ArtifeX's ProMod 1.0 Beta -- Released

[CoreyGH]

This is unrelated to my last post. These are some things I wouldn't mind seeing added. (these are in jedimod and they seem to work well)

 

Saber throw knockdown ala single player. It just makes sence and it greatly reduces people spamming the move. If you deflect a thrown saber with your saber it gets knocked to the ground.

 

Ability to force push/pull items (also ala single player) Again, this just makes sence and I don't know why they didn't keep it in multi player. You could also do this in the original JK: Dark Forces 2.

 

Call me a sissy but I like some of the emotes in jedimod! Not the tossin the saber type stuff, but the ability to shrug or sit and stuff like that just adds to the game. And yeah, I realize this type of thing isn't high priority and shouldn't be but I'd like to see it eventually make its way in.

[Chaynsaw]

I haven't had a chance to get back to Jedi Outcast yet, but I'd like to know if ProMod lets you use the "illegal models" that were fixed in 1.03. I thought there were too few models/levels in original JO, and was curious as if those would be allowed again in this or another release of ProMod. Sans the "hands-only" model, i think all the others are pretty fun alternatives to the rather dreary selection confronted with in the menu.

 

Since JediMod and ProMod seem to be the most oft-discussed and popular modifications to JO, is there any chance we'll see some sort of collaboration? I haven't played either but they both sound fun. I was thinking, take the combat system from ProMod and the extra goodies from JediMod, make it into some kind of hybrid mod that all players can embrace.

 

I wonder how Raven and LucasArts feel about this. ProMod has released to far more praise (proportionally) than any of their patches, and seems to modify quite a bit more than they have, in a shorter amount of time. Could it be that we always hate the establishment and lionize its oppressed?

 

Very comprehensive saber guides, Artifex. You have quite a presence in the JO community. Perhaps they have a job waiting for you at LucasArts or Raven.. haha!

[CoreyGH]

The map cycle seems to be stuck at the intermission after ffa_yavin and it won't cycle to the next map.

[razorace]

I wonder how Raven and LucasArts feel about this. ProMod has released to far more praise (proportionally) than any of their patches, and seems to modify quite a bit more than they have, in a shorter amount of time. Could it be that we always hate the establishment and lionize its oppressed?

 

I'm sure Raven and LucasArts realizes the truth. People who are 100% content with the game aren't vocal about it. The only people you'll see in the forums are people that...

 

A. Hate some aspect of the game.

B. Are part of the Modding community.

 

So, basically the forums aren't a true measure of how people feel about the game / mods / etc.

[Deetox187]

Originally posted by CoreyGH

The map cycle seems to be stuck at the intermission after ffa_yavin and it won't cycle to the next map.

 

yep its stuck alright.

[Jah Warrior]

When I play i use a lot of spinning moves to sort of wind up into an attack, relying on instinct really. Its a bit tricky to explain what i mean with out being able to show you exactly.

 

The thing is that the mod sort of makes spinning moves to dangerous to contemplate using, thus reducing the diversity and number of effective moves available to the player.

 

Its almost like you get punished for using moves that took a great deal of practice and skill to use. the yellow normal swings seem as though they are the only 'safe' moves to use. It makes the multiple hit combos far too risky to use and that makes the fights less enjoyable to watch and dare i say play.

 

This is just my opinion I'm not slamming this mod, its a great piece of work.

[muhahaha]

Wow, this seems to be a great mod. Unfortunately I cannot try it from my current location, but I'll try it this evening!

 

It's great that there people working on improving the game! Not only this improvement, but also the skins, levels and so on. So thanks to all of you!

 

I downloaded a level editor so maybe I'll join the club some day.

 

Muhahaha

[Lucky]

artifex,

 

did you ever play the original JK? this is from left field so bare with me.

 

 

the blocking system in 1.02 was 'random' and 'non-existant' because of the netcode.

 

 

I figured out how to block consistently simply by timing the lag and intercepting the swings on the server, which allowed me to block any and all combos effectively so long as i kept that in mind.

 

This was much akin to how all of the original JK was played, with its pure client style netcode.

 

I don't know if this is relevant, but its an interesting tidbit of knowledge that you can keep if you'd like.

 

Essentially, blocking worked fine in 1.02, if you could time lag like a classic JKer.

 

With your current patch, this might actually be somthing you'd want to consider, because skilled players will eventually figure this out and make use of it.

 

BTW, best of luck, this game's competitive community has all but died because of the stress raven's been under with their numerous projects.

 

I have great faith that they'll fix our problems for us, eventually, however anything we can make due with in the mean time is wonderful.

 

 

Lucky

[els.DarkLord]

One thing i wanted to point out (sorry, if someone already did this, but who cares):

This 'Pro' MOD is pretty different from what we call 'Jedi Outcast', so basically i wanted to say that I wouldn't be that right if every JK2 ladder and whatever switched to ProMOD as ther official JK2 Competition. It is not JK2 anymore.

 

Be they good or bad, some of the changes are pretty fundamental and do things with JK2 that some will love and others won't like at all. Therefore, it simply WON'T be accepted as a replacement for JK2, so please don't go that route but try to establish something new. 'cause thats what it is. A new game.

 

I don't want to flame or anything, just trying to point this out :/

 

The fact that I don't like some of the changes has nothing to do with this post, and I won't annoy anyone with my personal opinion.

[Ged]

Nice work mate ;0) .... Whilst i sometimes like the long drawn out duels 1.3, 1.4 this mod seems to have brought back one of the most enjoyable aspects of the original 1.2 for me, ie. being able to take on 3-4 other ppl & cut em down within a minute or so & still be left standing (heh & posing usually;0). The 'Danger' of combat has meaning once again. Seems with this mod that he who concentrates on his skills and keeps a cool head wins. I'll take skill & concentration over random any day of the week. You concentrate on your skills = you live. You get sloppy = you die .... The way it should be.

 

For the first time in months i really want to play this game again, & not just merely coast on auto (Like i suspect a lot of ppl have been doing), just to keep my hand in.

 

V nice .

[ArtifeX]

I certainly appreciate the mention on the page. Hopefully it'll attract a lot more players and server admins.

 

Originally posted by Smood

Well, as you can see, I've posted quite a large news bit on Promod. For a short time, you will be getting massive advertisment! Only fair though, since I felt your work is that of something unique and made with thought and time.

 

It seemed to me that the visuals of your saber combat was somewhat similar to the look of the 'ideal settings' ghoul2 on, sabertrace off, I enjoyed this work even more because of this.

 

If you need anything feel free to email me at diablo@jediknightii.net, great work.

 

The new "feel" of the saber combat is due to the new way that the server sees the relationships between player and saber, which also made the "hit-from-the-opposite-side" and "I-cant-hit-u-from-behind" bug fixes possible. Glad you like it so far! More to come in the final version!

[ArtifeX]

Don't worry, if Raven releases another patch (my guess is that they won't unless there's some show-stopper bug uncovered in 1.04), then I'll just see if there's anything they implement that's worth having, and if so, I'll find a way to add the new functionality in a new version of ProMod. I really don't know what they'd do other than try to balance things better--which is what ProMod is doing right now.

 

If they wanted to use anything from ProMod in an official patch, I'd jump at the chance to donate it!

 

Glad you like the mod so far!

 

Originally posted by Apprentice

Wow...!!

 

I know im not speaking for myself when i say,

 

This is the mod that makes sense.

 

But ... But..?

What if those crazy Lucas Arts bean counters release yet another redundant patch..?

How much of a hassle will it be to compensate for whatever torturous patch they have in store for us next?

 

Thanks.

We all owe yuz.

I think that it is quite passible , you may have just saved Jedi Knight 2 from complete chaos.

Sorry ,no tips on gameplay yet, but i only just played it for 5 minutes and I just .... Well...

 

WOW!!

 

Thank God... err.. No thank coders and programers.

Same dif.

[ArtifeX]

We had a huge melee going on last night and the general consensus was that Light style was underpowered, not overpowered. Give the mod a shot with Light style in a big server and you'll see what I mean.

 

Originally posted by Cyris

Id have to say this is a great mod and it will avoid losing the fluke duel every now and then.... but what does it do to the n00b who blue spams. I dunno if this mod if gonna give that annoying little hoe an advantage or a disadvantage. It sounds great all and all but if he can aim that blue spam slightly i think its just a way to give ythr noob the advantage.

 

Well its been great. FOR ME TO POOP ON!

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by razorace

 

I disagree with the complete lack of auto-blocking. While this would probably the way to go for a sword fighting game, it just doesn't make me feel like a Jedi. I have to stare directly at a opponent to even have a change of blocking him and that makes me easy pickings to another other opponents. I think a set of cvars to change the min. blocking rate for the different arcs would be great. That way you could set it up where you can stand a chance in FFA.

 

 

 

Razor Ace

 

 

 

You wanna feel like a Jedi? Then practice like one. Play Play and Play some more until you kick serious butt no matter how many people are hacking at you.

 

Auto block with a larger arc is garbage and adds luck to saber fights. There should be NO FREEB's, you live and die based on your skill alone.

 

I think that is the point of this Mod.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by CoreyGH

I'm having a hard time verbalizing my question but here goes:

 

As I understand it, to get max damage from a swing the CSC must be small and red. The CSC gets smaller and more red the closer you get your crosshair (and your body) to your opponant. In order to get your crosshair on your opponant you must be facing them and they must be directly in front of you.

 

The concern I have with this is that there are some swings that are not as effective if your opponant is directly in front of you.

 

The most obvious one being, of course, the backswing/backstab. If you are behind me, my CSC won't be very small and red. So, if I execute a backswing/backstab will it not cause very much damage?

 

This isn't a problem. The CSC is inverted for all backsweep/stab moves, though not visibly so on the client. So, if you want to hit someone with a backsweep/stab, you need to make sure they are directly behind you for maximum effect.

 

This also applies, to a lesser degree, to other swings. For instance, if I anticipate that my opponant will soon be infront of me but somewhat off-center to the left or right it would make sense for me to execute a Red Stance back-and-left (or back-and-right depending on what side they would be on) swing. In order to hit them with the begining portion of this swing I wouldn't want to be looking directly at them, but if I don't look directly at them then my CSC won't be small and red.

 

So I guess after all that my question is this: Is it better to aim my

saber swing or aim my crosshair? It seems to me (and of course I could be wrong) that right now it's better to aim the crosshair and that seems counterintuitive.

 

EDIT: FYI in-game I'm Soylent Green (and incase i didn't say it GREAT FRIKIN MOD!)

 

All saber damage is derived from the position of the saber in its animation. The CSC doesn't help you do more damage, it only affects blocks/parries/breakers, etc.

 

It's usually best to aim with your crosshair, and not try to hit someone with your saber early or late in the swing animation. If you want to hit someone in a particular manner, you'll need to test all of the different swings at your disposal and choose the one that gives you the effect you want. Keep in mind that even in the official version, swings always did the most damage at the mid-point of the swing, so the CSC is just training you to do what you should have been doing all along anyway.

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by els.DarkLord

This 'Pro' MOD is pretty different from what we call 'Jedi Outcast', so basically i wanted to say that I wouldn't be that right if every JK2 ladder and whatever switched to ProMOD as ther official JK2 Competition. It is not JK2 anymore.

 

Be they good or bad, some of the changes are pretty fundamental and do things with JK2 that some will love and others won't like at all. Therefore, it simply WON'T be accepted as a replacement for JK2, so please don't go that route but try to establish something new. 'cause thats what it is. A new game.

 

 

Let go of your autoblock blanket and join the movement for a better JKII!

 

This Mod is actually more like what the game originally was then the patches are. So if anything Raven created a new game in 1.03.

 

The only changes people will hate is that in this Mod it really shows how bad you are. In 1.04 you can escape many tough situations. In this Mod, if you suck, the world will know it. There is no Uberblock and buggy hit detection to save your butt.

 

First time I played it I got beaten like a Rock Stars wife, for like 3 hours. I am starting to get better, but am no where near my 1.02 level...yet.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by CoreyGH

This is unrelated to my last post. These are some things I wouldn't mind seeing added. (these are in jedimod and they seem to work well)

 

Saber throw knockdown ala single player. It just makes sence and it greatly reduces people spamming the move. If you deflect a thrown saber with your saber it gets knocked to the ground.

 

Ability to force push/pull items (also ala single player) Again, this just makes sence and I don't know why they didn't keep it in multi player. You could also do this in the original JK: Dark Forces 2.

 

Those two things are certainly on my list. They've been quite popular suggestions.

 

Call me a sissy but I like some of the emotes in jedimod! Not the tossin the saber type stuff, but the ability to shrug or sit and stuff like that just adds to the game. And yeah, I realize this type of thing isn't high priority and shouldn't be but I'd like to see it eventually make its way in.

 

The key word there is, "eventually". I'm going to have to add an animation or two for the final version, so depending on the difficulty, they may get in at some point.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Chaynsaw

I haven't had a chance to get back to Jedi Outcast yet, but I'd like to know if ProMod lets you use the "illegal models" that were fixed in 1.03. I thought there were too few models/levels in original JO, and was curious as if those would be allowed again in this or another release of ProMod. Sans the "hands-only" model, i think all the others are pretty fun alternatives to the rather dreary selection confronted with in the menu.

 

Since JediMod and ProMod seem to be the most oft-discussed and popular modifications to JO, is there any chance we'll see some sort of collaboration? I haven't played either but they both sound fun. I was thinking, take the combat system from ProMod and the extra goodies from JediMod, make it into some kind of hybrid mod that all players can embrace.

 

There's a lot of stink going on in the coding forum over this type of thing. I'd be very hesitant to do anything like this unless I knew the author personally.

 

I wonder how Raven and LucasArts feel about this. ProMod has released to far more praise (proportionally) than any of their patches, and seems to modify quite a bit more than they have, in a shorter amount of time. Could it be that we always hate the establishment and lionize its oppressed?

 

Very comprehensive saber guides, Artifex. You have quite a presence in the JO community. Perhaps they have a job waiting for you at LucasArts or Raven.. haha!

 

A job at Raven...damn, i'd never want to go home.

[ArtifeX]

All the spinning moves are unsafe only because they take longer to complete the swing. You are much more vulnerable while swinging your saber than at any other time, except for wielding a gun. The only way they can really be used is by inserting them into a chain of attacks, hoping to throw off your opponent's timing.

 

 

Originally posted by Jah Warrior

When I play i use a lot of spinning moves to sort of wind up into an attack, relying on instinct really. Its a bit tricky to explain what i mean with out being able to show you exactly.

 

The thing is that the mod sort of makes spinning moves to dangerous to contemplate using, thus reducing the diversity and number of effective moves available to the player.

 

Its almost like you get punished for using moves that took a great deal of practice and skill to use. the yellow normal swings seem as though they are the only 'safe' moves to use. It makes the multiple hit combos far too risky to use and that makes the fights less enjoyable to watch and dare i say play.

 

This is just my opinion I'm not slamming this mod, its a great piece of work.

[ArtifeX]

I agree, this isn't the official version any longer, and those who want to play it well will have to learn a new skillset. That is a lot to ask, but I believe that it will be worth it in the long run.

 

Why? Because playing a game well that relies heavily on random numbers is not, and will never be, as rewarding as playing a game that eschews them for skill. And that is what the competitive player wants: the thrill and respect garnered from outthinking and outmaneuvering your opponent, not being handed a victory because a computerized random number generator decided that you would get a Defense Breaker at that critical moment. The latter only leads to a lackluster sense of victory for the winner, and frustration for the loser.

 

I say that a victory gained from a roll of the dice is no victory at all!

 

Originally posted by els.DarkLord

One thing i wanted to point out (sorry, if someone already did this, but who cares):

This 'Pro' MOD is pretty different from what we call 'Jedi Outcast', so basically i wanted to say that I wouldn't be that right if every JK2 ladder and whatever switched to ProMOD as ther official JK2 Competition. It is not JK2 anymore.

 

Be they good or bad, some of the changes are pretty fundamental and do things with JK2 that some will love and others won't like at all. Therefore, it simply WON'T be accepted as a replacement for JK2, so please don't go that route but try to establish something new. 'cause thats what it is. A new game.

 

I don't want to flame or anything, just trying to point this out :/

 

The fact that I don't like some of the changes has nothing to do with this post, and I won't annoy anyone with my personal opinion.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Ged

For the first time in months i really want to play this game again, & not just merely coast on auto (Like i suspect a lot of ppl have been doing), just to keep my hand in.

 

This is exactly what ProMod was intended for.

[Xenoeye]

Originally posted by ArtifeX

 

This is exactly what ProMod was intended for.

 

Yeah if they took the fast paced skill out anymore JK2 would've been turnbased if they released another patch.

It's like you did a move and waited for it to finish.

 

Linking accuracy to damage was a great idea, now you actually try to make sure you hit and not just do the button presses in the general direction of you opponent, also saving yellow and blue has made everything that little bit faster.

[Dark Begger]

I think that ArtifeX's mod is quite good for competition (aside from the little nit pick about saber damage variation), and competition only. But hey, that's what he's making this mod for. I feel that new players will not be able to get into this mod easily, since it requires skill to kill, and most like to jump into a game, and think they are automatically 'good at it'.

 

So What I think will happen is that even if ArtifeX takes the mod to the next level, put on all ladders, new players can still play 1.04 or Jedimod, get accustomed to it (more like, get some skill and learn to love the game) and if they are in the need for competition, they can upgrade to promod and go for the ladders.

 

Once again, ArtifeX is nto going for the general JK2 player here nor is he trying to replace JK2. He's only creating a new basis for competition where you are ranked on skill, not luck, and hence this mod.

[Rad Blackrose]

Arti, besides the Force Push vs Saber Throw development, will you be implementing something in accordance to single player as to where if you block or deflect a saber throw, it is knocked to the ground? Throw whores are still around these days, it would be nice to see them punished accordingly.

[Dark Begger]

it's a good idea to punish saber throw whores Red Blackrose, but you don't want to nerf it to the point where it is pointless to use. We need to find a balance where it is dangerous to use, but when connected, it is worth using.