MP - Players killing themselves before you kill them...

[DSbr-orion]

This is the saddest thread I have ever read. Just face it. DSbr had one of the tightest teams this game will ever see. morph/matt on D , remek / narbes / meta on O. On occasions others would fill in when the starters werent there.

 

How many other clans have you seen reach #1 on CTF FF , TDM FF and TDM NF. Nobody. Only clan I can ever see reaching that Triple Crown is TK. Btw , the TDM FF and TDM NF were played mostly by our second string and we never lost a single map.

 

Yes , we did set a lot of the standards this game follows today.

 

For me the highlight of the JKO history was the destruction of deviant. GG we suck lets leave.

[Rad Blackrose]

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|EGO METER |

|1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 |

|* * * * * * * * * * * * *|

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HOLY SHAZBOT, WE BROKE THE DAMN THING!

[KungFuJM]

WTF?? Who the hell cares about your fantasys... You sound like you are a 12 year old from Harlem. Get a clue.

 

~KFJ

 

 

 

Originally posted by DSbr-orion

This is the saddest thread I have ever read. Just face it. DSbr had one of the tightest teams this game will ever see. morph/matt on D , remek / narbes / meta on O. On occasions others would fill in when the starters werent there.

 

How many other clans have you seen reach #1 on CTF FF , TDM FF and TDM NF. Nobody. Only clan I can ever see reaching that Triple Crown is TK. Btw , the TDM FF and TDM NF were played mostly by our second string and we never lost a single map.

 

Yes , we did set a lot of the standards this game follows today.

 

For me the highlight of the JKO history was the destruction of deviant. GG we suck lets leave.

[DSbr-HaZe]

this was posted on second page by det hehe:

Originally Strafe-Running was an exploit in the original quake I believe, a few people complained about it, but it become an acceptable move because EVERYONE was capable of doing it with ease.

 

The same with rocket-jumping, the rocket launcher in Quake was never intented to be used in this way, but people found they could use it, and so it evolved. Quake 3 had a lot of development into getting the power of the rocket launcher right so that it remained usable with rocket jumping. Many mods have been based around the concept of rocket-jumping.

 

Now for Bunny-Hopping, as far as I can tell, this is a JK2 thing, the extra power jump gives you allows you to move faster, people did complain about it originally, but I think now its an accepted strategy. YES it exploits a basic physics error in the game, but so does Strafe-running. The point is everyone can do it.

_________________________________________________

 

K first off, the rocket jump was discovered by id when beta testing quake. I believe it was American McGee who jumped on top of Romero and rjed. Yes i am a loser for knowing this. But the fact is, if they didnt want it, they would have removed it then. Therefore it is not an exploit.

 

Strafe jumping is in the source code for quake, q2, and q3, i will go pull it out if i have to, in quake/jk2 the more velocity you contain as you fall, the faster you will move, by running and jumping you gain speed due to this and the fact that they wanted it to.

 

Bunny Hopping is a Half life thing which actually was removed because it was indeed a bug.

[DSbr-HaZe]

BF actually deserves some credit. I think i remeber when we first played them they just ran around with sabers trying to force pull us. hehe, this is an example of how people have learned, unlike the rest of the community.

[KungFuJM]

I agree with you on everything you said below, however this is not that kind of exploit. This /kill command does more then giv eyou extra speed, or make you jump higher. This can be an insta teleport, insta health on CTF boards.

CTF is meant to be a team game with some players on one side some on the other. Don't you think /kill bind defeats the purpose of having a defense and an offense. Dont you think it defeats the purpose of larger maps, when you can just beam back to your side of the map.. It may not be an "outlawed" tactic, but it is quite lame. I supposed there will be kick spammers, throw whores, and now /kill sluts. There may not be anything I can do to stop it, but I can damn well state my opinion and hope somone at Lucas Arts, or the OGL admins, or Team Warfare listens. It is an obvious exploit. However, I am not going to just stop playing because no one pays attention to it. If I have to I will adapt, and find a counter to this, overall my main gripe is that I feel it is a lame "exploit" not a tactic.

 

~KFJ

 

 

 

Originally posted by DSbr-HaZe

this was posted on second page by det hehe:

Originally Strafe-Running was an exploit in the original quake I believe, a few people complained about it, but it become an acceptable move because EVERYONE was capable of doing it with ease.

 

The same with rocket-jumping, the rocket launcher in Quake was never intented to be used in this way, but people found they could use it, and so it evolved. Quake 3 had a lot of development into getting the power of the rocket launcher right so that it remained usable with rocket jumping. Many mods have been based around the concept of rocket-jumping.

 

Now for Bunny-Hopping, as far as I can tell, this is a JK2 thing, the extra power jump gives you allows you to move faster, people did complain about it originally, but I think now its an accepted strategy. YES it exploits a basic physics error in the game, but so does Strafe-running. The point is everyone can do it.

_________________________________________________

 

K first off, the rocket jump was discovered by id when beta testing quake. I believe it was American McGee who jumped on top of Romero and rjed. Yes i am a loser for knowing this. But the fact is, if they didnt want it, they would have removed it then. Therefore it is not an exploit.

 

Strafe jumping is in the source code for quake, q2, and q3, i will go pull it out if i have to, in quake/jk2 the more velocity you contain as you fall, the faster you will move, by running and jumping you gain speed due to this and the fact that they wanted it to.

 

Bunny Hopping is a Half life thing which actually was removed because it was indeed a bug.

[KungFuJM]

I agree with you on everything you said below, however this is not that kind of exploit. This /kill command does more then giv eyou extra speed, or make you jump higher. This can be an insta teleport, insta health on CTF boards.

CTF is meant to be a team game with some players on one side some on the other. Don't you think /kill bind defeats the purpose of having a defense and an offense. Dont you think it defeats the purpose of larger maps, when you can just beam back to your side of the map.. It may not be an "outlawed" tactic, but it is quite lame. I supposed there will be kick spammers, throw whores, and now /kill sluts.

There may not be anything I can do to stop it, but I can damn well state my opinion and hope somone at Lucas Arts, or the OGL admins, or Team Warfare listens.

It is an obvious exploit. However, I am not going to just stop playing because no one pays attention to it. If I have to I will adapt, and find a counter to this, overall my main gripe is that I feel it is a lame "exploit" not a tactic.

 

~KFJ

 

 

 

Originally posted by DSbr-HaZe

this was posted on second page by det hehe:

Originally Strafe-Running was an exploit in the original quake I believe, a few people complained about it, but it become an acceptable move because EVERYONE was capable of doing it with ease.

 

The same with rocket-jumping, the rocket launcher in Quake was never intented to be used in this way, but people found they could use it, and so it evolved. Quake 3 had a lot of development into getting the power of the rocket launcher right so that it remained usable with rocket jumping. Many mods have been based around the concept of rocket-jumping.

 

Now for Bunny-Hopping, as far as I can tell, this is a JK2 thing, the extra power jump gives you allows you to move faster, people did complain about it originally, but I think now its an accepted strategy. YES it exploits a basic physics error in the game, but so does Strafe-running. The point is everyone can do it.

_________________________________________________

 

K first off, the rocket jump was discovered by id when beta testing quake. I believe it was American McGee who jumped on top of Romero and rjed. Yes i am a loser for knowing this. But the fact is, if they didnt want it, they would have removed it then. Therefore it is not an exploit.

 

Strafe jumping is in the source code for quake, q2, and q3, i will go pull it out if i have to, in quake/jk2 the more velocity you contain as you fall, the faster you will move, by running and jumping you gain speed due to this and the fact that they wanted it to.

 

Bunny Hopping is a Half life thing which actually was removed because it was indeed a bug.

[DSbr-HaZe]

self killing helps ur team retard. its not an INSTA teleport, u spawn as if u died. so is it an exploit to get killed because i spawn with full force??? u respawn, u dont teleport. do u even play ctf kung? are u in a clan? do they play competitive ctf? u have no idea what ur talking about, the /kill is used in other games besides jk2, thats why it is there, its not a bug/exploit because it is meant to be there. Meaning it can be used at the players discretion. If i change my fov(cg_fov) to 120 am i cheating because it widens my peripheral vision and aids in seeing/moving(haha i bet i will start something). Its a ****ing console command and is there for the purpose of the player to customize their settings fully(q3 engine) for optimal performance on their computer. /kill is a console command, it was put there for us to use, and its used for a reason, stfu newbies u will never learn nor do u play ctf, go whine about cheap saber tactics that only the emperor and evil dark jedi would use.

[KungFuJM]

First of all it is an insta teleport back to your side of the map.. If you are disputing that you are just ignorant. Oh to answer your questions , Yes I am in a clan, Yes I play CTF, Yes we play competitively. Also you are wrong again.. /kill is to kill your player if they are stuck on a wall or experience another bug like the saber not coming back to you ever. /kill was not put into the game just to bind and abuse. I don't see anywhere in the manual where it says "oh by the way to take advantage of rage and get back to your base quickly just bind /kill" Give me a break. Why do you have to result to name calling.. could it be because your case is so weak? Probably.

 

 

~KFJ

[DSbr-HaZe]

i wont reply to the /kill being used for troubleshooting since it was mentioned in my first post. what u are saying is that RESPAWNING is an insta teleport. what i was saying was SO IF I AM SHOT AND KILLED I AM EXPLOITING BECAUSE I INSTA TELEPORT BACK TO MY BASE. does ur clan win? have they played valar, dsbr, bf, tk, HK, any DECENT clan? or would u just whine cause we all use /kill. U are a newbie that is why i call u one.

[AOL User]

/kill is just lame in CTF. Why? Because it takes away so many other aspects in the game, making it less enjoyable to play. Except for maybe the "L337" players. You've got to accept the fact that heretics come to church, but mustn't forget why the church was built in the first place. Termites wouldn't infest wood if there wasn't something good there for them to exploit. Maybe those "L337" players have gotten so competitive that they've forgotten how to have fun with a game.

[KungFuJM]

Why even bother.. You are too l33t for me to talk to.. You and the rest of your peeps, are down with CTF.. I forgot I was dealing with the tightest of tight clan on the Jk2 ladder. I forgot that you are down with all that and ROXXOR so well. Hey have you ever playing DX, YK, ICETEA, SUDO, NOMAN, or IZOD? Just wondering maybe you are too busy ROXXING JOO MAMA to play them!

 

~KFJ

 

 

Originally posted by DSbr-HaZe

i wont reply to the /kill being used for troubleshooting since it was mentioned in my first post. what u are saying is that RESPAWNING is an insta teleport. what i was saying was SO IF I AM SHOT AND KILLED I AM EXPLOITING BECAUSE I INSTA TELEPORT BACK TO MY BASE. does ur clan win? have they played valar, dsbr, bf, tk, HK, any DECENT clan? or would u just whine cause we all use /kill. U are a newbie that is why i call u one.

[DSbr-HaZe]

yes haha now termites are using exploits. good job newbies i think u should complain to raven about that too

[AOL User]

Originally posted by AOL User

/kill is just lame in CTF. Why? Because it takes away so many other aspects in the game, making it less enjoyable to play. Except for maybe the "L337" players. You've got to accept the fact that heretics come to church, but mustn't forget why the church was built in the first place. Termites wouldn't infest wood if there wasn't something good there for them to exploit. Maybe those "L337" players have gotten so competitive that they've forgotten how to have fun with a game.

 

Don't you mean I got it right on Mr. Haze? Didn't Hobbes say he was sad because a lot of JK2 clans were leaving? And no, Mr. Hobbes, its not the "newbies" complaining for new patches that are ruinining the game. Its you and your ilk. The clans are leaving cause they've butchered the enjoyment out of the game for even themselves.

[jbone]

Originally posted by KungFuJM

Why do you have to result to name calling.. could it be because your case is so weak? Probably.

 

He's not calling names, he's stating fact. And his argument isn't weak, it's just falling on deaf ears.

 

In both cases, you and your ilk just don't like what you're hearing, so you shut it out.

[KungFuJM]

No I think it is the other way around.. Everyone that has ever played a FPS game knows that /kill is meant to be used if you are stuck on a map someplace or that your game has malfunctioned in some way.. Not to abuse and exploit like you and the rest of the wannabe "l33t d00ds" do.

 

~KFJ

[jbone]

Everyone who has ever played a FPS game knows that if there is anything to be utilized to its fullest, someone will utilize it and will benefit from it - and people who refuse to because "it's not right" will never progress far in the game.

 

Obviously, you realize this, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about elements you feel don't belong in the game - you see people using the tools available to them, you see that they beat you more often than you can beat them, and you want the game aspects removed so that you can feel as though you're on an even footing with them.

 

That's the root of the argument against /kill and such things - people are upset that "an elite few" have "an advantage," so they want "the advantage" removed to bring down the better players. By bringing down the better players, the worse players feel that they'll be able to beat the better players, and therefore they'll be able to derive more pleasure out fo the game.

 

It's easy to blame other people for things. "Oh, the game is flawed, and that's why I can't beat the other guy!"

 

It's easy to see why this attitude flourishes. Throughout American culture, more and more lawsuits are brought to trial, and people attempt to sue for every reason from fast food restaurants' selling of food that "made them fat" (even though nutrition information is readily accessible and everyone knows fast food is fattening) to school teachers who refuse to pass failing students (even theough the students don't do the work and the parents are simply in denial as to their childrens' mental acuity).

 

There was a time when people tried to find things they were good at, and then would take pride in what they could do.

 

It's sad that culture has regressed so much that, instead of becoming good at stuff, people would rather bring each other down.

[AOL User]

Originally posted by AOL User

/kill is just lame in CTF. Why? Because it takes away so many other aspects in the game, making it less enjoyable to play. Except for maybe the "L337" players. You've got to accept the fact that heretics come to church, but mustn't forget why the church was built in the first place. Termites wouldn't infest wood if there wasn't something good there for them to exploit. Maybe those "L337" players have gotten so competitive that they've forgotten how to have fun with a game.

 

Perhaps you should have thought your argument a bit better Mr. Bone. The kill command is available to everybody. It is however, lame. And this my friend, is why us "newbies" want it patched out of the game.

[Garath]

Bah.. multiple threads on the same topic.. I'll repost since this is the moving thread.

 

Let me understand this..

 

Sum of all arguements : "using a /kill bind gives the team an unfair advantage and should be changed with a spawn delay or a health penalty"

 

The opposing argument is that it is a team strategy that tightens the defense as well as improves the capping speed.

 

First, I'm a capper generally, so most of my arguments and parallels come from the capping perspective.

 

Second and on-topic. Yes.. I'll agree it does give an unfair advantage if the opposing team is not using /kill binds. However, would you also argue that using Rage/Speed gives an unfair speed advantage compared to someone on light powers only using Speed?

 

Yes.. Rage/Speed is MUCH faster. So they have an unfair advantage compared to someone using light powers excusively.

 

But now I hear you saying, but Rage has drawbacks so its not an unfair or exploitable advantage..

 

Well... /kill has drawbacks also, you spawn in the wrong spot and find yourself in a worse position. You spawn with no weapons (and saber isn't effective in CTF).

 

But wait, that's not as big of a drawback as Rage! Sure it is.. If I can't defensively kill someone before the duration of Rage is completed then likely they've capped already. And if I can't cap offensively before Rage wears off, I'm sure as hell not going to kill myself while I have the flag now am I? (unless you are Rusted/Blind)

 

Usually if Rage wears off I'll have a teammate kill me and recover the flag, but is that exploiting too? It sure gives an unfair advantage..

 

What else gives an unfair advantage? Going through the sniper window in Bespin Exhausts? I get an unfair advantage there, its a nice little shortcut. My team may have an unfair advantage by using voice speak in the background. Should that be banned from gameplay also?

 

/kill is in the game to /kill yourself. There are alot of /bind commands that exist that are not explicit in the GUI but are considered 'OK' to use. Some of them being the demoing functions and the Teamsay binds.. Do they give an advantage? Yup. Watching demos of yourself and your teammates sure do give you a leg up. And teamsay binds are invaluble if you don't have voice communication.

 

To sum up my arguments, If we were to ask Raven to remove everything from the game that gave an 'unfair' strategic advantage to someone then there wouldn't be much left of the game. Its these tactics that define competitive play. Any competitive team in the world on any sport, any playing grounds, will find strategies that give their team an edge over their opponent. Then once both teams start using it, its no longer an edge unless you do it better.

[jbone]

Originally posted by AOL User

Perhaps you should have thought your argument a bit better Mr. Bone. The kill command is available to everybody. It is however, lame. And this my friend, is why us "newbies" want it patched out of the game.

 

I truly and sincerely apologize, AOL User. I am oh so sorry that you lack the intelligence and the common sense to relate a small-scale game to the greater picture of American culture. I am also very sorry that you will never, ever have an open enough mind to ever understand any reasons why someone would want to utilize tools to better themselves, rather than have the tools removed so that other people can't benefit from them.

[Garath]

Originally posted by AOL User

 

Perhaps you should have thought your argument a bit better Mr. Bone. The kill command is available to everybody. It is however, lame. And this my friend, is why us "newbies" want it patched out of the game.

 

Why is it 'lame'?

 

'Mr. Bone' put it quite nicely from my standpoint. If the best argument you can illustrate is that it is 'lame' therefore it should be patched out is about as effective as me calling you a 'n00b' and saying you should 'stfd'. It just doesn't prove the point.

[AOL User]

Originally posted by AOL User

/kill is just lame in CTF. Why? Because it takes away so many other aspects in the game, making it less enjoyable to play. Except for maybe the "L337" players. You've got to accept the fact that heretics come to church, but mustn't forget why the church was built in the first place. Termites wouldn't infest wood if there wasn't something good there for them to exploit. Maybe those "L337" players have gotten so competitive that they've forgotten how to have fun with a game.

 

All games have rules with which to play by. I want the /kill command patched out of the game. Not that it gives an unfair advantage, but because it takes away from the game itself.

[Garath]

Originally posted by AOL User

 

All games have rules with which to play by. I want the /kill command patched out of the game. Not that it gives an unfair advantage, but because it takes away from the game itself.

 

what does it take away from the game itself? What element of competitive or fun gameplay does suiciding take away?

 

I was about to offer suggestions, but I'd like to hear it straight from you.

[DSbr-orion]

Give it up AOL user. The /kill command is going to stay.

[-Chrono_MOT-]

BTW, whoever said that dying and respawning is an exploit based on kung fu's philosophy has the intelligence of a grapefruit.

 

I'm for /kill staying, as long as it's done in CTF games and stays the hell away from my FFA games.

 

Obviously, dying is different than killing yourself - because in the latter episode you did yourself in purposely. In the former, someone else did you in. So while both do result in you respawning back at base, the act of killing yourself in order to gain a defensive advantage IS an exploit. It's also strategical.

 

I'm not even going to argue about CTF clans. They are a whole different world than what I play and as far as I'm concerned none of them are great. Not unless they've beaten a saber dueling clan, and vice versa. That's the problem, is people say "oh! Dsbr is the best clan ever!"

 

Best at what? At raging/speed at the same time, killing yourself instead of fighting, and jumping around shooting rockets? Capturing the flag? Seriously, I really just want to know what makes a clan the best. I don't need any sarcastic replies, it's an honest question.

 

It's a well known fact - saberists will always beat gunners on saber-only servers, and gunners will always beat saberists on CTF servers.

 

That being said, stop calling duelists n00bs, because most of them are as skilled with a saber as you are killing your sorry self and respawning at base.

 

I personally have never heard of any of these clans, so they must be CTF only...but who am I to judge anyway? I'm just a saberist right? That doesn't make me good at this game, that makes me a n00b as compared to someone who runs around killing himself for the good of the team? Riiiiiiight.

 

BTW, I don't agree with AOL user at all - kill does not need to be taken out of the game, it was there in case the game malfunctions or glitches. It becomes an exploit when people use it for reasons other than what it was intended for. If you keep telling yourself that it's there for CTF people to keep on the defense, you need to stop lying to yourself.