Return to Monkey Island VERY EARLY GAME Spoiler Discussion (Up through early Part One)

[Jake]

Use this thread if you've just started playing and want to talk about the early game, without getting into the rest. If you've played the Prologue and are just getting into Part One, but don't want late game spoilers, this is the thread for you.

 

My simple take is...  I love how this game starts. It's absolutely nothing I would have expected. It was a delight to be playing through and having absolutely no idea what was happening, or would happen next, until the ground finally slowly came in underneath me. 

[KestrelPi]

Ugh I just wrote a whole post on this and got an error. I'm not doing all that again so:

 

• I called bits of this, like the framing of the theme park and how I thought we'd see Guybrush taking his kids there
• I did not call the end of MI2 getting reframed in the way it does, and I sort of love it as an idea

Also I

Spoiler

just got to the bit where lil brush interrupts during the Pirate Leader dialogue and I'm looking forward to seeing how more of that comes into to play

 

 

So far, I love what they did with the ending. I never considered that precise possibility, but I got close.

[Jake]

8 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

Ugh I just wrote a whole post on this and got an error

Noooo sorry, I was doing some last minute forum shuffling and it might have caught you in it! I'm done meddling now, I promise.

[tmetic]

My jaw dropped to the floor when Guybrush appeared in the prologue. Makes sense though... or does it? I'm loving the vibes that all isn't what it seems, so far. The doppelganger 'parents'. The lady in the window above the shop. Something is not quite right here...

[Garystu]

Oh my god kid Guybrush is so cute! Awwww I love him I love him I love

 

ahem

 

anyway, wait a minute this doesn't explain MI2's ending. It makes things more confusing. Are we going to see a new perspective on the whole ordeal? Will we get an explaination even in this game? Or will it just be a weird ending forever? Is what Curse made of it the official explaination forever now? (all questions are rhetorical only, people who actually know, don't answer)

 

Anyway, back on topic, guybrush jr is so cute, don't you think? he's so cute. I wish you could make him drink the brown water in the outhouse, he's so cute.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Guybrush Transmasc

[Jake]

7 minutes ago, Guybrush Transmasc said:

anyway, wait a minute this doesn't explain MI2's ending. It makes things more confusing.

Did anyone ever say it would explain the ending, or just that it would start there? 🤔

[KestrelPi]

it does better than that. It reframes the ending in a way that:

 

• allows the adventures to continue
• allows everyone to decide for themselves how much of the subsequent games really happened the way they were told
• leaves enough room for some individual interpretation of events

I think it's possibly the perfect solution

[Jake]

12 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

I think it's possibly the perfect solution

Yeah it’s great. Unexpected, but totally fits. So much good subtle stuff going on in there too, like the background changing after they follow the parents to the edge of the scene. 

[Garystu]

29 minutes ago, Jake said:

Did anyone ever say it would explain the ending, or just that it would start there? 🤔

Well, I didn't need an explaination, so I'm not upset I didn't really get one. I was just saying. Weird ending forever!

[Kroms]

Man, this game feels lively. I love how characters talk when you're just hovering by them. How characters seem to remember what you say and the dialogue adjusts accordingly. Loving it. 

[Kroms]

Also, from the scrapbook: The Tales art copying Ryan David Jones's style is such a nice touch. Those skulls, eh?

[demone]

The explanation they give....I absolutely love it. In a few minutes it neatly ties up the ending and connects it with the rest of the series. So, my take is essentially Guybrush's son is reimagining the stories Guybrush told him with his friends. Each game at this point has basically been them reimagining the tales. Largely, the tales they reimagine are accurate, but they incorporated their own twist into the ending of the second game and take liberties here and there with other aspects (the pirates insult sword fighting saying, "come on, play along").

 

This game starts with them finishing one of their retellings of the second game, and the explanation given in Curse remains canon. So Guybrush and LeChuck aren't brothers (at least where I'm at in the game now). It fits so nicely because Guybrush and LeChuck never bring it up again, because LeChcuk never said it. Now, it does make me question the whole "dad's skeleton head" now.

 

Beyond that, this game is incredible. And l'm loving the great scores it's getting. Well, done, Ron, Dave and everyone else. I still have plenty to play, but I don't have one complaint right now.

Edited October 1, 2022 by demone

[Dmnkly]

You can see why this was SO HARD to hold onto, because it's so freaking brilliant, the way it's done.

 

It's almost as though the retcon inserts a massive time break *within* MI2... between the tunnels and when the kids emerge. Into that gap goes everything... Curse, Escape, Tales and who knows what else.

 

What's more, it sets up this storytelling framework that takes the emphasis off the details. Does it really matter if all of the details fit perfectly? Maybe not so much. It reminds me of the alternate timeline thing in the Star Trek reboots (before that became a big trend) — a clever way of sidestepping all of the canon and continuity questions.

 

And it takes the question "How can you do a Monkey Island game that picks up right at the end of MI2 but still incorporates everything thereafter" and ties it up in a neat little bow.

 

I mean, seriously... just effing brilliant.

[demone]

Honestly, this also adds such a nice, emotional layer onto the entire series. Seeing Guybrush going from being on Melee in the first game with nobody and nothing but a dream of being a pirate and now seeing him have a family is genuinely heartwarming.

 

Also, going to be really fun to play previous entries thinking that it's Guybrush recounting the events to his son or his son acting them out with his friends.

 

I LOVE this lol
 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by demone

[Dmnkly]

3 hours ago, demone said:

Honestly, this also adds such a nice, emotional layer onto the entire series. Seeing Guybrush going from being on Melee in the first game with nobody and nothing but a dream of being a pirate and now seeing him have a family is genuinely heartwarming.

 

...and may I add that this TOTALLY DID NOT GET ME RIGHT IN THE FEELS BECAUSE IT HIT SO EERILY CLOSE TO HOME.

[Laserschwert]

Man, I played that Prologue smiling all the way through. What a clever and charming way to deal with MI2.

 

Playing on the Switch, the controls are super smooth. Perfect way to translate P&C to a controller. I'm still early in the game, so I'll stay off any reviews for now. I don't even want to know any review scores, so that it won't influence my impressions in any way.

 

Going to drop the girl off at the Kindergarten now, and then using my day off to get back to the game!

[Junaid]

Man, I cried my eyes out, it was beautiful. 

I was always afraid that if Ron should ever do his original idea for Monkey3, everything from Curse, Escape and Tales would've been thrown away, but this.... oh man... This beginning just ties it all together in a really sweet way, even solving some of the story inconsistenties the series had.

  

[BillyCheers]

First of all: What a great game so far! I was even more amazed by the whole look and feel than I expected: the animations are fantastic, the voiceover is great, the dialogues are charming and funny (without being too silly or forced). I love all the little details - and I especially love the music (it's so good!).

 

As for the beginning, I have to admit that I was a bit disappointed at first, because I expected a bit more of a "resolution". But maybe, as a non-father, I'm also missing the emotional connection a bit…?
But thinking on it a bit more, I think it's very well solved and certainly the best possible solution to the strange ending of MI2 (if you have to pick it up.). I'm also pretty sure that anything else would have disappointed me much more. It's very well done, is fun - and how can you not like Little Guybrush? And as others have pointed out, it solves many other problems regarding details, incontinuity, the other sequels etc. … so I'm totally fine with it in the end!

Edited September 20, 2022 by BillyCheers

[KestrelPi]

The other thing this neatly resolves that I've been thinking of a lot lately but that I never really bothered to say out loud because it was such a minor point to me, is that I was never quite satisfied with the 'this is all just young guybrush's imagination' in ONE way, which is that while it made sense of a lot of what was going on in the first games, sometimes Guybrush's thoughts were a bit too grown up for it to quite fit. And I don't even mean in big, obvious ways, but in tiny little ways too - like, how likely is it that a small boy would know enough about food to know they hate vichyssoise?

 

But if you reframe it all as 'these are things that either an older guybrush is making up as stories for his kid, or embellishing a little in the retelling (I wonder if by the end we'll get to know which - I sort of hope this is a let-the-audience-decide scenario, but I don't mind either way), and then his own kid is imagining re-enacting them and adding his own embellishments and flourishes, it makes PERFECT sense of it all. Everything is explainable as either being seen through the lens of storyteller-Guybrush or Boybrush.

 

If you don't like the idea that some of the events in EMI happened 'for real', hey - you can just say 'well, to me, that game is just bits of stories told by Guybrush that Boybrush has further distorted into his own weird riff about a robot with his dad's encouragement.' Viewed through that lens, I even like it a little more than I did previously.

 

If you don't like how weird and fast Elaine and Guybrush's romance was in MI1 you can explain that as Guybrush glossing over a lot of the icky details in front of his son and exaggerating their flirting for comic effect in a way that would make Boybrush laugh, OR you can imagine it as Boybrush's own imagined re-enactment of how that moment would have gone.

 

This is a tremendous gift, I think, as it basically just gives us the MI universe and lets us all make of it what we will.

Edited September 20, 2022 by KestrelPi

[Garystu]

alt text here:

Spoiler

Captain Madison - Who would have predicted it could reproduce? (picture of kid Guybrush)

Lila - POV: Eight years after having cringe sex with your fail wife.

The Real Guybrush Threepwood - If loving my wife is cringe, that;s ok! I have a beutiful (sic) family! My wife is the light of my life. The only "fail" here is your attitude.

Lila - BRUH

Cap'n Trent - TMI MAN, BUT THANKS FOR ADMITTING YOU HAVE CRINGE SEX I GUESS

Captain Madison - "BEUTIFUL" LMAOOOOO

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Guybrush Transmasc

[BaronGrackle]

I'm dodging this thread because I've only gotten through the Scrapbook so far, but I wanted to post about the Scrapbook. I probably won't even be able to read replies until my kids and I get through the Prelude.

 

1) Extremely pleased that all the MI games are represented here. Before the scrapbook teaser was revealed, I wouldn't have guessed that MI2 only had as much coverage as any other sequel.

 

2) Neutral surprised at the coverage of Guybrush and Elaine's wedding, as much as a sequel game! But I assume it means this game will address something about their wedding or marriage.

 

3) A little bit miffed/disappointed at the CMI recap, the way it presents Elaine's statue curse as an act of LeChuck in two separate voiced comments. It was even to the level of irony, when Guybrush remarked that LeChuck must only see Elaine as furniture - dude, he was vaporized before you transformed her! YOU DID THAT TO HER! THAT'S WHY SHE PUNCHED YOU! 🤪 I didn't expect Guybrush to wallow in remorse here, but his failure to remember this was HIS mistake... along with the MI2 page showing Elaine coming after him without Guybrush acknowledging that he'd basically rejected her for his map quest (MI2 was the lowest point in their relationship, but it gets an "Elaine is always there for me" or some such)... juxtaposed with the big happy wedding page? It kind of lessens him as a character to me.

 

4) Though not egregious, his Tales memory of Morgan really dwells on her betrayal without mentioning her role/redemptive aid at the end, huh? Especially since it wasn't technically a betrayal; she already told him that she was there to capture him. But someone who watches this recap without knowing the game will assume they parted ways as enemies.
I wonder why the game doesn't use that trailer picture we saw of Elaine dueling Morgan?
I wonder what Guybrush means when he says "or so it seemed", regarding the Pox. Maybe that's related to stuff the Prelude will reveal to me.

Nice picture of the cat and magnet. 😆

 

EDIT: 5) Guybrush making the prosthetic abomination in Escape is officially Roncanon. Ha!

Edited September 20, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[KestrelPi]

When he's done the prologue and come back, then we can have a REAL discussion of what 'Roncanon' even means. 😄

 

By which I mean (spoilering just in case he sees this so soon)

 

Spoiler

It's so refreshing to be in a position where we can talk about ... sure, Roncanon, yeah, but that's almost beside the point. Now we can have Guybrush-canon, Boybrush-canon and our personal canon which might just be sorting out what is Guybrush-canon, what is Boybrush-canon and everything that might be a little bit in the middle.

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by KestrelPi

[BaronGrackle]

The daughter and wife are binging old Criminal Minds together, and I think daughter also has a math test this week. If all else fails, I'll pull the kids out of bed in the wee hours of Saturday morning to get through those first ten minutes Noah Falstein was so excited about.

Edited September 20, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[KestrelPi]

57 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

The daughter and wife are binging old Criminal Minds together, and I think daughter also has a math test this week. If all else fails, I'll pull the kids out if bed in the wee hours of Saturday morning to get through those first ten minutes Noah Falstein was so excited about.

Better give it 20, 30, I'd say.

[Kroms]

3 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

way it presents Elaine's statue curse as an act of LeChuck in two separate voiced comments. It was even to the level of irony, when Guybrush remarked that LeChuck must only see Elaine as furniture - dude, he was vaporized before you transformed her! YOU DID THAT TO HER! THAT'S WHY SHE PUNCHED YOU! 🤪 

It's just a difference in interpretation. Curse never says the engagement ring was something LeChuck meant for Elaine, Return chooses to say it does.