Why I won't be playing TOR.

[Deft Aklin]

I consider it sort of turn based as in everything has a world cool down and it does.. You can't just beat on a button and kill mobs with a million saber slashes..

 

The World cool down basically makes it so both you have a chance to hit the enemy, and the enemy has a chance to hit you..

 

I fail to see why you would say that I am incorrect and offer no explination as to why?? I suppose your claim is that unless it is Pokemon it isn't turn based?? Is it possible maybe if other games can operate on a different mechanic and still be considered turn based?? Try not to be so rigid in your views..

 

It is sorta real time.. Again except for the global cool downs.. So how does Real time/turn based feel.. Since that happens to be the prefered description for TOR..

 

WOW as I said would also fall into that catagory.. So?? Where exacltly was I wrong??

 

Before you go say someone is wrong.. Please read the reason why they said what they said and then offer an alternative.. I qualified my reasoning.. You should do the same..

Then by your definition, FPS games are turn based. Since each weapon is assigned a specific cooldown to prevent multiple shots being fired at once. (Yes I am talking about milliseconds here, but it's a cooldown) Most of the cooldowns you speak of are a second or so. The major abilities will have 30-60 second cooldowns to prevent spamming of an overpowering ability. For instance, shields, escape mechanics, crowd control. That doesn't make it turn based. Turn based, by definition, your opponent can't do anything until you've finished your turn and vice versa.

[MajikMyst]

Then by your definition, FPS games are turn based. Since each weapon is assigned a specific cooldown to prevent multiple shots being fired at once. (Yes I am talking about milliseconds here, but it's a cooldown) Most of the cooldowns you speak of are a second or so. The major abilities will have 30-60 second cooldowns to prevent spamming of an overpowering ability. For instance, shields, escape mechanics, crowd control. That doesn't make it turn based. Turn based, by definition, your opponent can't do anything until you've finished your turn and vice versa.

 

Not at all.. Rocket spam for the win..

 

Your nit picking.. No FPS has a global cool down.. You don't fire one weapon and have all your weapons or skills go on cool down.. Come on now.. Be serious here.. Depending on the game, and depending on the weapon, some have no cool downs at all.. In many FPS games where a machine gun type weapon is used, spray and pray is the tactic of choice.. No cool down there..

 

Your problem is that you are stuck on what a turn based game should be.. The last true or strict turn based game I played was Final Fantasy.. Not sure what number.. But it was an early one..

 

The turn base here in todays MMO is basically there for the server..

 

Think Diablo 2 for a minute.. Depending on what your cast time was, most majic spells had no cool down at all.. Necro's could spam bone spirit, Amazons could spam their arrows.. That was not a turn based game.. You literally could kill someone simply by shooting faster than them.. And for some that hacked their own gear.. Cast time was down to nothing.. You should have seen the matches on open Battle Net.. Where you could hack your toons..

 

Turn base doesn't just mean.. You do something and then you wait for your opponent to do something before you can do something again.. The global cool down keeps from being a spam fest and spray and pray.. It allows both players to execute a skill, and have the server register that skill.. Hence the Real time/Turn based.. No.. It isn't a strict hardcore turn based game.. But it is still considered a turn based game.. An RT/TB if you will..

 

But you can call it whatever you want.. It really doesn't matter..

[Lynk Former]

Anyway... we'll let the people who stumble on to this thread and read that little debate choose for themselves who is right and who is simply making s*** up because they don't want to accept that they're wrong.

 

I'm sure people can make up their own minds.

[Deft Aklin]

Not at all.. Rocket spam for the win..

 

Your nit picking.. No FPS has a global cool down.. You don't fire one weapon and have all your weapons or skills go on cool down.. Come on now.. Be serious here.. Depending on the game, and depending on the weapon, some have no cool downs at all.. In many FPS games where a machine gun type weapon is used, spray and pray is the tactic of choice.. No cool down there..

 

Your problem is that you are stuck on what a turn based game should be.. The last true or strict turn based game I played was Final Fantasy.. Not sure what number.. But it was an early one..

 

The turn base here in todays MMO is basically there for the server..

 

Think Diablo 2 for a minute.. Depending on what your cast time was, most majic spells had no cool down at all.. Necro's could spam bone spirit, Amazons could spam their arrows.. That was not a turn based game.. You literally could kill someone simply by shooting faster than them.. And for some that hacked their own gear.. Cast time was down to nothing.. You should have seen the matches on open Battle Net.. Where you could hack your toons..

 

Turn base doesn't just mean.. You do something and then you wait for your opponent to do something before you can do something again.. The global cool down keeps from being a spam fest and spray and pray.. It allows both players to execute a skill, and have the server register that skill.. Hence the Real time/Turn based.. No.. It isn't a strict hardcore turn based game.. But it is still considered a turn based game.. An RT/TB if you will..

 

But you can call it whatever you want.. It really doesn't matter..

So, name an MMO that doesn't actually have a global cooldown. Heck, even the FPS games you claim that don't, do... it's called weapon swap animation time. This is how the devs balance weapons for FPS. They create a complicated formula that basically compares the following characteristics of a weapon to ensure balance:

Fire Rate, Damage, Range, Reload Time, Rounds/Clip, Accuracy etc. are all balanced out. Reload time is used as a balancing factor to impede weapons with large clips or high damage output, to compensate for the weapons with smaller clips to have faster reload times to ensure equal amounts of downtime is spent to cause the same amount of damage. The higher the damage dealt, the longer the time between shots (fire rate). The longer the range, the smaller the clip etc. All of these are built in global cooldowns.

 

To be honest, I think most of the argument in this thread is in regards to stating it's like every MMO and that it's turn based. Apparently we all have different definitions of turn based, and to compare MMOs is NEVER about turn basis, as the global cooldown you're talking about is built into EVERY MMO to create opportunity, not to perform actions, but to balance. Balance is not possible when the ONLY balancing factor is the speed of the human hand. To be quite frank, if you don't like an MMO because it's like every other MMO, then you actually just don't like MMOs... so why are you looking at SWTOR in the first place?

[Zakhodit]

To be quite frank, if you don't like an MMO because it's like every other MMO, then you actually just don't like MMOs... so why are you looking at SWTOR in the first place?

 

This right here is the true topic of this thread.

 

The OP baffles me, and MajikMyst has talked himself into so many circles that I'm sure crops in Iowa have been damaged.

 

I hate cottage cheese. But I don't go onto the Cottage Cheese forums and explain to everyone there why it's such a horrible food and it should never be eaten. Nor do I debate what cottage cheese actually is or isn't.

 

May I suggest that if you don't like MMO's, TOR, or have liberal views on what "turn based" really means, that you take such thoughts to a different forum?

 

Your nit picking..

 

You're. As in "you are". "Your" denotes ownership.

 

Now that's nit picking!

[Snarils]

I don't understand the complaint about the subscription fee. 15 bucks.. really is not a lot for what you get in return.

 

If you go see one movie at a theatre.. you spend at least that much for 2 hours of entertainment and like someone else has pointed out.. new games for consoles are expensive and come out frequently. I know right now my sons have a few on their lists.. Saints Row 3, the next Halo game and a few others.. I will easily spend hundreds of dollars on getting those games for my kids.. then 3 months later.. they will want some other new game that retails at 60 bucks. not to mention the XBOX Live subscription (which I am happy to pay for my boys).. is 12 bucks a month and is needed to play the games online.

 

So to me, anyone complaining about the 15 bucks a month is using it as an excuse to not like the game.. because they don't have an income.

 

As far as graphics being dated... hahaha... you cannot judge this game by screenshots or the small videos you have seen. The environments, character and mob detail are some of the best I've seen and yes, I have experienced them first hand. Space (while on Rails...) is really very visually appealing. the class quests, the companions, instances are all very unique to this game and keep me engaged.

 

This game is very much at your own pace. There are some group quests sprinkled in here and there, but these quests are not required to complete in order to progress. your companion is enough to keep you solo.. as much as you want. some companions heal.. others tank while others are DPS. they are all very helpful. such as the inquisitor, have the tank companion couldn't be better. You can upgrade your companions equipment the same as you do your own character.

[VeniVidiVicous]

This right here is the true topic of this thread.

 

The OP baffles me, and MajikMyst has talked himself into so many circles that I'm sure crops in Iowa have been damaged.

 

I hate cottage cheese. But I don't go onto the Cottage Cheese forums and explain to everyone there why it's such a horrible food and it should never be eaten. Nor do I debate what cottage cheese actually is or isn't.

 

May I suggest that if you don't like MMO's, TOR, or have liberal views on what "turn based" really means, that you take such thoughts to a different forum?

 

Is it really so baffling to want to see an mmorpg's combat system go in a somewhat different direction??

As I previously stated since Bioware are the company that brought us the Mass Effect series, the best combat system i've played in an rpg thus far, I was hoping that their mmo was going to be the first to break that mold. Clearly they're taking the safe,standard mmorpg combat system instead which is fine just not my own cup of tea.

 

I still think that the cartoonish look of the characters takes away from the game which imo has nothing to do with graphic limitations for an mmo.

[Snarils]

Good News!

 

You are not required to play!!

 

[Hallucination]

I hate cottage cheese. But I don't go onto the Cottage Cheese forums and explain to everyone there why it's such a horrible food and it should never be eaten. Nor do I debate what cottage cheese actually is or isn't.

I don't mean to derail this thread, but I'm pretty sure the question we're all asking ourselves now is: "Are there really cottage cheese forums?"

[Darth Avlectus]

Cottage cheese? How about Havarti? Or goat cheese? Bree? Porvolone? Swiss? Cheddar?

 

Good News!

 

You are not required to play!!

 

 

Awesome post. (Though I must confess my interest in this game, never really having played an mmo, has risen from the initial onset. Probably out of interest more of what will happen in terms of storyline.)

 

I have a question: Who gives a $#*% about bigfoot?

[Lynk Former]

I remember at first when TOR was announced my position was that I'd never end up playing this game ever because it was an MMO.

 

That kind of changed as I started to get more info about the Trooper class and thought "hey, it might be fun to play as a Trooper in this type of game"... the problem I had to face from there was that I had 0 experience with any type of MMO. That led me to play some Lord of the Rings Online for about a month and a half and I kind of got the jist of what an MMO is and what's involved. Was pretty entertaining but I'm not really that into The Lord of the Rings so after that little experience I uninstalled it lol.

 

I play a hell of a lot of other types of games and many other types of RPGs so TOR will be my first proper MMO experience... in terms of whether BioWare has been able to capture the percentage of people who don't normally play MMOs with this game... they certainly got me with TOR.

[Darth Avlectus]

I figure it like this: if they cancelled Obsidian working on KOTOR3, they simply aren't interested. Even if they never built the MMO. (Our best bet for that I suppose is Logan23.)

 

All reservations aside, if this fails...well, I don't believe anyone will be making SW games anymore for both financial reasons and LA saving its own face.

 

So swallowing my pride, dealing in reality and not just the way I'd like things to be,

my interest is stirring because I want to see if my prediction about Revan's "rebirth" is correct. However it is unlikely I will have a new machine built in time to be a frontrunner to be first to find out the truth.

 

So my secondary interests would be

1) To see what has been done in general.

2) To live a main role in the SW universe. (Since Revan and the Exile are now relegated as just another part of the story)

3) possibly for the interaction.

 

The biggest influence:

Two friends of mine in real life are definitely going to get this game. One is not a SW buff whatsoever but as just a casual gamer is absolutely smitten with BioWare's recent games enough that he would do this game on principle alone. (Bioware, you can pat yourself on the back!)

The other is a SW buff, however is more just an avid online gamer than anything else.

Both have told me they really want me to play along with them.

 

If that isn't enough, here is some straw that is breaking the camel's back:

Both have separately even offered, if I preorder, to throw down on a Collector's Edition copy at best buy just for me if it meant I would play this with them.

[Jae Onasi]

I hate cottage cheese. But I don't go onto the Cottage Cheese forums and explain to everyone there why it's such a horrible food and it should never be eaten. Nor do I debate what cottage cheese actually is or isn't.

 

 

@Hallucination: Here you go, the I Love Cottage Cheese forum.

 

 

BTW, TOR beta is serious amounts of fun.

[Hallucination]

BTW, TOR beta is serious amounts of fun.

You know, it could be said that no amount of fun is serious.

 

And thanks for the link, time tell those people that fresh cheeses are for jerks.

[Jae Onasi]

You know, it could be said that no amount of fun is serious.

Oh, well, in that case, it's a hell of a lot of fun.

 

And thanks for the link, time tell those people that fresh cheeses are for jerks.

iknorite? Sharp cheddar ftw!

[Blix]

If online play were free and I only had to deal with paying for the initial game itself plus future DLC/expansions then I wouldn't have an issue with TOR but hence that is the reason why I have never warmed up to MMO/MMORPGS ever since FFXI.

[Zeami]

So i've been debating to myself whether to write this thread for a while and a recent post I read in a topic influenced me to express my opinions on TOR, so here goes:

 

 

 

i can assure you this was not my initial reaction.

 

After seeing the decieved trailer. I was thinking "OMG, they're going to continue Kotor through this game! This could be truely epic, this could actually be the first mmo that I can actually get into!"

 

You see I had just finished the first Mass Effect and loved it. It was an immersive experience that I really enjoyed but most importantly (to me) it was the first rpg I had played where I liked the combat system. You see i've always wanted a game with the character customisation of the kotor games without the normal rpg combat system.

 

So I was thinking something close to the mass effect combat system mixed with the SW:Kotor setting in an mmo might just sell me.

 

I presumed seeing as it was a mmo and a continuation of kotor that they wouldn't want anything too taxing on pc's in terms of graphics so I assumed they go with the look and style of the previous 2 games. (which I also happen to like)

 

Then it happened..

 

I saw a gameplay video. Not only did they not incorporate a new combat system for the mmo genre, they went a completely different direction for the visuals of the game.

 

The characters in this game look a lot like WoW characters to me. So anychance of me getting immersed into the game (and my potential character or characters) was gone. I always liked how the previous games looked and it genuinely surprised me that they mirrored WoW with the aesthetics here.

 

 

 

As far as Revan and Exile goes I knew this was going to be based around 300 years after TSL so I assumed they be dead and not too relevant to the player's experience in this game.

There are a few threads on canon/storylines within TOR and how they relate to the previous installments so I won't touch on it too much here.

 

I will say this though when I first heard about this I raced to my computer to find out more about this game but i've already found out enough about this game to know it won't be my cup of tea.

 

As a closing point, I think this game truely had the potential to break through a lot of the things that prevent certain gamers from playing mmo's. Unfortunatly this game will not be that genre-altering title I was hoping for.

 

If any of ye have different reasons for wanting to (or not wanting to) play the game i'd be intrested to hear it?

 

Snipped. Kinda glad there's no chance we get stuck playing together.

 

Cut out the personal attacks in future, please. - Astor.

[Deft Aklin]

Is it really so baffling to want to see an mmorpg's combat system go in a somewhat different direction??

As I previously stated since Bioware are the company that brought us the Mass Effect series, the best combat system i've played in an rpg thus far, I was hoping that their mmo was going to be the first to break that mold. Clearly they're taking the safe,standard mmorpg combat system instead which is fine just not my own cup of tea.

 

I still think that the cartoonish look of the characters takes away from the game which imo has nothing to do with graphic limitations for an mmo.

At no point did Bioware say they were redesigning the MMO combat system, except to say they were going to choreograph it as opposed to having standard animations. Honestly though, how could they redesign the combat system for an MMO and keep it competitive, fair and balanced?

 

As far as graphics, if you want graphics, play an FPS or RPG. MMOs are designed so millions of players on outdated PCs can all share an experience together. Graphics are ALWAYS toned down to allow for older dual cores and dated GPUs to be able to play the game and enable more people to play. In particular, those that don't own gaming rigs, the crowd that has never played an MMO before and is playing now because it's Star Wars and they were too young for SWG.

[Ascended_Mike]

Firstly: To judge a game based on it's graphics is just ridiculous.

I honestly feel like every MMO that has tried realistic graphics has just faded away since then.

 

WoW's graphics are cartoony... yes. And many computers can run WoW with little to no effort. And this is one of the many reasons WoW was so successful. TOR is worth a try, shunning it even before its release based on what you've read and videos you've seen is just beyond me.

 

If you like star wars and you like MMOs, you should atleast try it.

[Lynk Former]

@ Ascended_Mike: I've always felt that no matter what type of game it is, what makes a game visually is its art style and the way developers are able to use/manage the power of a machines to make a game look appealing.

 

I mean, to illustrate the point, all you'd have to do is look at a number of Wii games that have exceptional visuals despite the lack of grunt in the hardware to go HD and pull of extremely advanced effects.

[Ascended_Mike]

@ Ascended_Mike: I've always felt that no matter what type of game it is, what makes a game visually is its art style and the way developers are able to use/manage the power of a machines to make a game look appealing.

 

I mean, to illustrate the point, all you'd have to do is look at a number of Wii games that have exceptional visuals despite the lack of grunt in the hardware to go HD and pull of extremely advanced effects.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with you on that point. But I think Bioware have a reputation for immersing you in a world and making everything feel believable.

 

I think from what i've seen so far, SW:TOR looks impressive. The cartoony visuals only lend to it's character. The original poster is refusing to play the game based on how it looks. I think that's a very stubborn take on it. I was shocked at first, as I expected it to lean towards a more realistic feel for characters, (Guild Wars is just an example i'd use) after playing kotor to death years ago.

 

I just think kicking it aside and not bothering with it based on the above and the combat system that you HAVEN'T tried yet is wrong.