Theory to the Ending

[Jake]

Originally posted by Yufster

Did Ron have anything to do with Day Of the Tentacle? Because that game was truly a work of art

 

Well, Ron co-designed Maniac Mansion with Gary Winnick and some others, and that is the predecessor to DOTT. So, Ron helped invent the Mansion itself as well as Bernard and the Edison family. Don't think he was directly involved in DOTT's story though, just MM's and the characters/locations that both games share. I might be wrong though. The DOTT credits do say "Story by blah blah Ron Gilbert blah blah blah" but that might just be because it takes place after Maniac Mansion.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Does Gary Winnick get a "Story by" credit also? I wonder if Ron Gilbert left some rought ideas for a sequel on his desk when he left?

 

~ Johnny

[scabb]

Originally posted by Alien426

In my opinion the whole being a child is a trick of LeChuck's. I wouldn't like it neither. Elaine herself says that LeChuck must have put a curse on Guybrush. So following the fashion that the viewer/player always sees what's really happening (i.e. the cut-scenes with Largo, LeChuck and the voodoo priest in the fortress) - instead of just what the avatar (Guybrush) sees - I say that she's right.

 

There's a flaw to this. At the beginning of Monkey Island 2, we see Guybrush hanging on the rope, and he recalls the whole story of how he got there - so we are kind of inside Guybrush's head - we're telling Elaine how Guybrush got into this stick situation. If this is the truth though, how would he 'remember' the evil plotting and scheming that Lechuck & Largo got up to?

 

Also, to add fuel to the fire, I think I'll mention that memory is not 'solid' - it's not fixed, it can be altered. You can supress things, or change things to make them seem better. This was brought to light in a case in which a Psychologist remembered being rescued by his Nanny from a kidnapper when he was a child. In fact, when he was 18 or so the Nanny returned to the house to tell the family that the incident was bogus, there was in fact no kidnapping, she made it in order to be rewarded.

 

This may or may not amount to anything, as far as I'm concerned I agree with most aspects of Ralgath's article.

[RicardoLuigi...]

He wouldn't remember it, the rope-hanging scene is just and intro that was probably overlooked, then remembered and brought back for amusement. Plus, you're not controlling Guybrush in those cutscenes (or any cutscenes), and therefore they are just "meanwhiles" and just show what was happening, and it is not guybrush explaining it since you're not controlling him, it is to give an idea of what was happening.

[scabb]

That is the alternative, but think about it:

 

"Hi Elaine! Wanna know how I got here? It all began on Scabb Island...."

 

< Big Chunk of Game >

 

"....and that's how I got here!"

 

< Little bit more game >

 

 

You don't necessarily have to be constantly controlling Guybrush, you're simply acting out a memory for him. Besides, it adds no real weight to any side of the argument, it merely suggests that some elements of the story could have been made up or changed by Guybrush, intentionally or not. Like how everybody can remember seeing a close up of Spiffy, the dog in the Scumm Bar, when they played through Monkey Island 1, when in fact that picture could only be found on the box (And Thunderpeel's avatar, see previous threads).

[Gabez]

Yeah, that’s a good point. Further evidence is within the "joke" that appears when you leave Guybrush dangling over the vat of acid for too long. Jokes that are really clues, hmm?

[ThunderPeel2001]

Possibly, but there's a major flaw here: It's no longer his story after he says "that's it".

 

Unless you're telling me that it went like this:

 

"Hi Elaine..."

 

<big chunk of game>

 

"So that's how I got here... and then YOU said to me X and then I fell down a hole and then LeChuck put a curse on me..."

 

Doesn't really work does it?

 

When we get back to Guybrush swinging on a rope with Elaine we're no longer in his "story" (ie. his MEMORY).

 

~ Johnny

[scabb]

Yes, granted that when he collapses, we are controlling him in 'realtime'. That moment is also when the game starts to become 'weird', with the strange rooms and the Star Wars references etc

 

This may be completely irrelevant to the "secret", it may be extremely important to it. I don't really care, I'm happy with the explanation given by Ralgath, but those who are hellbent in explaining this whole thing may find this information explains something.

[Joshi]

wow, i quite this two pages ago and it's still red hot on topic. can't you just give it up? we never found out what happened in COMI so we aren't meant to know. there, i said it.

[RicardoLuigi...]

maybe it's like some paradox in time or something where when you're telling the story, it's in realtime, and when you're in the underground stuff, you're telling a story still and that part where he say's "...and that's when you came..." is part of a dream or something.

 

what am i talking about?

[ThunderPeel2001]

Yes, granted that when he collapses, we are controlling him in 'realtime'. That moment is also when the game starts to become 'weird', with the strange rooms and the Star Wars references etc

 

Sorry to point out the obvious, but isn't it a little coincidental that that's also the EXACT moment that Big Whoop is opened? Isn't it a tad more likely that we're supposed to attribute all weirdness to that?

 

~ Johnny

[scabb]

No, you're completely misinterpreting my point - which I was hoping wouldn't start some kind of nonsensical debate involving headaches and possible time wastage.

 

My point is, that Guybrush is remembering what happened. Therefore everything that has happened in the main part of the game could be viewed through rose-tinted glasses - therefore it might not have really happened like that.

 

I hope I have explained it clearly enough now, I've stated that my loins don't ache for the secret, and I was merely bringing this point to light as I felt it had never been mentioned before, at least not in any threads I have moved my eyes over.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Yes, I completely agree. I think the game just wasn't really made to withstand such close up observances!

 

Oh well!

 

~ Johnny

[RicardoLuigi...]

rose tinted glasses?

 

do you mean like when guybrush gets ko'd momentarily in the bone dance?

[Joshi]

no meaning guybruish only tells elaine what he wants to tell elaine. basically, he may have made up quite a lot of it in the presence of elaine just to impress her when really, some of the more daring and outrageouse stuff may not have happened. but i agree with johnny, these games are silly and funny and were never meant for indepth discussions and analysis'.

[xa4]

Well I haven´t read all the reply´s so if this has already been sayd soorry then:

 

Elaine problebly had a Mansion on ..... island to becouse she isn´t only the Governor of Melee Island but also of the Tri Island area.... (Sorry if I am wrong).

 

She knows were here Grand Father has found the Treasure of Big Whoop. And she see´s the blast so she go s there and she see´s Guybrush hanging there. The the go back to the beginneng becouse Guybrush was telling everything (Story). He was haning there for 3 days before Elaine found him. After that the rope snaps and Guybrush felt. There does he finds Le Chuck wo has seen the blast to and he was waiting for Guybrush to fell (Make sense). So he wants to torture Guybrush (Le Chucks Revenge get it?) But the Voodoo Doll doesn´t works (quit logical becouse Guybrush is the hero and the newer lose) So he´s making a Voodoo doll he now knows how to make one.

 

Now it coms....

 

We all know that Le Chuck can take different forms (Think about MI1 Fester Shintop) So when Guybrush pulls of his leg, he knows he´s losing and can´t fight anymore (He wasn´t afraid of dying becouse he is already dead.)So he take´s the form of his brother Chuckie (How dit he knows how chuckie looks well, I think he has don some reserge). And the go to ONE of the secrets a Theme Park. (This should have been the end, but luckely it isn´t).

 

This is what happend

[Jake]

Originally posted by ThunderPeel2001

Yes, I completely agree. I think the game just wasn't really made to withstand such close up observances!

 

Oh well!

 

~ Johnny

 

I think it was made plenty well for that, but it all falls apart when you try to incorporate CMI and EMI into the discussion of the meanings of the ending, because the designers of CMI and EMI intentionally went a different direction with the story.

[ThunderPeel2001]

But he wasn't incorporating CMI or EMI into his idea... ?

 

~ Johnny

[Yufster]

You're right, it WASN'T made for close observances. Even I've said stuff that's made me laugh at myself afterwards. Seriously, though, there's something in MI2 that we're not getting, or we've already figured out but don't believe it. So long as the "Guybrush the Kid" theory holds no water, I'm happy!

 

I read over every single post and, well, here's what I've concluded.

 

 

1. Monkey and Dinky are one, 'Minky' is connected to Melée, therefore some weird island cross breed which I will refer to as Minkée.

 

Does this suggest either a lack of proper planning on the Team's part, or a really fantastic storyline? If the latter, than a lot of really wacky theories could hold water.

 

 

2. Monkey Island II (And MI1 to an extent) are about past events

 

I don't mean they're set in the past. I mean firstly, Monkey Island I contained a lot of history that few people paid attention too because it didn't seem all too important; IE LeChuck and Elaine's history, some other stuff... nothing really hard. But Monkey Island II is my main point. I mean, it starts with Guybrush relating tales of blowing up Guybrush years ago. There's all this stuff about his parents, his past, and LeChuck having revenge for what happened years ago.

 

 

3. Ron Gilbert is an attention seeker

 

Yes. I do believe he is. Could be wrong.

 

 

 

 

There's other stuff but I'm too lazy to type it all out. Anyway I'd like to raise another point about the reusing of certain backgrounds in MI2.

 

Melee Island Background in the Tunnels and the Fairground Background at the end, are both located close by in the game. I know games aren't made in order of scene, or whatever, but the fact they're so close would suggest two possible answers to me

 

1. The designers were running out of time and nearing their deadline to get the game released, and threw in the backgrounds, tarted up a bit, to compensate for scenes that weren't ready. Maybe this would also explain the LACK OF A DECENT ****ING ENDING.

 

2. The Ending is about some weird crazy **** involving Melee and Booty. Lots of Bootay.

 

I think Theory 1 is preferable.

 

 

But a lot of time was put into the end scene. It seems odd they'd cut back on it for sake of a deadline. The music composed for that part was really wonderful, and went through several painstaking changes using the Imuse system, and a whole bunch of new animation was thrown in there that was only gonna be used once. They went to a lot of bother to design each tunnel slightly differently (which they didn't do in the earlier tunnel, the one that led to the rum pirates house...can't remember his name...waterfall...uh....something). And the room at the end was unnessecarily detailed for a once off room. It just seemed like a lot of extra work, that they would hardly cut away all that work just because they were short on time. Oh god I don't know what I'm trying to say.

 

OKAY, It's just like a whole lot of stuff was designed and composed specifically for that one end scene, never before seen animations and movements, music and scenes, like a huge climax and then.... they walk off through a tarted up recycled background without a proper explanation. See?

[Remi]

Dude, have you been asleep for the past few months? The "kid ending" has been confirmed: Read this. (scroll to question 5)

[EnchiladaMan]

Right. So apparently when the first 2 games just came out, Guybrush was supposedly a kid. But the rights were bought, and to make sequels you get rid of the whole kid idea. It's as simple as that.

 

Think of Starwars. When the first came out, Darth Vader was this mean dude who killed Luke's father. But then a sequel comes, everybody sees that he IS Luke's father. (true, it may have been the original idea, but that doesn't make it less relevent)

 

In the first two, we see that Guybrush was a little kid. But then when Monkey Island 3 comes out, we "find out" he's really NOT a kid in the saga.

 

Is it really all that hard?

[Remi]

For one thing nobody bought anything - LEC always owned the rights to Monkey Island. Then they made CMI, pretty much ignoring the original ending, and sharply straying away from the original storyline and end up taking it all in a different direction. I'm not gonna argue if the direction was a bad thing or not, and i quite like both CMI and EMI for what they are, but you're certainly not too into continuity or storytelling if you believe that ignoring an original storyline is a good thing.

[EnchiladaMan]

For one thing nobody bought anything - LEC always owned the rights to Monkey Island.

True, LEC has, but Ron Gilbert (the creator of MI) doesn't own the rights. He said in a chat (I can't remember which one) that if he had the rights back, he would be glad to do another Monkey Island.

you're certainly not too into continuity or storytelling if you believe that ignoring an original storyline is a good thing.

Whoa! You certainly don't know me then. (well, duh, no one here does. lol) I love storytelling, (I'm currently writing on my 4th long story) and I certainly don't believe that ignoring an original storyline is a good thing. I'm sorry that you think I do. Diverting from the original storyline is like spitting before making sure your grog is green. Your score may be impressive, but you won't go quite as far.

 

But the hard truth is, They did not stick with the original story. The continuity aspect really does irritate me - don't get me wrong. But since they've already made MI3 and 4, I just try to find ways around some of the plot holes to make it seem like it works out.

 

I'm not saying ignore the previous designer's ideas. But I'm also not congradulating the new writers for taking it in a different direction. The games are made. No sense me beating my brains out if they did or didn't follow the continuity I expected. (I still enjoy them all for the most part, but would like Ron Gilbert to work with them on the next one)

 

Hope that clarifies things (the correct way) a bit.

[Yufster]

I don't know. Everything Conflicts. I guess this means Ron was just being awkward by saying, as he did in some chat a while ago, the Guybrush was NOT a kid. Maybe he wanted to keep the legend alive. Myself, I feel my happy bubble is punctured and rapidly losing air. Anybody else?

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, but none of this stops the Kid Ending being really lame. If it were a different STYLE of game, if it had taken a different direction or hinted that Guybrush was a kid in the game before hand, it might have worked. Instead, it was just suddenly thrown in our face. There was the one dream scene by the tree but that's not really enough to hint that he was a kid at all. I'm really surprised that the gamemaking geniuses created such a fabulous game and then put such a lame ending on.

[SamNMax]

Originally posted by EnchiladaMan

True, LEC has, but Ron Gilbert (the creator of MI) doesn't own the rights. He said in a chat (I can't remember which one) that if he had the rights back, he would be glad to do another Monkey Island.

 

 

Exaclly! That's why I don't think Guybrush is a kid.