Darth Maul: Loved to be hated

[Darth Petrillo]

Darth Maul revolutionized a new era of dark side villians, I think he should have been kept in for longer.

[thehomicidalegg]

Darth Maul revolutionised (not really:D) the commercialism in Star Wars Movies. The inclusions of these devices for the returns of $$$ continued with Jango in AotC ... Both of them died indignantly because they wont be a money puller in their 2nd movies as the new invention, so they must be confined to one movie.

 

[BigTeddyPaul]

Revolutionized?!? I think not. True enough that he increased the SW universe with the double blade (at least for me. First time I heard of it). He was even a very cool bad guy. BUT what did he do to revolutionize bad guys? He was in it for like a total of a minute, had practically no lines, and only managed to kill off one jedi. What was so great about him?

 

BigTeddyPaul

[Sivy]

qui-gon had to die so obi-wan would have to train anakin,

obi-wan had to kill maul so he would become a jedi knight and then be able to take anakin as his padawan.

maul was a good villian but the story required that he died

[C'jais]

Originally posted by BigTeddyPaul

Revolutionized?!? I think not. True enough that he increased the SW universe with the double blade (at least for me. First time I heard of it). He was even a very cool bad guy. BUT what did he do to revolutionize bad guys? He was in it for like a total of a minute, had practically no lines, and only managed to kill off one jedi. What was so great about him?

 

BigTeddyPaul

 

You know, I'm inclined to say that the same thing can be said about The Fetts, but they didn't even fare as well...

[lukeskywalker1]

his dual saber was very cool, he looked awsome and faught good too, he killed qui gon and took on 2 jedi at the same time.

[-s/<itzo-]

imagine if lucas made a movie based on Darth Maul.

[MysticSpade]

i'd go see that

[ZBomber]

Originally posted by MysticSpade

i'd go see that

 

I second that!

[Boba Rhett]

Naahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. He sucked, I'm glad he, "fell down a well".

[C'jais]

Originally posted by ZBomber

 

I second that!

 

Third'ed.

 

[Jedi_Monk]

I don't think Maul would've been a very good leader of the Sepratist Movement... which begs the question: did Palpatine send Maul down to Naboo because he knew that there was no way that he'd be able to get out alive

 

[Break_dF]

Originally posted by Jedi_Monk

I don't think Maul would've been a very good leader of the Sepratist Movement... which begs the question: did Palpatine send Maul down to Naboo because he knew that there was no way that he'd be able to get out alive

 

 

You give George Lucas more credit that he deserves. If it weren't for the nifty lightsabers, I wouldn't bother going to see the movies.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Break_dF

 

You give George Lucas more credit that he deserves. If it weren't for the nifty lightsabers, I wouldn't bother going to see the movies.

 

HEY!

 

i.... i..... i err....

 

jusforgedaboudit.

[Lord MuRaTuS]

Hehehe.. Well if I summon it like this... I love the SW movies with all of its ingredients, but I'd never love it this much if there weren't any lightsabers.. As a matter of fact I would never watch em on cinema even, if there were no lightsabers!

 

Imagine a Darth Vader without lightsaber. Going around in a stormtrooper rifle ! Damn that would be a pity.

[whitedragon]

Originally posted by Darth Petrillo

Darth Maul revolutionized a new era of dark side villians, I think he should have been kept in for longer.

i cant remember where i heard this but i heard some wacky roumer that there is supposed to be a darth maul clone in ep3 but i agree maul was a major badass and deserved at least more footage in ep1

[BigTeddyPaul]

Originally posted by Cjais

 

You know, I'm inclined to say that the same thing can be said about The Fetts, but they didn't even fare as well...

 

How Bobba dies was incredibly stupid. I mean he was supposed to be the best in the galaxy and he had his rocket pack accidently destroyed which sent him into the Rancor Pit to be destroyed. LAME! Unless you read EU this is all true.

 

Jango was another Maul type guy. He had one before battle at the clone place just like Maul had with Qui on Tatooine. The he died the next time he faced a bad guy.

 

I never did like the Fetts much.

 

I still calim that Bobba(Boba or Bobba. My head hurts) ends up killing Padme.

 

BigTeddyPaul

[Hyperglide]

Originally posted by lukeskywalker1

his dual saber was very cool, he looked awsome and faught good too, he killed qui gon and took on 2 jedi at the same time.

 

Tell us something we DON'T know heh.

 

How Bobba dies was incredibly stupid. I mean he was supposed to be the best in the galaxy and he had his rocket pack accidently destroyed which sent him into the Rancor Pit to be destroyed. LAME! Unless you read EU this is all true.

 

Jango was another Maul type guy. He had one before battle at the clone place just like Maul had with Qui on Tatooine. The he died the next time he faced a bad guy.

 

I never did like the Fetts much.

 

I still calim that Bobba(Boba or Bobba. My head hurts) ends up killing Padme.

 

I agree Boba and Jango are supposed to be such great bounty hunters. Well wtf do they prove it? They don't even kill anyone, just fly around with their jet pack, shoot a few blaster shots, fly around in the Slave I, and look "kewl." I wanna see them really bring it, even the fight vs Obi-Wan, (where he actually wins. But has to retreat) when he was on that water planet sucked. Even though it says on the Star Wars site that he (Jango) killed a few Jedi alone, on the Geonosis Coliseum battle, well I didn't see it, heh. Then he gets owned by, of all wimps, Mace Windu. I mean he didn't even try to deftly dodge Mace's obvious attempt to cleave his head off, not such a great bounty hunter I say.

[wassup]

Even though it says on the Star Wars site that he (Jango) killed a few Jedi alone, on the Geonosis Coliseum battle, well I didn't see it, heh.

 

Jango kills Trebor Coleman during the Geonosis Arena fight, a Jedi Master and a member of the Jedi Council. Also Jango did not have to fight very much during that battle cause they already had the thousands of battle droids doing that.

 

 

Then he gets owned by, of all wimps, Mace Windu. I mean he didn't even try to deftly dodge Mace's obvious attempt to cleave his head off, not such a great bounty hunter I say.

 

Mace Windu is the second-most powerful Jedi, the first being Yoda . NO bounty hunter should last more than a second against him, and Jango just got lucky that he lasted longer just cause of the Reek. And also just because we don't see Mace Windu in action very much doesn't classify him as a "wimp".

[Hyperglide]

Mace Windu is the second-most powerful Jedi, the first being Yoda . NO bounty hunter should last more than a second against him, and Jango just got lucky that he lasted longer just cause of the Reek. And also just because we don't see Mace Windu in action very much doesn't classify him as a "wimp". [/b]

 

Well seeing as he already had killed a few Jedi Master's, already what makes Mace so special?

 

Like you already said we only see him for so long. So what made him the 2nd most powerful Jedi, so don't "classify him," as such, either (granted he's 2nd in command of the Jedi Council but it doesn't mean he "rapes" in combat?). He's not that great, he looked rather boring on screen to me. I shouldn't have classified him as a "wimp," I just wanted to see the kind of reaction i'd get. I don't like Jedi's "holier then thou," mentality I want to see a couple die to someone other then Sith so they don't appear so, indestructible. Maybe thats what George Lucas was aiming for, but come on, be at least somewhat realistic George.

 

Morever, the Fetts are one of the main villains in the whole Star Wars universe. Fan's enjoy them more then boring trade federations droid soldiers, or Jabba the Hutt's henchmen. Show him (Jango) in action for a good 2-3 mins per action sequence, not just show him firing a few round's of laser fire, then get decaptitated by a rather untried (on screen) Jedi like Mace. At least show some respect George, and let someone like Anakin whoop his ass (then you could actually make it like a side story that Boba actually hate's Vader and has something planned for him later on).

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by Darth Petrillo

Darth Maul revolutionized a new era of dark side villians...

 

In what way? If you mean in terms of martial arts, yes he was good, but hardly revolutionary. If you mean in terms of the Dark Side of the Force, and the capacity for Evil, I have to totally disagree.

 

I always thought the problem with Maul was that you never learned about his past. You never hear about how many people he's killed, never see him kill anyone at a whim...you only see him fight two Jedi, and kill one of them...and to all intents and purposes he was simply in a battle situation there.

 

I mean, if you look at Vader, one of the first things you learn about him is that he exterminated the Jedi. He actively hunted them down to kill them. And one must assume that there were quite a few Jedi left to terminate - including those child Jedi apprentices at the Academy. One of the first things you see him do in ANH is Grip someone who is obviously not his match in any way, just because they disagree with his zealous notions of superiority.

 

If you had seen Maul kill innocents in TPM, just for the hell of it, and had learned that in the past he had killed multitudes at a whim, then he would simply have equalled Vader in the Evil stakes. Of course, this should also have meant that the Jedi Council should at least have heard of people dying at the hands of some rogue Jedi in the past...

 

So, if Maul had arguably not gone on killing sprees in the past - then his Evil had to be shown during his screen time in the film. Something that was never done, IMO. The only person you see him kill is Qui-Gon, and you could argue that he was defending himself against two powerful Jedi.

 

In fact, I would argue that Anakin Skywalker in AOTC is more Evil than Maul, simply because he butchered an entire tribe of Sand People, including the children, to avenge the death of his mother.

 

And Grand Moff Tarkin was probably even more Evil than Darth Vader in ANH, because he oredered the destruction of an entire planet and the deaths of millions of people without remorse or compassion.

 

I think he should have been kept in for longer.

 

I agree. If nothing else, Maul should have had more screen time, and more things to do in TPM. Lucas should have done more to set him up as a villain in the grand tradition by showing us the terrible things he had done. After all, you can only really judge someone by their actions...not merely by their intentions. Most of the best screen villains are usually readily noticeable by their cruel actions against innocents. Maul should have been given more time to be bad.

[Darth Groovy]

Originally posted by Darth Petrillo

Darth Maul revolutionized a new era of dark side villians, I think he should have been kept in for longer.

 

Wow, now that was a mouthful. Did you write that all by yourself? I'm surprised all these people managed to salvage a discussion out of this.

 

Darth Maul is just plain cool. He gets all the chicks too:

 

clickie!

[Hyperglide]

Originally posted by StormHammer

I mean, if you look at Vader, one of the first things you learn about him is that he exterminated the Jedi. He actively hunted them down to kill them. And one must assume that there were quite a few Jedi left to terminate - including those child Jedi apprentices at the Academy. One of the first things you see him do in ANH is Grip someone who is obviously not his match in any way, just because they disagree with his zealous notions of superiority.

 

I don't remember that, they never explained his past in ANH? You find out from earlier episodes, from him slaughtering the Sandpeople (and more probably in Episode 3). If he's so good that he was able to kill all the Jedi (I assume u mean singlehandedly I hope thats not what u meant), then how come he gets his ass utterly whooped by Obi-Wan? He is near death with grievous wounds, and has to rely on a pressure suit to keep him alive? Also a his son Luke, who was still very much a novice was able to best him (granted he's old, but so was Obi-Wan).

 

Vader Gripped the other admiral because he was completely, renouncing Vader's prowess. As a Dark Lord he was proving to the admiral that the "hokey religion," was very powerful indeed. Also remember Grand Moff Tarken interjected, Vader didn't kill him, he was just making a point, and example out of him, to the others. Quite like the Mob does. The admiral had it coming.

 

If you had seen Maul kill innocents in TPM, just for the hell of it, and had learned that in the past he had killed multitudes at a whim, then he would simply have equalled Vader in the Evil stakes. Of course, this should also have meant that the Jedi Council should at least have heard of people dying at the hands of some rogue Jedi in the past...

 

You can see the evil in Maul's visage. He exudes it you don't have to know his past. You know just by looking at him that "Wow," he's got some problems, heh. You don't actually see Anakin or Vader killing innocent's. He might've sentenced them to die (stormtroopers killing them, etc.) or did some of the dirty work himself, but just because you don't see him do it, doesn't mean Maul didn't do it either. You just don't hear of Maul doin' it but if you read StarWars.com you'd learn that Maul has only been training to wipe out the Jedi. Seems pretty devoted and demented to me, to dedicate all your time just for simple destruction, and murder.

 

When Vader gripped this "innocent," he was interrogating him to find VERY IMPORTANT file's regarding the super station Death Star. He wasn't so innocent btw this was a rebel, the empires sworn enemy's. I actually think Vader is rather timid in some cases. Look at the way he deals with Leia, and Han Solo. He lets an interrogator droid do the dirty work for him. Plus we all know Vader early has good in him just from, his relation to Luke. So Vader wasn't just mercilessly slaughtering children, he was at war. Don't forget the admirals he killed, had it coming that's the price you pay for, messing up in tyrannic empires. Same goes for crime familys like the Mob, etc. Vader is almost a galatic Mobster, heh.

 

So, if Maul had arguably not gone on killing sprees in the past - then his Evil had to be shown during his screen time in the film. Something that was never done, IMO. The only person you see him kill is Qui-Gon, and you could argue that he was defending himself against two powerful Jedi.

 

It was accomplished. You have to just look at him. Feel his hatred. You can hear it in his voice he has an aura about him. That makes it even more special, because you don't have to build his character up. You know almost right away lookin at his silhouette in the holocron that he's a twisted Sith. You only see Vader kill five people. Doe's quantity matter? Or quality. Vader's five on screen kills were just meer peon's, save Obi-Wan who sacrificed himself no less, compared to Maul's. He legitmately lays waste to an accomplished Jedi Knight. And fends of two at a time, in other area's.

 

In fact, I would argue that Anakin Skywalker in AOTC is more Evil than Maul, simply because he butchered an entire tribe of Sand People, including the children, to avenge the death of his mother.

 

Thats just revenge pure and simple, anyone would've done that in there right mind at first, Lucas needed a reason for Anakin to begin succumbing to the Dark Side this was an opportunity. Just because there's lack of substance for Maul's darkness, doesn't make him any less, evil. Look at the way he fights with pure zeal and anger and hatred, thats enough concrete evidence for me. Then he try's to bait the Jedi by taunting them and sneering at them purely disgusted by them, can't u see it? Then when he wastes Qui-Gon with a very deft move, he rub's it in just to draw out Obi-Wan's anger so he can amplify his own power's, by feeding off Obi-Wan's anger.

 

And Grand Moff Tarkin was probably even more Evil than Darth Vader in ANH, because he oredered the destruction of an entire planet and the deaths of millions of people without remorse or compassion.

 

I agree. Tarkin was a foul biotch. Don't forget AFTER Leia gave the Tarkin the information about the rebel hidden base, he still proceeded to lay waste to Alderaan.

 

I agree. If nothing else, Maul should have had more screen time, and more things to do in TPM. Lucas should have done more to set him up as a villain in the grand tradition by showing us the terrible things he had done. After all, you can only really judge someone by their actions...not merely by their intentions. Most of the best screen villains are usually readily noticeable by their cruel actions against innocents. Maul should have been given more time to be bad.

 

Yes he should've had more. He was my 2nd favourite villain of Star Wars. But he had enough time to effectively demonstrate his evil. I just wished we could've seen more of his force prowess, and star fighter skill's, and perhaps cause a bit more mayhem.

[Darth Groovy]

George Lucas new damn well he could give Maul about three lines and he would still come off as super cool. He took an important view from the success of the Boba Fett character; sometimes the less you know about the villian the more mysterious he/she becomes. The mystery is what adds to the tention of moments like when Darth Maul first looks up at Qui-Gon, and Obi-Wan. That is the best moment in all of the Star Wars films. You just knew he was not only ready to kick some ass, but that he had been waiting for that moment all of his life.

 

_"At last we shall have revenge!"

 

Too bad it never he never got his revenge, Lucas did let him take down one Jedi with realative ease, but it is pertinant to the message that Lucas conveys to his young audience. Revenge provokes violence, violence is met with violence, which eventually leads to death, death begets death. Darth Maul may have died but that moment and that message is forever imprinted into the lobes of my mind.

[Hyperglide]

Originally posted by Darth Groovy

George Lucas new damn well he could give Maul about three lines and he would still come off as super cool. He took an important view from the success of the Boba Fett character; sometimes the less you know about the villian the more mysterious he/she becomes. The mystery is what adds to the tention of moments like when Darth Maul first looks up at Qui-Gon, and Obi-Wan. That is the best moment in all of the Star Wars films. You just knew he was not only ready to kick some ass, but that he had been waiting for that moment all of his life.

 

_"At last we shall have revenge!"

 

Too bad it never he never got his revenge, Lucas did let him take down one Jedi with realative ease, but it is pertinant to the message that Lucas conveys to his young audience. Revenge provokes violence, violence is met with violence, which eventually leads to death, death begets death. Darth Maul may have died but that moment and that message is forever imprinted into the lobes of my mind.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. Oh wait lol I did, somewhat.

 

Great post you touched up more about Darth Maul that I tried explaining earlier. He did actually beat both Jedi rather easily. Don't forget Obi-Wan was bested. Only by calming his emotions was Obi-Wan finally able to surprise Maul.

 

Yes looking at the 2 Jedi's, you could see Maul's epitaph had been reached. He was finally about to go into hardcore battle with 2 accomplished Jedi's. That show's his evil right there. Everything he'd worked for was finally going to be tested.

 

I think they got rid of Maul in TPM because they needed a reason for Obi-Wan to reach Jedi Knight status. Rather then drone it out with him drudging through the trials.

 

The revenge begets violence notion, was better proved in AOTC, and how later on Vader become's good again, that eventually good overpowers evil, in the end. There are people who are truely bent on evil Maul was one of these creatures. Maybe Lucas as well couldn't think of a better way to remove him if Kenobi DIDN'T finish him, for the "kid" demographic.