Kylilin Posted January 2, 2003 Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 Good point edlib, the changes are for the better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taarkin Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 http://film.guardian.co.uk/lordoftherings/news/0,11016,852217,00.html Wraiths and race What with the dark skin, broad faces and dreadlocks, it's a wonder Tolkien didn't give his baddies a natural sense of rhythm, says John Yatt, examining Middle Earth's suspect racial undertones Monday December 2, 2002 It was the same with The Phantom Menace - I had no choice. When part of your childhood is playing down the road on a big screen with surround sound and popcorn, there's no escape. But as the wonder of discovering that there was more to New Zealand than sheep wore off, something began to worry me. Maybe it was the way that all the baddies were dressed in black, or maybe it was the way that the fighting uruk-hai had dreadlocks, but I began to suspect that there was something rotten in the state of Middle Earth. Perhaps Dubya's war on terror is making me a bit uneasy, or maybe it's just good old-fashioned Guardian-reading imperial guilt, but there was something about watching a bunch of pale faces setting off into the east to hack some guys with dark faces into little bits that made me feel a little queasy. When I got home I dug out my copy of The Lord of the Rings from a box somewhere - okay, so I pulled it straight off the shelf - and found there was worse to come. The Two Towers is the story of the battle between Isengard and Rohan. In the good corner, the riders of Rohan, aka the "Whiteskins": "Yellow is their hair, and bright are their spears. Their leader is very tall." In the evil corner, the orcs of Isengard: "A grim, dark band... swart, slant-eyed" and the "dark" wild men of the hills. So the good guys are white and the bad guys are, erm... black. This genetic determinism drives the plot in the most brutal manner. White men are good, "dark" men are bad, orcs are worst of all. While 10,000 orcs are massacred with a kind of Dungeons and Dragons version of biological warfare, the wild men left standing at the end of the battle are packed off back to their homes with nothing more than slapped wrists. We also get a sneak preview of the army that's going to be representing the forces of darkness in part three. Guess what: "Dark faces... black eyes and long black hair, and gold rings in their ears... very cruel wicked men they look". They come from the east and the south. They wield scimitars and ride elephants. Perhaps I'd better come right out and say it. The Lord of the Rings is racist. It is soaked in the logic that race determines behaviour. Orcs are bred to be bad, they have no choice. The evil wizard Saruman even tells us that they are screwed-up elves. Elves made bad by a kind of devilish genetic modification programme. They deserve no mercy. To cap it all, the races that Tolkien has put on the side of evil are then given a rag-bag of non-white characteristics that could have been copied straight from a BNP leaflet. Dark, slant-eyed, swarthy, broad-faced - it's amazing he doesn't go the whole hog and give them a natural sense of rhythm. Scratch the surface of Tolkien's world and you'll find a curiously 20th-century myth. Begun in the 1930s, published in the 1950s, it's shot through with the preoccupations and prejudices of its time. This is no clash of noble adversaries like the Iliad, no story of our common humanity like the Epic of Gilgamesh. It's a fake, a forgery, a dodgy copy. Strip away the archaic turns of phrase and you find a set of basic assumptions that are frankly unacceptable in 21st-century Britain. But it's the same with The Attack of the Clones - I've got no choice. Maybe the fizzy pop will go to my head, maybe the Pearl and Dean music will be able to work its magic, but I'm worried that the popcorn is going to taste a bit wrong - I'm worried that childhood isn't going to be quite so much fun the second time around. Wait, so the guy who sees savage, bloodthirsty monsters and immediately thinks "OMG black people!" is calling other people racist? I wish this was a hoax like that TTT = 9/11 thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 I thought it was a rule that bad guys had to wear black and be 'dark.' I'm surprised he didn't try to claim that the Easterlings=dudes from teh East=ASIANS BAD RAR racisms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Originally posted by Taarkin So to get 10,000 Uruk-hai, Saruman had to first corrupt a bunch of elves to turn them into orcs, then get 10,000 women raped(I'm assuming raped, since I don't see anyone willingly doing anything with an orc)? Heck, more like 20,000 women, assuming that only the males are warriors, then wait 20 years or so for them to mature. Plus losses for cannibalization, since they don't seem to have a problem with eating each other and the lands around Isangard look barren. No,they're more like contructs. Saruman makes them from the ground. I dont really know how he does it,or I dont really know if JRR tolkien says in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 I don't think it ever said in the books. But, the timeline is remarkably different in the books... Sauman began plotting his actions centuries before the events seen in the movies, and there were decades between Bilbo's party and Frodo leaving the Shire. Things had to be sped up a little for the movie to work, for obvious reasons. And if you look hard enough at any piece of literature you can find overtones of racism, sexism, homophobia,.. whatever you wish to find there. Very few things in life can stand up to the unblinking scrutiny of the "politically-correct" microscope. Especially if the one doing the viewing has an agenda to promote. Taken to this extreme not even The Bible could come through unscathed. It's gotten a bit ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba The Hunt Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 I've seen the film at last and its far better than the first one. I've also seen the special edition dvd and except for the end bit (last 45 mins) I think it was worse than the orginal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Beastie Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Originally posted by Jem And yes the Dwarf guy is very funny I'm just happy that Legolas and Gimli actually had lines in this one. In FotR, they just basically said "me too" a lot. So apparently Gimli's the flirt of the group. I like it. I also got a kick out of the flaming Ent running to douse himself. (Had he been running around waving his arms all that time? If so, Ents are really slow-burning.) Especially when he's waiting in the fort and can't see a thing, lol! I'm glad to see they didn't abandon the Gimli & Legolas "buddies" elements, though they're missing some context. Without the full Lothlorien sequence in FotR, we don't see the antagonism between elves and dwarves. It just makes Legolas & Gimli's friendship seem insignificant. The way Legolas jumped on that horse ruled and kicked universal arse. I found myself wondering how much of that was planned, and how much was Gimli losing control of the horse and nearly obliterating Legolas. Gimli's questionable horsemanship was already pointed out, and notice Legolas' "Oh sh*t" expression when he notices the horse coming at him. I still think Hobbits are puny and pathetic, but hey, at least these ones are courageous. The hobbits are supposed to be like that; they're like the "common folk" in legends. That was the whole point of Tolkien's playing with legendary archetypes. According to The Way Things Are DoneTM, Aragorn should've been the Epic Hero. Tolkien intentionally inverted it and turned Aragorn's Quest into a subplot of the hobbits' adventures. Can you tell I studied this in school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 That's a good Study and Analysation of my post, I'll give you an A+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 To anyone who think Legolas is cute... Watch Black Hawk Down. Blackburn, the eager rookie, who ends up falling out of the chopper at the start of the mission, is played by the same guy. Not so sexy now, is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 aw poor nitro is jealous of legolas, do you want pretty white long hair too nitro? yeah that guy is ****ing MORON, evil is dark, good is light, not WHITE, just so happens that white is the brightest color, too bad for him, and dreadlocks? since when is a big mess of dirty hair dreadlocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 He's in a new movie coming out soon or something...I can't recall. I saw it in a preview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boba Rhett Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Pirates of the Caribbean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Originally posted by Zargon aw poor nitro is jealous of legolas, do you want pretty white long hair too nitro? I'm not jealous of Leggsie... Just warning the women of the world. Much like I did when I warned them that someday, Prince William will look like his father. And it's a moot point, because if I don't shave for a couple days, and take off my glasses, I'm a dead ringer for a younger Aragorn. Lego's a bishounen... And everyone knows the chicks go for the rugged, brooding outdoorman type. And yes... I can track game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 orlando bloom is a sexy bitch. nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Sorry, Drommie, but that's just not cute in my books. You girls just like his hair. As Leggie, he's cute, but OOC, he reminds me of a guy that stalked one of my ex-gf's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Originally posted by Nitro Sorry, Drommie, but that's just not cute in my books. i would most certain hope not, unless you're a big fat gay. you big fat gay. Sauron is a sexy bitch. (not gay) And I think one of the Easterlings that investigates Frodo and Sam falling down the mountain is a woman. It has woman eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Originally posted by Nute Gunray you big fat gay. Hey, we're not all big and fat... Ooops! Um... I mean... They (yes, they, my pressssssious) are not all big and fat. Originally posted by Nute Gunray And I think one of the Easterlings that investigates Frodo and Sam falling down the mountain is a woman. It has woman eyes. I think they're all women... The have the eyes, and the build. None of them seemed particulaly bulky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 They can't all be women. Their voices tell us that at least most are men. You can hear one yelling orders and the rest chanting in reply in fairly masculine voices. This one doesn't have the girly eyes. I think this is the one that i think is a woman. I think. And the action figure is clearly a man: http://www.toymania.com/columns/spotlight/tteasterling.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Originally posted by Nitro You girls just like his hair. As Leggie, he's cute, but OOC, he reminds me of a guy that stalked one of my ex-gf's. so he remind you of you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Um, Zarg, A) I don't look like that guy; B) It was while I was dating her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 actually i dont' like the long blond hair on him, i like him despite it. i like him best with his natural messy black hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Wow... I just realized you're still using the avvie I made for you like two years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr. Cracken Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I liked the Two Towers. Like Nitro, i ruined a good pair of pants over it. i think mvoing stuff out of order can make for a better movie. lok at the Potter movies. the first one is a DIRECT adaptation, where as the Chamber of Secrets the moved stuff aorund, making it flow better, which is very important, IMHO. than, and helms Deep rocked my pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 i like my avvie she kinda looks like me a bit...i dunno if nute agrees with me or not but he's the only other one who's seen me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Originally posted by Nitro It was while I was dating her. that only counts if she thought you were dating too but anyways, his hair isn't really blonde, I would just call it platinum its soo white, theres no real blonde left in it. I just like how he shoves arows thru orcs eyes and **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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