for War against this threat he found in the Unknown Regions. He eliminated people and Senators that would be a problem for his plans, he captured republic shipyards or bypassed them. He wanted the keep the infrastructure of the republic intact so they could better deal with this "Invasion" that was going to occur. He WOULD of succeeded if Malak was not such a fool and betrayed him during Revan's encounter with Bastila Shan.

[Darth GSJ]

I believe, and please correct me if I am incorrect, that Revan never really invaded the Republic for the same reasons as the "True Sith" intended.

 

Yep yup. It is strongly suggested that Revan fell of his own choice (knowingly embraced the Darkside) in order to protect the Republic. Unfortunately the corrupting power of the Darkside and the Star Forge proved too overwhelming for Revan and though he still strove to protect the Republic, towards the end of his reign he became little different than the Sith Lords of old.

 

Actually when you think of it, it's rather fortuitous that Revan was betrayed by Malak. It allowed him time to free himself from the domination of the Darkside, and with the help of Bastila (cannon version) he was able to awaken to the destruction he unleashed and ultimately redeem himself.

[Knight Of Honor]

Yep yup. It is strongly suggested that Revan fell of his own choice (knowingly embraced the Darkside) in order to protect the Republic. Unfortunately the corrupting power of the Darkside and the Star Forge proved too overwhelming for Revan and though he still strove to protect the Republic, towards the end of his reign he became little different than the Sith Lords of old.

 

Actually when you think of it, it's rather fortuitous that Revan was betrayed by Malak. It allowed him time to free himself from the domination of the Darkside, and with the help of Bastila (cannon version) he was able to awaken to the destruction he unleashed and ultimately redeem himself.

 

Great insight! This is exactly the way i see it as well. Bastila and the Jedi gave Revan a second chance.

[Seikan]

But there is still the possibility that Revan havent' fall to the darks side corruption, even with the star forge.

 

Kreia said that Revan NEVER fall, and that he has always been himself, so maybe, if Malak haven't betrayed him, he would been able to make a strong empire and prepare it to foght the true siths. The republic in TSL is crumbling, because of the jedi civil war, and the katarr events, the siths, all of that, and also the incidents caused by malak.

 

So if Revan really never fell into the dark side, Malak really screwed up everything, so when Revan recovers the memories about the true siths, it's too late for his old plans, so he asked canderous, to unite the mandalorians to help against the siths, and carth too, bla bla, to prepare the republic against the true siths. After this he leave to or try to stop himself the true siths, knowing that if he fails his companions would be preparing the republic, or he tries to retard them, to let more time to the republic.

 

That's how i see it ^^

[S_W_LeGenD]

The New Sith Empire 3,970 BBY: After the Mandalorian Wars, the Revanchist returned to Dantooine with his friend Alek where they stmbled upon an ancient temple where they found a Star Map. They were told where to find this map by the remnents of the first Sith Empire in the outer regions. They were told to serve as a Vanguard for them. This Star Map led to many more where they found the Star Forge, a Rakatan war devise they built an Empire out of. They built an Entire Armada and using the troops and Dark Jedi given to them by the Sith Emperor, they corrupted many republic soldiers and eventually the Jedi. The first to join were the remnent forces from Exar Kun and Revan's old Master, Darth Traya and her two apprentices Nihilus and Lucien Draay AKA Darth Sion. The three however believed that Revan was ruling his "Empire" in a different manner than the Emperor wished, so she broke away and formed the Sith Triumverite and captured Malachor from Revan. Revan was however defeated by his master and the Jedi and was captured. The Empire finally fell however when Revan attacked the Star Forge, Malak's last place of refuge and destroyed it along with him. Revan went into the outer regions to try and stop the True Sith. The two rulers, of course, are Darth Revan and Darth Malak.

Here is a more correct interpretation: A powerful Jedi (known as Revan) started the Revanchist movement to help the Republic defeat the Mandalorians. During the ongoing conflict (The Mandalorian Wars), Revan learned about the significance of a planet Malachor V and the taboo it presented to the Mandalorians. Revan visited this planet and got exposure to vast amounts of the Sith Lore. He also learned about the existence of the True Sith there. After the conclusion of the Mandalorian Wars, Revan and Malak in pursuit of remnants of the Mandalorians in the unknown regions met the Sith Emperor (leader of the True Sith) in Dromund Kass. The Emperor persuaded them to prepare for invasion of the Republic by Sith. The fall of Revan and Malak to the dark side was now complete. The two returned as Master and Apprentice. However, their ambitions grew as they got nearer to acquisition of an ancient entity of great power - The Star Forge. Both Revan and Malak now envisioned their own Sith Empire. Revan specially planned to use the combined power of the Republic (under his command with its infrastructure intact) and the Star Forge to counter the threat posed by the Sith Emperor. In short: The Revan was preparing to challenge the Sith Emperor. To achieve his aims, Revan established a Sith Empire of his own and initiated Jedi Civil War to conquer the Republic. However, Darth Malak shattered his hopes by betraying him and got the chance to carry out his own ambitions. Unbeknownst to him, Revan survived and ended Malak's quest to rule the Galaxy by killing him. The Sith Empire crumbled and Star Forge was destroyed. Revan was now hailed as a legend and a great Jedi hero. However, from the ashes, Sith Triumvirate was born.

 

Sidenote: Keep in mind that Kriea became a Sith Lord after the conclusion of the Jedi Civil War and she formed Sith Triumvirate with assistance from Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus, who at one time were her apprentices. However, she was betrayed and was instrumental in downfall of the other two Sith Lords. Ironically! Her new apprentice - The Jedi Exile - killed her too.

[Te Darasuum Mandalor]

If Revan never fell to the darkside, why do they call him Darth Revan? And why did he have a red lightsaber? And why did he kill millions? And why was he at the head of a massive fleet ready to conquer the republic?

[Seikan]

Well, the red lightsabers, can be used by any one there is not any kind of force restriction.

After this, The mandalorians were worst butchers than Revan, and for example the orst thing Revan seems to have done, is Telos, and It's Malak who ordered the attack, you can easily see, that Revan wasn't as evil as Malak.

He was at the head of a massive armada to conquer the republic, without destroying military infrastructures, without big slaughters like the mandalorians and Malak, and then he can enforce the republic to prepare them against the real Sith Empire (Haven't you ever hear what canderous said in K1, and haven't you ever talked with kreia or goto?).

[Te Darasuum Mandalor]

Which brings us to another portion of my reports.

 

 

Who is the Sith Emperor? Here are some theories.

 

 

He is one of the Ancient Sith such as Ajunta Pal or Naga Sadow. Whoever he is, disappeared into the outer regions to raise an army.

 

It is a mantle passed down from generation to generation

 

 

Darth Krayt was the last true Sith, maybe he is the Sith Emperor and decided that he would be the last one to try and attempt to conquer

 

 

Darth Nihilus could be him, and he disapeared on the deck of his ship and was transported back to Drommund Kaas

 

(Or maybe Nihilus is like the Eye of Sauron, and is not a physical form, but instead the eyes and ears of the emperor)

 

(Or, he could very well be a being similar to the thought bomb, a living creature in human form representing all the lost souls killed by the mass shaddow generator on Malachor)

 

 

(He could very well be a simple bum in a mask)

 

 

Lastly, the Sith Emperor could be.........The Sith Emperor! A puppet master whose name is not known.

[HdVaderII]

Darth Krayt was the last true Sith, maybe he is the Sith Emperor and decided that he would be the last one to try and attempt to conquer

 

This doesn't make any sense, considering that Krayt was in fact a Jedi turned bad, trained by Ki-Adi-Mundi about 3,000 years after the time period of this game.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Krayt

 

That should clear up any confusion.

[Darth Avlectus]

Which brings us to another portion of my reports.

 

 

Who is the Sith Emperor? Here are some theories.

 

 

He is one of the Ancient Sith such as Ajunta Pal or Naga Sadow. Whoever he is, disappeared into the outer regions to raise an army.

 

About that time period but he is some other one of the original sith lords that got away.

 

 

It is a mantle passed down from generation to generation

Possibly...but I thought he had lived all this time?

 

Darth Krayt was the last true Sith, maybe he is the Sith Emperor and decided that he would be the last one to try and attempt to conquer

I think I'll just leave it to HDvader's post above. Wookieepedia page.

 

 

Darth Nihilus could be him, and he disapeared on the deck of his ship and was transported back to Drommund Kaas

 

I can't really say. Evidence would suggest not. While I'll admit much is unknown about him, his limitations are fairly clear at this point. I actually think his power was linked to the Exile through the force like he was feeding off an exploit of the "wound" that was connected with her own power. When he tried to absorb her power it was like the power drained out of him instead. While his power may have rivaled that of the ancient sith, he did not control it but rather it controlled him.

 

 

(Or maybe Nihilus is like the Eye of Sauron, and is not a physical form, but instead the eyes and ears of the emperor)

Maybe, but I don't think so. See, in lore of magic and stuff like that, there have been sorcerers that similarly had lost their physical form due to their overuse of magic. So Nihilus' concept is actually based off of something fairly common in RP and magic or fantasy lore.

 

One who knew how to look for such things would say he is a growing shadow or silhouette of death when looking at him through the force, continuously consuming more and more of it. That's pretty much all there is out there on him. We could speculate all day but it would go nowhere.

So based off what we're given, it'd be pretty much impossible to see anything through him or with him by using him that way.

 

(Or, he could very well be a being similar to the thought bomb, a living creature in human form representing all the lost souls killed by the mass shaddow generator on Malachor)

 

That's an interesting theory. Like all that death, torment, and agony whipped and spun into shape, and one "nobody" man who physically survived it ended up becoming one with that atrocity through the force. This one possibly could work, just my opinion.

 

(He could very well be a simple bum in a mask)

That's the indication thus far which I am afraid we're stuck with.

 

Lastly, the Sith Emperor could be.........The Sith Emperor! A puppet master whose name is not known.

Probably.

[TKA-001]

Which brings us to another portion of my reports.

 

 

Who is the Sith Emperor? Here are some theories.

 

 

He is one of the Ancient Sith such as Ajunta Pal or Naga Sadow. Whoever he is, disappeared into the outer regions to raise an army.

 

It is a mantle passed down from generation to generation

 

 

Darth Krayt was the last true Sith, maybe he is the Sith Emperor and decided that he would be the last one to try and attempt to conquer

 

 

Darth Nihilus could be him, and he disapeared on the deck of his ship and was transported back to Drommund Kaas

 

(Or maybe Nihilus is like the Eye of Sauron, and is not a physical form, but instead the eyes and ears of the emperor)

 

(Or, he could very well be a being similar to the thought bomb, a living creature in human form representing all the lost souls killed by the mass shaddow generator on Malachor)

 

Lastly, the Sith Emperor could be.........The Sith Emperor! A puppet master whose name is not known.

What?

 

No way.