mur'phon Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Riiiiight, unleash the hooligans:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 yup.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 Yes, the Chinese invade America, and suddenly, there will be a new interpretation of 'the british are coming!' for years to come after the 'hooligans' supposedly save us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litofsky Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Yeah. Well, I've found time before our "Chinese Movie" to sneak into the Library, so here I am. Anyways, Chinese is a drag. It is, more or less, completely alien to me, and we're still moving at a fast pace. I asked the teacher to slow down a bit tomorrow, though, so I should be a bit better off. Perhaps I should give you guys a topic while I'm gone? How about: What is the meaning of Life? Enjoy, Litofsky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 I've answered that before... 'The meaning of life is for life to advance itself to a higher level, and maintain its own existence.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 'The meaning of life is for life to advance itself to a higher level, and maintain its own existence.' How's that an answer? If their is no reason for life to exist, then existance is meaningless; regardless of how you try and give it a point... "Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance". - That 'happy' but logical atheist philosopher; Jean-Paul Sartre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 I was expectign a reply like that... At first, life wasn't sentient, was it? All it would live by would be to 'eat or be eaten'. And I did give it a reason to exist- to advance itself to a higher level, and maintain its own existence. Even if that existence and living is 'meaningless, that doesn't matter. Life exists, and so it's going to simply do what it's meant to do. I can accept that when i die, probably nothing will happen... We humans, having sentient minds, we try to give things a meaning, but, in soem cases, what you have to do is, for example, check the answer 'D' for 'no answer' on that test... There were the right conditions for life to form, and it formed. It didn't ask itself the questions we're asking ourselves right now when it formed. Because it could, it did... Some of the most complex answers can have the most unexpected and simple answer. Thing is, who are we, being life-forms ourselves to judge the 'reason' of existing? Are we at the highest lelve of cognitive capability that we can be at, or are we not? Is our intellect much more limited than like to think it is, or not? Maybe we're just meant to exist for no reason, maybe we're meant to fulfill some purpose to a diety, or, maybe we will advance to much higher level, and give life meaning. We may not have an absolutely conclusive answer right now, but that doesn't mean we won't later on. Maybe we cannot fully comprehend life's meaning, or maybe we already do. Either way, for the moment, I would say that both of us are correct, to a degree, because we don't really honestly know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Arc, with all due respect my friend; whatever is the truth regardless of what you think/feel. "because we don't really honestly know". That's an opinion, one of course both me and say Achilles differ on. However you can for example say if X were true what follows on... I would somewhat suggest I have read more around the philosophical aspects of this than most and I would highly recommend reading Nietzsche (always Kaufmann translations as he's easily the best - I noticed your last Nietzsche quote you had up was incorrectly translated as it wasn't Kaufmann ). Nietzsche has received bad press for being mis-interpreted and used for people's end's have a read; for my part I think it the most logical out line of atheism. GB J7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Lit: Feel your pain, I'll be heading for a Russian school this autumn, and with the teachers on holliday, I won't know a word Russian until then. J7: Then what is your answer to the meaning of life? And now for something completely different /python. I have always wanted to read Nietzsche, but the lack of his books in english put me off (I hate norwegian). Now I'll finaly be able to buy some, so, which one should I get my hands on? Anyway does it really matter if there is a meaning of life or not, and even if we asume there are, is there a point in knowing it? Because if there is meaning to our existence, we are probably doing "what is neccesary", since if we don't we have no purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Nietzsche comes highly recommended; he's my favourite philosopher If your starting out I would say the best place to start off is this book; http://www.amazon.com/Writings-Nietzsche-Modern-Library-Classics/dp/0679783393/ref=pd_sim_b_njs_1 If you wish for any further recommendations do let me know, I'm what you could call a lay scholar of Nietzsche's - who was in my opinion perhaps the most brilliant mind of the last millennia. The meaning of life? What's the meaning of life to me? To glorify Jesus, by bringing love to the world. I would probably use a couple of quotes... "Matthew 22:37-39: Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "John 14:6 ' Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." I would quickly also point out this; “I like your Christ, but not your Christians, they are unlike your Christ”. – Ghandi. Indeed Ghandi's notes on Christianity do make fascinating reading. The great problem in my opinion with Christianity today is a clear lack of love from many and an obsession with doctrine; questions are good and all should be allowed to asked. It amuses me that the people Jesus didn't like were the religious. Just my 2 cents on that, which I might get some comments for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 As I said, the asnwer could easily be very simple, but unexpected... IMO, some people try to overcomplicate things. That overcomplicating can be a good or a bad thing. In trying to give ourselves an answer to life, we overcomplicate it all. People get so deep int trying to find a particular answer from one specific source, and cut themselves off from other possible answers from other sources. IE, an athiest may deeply study science, but never fully comprehend all of philosophy and religion. Or a Christian could deeply study the bible, but never fully consider all of science. There's a quote somewhere... Can't remember it, but it said soemthing about biased opinions bringing a lack of judgement when looking at other opinions. Eh, maybe this would be better: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/f/friedrich_nietzsche.html This should prove interesting to read. I'm not even done reading all the quotes yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 J7: Thanks, and while we're at it, a recomendation for Schopenhauer(sp?) would be nice. A friend said my world view matches his, and I want to know if that's a compliment. Arc: What does that have to do with the meaning of life? And don't rely on quotes to argue for you, saying it with your own words adds more weight (at least to me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 My favourite Schopenhauer book is the following; http://www.amazon.co.uk/Essays-Aphorisms-Classics-Arthur-Schopenhauer/dp/0140442278/ref=pd_sim_b?ie=UTF8&qid=1213964077&sr=1-12 If you get any of the other works you may also find this very useful; http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cambridge-Companion-Schopenhauer-Companions-Philosophy/dp/0521629241/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213964291&sr=1-13 Hope you enjoy them! Arc, my objection to Brainy Quote and others like it, is it doesn't say which translation or even in most cases which book the quote came from. Its not even real philosophy, as philosophy is not a quick quote; its so much more than that; to get an idea behind the intent of any quote, it is very useful to have the background reading behind it; especially in Nietzsche's case as he is often miss-understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Hmm... Well a lot of those quotes still were very interesting to hear and think about... Some of those quotes took me awhile for me to figure out their meaning... But, to try to avoid misinterpretation, I tried to find two different meanings for each quote. Also, that was the first thing that showed up on the list when I looked for quotes of F.N (It's such a hassle to spell his name right so I just say F.N) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 For those unable to get the books, this site (and links) maybe interesting; http://www.pitt.edu/~wbcurry/nmenu.html I as always advise caution with Internet sites, and would re-iterate that the best translations of Nietzsche are by Kaufmann. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Thanks J7! This should be very interesting to read. Much better some list of quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 http://www.rzim.org for those of you who are interested in a philosophical approach to why Ravi thinks there a. is a God and why Christianity is an answer to life issues. J7--Nietzsche just makes me want to lie down and take a bottle of Zoloft and/or a plate of chocolate chip cookies to deal with how utterly depressing his conclusions are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 @Jae, the wily old German coot was I think just utterly and totally ruthless with his logic, fortunately his world view is not my world view Despite that disagreement I do hold him in very high intellectual esteem. Interestingly I think Nietzsche would regard Darth Vader to be a failed Overman. Ravi's site comes highly recommended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 If, you don't mind, J7 and Jae, just a friendly question, but, if it's not too intruding, what exactly is it that makes you stay a Christian? I'd like to hear your veiws on all of this... Now I'm not looking for a reason to be swayed back to Christianity, but I'd like to know what keeps intellectuals such as yourselves being Christians, who know and understand many good arguments agaisnt Christianity, but are not swayed by it. I'm not looking for a debate, just a view I can study and analyze for myself to further see all these the aspects of the world in the raw contrast I see them in now... I know you are using the Ravi website as a source strength for your position, but what exactly is it about the debating points Ravi and others like him that strengthens your beleifs? I'm just curious, is all. Trying to stay open-minded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istorian Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Hello, fellow thinkers. Just joined the Guild. Alderaan smells nice before the explosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 Hello, Istorian. Welcome to the TGA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Welcome Istorian, nice to have you in the Guild. Arc: First a note, Ravi's arguments for Christianity are not my reasons for believing. Why am I a Christian? My position is this; The truth is never affraid to listen - hence the fact I read a wide variety of things, from Dawkins - to Nietzsche (I apologise to you Achilles my friend haven't listened to your links yet, no excuses tendered). At the ages of both 17 and 19, I de-constructed the world, took apart everything I thought and started from scratch, to bring me to what was as close to the truth as I can arrive. I was not until the age of 17/18 a Christian. Do understand taking apart the world, examining things and for a lesson in deduction, I would highly recommend reading Rene Descartes, the father of modern philosophy. A simple question; Why do we exist? Why is there something, instead of nothing? The Indian Poet - Rabindranath Tagore wrote; "Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation". I think it was Rev7 that used to have the following quote in his sig; C.S. Lewis wrote; "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else". Personally I don't think the world makes a lot of sense; unless viewed from a Christian perspective... I'm sure some here will dispute that The world is I feel a messed up place; I would venture it would be a lot less messed up if people lived out the radical life of love Jesus according to the Bible observed. I think, unforgiveness, hate, revenge etc have a very corrosive effect on an individual. Unfortunately I don't think many Christians live out the radical life Jesus outlined; and that is why the Christian Church is beset by the problems some of you may be familiar with; others persecuted by them. GK Chesterton observed; "The Bible tells us to love our neighbours, and also to love our enemies; probably because they are generally the same people." According to the Bible, Jesus was a guy who blessed and prayed for the Romans and others who crucified him - I think that's radical; and perhaps not something I see quite a few Christians doing. I have observed too many phenomena that I don't think science will ever be able to explain, from healing's, to tongues, to the change becoming a Christian makes in people's lives. My life has not unfolded by chance; I think the odds are too long to account for all the 'random' things that have happened as being chance. I do not wish to take up too much time here, but suffice to say, had my life taken different turns, I would no longer be a Christian. I want to keep this short, and I am happy to discuss via PM, I hope that helps explain a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcesious Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Hmm. Yeah a light PM discussion would be good... I'm not up for debate- I'm merely beginning to study the many ideals and beleifs of different people, because I admit I may or may not be wrong about the position of beleifs I'm in... And I'm open to whatever 'truth' there coudl be.. The only thing being, at the moment I don't hold solidly to any assumed absolutes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 J7: your position=my position:D Descartes never really managed to convince me, nice ideas, but from what I gathered, the only thing he managed to prove was that we exist, in one form or another. And yes, I dispute your "makes sence" thingy, the world makes perfect sence to me:) I agree with the Jesus part, he is essentially the "perfect" person, if he was so in rl dosen't really matter. *agrees with the corossive effect* though probably for diferent reasons. I have observed too many phenomena that I don't think science will ever be able to explain Lucky you, would have made my life far easier if I had withnesed such things. And how about not taking the subject to PM, it would be quite interesting to see why other people believe what they believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I guess that I haven't been here in a while.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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