Jedi Outcast 2!

[Locke101]

As much as I would like there to be an expansion to JO i would pefer a brand new game using a new engine. Especially with all this talk i really feel that Lucasarts should work HARD on the next JK. I really liked Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight single player. It was soo great, with the huge levels and the civilians, for example at Barons Hed. So i would go with the UT2k3 engine or the doom III engine like its was said before. Either way, if the next installment of jk to be in competition with newer games, as in graphically, then it either needs to use a newer engine or Lucasarts should develop its own to make it "feel" more like the previous DF games before JK2.

[Spider AL]

If it's just an expansion then of course it'll use the Q3 engine. If it's Jk3, a new game in other words, it should use the best engine on the market, whatever that might turn out to be.

 

Simple.

 

Originally posted by BrettMan:

I haven't read anything from the expanded universe though. What other kinds of enimies could there be?

 

The authors of the EU make up a new enemy every five seconds, it's all as feeble and contrived as the Tarrasque from Dungeons & Dragons.

[JDKnite188]

In making a possible JKIII engine, couldn't it just be a heavily upgraded JK engine? Quake looked like crap, but how did it eventually evolve into its Q3 component?

[Sapaca]

If it's gonna be a sequal use the U2K3 engine or the Unreal 2 engine (Don't know the diff. though.) But if it's a whole new thing, re-do the Obi-Wan game. I don't know how disappointed I was. Way back when, I checked the Obi-Wan site like everyday, (Remember the color scheme was red?) (Remember the ad in the LEC PRINTED catalogue). Anyway then they said they weren't gonna make it for the p.c. but for "third generation game consoles". AGHHH!!! I was so depressed. (I wish I still had the screenshots.

 

**END OF LINE**

 

[ryudom]

as for that "advanced JK1 engine" thats impossible. The rendering technique in that engine was clever. But by today's standard it would be impossible to make it look as beautiful as say UT2003 or Doom3 and etc. The way that engine worked is cool. BIG HUGE MAPS with allmost no lag. However, if you tried tweaking it furthey i think it would just destroy the engine. It's been used to its maximum potential. Let it die off.

 

i'm saying, even without major grahics change, i'd still rather a new game on the jK engine then the q3 one. i'm not saying this is gonna happen, but thats just how much i liked the JK engine

[Spider AL]

JK's was a nice little engine. Underrated, and quite easy to work with by oh, 1999. I wonder why it wasn't even more successful...

[Guest Jolts]

sapaca here's some old previews and an interview of obi wan

 

http://www.cdmag.com/articles/027/181/obiwan_preview.html#shot5

 

http://www.cdmag.com/articles/029/048/obiwan_interview.html

 

http://www.actiontrip.com/previews/starwarsepisode1obiwan.phtml

 

its kinda fun to read the interview, as old as this game is the previews make it sound more advanced than jo was.

[Locke101]

stilll a JK3 would be better on a new engine.. I never really played obi wan so i cant comment on its engine. Can someone enlighten me on the engine?

[ryudom]

i heard it wasn't that great

[Sapaca]

Jolts thanks! I really want on Obi-Wan game.

[txa1265]

Originally posted by Sapaca

Jolts thanks! I really want on Obi-Wan game.

 

I have not played ObiWan for XBox (and refuse to buy a console for our house at this point ...) but I remember well the pain that cancellation caused. My wife had it pre-ordered through Amazon for a Christmas present ...

 

Anyway, ObiWan was reviewed as ~60% or so whereas Jedi Outcast was reviewed at ~90%. Typical headlines for ObiWan reviews were 'the force is weak', for JKII 'the force is strong'.

 

So ... while JKII could have been better, it is still a pretty great game ...

 

Mike

[Emon]

If Raven developes this expansion or sequel, if it even exists, I garuntee that it will be on an id engine. Raven has never made a game not based on a Quake engine.

[Emon]

Actually, that's not entirely true. Raven is ancient, they made stuff for the Amiga, which is obviously not Quake powered. But anything modern has been on Quake.

[Datheus]

If you ask me... No matter what they do, it'll be a let down... LEC seems to have a history of building hype and then not living up to the means...

 

I love the UT2k3 engine, especially the open nature of the engine (I'm impatiently awaiting the beta release of Unreal Tournament 2003: Troopers Which is a Star Wars based mod for UT2K3... I'm also waiting on DragonBallU which is a DBZ mod for UT2K3...

 

But I have a feeling that if LEC and their developing lackies got a hold of the engine, they'd slaughter the potential...

 

I'd love to see JK3 hit the engine. Although, I don't want it on the Doom III engine because I don't know if I could run it on my computer

 

Now, I'd probably buy the game. I'm sure whatever they have planned for the future will be "ok", but it won't be great. They've got "ok" games, they've got innovative games... But I'm still waiting to play a game where the gameplay is more then good, it's GREAT. I'm waiting to play LEC game where the storyline is GREAT. LEC seems to always lack in that department...

 

Onto what I'd like to see:

 

Complicated dismemberment. It seems to me like dismemberment was something thrown together at the last minute. If MP had dismemberment like SP, that'd be even better, but the dismemberment in MP is kinda crappy... They're missing some key ones too, if you bring your saber straight down through the top of them, they'd split in half, their arm wouldn't fall off... Nor would their leg, which is so common when you DFA.

 

To me, the saber control is perfect. Perfect in the sence that you can't really make it much more detailed without making it too complicated to play. The system is just too buggy. They need to fix the tracing and such... I was standing a good 5 ft from a guy, neither of us lagging, and my saber was sparking like mad as if I was touching something...

 

And finally, a slightly more destructive/interactive environment... When you slash a wall with your saber and it leaves a mark, then you slash a breakable wall and the thing EXPLODES IN A LARGE FIREBALL... well, it just doesn't make sense...

 

-edit- And oh, "hand to hand" combat... The kicking in this game is kinda weak... I'd like to see it developed more... It'd be pretty cool to just whap someone on the head with your hilt in the middle of a duel.

[AJL]

Changes in next JK game or expancion....

 

1. Guns (Blasters) should be WAY more powerfull... their bolts

should fly way faster and to head just one and to torso one or

two hits should be enough... And i think they could make them

look more like in movies...

 

And those weapon shouldn't like they are in JK2 always very

inaccurate... but they should have some recoil and accurasy

when moving should be low...

 

------ ----- ---- --- -- -

 

2. Sabers should also be way more powerfull (and idle saber

should make as much damage as it makes during attack...)

 

And different kind of attacks and attacks styles shouldn't make

any "direct" differense in the damage... (if you slash or push or

drop or... somehow make it go through of some part of some

guys body it should always cut it in a blink...)

 

Different kind of attacks and attacks styles should only affect

to the ability to block and break through of opponents defences

 

And I am SURE they could EASILY make those saber look

more like in movies

 

------ ----- ---- --- -- -

 

3. Force powers should be powerfull but not too effective at

least not against other force users... (force have strong

influence in weak minded... not to every guy...)

 

And there should be lots of force powers (and/or they should

work differently in different situations...) but they should all be

variations of couple basic powers...

>>> Telekinesis = ( push, pull, jump, grip, ... )

>>> Tele coercing/Telepathy = ( all that mindtrick stuff, seing, ... )

>>> Electrical stuff = ( speed, jump, fast reflexes, pain tolerance, ... lightning...)

 

------ ----- ---- --- -- -

 

4. Level design would be better if the thing which takes most

of the time is not this:

 

You jump from place A or place B and from there to place C

and................. and from there to place X and from there to

Y and... and if you... (like you usually do) jump a little bit

past that place and you fall to your death then you

start again from place A...

 

And those maps could also have some places where those

stormtroopers use their spare time and where they sleep

and where... not just endless corridors and reactors and

rooms which have no use but which are filled with boxes

which doesn't even fit through doors...

 

(I mean those level complexes could be bit more realistic...)

 

And i think its stupid that those stormtroopers just stand in

those closed rooms all day long waiting if some rebel guy

someday happens to walk in....

 

------ ----- ---- --- -- -

 

5. Story... i think they should let force be just mysterious force

not some stuff you inject in to your self using some freak device

or what you can get from some jedi graveyard or some micro

organism in your blood....

[Doctor Shaft]

I feel they definitely need to change the feel of the game for the next game.

 

Ever since the addition of jedi powers after Dark Forces, I think that feel of the games have really been the same. You can use both guns and a lightsaber. You can pick up a multitude of weapons without any worries, etc. This is all fine and good in my book... I bought all the games.

 

However, at this point, I think JK3 should something a little more 'counterstrike' in terms of direction. Don't get me wrong! I don't want Counterstarwars... I'm not a big fan of what Counterstrike has become, nor do I wish to debate its worth. But it would be interesting if the next Jedi Knight had a different feel, where things were more.... tangible? Moving objects with the force, guns being actual physical objects instead of just attack modes, i.e. have a weight, take up space in your hands, etc. And while we never have seen stormtroopers having to reload stormtrooper rifles in the movie, etc., I'd still like it if the game had stuff like that going on.

 

Of course, that's me saying I'd like a game where things are slowed down, it's no longer a really fast paced, carry 50 tank guns of different shapes and sizes, pull out a lightsaber when it feels good... and people like that kind of game. I'd want something where I'm runnig around with my st rifle, I kill some people, I see a door, realize I have to blow it apart, so I drop the rifle and pick up the rocket launcher or whatever your imagination desires. I can carry my bryar around all the time, but it gets dangerous carrying multiple weapons in terms of my speed and physical ability, noise, etc.

 

I didn't even bother with the JO single player game. After playing Dark Forces, which simply had the best single player despite its age, then Jedi Knight and MotS, which also had excellent single player action.... it was just getting old. Different story, same progression, same kind of game, just better graphics, etc. I just played multiplayer because I knew it would be better than the older engines in terms of performance.

 

At this point, I'm kind of tiring of the way Jedi Knight has been produced. When Dark Force came out, I really felt like I was part of a dangerous enviroment. I could jump, I could run, and I had various guns. I didn't mind that I carried so many weapons at the time, it was just great to infiltrate all of these gigantic imperial facilities, lay detonators in the power generator, fly out on the Moldy Crow and watch yet another facility get nuked. That was great.

 

Jedi Knight changed the game yet again, only this time I was even more powerful than before. I could use the force, wield a lightsaber AND use tons of weapons all at high speeds. Again, I didn't mind, this was great, first of its kind so to speak. MotS came, now we had the ability to all the force powers; I liked that too. AGain, didn't mind the neck break speeds, 55 tank guns, and force powers to boot.

 

Now, as time has gone by, I play numerous half life mods, get into really slow stradegy games like Starfleet Command, etc., and I'm just worn out on the Jedi Knight genre. JO had changes, but they weren't significant changes. We got some acrobatics, saber combat was enhanced, and a few new force powers were introduced... all good, but the basic way of playing the game remained much the same, or at least it seemed that way.

 

This is what I'd like to see in the next installment, but chances are this next installment will be an expansion pack and also retain much of the old formula:

 

NEVER REMOVE KYLE KATARN FROM DARK FORCES/JEDI KNIGHT/JEDI OUTCAST/WHATEVER STAR WARS FPS THAT EVER GETS CREATED. It doesn't matter how old he is, Kyle Katarn IS Jedi Knight, etc. Remove him and it isn't Dark Forces anymore, or any of the subsequent spin offs.

 

It would be nice if the game had more of a 'physical' aspect to the game. In other words, Kyle doesn't carry around 50 blaster weapons at the same time. Why not? Quite frankly I tire of it; it bores me that I have a storm trooper rifle AND thirty rocket launchers and thermal dets, and yet seem to be unhindered in terms of movement, ability, etc. Heck, I can even switch weapons effortlessly. that was cool three years ago, but for the sake of being different, I'd prefer that we keep the 50 guns motif, but require that the player be conservative about how he goes about carrying around weapons.

 

Weapon speeds should be changed. Again, this is going into that kind of 'half life' style game (that's the best way i have of putting it). In other words, laser fire is much quicker, dodging fire is a more serious affair, etc. More laser weapons, less 'balls of fire and rockets of mass destruction' type things.

 

In terms of explosives, I would also like them to be taken... more seriously? In the past, explosives have been conveniently just big enough to take out multiple enemies, but also just small enough to prevent harm to the user in many situations. It's not 'easy' persay to destroy people with this weaponry, but for the sake of me relying on some good aim and not being able to depend on just utterly vaporizing my opponent, i think the 'perfect diameter' explosives should be ditched. If I throw a thermal detonator, I need to get out of town. Or if I fire a rocket, it should be a very dangerous situation. However, in a multiplayer setting, that may not be feasible, as we'd get many young bucks running around suiciding themselves but taking 50 other people with him. Solution? Get rid of those "guns that shoot at least 40 explosives" from the game. Unfortunately for me, a majority of this community wouldn't be able to live with that.

 

Lightsaber combat was pretty good for what it was in JO. I was impressed. Of course, the damage indexes for the weapon have been severely tweaked, and while I am always in favor of near fatal lightsabers, other are not. The stances thing was a good idea. Bringing them back into the game would be a good thing. More stances would be good too, but since it seems that development teams don't release games that have tons of stuff in them these days, that will also probably not happen. Regardless, I'd finally like to see just plain lethal lightsabers. Lethal guns, lethal sabers. It would probably be a harder game then, as gunners in my game would be deprived a multitude of ultra destructive explosives, and may have to use lightsabers themselves. And yet, I love guns and gunners, I like being a saberist, and I'd like it if someone could win very well using guns only. I just don't like how the games have decided to create this enviroment. Don't ask me how I would change it to make it fun for the gunning crowd and the saber crowd... i don't know.

 

Finally, I have always been a fan of the idea of having TONS of force powers. Some may argue that JK and JO have had tons of force powers already. Regardless, while I have no 'good' ideas as to how the force should work in a game, I would appreciate it if a 'JO2/JK3' would have a force system that broke away from the "I have this power, you got that power". No sense in me going into detail, I've already wasted enough of my breath at this point.

 

All in all, I will continue to support Kyle Katarn and his adventures that SHOULD NEVER EVER END, EVEN IF HE IS 150 YEARS OLD, AND ALL OF HIS FRIENDS ARE DEAD. However, hearing that an expansion pack on the way doesn't exactly excite me right now. JO was fun for me only for a little while. I got the kind of gameplay I wanted from Promod, but then again, not exactly. However, even with those game tweaks, the game itself is still kind of same ole same ole for me. I don't want an fps that feels like some rpg, but I guess I do want something more immersive. I feel that Half Life was one of the best single player games ever made. If JK3 had something as continuous and immersive as that, I'd buy it in a heart beat, but I'd also want to get rid of the "carry every weapon known to man easily". If Dark Force was able to change a little bit, I feel JK3 should change a little bit as well. I know lots of you will reply, "It's not JK3 without the hyper speed, bunny hopping, and rocket spraying". At this point, you may be right, but I don't exactly care. I'm ready and willing to watch JK3 evolve into something else. Until then... meh, JK is fun, but not nearly as exhilirating as it used to be.

[ryudom]

agreed

[WD_ToRMeNt]

Wow, it's been a while since I've posted. Some of you old timers might remember me.

 

Anyways, I was right. Raven had no clue what made JK1 good, they made a crappy game. Yeah, it was ok untill the first patch came out but competative JK2 didn't last long after the "patch". The SP wasn't anything special either.

 

I'm stilled POed at Raven/LEC for ruining JK2. I rented a server (anyone rememer the WD CTF/JK2++ server?) but I barely got a month of play out of it before JK2 whent to hell and all the real gamers quit.

 

If Raven learns from their mistakes and makes a decent JK3/JK2x (as in more like JK1) then maybe i'll regain a shredd of respect for them, but I don't see that as likely. I dont think i'll be spending money on any expansions/sequals that come out as long as Raven is involved.

 

Regardless, I can sit back an say I told you so.

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt:

 

Anyways, I was right. Raven had no clue what made JK1 good, they made a crappy game. Yeah, it was ok untill the first patch came out but competative JK2 didn't last long after the "patch". The SP wasn't anything special either.

Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt:

 

If Raven learns from their mistakes and makes a decent JK3/JK2x (as in more like JK1) then maybe i'll regain a shredd of respect for them

Actually, SP was (and is) superb, pre-patch MP was truly classic, and honestly, I doubt your respect is very high on Raven's list of "things to obtain."

 

Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt:

 

Regardless, I can sit back an say I told you so

But why would you want or need to? One would think we'd gotten past the bitter Raven-bashing stage by now.

 

From Vagabond: Okay, Spider AL, I've gotten onto WD_ToRMeNt for calling people names in the past. The same standard applies to you. Please refrain from further name-calling. Thank you.

[Zodiac]

Make MP good again in JKO2. Make it JK3. but make it better. screw the q3 engine. get ur own. oldschool fury is what we need.

[txa1265]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Actually, SP was (and is) superb, pre-patch MP was truly classic, and honestly, I doubt your respect is very high on Raven's list of "things to obtain."

 

 

But why would you want or need to? One would think we'd gotten past the bitter Raven-bashing stage by now.

 

Very, very, very well said.

 

The SP game - while not flawless - was at or near the top of just about every game journal/site/whatever list for the year - and it was quite a year for FPS gaming (MoHAA, NOLF2, SoF2, etc).

 

The MP game, as I've said elsewhere, is not my bag, but I agree with your take. By attempting to further 'balance gameplay', Raven got themselves backed into that impossible 'please some anger others', and at the same time had the constant howl (starting ~March 29th IIRC) of 'JKII is dying/dead'.

 

If MP was ruined (which I don't really believe), we have no one to thank but ourselves. Likewise, if JKII is 'dead' (again I don't believe that), don't look at Raven, look around you at all of the people who want it their way now ... or else.

 

Mike

[Luc Solar]

Really?!

 

I though SP was horrible.

 

There were some really cool moments, like meeting the first reborns....but otherwise: bleah.

 

I hated the way the managed to fill the game with idiotic puzzles solely for the sake of Puzzles.

 

I want to use my brains.

 

I don't want to shoot aimlessly at everything hoping to hit some random little box that explodes and lets me force-push a little switch that pops up behind the hole that the explosion made in the wall and then run to the other side of the map, pull another box, use my light amplification goggles to scare a little squirrel that panics and runs through the ventilation system and causes a blackout which causes the guard to open the secret hatch number 174 allowing me to slip by the electric fence and enter the password in the mainframe which puts the ion cannons online and firing randomly hitting a speeder which crashes into the side of the warehouse an VOILA --> I have access to the next level! Yay! I'm so smart!

 

Didn't like Desann. Didn't like Force Crystals and all that crap. Don't like "tricks" in general. The end boss in JK1 (forgot his name....the blind guy.) was really cool, but when the final fight began, what do I get --> A DAMN PUZZLE. What's with all the crappy god-mode-beams etc? I want fair fights, not bs. Make 'em tough. Give them speed strenght and loads of hp, but quit using stupid invulnerabilities and/or godly powers.

 

A good example is the ladder-fight (or was it just a level?) where you end up agaionst Tavion in the end. She can't be killed with a saber no matter how hard you try. Same with Vader in ladder I. Retarded, lame TRICKS give you victory. WTF is that?

 

[/rant]

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by Luc Solar:

 

I hated the way the managed to fill the game with idiotic puzzles solely for the sake of Puzzles. I want to use my brains. I don't want to shoot aimlessly at everything hoping to hit some random little box that explodes

Umm... Okay. I'm not sure what exactly you disliked about the puzzles then, it can't be that they were too difficult, because you say you WANT to use your brain... Too fiddly maybe? Only Reelo's garbage-plant front was fiddly, IMO. As for the others, they whipped by pretty quick. It all played in a remarkably fluid fashion, and I never felt that the puzzles snapped one out of the flow, per-se.

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar:

 

Didn't like Desann. Didn't like Force Crystals and all that crap. Don't like "tricks" in general. The end boss in JK1 (forgot his name....the blind guy.) was really cool, but when the final fight began, what do I get --> A DAMN PUZZLE. What's with all the crappy god-mode-beams etc?

Umm... So you're saying you didn't like the SP in JK1 either? The final fight with Jerec was at least as much of a puzzler as the fight with Desann. Not to mention the fact that you can kill Desann without the god-beam, or the pillars. You can kill him any which way you like.

 

So if you don't like the mood of JK1 SP or JK2 SP, well, you're entitled to your opinion, but shedloads of people disagreed with you, including almost all magazine reviewers in the known universe.

 

Originally posted by Luc Solar:

 

A good example is the ladder-fight (or was it just a level?) where you end up agaionst Tavion in the end. She can't be killed with a saber no matter how hard you try. Same with Vader in ladder I. Retarded, lame TRICKS give you victory. WTF is that?

Um, you must be talking about some addon level other than the original Ladder, coz Vader wasn't in that to my knowledge, and all the bosses were killable.

[ryudom]

heres my take on singleplay

 

first, it the movement, guns, and saber controls feel alot more sloppy then multiplayer. not good heh

 

second, story wasn't that great. JK1 was way better. Didn't seem like there was as much atmosphere in this game. Not even close.

 

third, level design seemed not half as good as JK1. JK1 had cool cool levels, like narshada and all of them really. another thing is in JK1 you could get to all the places in the map were bad guys were, you can't do this in JK2 methinks, and the secrets were pointless. I also liked the loading and start up screens better in JK1 heh.

 

and the bosses were kinda rediculous, galak was cool, but there wasn't enough bosses, and the ones they did ahve weren't all that great.

 

the rest was good heh

[Doctor Shaft]

Well, if they do make an expansion, hopefully they concentrate heavily on multiplayer. Of course, single player lovers may not like that so much, but come on, how good of a story do you think they'd come up with in an expansion? Mysteries of the Sith was surprisingly good, but the multiplayer expansions weren't exactly great. You had freedom in force setups, and "classes" but a lot of the new features had balance problems. A storm trooper rifle being turned into a sniper rifle, while cool in practice, is actually quite easy to use. Don't even get me started on the carbonite gun. Once again, the guy who wanted the lightsaber was kind of miffed. whatever, MotS was still fun.

 

But seriously, after doing so many stories with Kyle, if an expansion were to come within this year or so, I'd prefer that it concentrated much more on game play dynamics. Bring the game back to it's multiplayer origins, as in the game mechanics before 1.03, and then improve upon it, as in add more things, from there. Having them make another single player story with a sub par multiplayer system isn't the way to go.