griff38 Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Hello, I have played with real people for just under 4 months now. And a game does not go bye without someone being called a cheater. Why? Why is anyone who is winning a cheater? Can any of you who think you are being cheated, site an example? Binding a script is not cheating, adjusting the clientside variable is not cheating. Unless you can sight an example of how they might be cheating, be a man (or woman) and keep your mouth shut Remember, only darkies vote republican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Originally posted by griff38 Binding a script is not cheating, adjusting the clientside variable is not cheating. well it is:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Warrior Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Originally posted by Lightning well it is:rolleyes: scripts may not be cheating but they are only used by people that aint good enuff to do moves themselves - nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Originally posted by Lightning well it is:rolleyes: Yes. I can not believe that this issue is not clear for everyone with half a brain. *sigh* Here we go again: Scripts that give you and UNFAIR ADVANTAGE are cheating. (Yes, that means that all scripts are not considered cheating.) Why would anyone use scripts? >> perhaps 'cause it makes things EASIER, yes? This is somewhat obvious. For example: 'No chance of accidentally rolling forwards when trying to do a blue lunge because of a script that executes it successfully 100% of the time' = unfair advantage. The one and only reason for using scripts >>> scripts make things easier, they give you an advantage If this would not be true, why on earth would anyone use a script to handicap him/herself? AND: Just because it is possible for everyone to take a gun into a boxing match and shoot the opponent, it doesn't make it okay. Just because everyone is able to use a script if they want to, doesn't make it okay. Ok? ....Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted October 27, 2002 Author Share Posted October 27, 2002 Cheating means taking an unfair advantage, since anyone can bind a script how is it unfair? If you don't like playing with scripters then find a server where people don't do it ( like me ). It's not like somebody is holding a light saber to your head. If anything, script binders have made me a better player. Don't be a hater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Originally posted by griff38 a game does not go bye without someone being called a cheater. Why is anyone who is winning a cheater? Binding a script is not cheating, adjusting the clientside variable is not cheating. It's NOT cheating??? How is it NOT cheating??? I think that Luc Solar probably gave the best response I've read -so I'm not going to even bother repeating it. But, if you really feel that 'Scripting' is not cheating then anyone who 'Scripts' should at least do the following: To all of your scripts, add a message that will be displayed for all players to read that will say; "NAME has just excuted NAME OF SCRIPT script". This will at least alert everyone playing that this person is using scripts, and what that script is doing. No big deal, just a simple disclosier. If someone has a problem with it, they can voice it, or leave. If everyone has a problem with it, then the person using scripts can leave, or be polite enough to stop using them. If you are unwilling to tell people you are 'Scripting', if you feel you have to hide them, then I don't see how anyone could say that using Scripts is anything BUT cheating... Seems fair enough to me. Anybody see a problem with that??? This is also beneficial to those who don't script, but have practiced and really have their moves down cold. I have to agree with Griff38, that just because someone is really good doesn't mean they are cheating. Sometimes people get pissed that they aren't the ones winning, and it makes them feel better to call someone a cheater, rather than just admit he/she is just REALLY good at the game. If you find someone who is good, don't call them a cheater. Rather, compliment them, and ask if they'll teach you something. Then you can benefit from their skills and knowledge. Online games should make people some new friends. It should make people enemies. There is no benefit to people dislikeing each other. So, the rule is simple: Play fair, have fun, learn and help each other, and make some new friends. What could be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsaberboy Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 a bunch of people called me cheating one time cause i dodged their sniper shots. lol..then they called me cheating caused i sniped someone in the air a few times. Then i got called a cheater for pushing rockets back in a person's face. oh when will it all end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homosexual Ewok Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Don't worry guys, I'm going to de/recompile the Quake 3 OGC for JK2 and release it as "Chewbaccabot 1.0" in about a week. That should clear up all the script arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 I am sick of this cheating crap. People use scripts, OK, DEAL WITH IT YOU SILLY NOOBS. If you don't like it...TOO D@MN BAD! I can't stand them since they through my game off but if you want to use them go for it, I really don't give a d@mn since when it all comes down to it, not a one of you can prove to me that you don't use them. If you know someone has a script the EXPECT IT!! Scripts don't change you silly monkeys so if you see them then anticipate and deal with it. I am so gald I play 1.02 and don't have to deal with you freaks everyday. In 1.02 the only fool that screams cheater is the same fool that asks "how do you roll?" hehe THE END FLAME AWAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acer Palmatum Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Am I missing something? If someone is using a tool that others can use themselves, how is that unfair or cheating? That's like saying "I have a keyboard, but choose not to use it, so you shouldn't either". Like those brats that whine about kicking being unfair. Learn to get around it, or learn to out-kick the kicker. "Oh, you force pushed me off the ledge! How wimpy!". You don't like using the force in your games? Play Quake. Play 1942. Play DOOM for cryin' out loud. When playing JKII, expect people to kick and use the force. If players can kick, they WILL. Expect them to work as a team in team games, and hide up on that ledge where the lone players can't jump to, or gang up on your flag carrier. Expect them to use your lag against you. Expect them to get you caught up in combo moves that you can't seem to get out of. If scripts are available, be prepared to meet those that choose to use them. If they are beating you, perhaps you should use them too. If you think it's unfair, find a game that doesn't have them, 'cause if the option is available, people will use it. So, to define cheating, here's the Webster's definition. I think we are concerned with "v. intr. 2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards. ". This would imply that the rules are the game as it stands in it's accepted and final form by it's creator I can only assume. Hence then technically, anyone using mods is a cheater, and anyone using built in scripts (which were designed into the game) or kicks (same), hidden or high ledges (same), combos (etc.), or anything else built into the original game is not a cheater. But then again, if the accepted convention of gaming embraces mods, and the mods are available for all to DL and use, I think that is not cheating either. As long as all players know the RULES ahead of time, like posting in the server name "v1.02" or "JediPLUS 3.0" or "no chatkilling" or "no camping". If everyone attending a given server is there of their own will, and the rules say "no scripts" and you are caught using them (see Syfo-Dyas' post above), then you are kicked and/or banned for cheating. It is cheating then, because it is against the convention of the players on that server. If it's not a posted rule, and anyone can do it, it is not cheating. So to summarize < whew! > Only one person can use the advantage, and does so = cheating. Anyone can use the advantage, there is no rule against it, and some choose not to because of some kind of lame code of ethics that was not agreed to by all the players = not cheating. It = naive on the part of the "you're cheating" whiners. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI OUTCAST Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 cheating is good it gets you places that you can not go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticSpade Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 cheaters and script users have no place in REAL competition. i have no difficulty takin down a script user. actually they leave themselves open while tryin to push their scripted key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Agreed, exploiting bugs etc has no place in a real game, but its always fun to mess about on a public server with map glitches and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK_Nutritious Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 speaking of map glitches *cough* det plz watch trick jumping video *cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Break_dF Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Chewbaccabot Unnamed?...WTF? 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Originally posted by TK_Nutritious speaking of map glitches *cough* det plz watch trick jumping video *cough* Already taken care of, I could release Bespin Towers SE right now if I wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UgonDieFoo Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Acer Palmatum laid the smack down, and he knows what he's talking about. I agree with everyhing he said. For those of you who consider scripts to be cheating you ought to read his post. And btw I don't use scripts and don't even know how to, for anyone who thinks I do cause of what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Oh for the love of god... Originally posted by Acer Palmatum Am I missing something? If someone is using a tool that others can use themselves, how is that unfair or cheating? Yes. You are missing something. Let me try to get you to understand: The argument is, as you said: "It's not cheating because everyone can do it!" Now take a game of golf. You take your swings and let the next guy on the green. Just as he swinging, you take your golf club and smack him in the face with it. No problem here, he can do it too. And there's not any rule that spesifically fordbids this. Great logic. I'd really hope that I don't have to see this retarded "others can do it too"-argument ever again. Btw - I'd bet that half of the people browsing these forums don't even know what a script is, not to mention knowing how to use one. How can you say that it is "available for everyone", when the vast, vast majority of people would have to go to considerable lenghts to make a script? Example: If one guy can hack in to FBI's databank, everyone can do it, they just need to learn about hacking and/or get better at it. Like those brats that whine about kicking being unfair. Learn to get around it, or learn to out-kick the kicker. "Oh, you force pushed me off the ledge! This and the other crap where you try to educate us on various CTF-strategies has absolutely nothing to do with scripts. "If scripts are available, be prepared to meet those that choose to use them. If they are beating you, perhaps you should use them too. If you think it's unfair, find a game that doesn't have them, 'cause if the option is available, people will use it. Sure. People suck. But the issue here is: "Are scripts cheating"? There's no question about whether or not people actually cheat. In CS it seems more like a rule than an execption. But this gets us to the next argument: "Other's are using it - that makes it okay for me to use 'em too!" No. The fact that someone else is doing it has no relevance whatsoever. Example: "It is okay for me to beat down all my competitors in golf with a golfclub because I heard in the news that some maniac did that too a while back." There is no relevance. All it is is a lousy excuse that gives half-witted people a break from their bad conscience. So, to define cheating .......Hence then technically, anyone using mods is a cheater, and anyone using built in scripts (which were designed into the game) or kicks (same), hidden or high ledges (same), combos (etc.), or anything else built into the original game is not a cheater. That logic if flawed. A mod is a mod. All players are playing the same game. No-one with half a brain needs a rigid definition for cheating to help them decide what is and what isn't cheating. Especially not in a case that is so obvious. If everyone attending a given server is there of their own will, and the rules say "no scripts" and you are caught using them (see Syfo-Dyas' post above), then you are kicked and/or banned for cheating. It is cheating then, because it is against the convention of the players on that server. If it's not a posted rule, and anyone can do it, it is not cheating. Again, I disagree. Cheating is cheating period I'll illuminate my point: Two guys play JO. The other proposes that they'll both use "helpusobi1". The other boy agrees and so they start messing around with cheat codes. Now...at exactly what point did "helpusobi1" "noclip" and all the god-mode-insane force rank-etc-stuff seize to be cheats? Just because they both agreed, it doesn't mean that cheats suddenly aren't cheats. They simply made a rule. And the rule was: *Cheating is okay*. So to summarize < whew! > Only one person can use the advantage, and does so = cheating. Anyone can use the advantage, there is no rule against it, and some choose not to because of some kind of lame code of ethics that was not agreed to by all the players = not cheating. It = naive on the part of the "you're cheating" whiners. End of story. Guys..just take a moment to think about what you're doing when creating a script. I'm not going to put an example here of all that needs to be done...but, jesus! It doesn't occur to you at any point that you might be bending the rules a bit? I'd like to comment on the so often used "it is in the game"-argument while am at it. Hopefully I never have to see that one again either. A lot of things are "in the game". Helpusobi1 and noclip are in the game. Are they not cheats? They are? Even though they're In The Game?!?!? Great. Now please spare me from hearing such nonsense from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedrin Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 I script lunge. It is faster then non scripted lunge. I'm not going to be at a disadvantage becuase someone else has it scripted. If anyone thinks they can beat me overall in a 10 game match (1.04) NF, let me know. Send me an email at casca3200@hotmail.com and we can arrange a time to play. Btw, I don't spam lunge if thats what your thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahs Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 That was well put Luc Solar. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 So it would also be considered cheating to disable force-speed trails? saber-trails? alter the cg_fov variable? change the hud to the simplified one which provides more information about mana? All of these can only be changed via the console. the majority of people don't know about them, and they all give the person using them an advantage. While we're at it, lets talk about keyboard configs, what if someone spends ages developing the most efficient keyboard configuration for their playing style? Nobody else uses it, and it would give them one hell of an advantage. Surely recording a demo of me playing on a public server and viewing it later so that I can learn from my mistakes gives me an advantage? None of the demo-recording commands are in the manual, so therefore the people who know how to do it are quite select. What about Team Communications scripts? I mean come on, they allow fast and efficient communication between team-members during the game, without even having to stop and type. Heck they can use them whilst in mid-air avoiding snipers. They give your team a massive advantage in CTF play. Is this cheating? Surely only the people who know how to script can get this advantage? The fact is, combo scripts work well against newbie players, but against experienced players you need the flexibility and freedom to improvise in order to stand a chance. All my examples above give you an advantage no matter who you use them against, combos only give you an advantage against weaker players? Yet you consider the later to be cheating? Look at it this way, I play on public servers to improve my skills, since the gameplay is much more unpredicatable. If I came across somebody who blatantly used combo scripts I would relish the challenge, how often do you get the chance to try and beat someone who can perform complex moves everytime, flawlessly. In honesty, I think combo-scripts are cheating somewhat, but they are a challenge to be beaten, not an evil to whine about. Afterall they don't make you invincible, they don't let you fly, they don't let you walk through walls and they don' give you infinite ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 DeTRiTiC is correct. His attitude about these scripters is a "winners mindset" which is to say he sees these things as challenges that he apparently enjoys over coming. Everyone who wastes their time typing insults on servers about cheaters, whores, and spammers; lack this instinct and thus are usually not the best players. Some of you on this thread seem like the type that prefers to complain about everything instead of testing yourself against it. BTW all that stuff DeTRiTiC mentioned about adjusting in the console is true. Scripts can sometimes do more harm to your game then good when faced with good opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondrahosek Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 When scripting can't be blocked by using the MAP command instwad of the DEVMAP command, why don't we contact Raven to make a new patch? Until now, I have heard two arguments that might need a new patch: - Deflecting laser shots with Force Push should have an option in the Setup menu to switch it on and off for the ones who think deflecting lasers with a semi-abstract way is like telling George Lucas he should eliminate the saber, and on for those, who want to escape a firefight with having some fun. - This cheating/scripting thing. Raven should block setting variables which may make an unfair game, and disable scripts that may do the same. This will surely not affect the server *owner*, whom the other players can tell he is unfair by exiting his game. If the map is not started with the DEVMAP command, no one will be able to change anything (only the server owner, who will add bots). If the map IS started with the DEVMAP command, the players may cheat for themselves, but not edit variables like fraglimit, dowarmup, saberdamagescale or timelimit (which is again the owner's job). But is it really such a hard job to browse the Internet or share the knowledge with others? When we are already so bad and cheat, why don't we give others the chance? This might be because of the good old My-knowledge-is-only-mine--I-am-Emperor-Palpatine system. (I have many more psychological questions.) So, DO bother putting all the knowledge on the Internet, and you surfers, DO BOTHER READING THEM!!! We will never be able to wipe out the evil away. It's again the whole thing behind Star Wars: There is always something good in the evil (Darth Vader helping Luke to shut the Emperor down), and there is always something evil in the good (Luke flipping out and nearly killing the Emperor if Vader wouldn't block the saber). Tiny poll: Anybody understood, what I wrote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 I choose A: Not Really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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