ondrahosek Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Thank you for your post to the poll. You will be now taken back to the forum, where ondrahosek will ask you THE question: What did you not understand? Send me a Private Message with that. I see the forum is now filled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Before I commence my input, I will draw readers' attention to the fact that I for one consistently constrain myself to abide by a stringent code of honour, and expect the same of members of my clan, [FW]. However, I do not expect those outside my clan to abide by the same code. I'd like them to, but I would be foolish to expect them to, and indeed foolish to ask them to. Those who like honour naturally gravitate towards a clan that will cater for those needs, and if someone is not already honourable, there's not much chance that a plea from another player will make them so. Having established that, I have to say further that I personally consider anything that adds or subtracts something from the game code, program or engine, is the only thing that can be described as a cheat, because the word "cheat" has become (rightly) synonymous with the word "hack." Hacking the game is cheating, and it is the most dishonourable, most malicious and unpleasant thing anyone can do in an online game. Multiple binds, scripts and/or the use of the mouse wheel in sabre locks... are NOT cheating, however, no matter how much people scream it. This is because of the intractible existence of the question "where does one draw the line?" If using a script is cheating, is tweaking your display settings cheating? Is tweaking your connection cheating? What about forcing player models to make it easier to see and locate opponents, is that cheating? Oh heck, let's go for broke. Is altering ANYTHING from the factory default "cheating?" Is buying a faster computer than anyone else "cheating?" Is having a lower ping than anyone else "cheating?" Is practicing until you're better than everyone else "cheating?" Is a tennis player who buys a better racquet than his opponent a "cheat?" Now you must see the truth. There is nowhere to draw the line. I choose not to use scripts for one reason and one reason only: I cannot be bothered to use them. I've never EVER needed them. But despite my disdain for them, I don't call those who use them "cheats," because if I did, I'd have to label everyone who's ever striven for a legal advantage in a game as a cheat. I locate my enemy's weak spot and attack it. Is that cheating? Is it unfair? No. It's the game. I get a bigger gun than my opponent, and I shoot them with it. Is that cheating? No. It's the game. So we come to the question of rules. Well the simple fact is that there is only one universally accepted rule in the online gaming community, and that is "Thou shalt not cheat." game-hackers are outcasts, and rightly so. People don't have to be nice, people don't have to bow before duels, people don't have to avoid type-killing people. Is this right? Is it just? Who can say? Some people deserve to get killed while typing. Some people don't deserve a bow before a duel, and some people don't deserve niceness in conversation. I and many like me live by the rules of honour, BUT THAT IS OUR CHOICE. We have no right to order others to live by our personal codes. So who has the right to make rules? Only server administrators have the right to make rules, and those rules only apply to the servers they administrate, once again rightly so. What kind of nazi "no gunz no moving no breathing" world would we live in if the vocal majority could force their pedestrian and self-serving codes of conduct down the throats of others? A fascist state, that's what. So be thankful. Because the laws of personal freedom allow people to use scripts and be "k1ck-wh0r3s" and swear and do all sorts of horrible things, because those freedoms exist, we ALL have the freedom to define our own code of honour, we all have free-will. You people may disagree (and vocally) with scripting, and call it "cheating" loudly, but watch out. If a law was passed by the world's governments this evening saying that nobody was allowed to script for the Q3 engine, what would the next law be? "Thou shalt not alter thy game settings from the factory defaults?" Oh, I know... The next law would be "Thou shalt let those who whine a lot, win, in order to make them all happy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homosexual Ewok Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 One Universal truth in online gaming: The first to accuse are usually the ones who use. People always say things like "The majority of players don't hack/cheat; it's just a small portion who ruins it for everyone else." If you agree with that you are living in a very sheltered world. Counter-Strike is plagued with hacks because...well, a very, very large number of the players are hacking. id software was done with Quake 3 after 1.31 patch. A couple of months after the final point release was out, the OGC guys port over their CS multihack to Q3 and guess what? You could not go on to any public server without seeing 7/10 players using it. It caused the most popular mod team for that game (Urban Terror) to halt development on 2.6 until id responded with another patch because the hacking was so common and easy to do. Look people, the script crap can not be stopped; it will not be stopped via a patch, so just deal with it. If a person needs a script do something to begin with, maybe, just maybe they are not good/experienced players. I know plenty of people who use saber lock scripts. I have 0 chance of beating them if we get into a lock. Is that unfair? Sure it is. So what do I do? I never swing the friggen saber at them, I just kick them, toss it at them, whatever. Anything scripted can be avoided just as if it was done manually, just use a little strategy when you play and don't flail around like a drunken chimpanzee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted October 29, 2002 Author Share Posted October 29, 2002 SPIDER AL SAYS, "I consistently constrain myself to a stringent code of honour However, I do not expect those outside my clan to abide by the same code. Ah, a natural born leader, if I ever join a clan I hope it is one like Spiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted October 29, 2002 Author Share Posted October 29, 2002 Master Ewok, when is the frater active? I have it in my favs and I have never seen it open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Originally posted by griff38 SPIDER AL SAYS, "I consistently constrain myself to a stringent code of honour However, I do not expect those outside my clan to abide by the same code. Ah, a natural born leader, if I ever join a clan I hope it is one like Spiders. I really should say something but I will be nice today. Originally posted by griff38 Master Ewok You also replaced the word "homosexual" with "master" what's the deal with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Break_dF Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 That would be b/c Griff knows that ewok can kick his @$$.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Omega Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Spider just saved my time, he just brought out the same point. Basically, he's just saying this: Anything in the game is not cheating. Scripting is in the game, therefore not cheating. If you don't know how to do it, it doesn't mean he's cheating. If one guy knows all stances, but a newbie only knows blue stance, does that mean the one who knows all is cheating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 The script argument eh? Well, if we were playing street fighter and you had scripts, I'd say you were cheating. The whole basis of the game is who is both strategic and proficient with the joystick and buttons. If you ever set your game to do all the special moves and crap together just by pressing a button, you just ruined the whole structure of the game. Plus, the program isn't really user friendly in terms of programming the moves in, though I'm sure it can be done. JK2 is another matter though. If you use scripts for special moves, well, it's in the game, I can bind keys to use certain items rather than use a tedious button to scroll through the menu, so I guess you can program some stuff into one button. If you use it to do lunge and all that... well, I'm a purist, I have to go with Spider and say I have no need for them, or a want. I'd say there is a limit though... if you have a script that prevented people from beating you ever, then I guess you've crossed the line in terms of honor, but I have never encountered something like that. Counterstrike is ridden with scripts. In that game, scripting effects the game a great deal more than JK2. It's really sad though, because that it doesn't just provide something as simple as doing a lightsaber move, which we all know is one of the least frightening things in the game. I feel scripting is like using the FAMAS in Firearms 2.6. It's in the game, and it's programmed as is, but the gun is so powerful that it's hard to miss. You kill faster with that smaller gun than you do with some of the more expensive ones. But hey, it's your perogative, go ahead, but you get no respect or love from me. Of course, JK2 scripting isn't as extreme as that... sometimes. If you use scripts, be my guest, just always take into account where your skills came from what your opponents setup is like before you start talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted October 30, 2002 Author Share Posted October 30, 2002 That would be b/c Griff knows that ewok can kick his @$$.... Yes, but I refered to him as master because I respect him. Unlike you Break_df. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Break_dF Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 You lost me there...I don't respect him/you? You don't respect me?...You aren't very clear there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homosexual Ewok Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Originally posted by FatalStrike You also replaced the word "homosexual" with "master" what's the deal with that? Play me sometime... Only guy I can't beat is Break_df...the #1 ranked (and one insanely amazing) full Force dueler in this game. Hell, I don't think anyone could take that monster 10/0. And griff our server is up, we just had it locked cuz of TWL matches/practice. You should respect Break_df too man, he's a good guy; he just beats up on people so bad it makes him seem mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted October 30, 2002 Author Share Posted October 30, 2002 You aren't very clear there.......... ok I would have no idea if you respect Ewok or not, I mean I don't have much respect for you. Sorry if I was not clear. OH great now i am a pit droid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoshi Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 well just put it this way.... cheating is more or less using some kinda external program to help you win. being resourceful is using the variables that are set in the game to your greatest advantage. who really cares anyways though. there's no absolute way to prove that anyone actually cheated. if it really makes you feel better then go ahead and accuse them of cheating, but if you ever wanna get better you should observe them and see what they're doing that you arent. i personally dont even see the point of cheating even though i play this game to compete and win. what's the point of saying "i beat you but i had to have a helluva lot of help to do it"? i would rather say "i beat you because i'm more skilled than you and if you happened to cheat that just means i'm that much better than you are." overall cheating does not improve one's playing ability all that much. even if you do use every cheat in the book, someone who is truly great will win every time because they will know how to adapt to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondrahosek Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 SPIDER AL is fully right. Everybody draws the line elsewhere. What IS and what IS NOT cheating? Define this to me. I'm sure that your opinion is quite different from mine. It is going to be the question of the server "master". He is going to draw the line. If Raven will proceed with the 1.05 request, he might be the one. If not, *sigh* draw the line yourself. *a very heavy sigh* At the end of the day, we will once more hear the sentence that always exists, even if we remove the planets, sabers, starships and other surreal things. Humans are built this way. There is always something good in the evil, and something evil in the good. This is not a sentence from the Star Wars world. It is the sentence from this world. Everyone cheats. Even my friend, who is a real introvert, and who wouldn't do anything illegal, walks down the staircase, which is only for shoes, with his slippers. He tries to cover it up by saying, "Everyone does that!" Still, he is cheating, doing something illegal. I can be really sentimental. And, because of all the things happening in my school, I am good at psychology. I learn more and more because of the two choleric teachers (class teacher *shoot!* and the german teacher (who "bosses" the other German group around; I am happy to be in the better group, where the teacher is really nice to everyone)) we have in our school, and the other two-legged cretins (teachers) who teach me everything I will "need", but mainly teach me life. (And if the cretins don't drive me crazy, I am OK with them.) My opinion to it all - this world and the life - varies. But there is one word that describes it best: DUHHHHHHHHHHH! (OK, let's say I have something in common with that smiley under my name.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehomicidalegg Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 my stance on combat script is that if you are mucking around and the other person(s) know you are going to use scripts, then its fine, but if its a competitive match, using scripts are only fooling yourself. Although Scripts only does what other ppl can do without scripts(except for teh yawspeed adjustments), by scripting, one is facilitating the execution of a move that would otherwise be more complicated relatively (e.g running lunge) and gives the user an UNFAIR advantage... unless both of you are using scripts. As for most ppl dont know about scripts, i hate to sound pessimistic, but at least a significant portion of players use scripts ... the most common being teh sabrelock breaking script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsaberboy Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 what's the saber lock breaking script? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 the saberlock breaking script does all the attack tappin and stuff for you when you get into a saberlock. So, rather than pushing the attack button and force pushes to win, you just have this script do the command for you, and of course it can do it a million times faster, hence destroying your opponent every time you get in a saber lock, unless he also has a script. Don't get it. It's not worth it. Of course, some people are so worried about winning that they'll do whatever it takes to simplify the game to the point that everything is done for them. Like I said before, and I'll say again. Use scripts all you want, just remember where you got your skills FROM before you start talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acer Palmatum Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok If a person needs a script do something to begin with, maybe, just maybe they are not good/experienced players. Or maybe they are a great gamer for fully analyzing the scope of the game, and taking the best course of action they can to win. And on a different note... It's a great thing this modern world. We all seem to have the right now to redefine the language we use to our own personal liking. Cheating is not a term that is open for debate or opinions. Cheating is breaking the rules. Period. At least if we are to accept that the Webster's Dictionary is a compilation of accepted words and their definitions in the English language. If you like, you can look it up in the Oxford Dictionary, but I think you will find a very similar definition. Show me where YOU have YOUR rules posted, and I'll tell you who is a cheater. If you have no server with posted rules, then quit whining, live by the rules (anything that is possible) set forth by the game designers, and quit trying to redefine the language on a minute by minute basis to suit your purposes and points. If the game designers thought scripts, binds, combos, etc. were cheating, do you think they would still be in the game? If you don't like it, them make your own server/clan and appropriate rules to go along with it, or STFU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticSpade Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 so i take it Acer that u r one of these script users that no one likes. but my server runs the rules. if they are bent or broken they are kicked off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 scripts don't really help. only the kick script and saber winning script can help and even if you are elite, kicks script won't help you much. in gunning games even those two scripts are useless. so what im saying is scripts don't really help you unless your a complete newb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Break_dF Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Kynes is correct. For the truly skilled, the only script worth even thinking about using is the saber lock breaking script. Personally, I refrain from using it but couldn't f*cking care less if someone uses it. The only thing that pisses me off is when I'm kicked out of 2-3 servers a day for "scripting"...abusive admins and whining n00bs--the world is full of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 i agree for getting kicked. listen to this story. i came in with the leader at about 30 points. in 10 min i was at 40 and the leader at 38 and they kicked me because they said i was a grip whore. i didn't even have grip on cuz i was light. i was mainly pushing. and they were stupid enough to jump near edges. and then all i do is push. when i go in bespin from floor 2 to 3. they force jump with me. and all i need to do is force push. they kicked me because they thought i gripped and i was a lighty . thats pretty crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Break_dF Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 lol, that sh!t happens all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 That is quite sad. I've only got kicked once. (!!) The reason? >> I kicked the admin. He told me stop kicking, but proceeded to DFA-DFA-DFA-DFA-DFA me. It gets boring to just sidestep the, so...I kicked him. He got mad and I was out. ...moron. (I'd still like to point out that the issue whether or not scripts are useful or can be countered is a whole new argument) And yeah...whiners should be shot. The only time I admit commenting on someone's style was back in the 1.03-crazy-spinning (yawspeed)-backstab-assfighting-times. It was sooo ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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