SkinWalker Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 I read a post early on in the thread that made a comment about homosexuality not being natural. Actually it is. I recently read of a primate species similar to the chimpanzee that frequently engaged in homosexual behavior. Apparently both male and female. From what I remember, primatologists believe that the behavior is one that helps females of the group band together to balance the power of the males (primates are generally male dominated species). Both males and females engage in sex with their own genders and others, even when the female is not in cycle. They even engage in oral sex. I don't remember the name of the primate species, but I"m sure I still have the literature somewhere. That would seem to invalidate the statement that many opponents to homosexuality use, which is "it's wrong because it isn't natural." It occurs in nature, therefore it is natural. I, personally, do not find homosexuality a viable lifestyle for me, but I've nothing against those who engage in homosexual behavior. They have little direct affect in my day to day life and the ones I've met are very good people. As to the argument that homosexuality is wrong because it interferes with the human reproductive cycle, well.... there are over 6 billion people all competing for food, water, and shelter on this planet now. When we can say that there is plenty for everyone and it's distributed that way, that argument will hod more validity. Just my .02 cents. SkinWalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn I didn't. I meant kissing, flirting, etc. Of course, I don't mean to ban it, but it is a bit unnatural, and rather repulsive to straight people (wich still is a much higher number than gay people). On the adoption thingy: Instead of seeing it from the homosexual's view it is better to see it from the children's view. Will 2 mothers/fathers be as good parents as 1 father and 1 mother? They might try all they can, but they just can't give the child a complete adolescence. I dont think it's repulsive.......it weirds me out, but they're gay....it's what they do. And do you KNOW from experience that having 2 mothers or 2 fathers would give you a bad childhood? wouldn't it be better to have 2 loving parents than to have no parents? Best interest of the child MAY be to have two heterosexual parents, but sometimes they never get that chance. They are raised with no parents, no guidance, no real life of their own. You think that 2 gay partners couldn't raise a child as effectively simply because it's never happened to you, and you find it strange, weird, and frightening. There is no factual evidence to back up your feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Homosexuality, among many other things, was one of the reasons that God destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Either that or their horribly bad names. Do I have a problem with gay people? No. One of my best friends admitted to me that he was gay a few years ago. Did it change anything about our friendship? Absolutely not. Homosexuality isn't natural. But it is part of everyday life now, whether people like it or not. Does that mean all must condone it? Not at all. But one must respect everyone else as human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Well I believe that the Bible does not condone homosexuality, and therefore, in a sense, I do not condone it because of the Bible. But like other people have stated, sex was made for reproduction. I don't care how many people say it was made for pleasure, it was made for reproduction. The pleasure part was thornw in there so people would want to reproduce. I assume that all of you know how sex happens and about the sperm entering where and stuff so if two MALES are doing this. It is impossible for them to reproduce, therefore, in my opinion, making it wrong. Also it kinda freaks me out to see two males kissing. Now females on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 People do not become homosexuals. They are homosexuals. While some people may be straight on the outside because of massive peer pressure, on the inside, they'll always be whatever their sexual preference is. People who "turn gay" after in the middle of a straight marriage have always been homosexual on the inside if you ask them more closely, but society has dictated their lives. In the middle ages for example, many married men were gay, but they could easily lead a life with wife and kids, since sex played a very, very minor role in marriage - sometimes non-existant. In human and primate societies, sex plays a much larger role than reproduction. It's a great tool for bonding individuals and makes for great education in norms and games. Homosexuality is only "wrong" as long as these archaic soceity norms holds sway over the masses. God is supposed to be tolerant. The moment I head about God killing innocent humans and animals, was the moment I forever turned my back to Christianity. Christians are supposed to be tolerant. Folks like M54 gives Christians a very bad name, and takes religion straight back to the dark ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Originally posted by C'jais The moment I head about God killing innocent humans and animals, was the moment I forever turned my back to Christianity. I am gussing you are referring to the incident in the Bible. I thought you didn't believe the Bible, C'jais. Anyway, as I said earlier, I don' care if a guy likes women, men, or even dogs. (well, maybe if he liked dogs, i would scratch my head a bit) I associate with anyone who wants to associate with me. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Originally posted by obi-wan13 I am gussing you are referring to the incident in the Bible. I thought you didn't believe the Bible, C'jais. I still don't. But when I read about all the cruel acts of God, it made me stop viewing Christianity as purely good concept. When Moses kills another man, he sets forth a beautiful example for us all to follow. When God tells Man that he reigns supreme over nature and is second in command to the High Lord, he makes me ashamed of being human. But really, the number one reason why I'm not religious is because I don't want to live forever. An afterlife that just goes on and on scares me. Immortality is a childish need to cling on to our constant craving of self-affirmation and egocentric perspective. A blissful eternity equals an eternal amount of selfish, positive stimuli. It's not about me - it's about the world. Everything will go on after I no longer exist and I won't have to give a damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemme w/Stick Posted February 9, 2003 Author Share Posted February 9, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior Maybe i'm wrong.....but isn't calling homosexuals weird and wrong bashing them? Sorry that i come across as rather angry and spiteful.......but I REALLY think people need to be more accepting and understanding to things that they don't understand........ Homophobic people make me sad Yeah, you maybe right there. I contradicted myself for a minute. Thx ET. Hmm, I dont have anything more to say..! -Clemme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTS Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Thanx Griff38...for your insight i like it.. Im a young gay male, im very happy with it. All these ppl who think its wrong, not in gods eyes, or gay ppl should be shot at birth, hung drawn and quartered. dont know wat its is like to be gay or have any gay friends. Yeah i do keep it to myself i dont come on to every str8 good lookin lad i find.. and the guys that think every gay guy will come onto you "GOD dont flatter yourself" i do have my standards and taste.." Its like me saying i dont like str8 ppl, cos i dont ave any str8 friends. I have more str8 mates than i do gay i love goin out with my str8 mates all my st8 mates love me for me not cos its right or wrong they dont ave and problem with it. im not ur average guy tho.. im me a person human being and gay sorry but thats it.. cos im gay dont mean im any less a human or a person.. with all these types of discussions it ALWAYS a Str8 person that starts them (WHY) dont u think gay ppl most of the time have enough to deal with.. wen we come on here and play games just like any other person to get away from the sh*t in real life. and we come on here and read threads like this.. dont you ppl ave better things to talk then my sex life.. You dont have Gay Bi ppl coming on here talking about the problems of being Str8 or the problems str8 ppl have.. so dont bring my life on to these boards we ave enough problems as it is.. im not the type of person that fights for the rights of gay ppl. i just keep myself to myself get on with my life go through the problems that every one goes through, im not special im just human and like you Str8 lot.. thats all for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemme w/Stick Posted February 9, 2003 Author Share Posted February 9, 2003 Originally posted by Clemme w/Stick First off, I'm not trying to offend any gay ppl that might be here or any1 who knows any gay ppl. This is strictly for discussion. Hmm, I'm sorry if I offended you by putting on this thread. But if you'll notice that there was no meaning in offending any gay ppl, or anything like that I think we can have this cleared up in no time....deal? I have gay friends too, and I have nothing against them. I just feel a little odd everytime I think about theyre going out. Thats all. Hmm, thats what I have to say. -Clemme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Originally posted by Murdoch we gladly kill each other, a trait that is virtually unknown in every other known species. Chimpanzes fight wars too, for many of the same reasons that humans do. I think that it's perfectly OK. And of course they should be allowed to adopt. I have seen no surveys showing that having two mothers/fathers is somehow more harmful than having your parents divorce each other. As for those who think that it is wrong: Well, they aren't exactly going to be a majority anytime soon, are they? According to the Bible, it isn't wrong because it's not God's plan, it's wrong because it's violating a commandment of God. Source that. Then I'll have another count of "intolerance". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunClown Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 It doesn't worry me. But when I hear them talk with those gay accents and wear womens clothes and I sought of feel pity on them (not so much contempt) that they would treat themselves like that. It seems pretty sad to me really when I see someone gay abusing themselves like that. It might be there choice but they could hardly be happy going around with makeup. Though my mother did say that its interesting how they are able to put on make-up so much better than women. I actually had a friend who confided in me about being gay. Nothing changed in our friendship from that. But I did say you're not going to start speaking with that accent are you? He replied no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I just looked in the 10 commandments. It actually doesnt say anything about homosexuality as being bad. It says adultery is bad, but adulter is defined (by dictionary.com) as : Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse. There's also the 10th commandment, which says... 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.' It DOES say in there "nor his male servant" but it includes that in the list of what could be considered the neighbors possession. Besides, it probably mostly applies to women. Therefore, I see nothing in the commandments that condemns homosexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 You should look up what "covet" means. There are things about homosexuals in the bible, but nothing in there directly, or indirectly, states that God says homosexuality is a bad thing. It's all crap when someone says the bible is against homosexuality. Using the bible like that is just a tool to control those who want to believe, and condemn those who don't. Just because the bible supports some of your twisted beliefs doesn't mean it supports all of your twisted beliefs. Nice try though, thanks, please drive through and enjoy your stay in Misguided Bigot Resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Nice try though, thanks, please drive through and enjoy your stay in Misguided Bigot Resort. Uhm.... were you talking to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Just 'cause my post came after yours, doesn't mean it was all directed at you. The covet part, yes, but after that, no. Do I really need to tell you this? Did any of my post oppose the opinion in yours and lead you to believe it was directed at you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Umm...I kinda though it was directed at Shock too...but whatever. The Bible sayeth for example: 1) Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. (Leviticus 18:22) 2) Homosexuals must be executed.(Leviticus 20:13) I think that could be interpreted a bit anti-gayish. But on the other hand we have all this stuff about love, compassion and so on. That does not go hand in hand with executing homos. It's all about how you interpret the book. Some people take it literally. Others don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandalorian54 Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 what do you mean teachers at school don't say it's okay to have sex. mabee not at your school, but they did at my old school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by Mandolorian54 what do you mean teachers at school don't say it's okay to have sex. mabee not at your school, but they did at my old school. Why would it not be okay to have sex? People love each other - they have sex. Wow. Grand concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandalorian54 Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 because it's meant to mean more than that. It's supposed to be a spiritual bondage between two people. That's why theres STD's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by Mandolorian54 because it's meant to mean more than that. It's supposed to be a spiritual bondage between two people. I'm getting a bit worried for you, man. Do you have any views and opinions yourself? Or do you just do some major copy/paste work from the Bible each time you're faced with a hurdle in life? That's why theres STD's. So, God created STD's as a punishment for our sinful loving and living? God must be more perverse than I had thought him to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-s/<itzo- Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 why does religion always pops up during debates? anyway i have nothing against the gays. i mean it's who they are, it's individualism. just because their style of living is different, it doesn't mean its wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Originally posted by -s/<itzo- why does religion always pops up during debates? Because many peoples beliefs (including most of mine) are founded on religion. Just the way it is. But hey I enjoy a good religion thread, I think it makes my faith stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Originally posted by munik Do I really need to tell you this? Did any of my post oppose the opinion in yours and lead you to believe it was directed at you? Stand straight and spread your legs. Bend over, grip the tree trunk tightly, and remove it from your hindparts. Breath deeply. Feel better? I've encountered people who can misinterpret the most clearcut post in the world. I wouldnt have been surprised if you had too. Typically, if you're replying to something someone said, it's a good idea to quote them. Otherwise, the immediate assumption is that its a reply to the post immediatley above yours. You discussed my post, seemingly agreed with me. And then you threw an insult out in the air, and since you named no names and I was the last one to talk, I assumed it was towards me. "Do I really need to tell you this?" Man, that makes me mad. What are you, my dad? Do you really need to take a condescending, insulting attitude towards a slight misocommunication? Whatever. If there's anything that makes me mad in this world, it's people who have the attitude like the one you just displayed. To everyone else, I'm sorry to have gone off-topic. In response to Luc... Those are Old Testament, right? Old Testament, in my opinion, should be taken with a grain of salt. I mean, according to Old Testament, women should go stay in a separate house during their period, and their bodies hold evil within them. If we were to base our entire way of life on Old Testament... we'd be pretty savage people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 You get all riled up pretty easy. Makes me smile on the inside that someone actually got upset by an offhand remark in one of my posts. All my hardwork has finally paid off! I think you're wound a little too tight, though. Now, because of the post above me, I must state that the rest of this post doesn't directly pertain to the post above me. The book of Leviticus is God telling Moses what to tell the Isrealites. This I know because I read the book of Leviticus. So those are rules that God wants the Isrealites to adhere to. So, that means that Jews can't plumb the depths of the chocolate starfish or muff dive. I'm not an Isrealite, not many people are in fact. So, we can safely assume that that doesn't mean homosexuality is bad according to God. On the flip side though, if you do assume that what is in Leviticus about homosexuals is Gods word that must be followed by everyone, then you would also have to believe that everything else in the Book of Leviticus must be followed as well. God commanded some pretty ridiculous things of the Isrealites. I would call someone who condemned homosexuals because of the Bible a bigot, but I'm pretty sure there isn't a word made up for someone who would condemn others because of the rules set forth in Leviticus. Nuckin' Futs at the very least. Now, this in reference to the post above me. Originally posted by ShockV1.89 Those are Old Testament, right? Old Testament, in my opinion, should be taken with a grain of salt. Those verses came out of Leviticus, which is one of Mose's conversation with God. And you are right, there must be at least a hundred things in that book that God says the Isrealites cannot do, yet they are some of the most retarded rules I have ever heard. Oh, and the Ten Commandments are in Deuteronomy, a book in the Old Testament. The way it seems to me is that Moses was just as charismatic as Roy Jones. Except Moses kept leading the Isrealites around, taking them toward their land and feeding them bullsh*t from his "conversations" with God all the while. Mr. Jones already had everyone at his "promise land", so they could just relax in Jonestown and listen to his horsesh*t, instead of traveling the desert for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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