RpTheHotrod Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Rev. 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. Rev 9:7-10 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. Sorry if I misspelled something, was reading was I typed without looking at the screen. Now think, John, way back when, seeing visions of a time not even come as of yet. What if John saw something...and the best way to describe it was to make it sound like something he was familiar with. John wouldn't be able to compare our technology with anything of his time, he would think our technology to be...alive. What if John saw today's attack helicopters (Apache). Like unto horses prepared for battle, and on their heads crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of man. If the sunlight hit's the blades of the helicopter, it gives a massive golden "aura" aruond the blades...looking like a golden circle above the helicopter. Either that, or John, looking through the front window of a helicopter, saw a man wearing his flying helmet. Hair as the hair of women. Have you watched a helicopter in flight with it's rotors in full swing? Just a whirl with no distinct form, fine hair blowing in the wind. Teeth as the teeth of lions. The armament and guns on the front of the helicopter...or perhaps a paintjob (but if he saw locusts, as in plural, it seems armament and guns would be more viable). Sound of their wings was as the sound of many horses running to battle. If you have ever heard the roar of only a few helicopters in flight, you will understand this. And there were stings in their tails - - - hurt man five months. Helicopter tails do look like scorpion tails, and the tails have sprays in their tails that can spray out chemicals that will cause havoc to man - not kill but make him incapable of being able to do anything. A wounded soldier causes many more problems than a dead man as it takes several others to attend to him. Nerve gas? So, could these 'locusts' be attack helicopters (Apaches)? Of coarse, they might be just as he said...creatures. Heh Just an interesting idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted February 25, 2003 Author Share Posted February 25, 2003 Also... Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. What if John was seeing was modern tanks with nuclear armament? Fire, smoke and brimstone are all parts of thermonuclear explosions. Smoke, the great clouds of radioactive fallout, and brimstone is the melted stone and earth that results from great heat. Earlier, when Daniel asked God what all this meant, God told him to shut up the book, as he could not understand it, but those living in the 'latter days' would understand it. What if John was seeing nuclear warfare in the air and on the ground, and he described what he saw with no knowledge of twentieth and twenty-first century advances in war arms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Marrakesh Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Heh... intresting theory. It's similar to one I have about medieval dragons: what if they saw an early train? You know, all clad in armor (metal hull), belching smoke (exhaust), and unstoppable (great ramming speed)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyk0Sith Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Reminds me of what Nostradamus has written. I dont have enough knowledge of the bible to understand what it means. Everyone has their own interpretation i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 I just figure John was tripping out. That explains things pretty neatly for me. What he describes is fantastic. A helicopter is not. Even though he may have never seen anything like that before, he has seen metal. And that is what they are made of. He doesn't mention metal at all. And why does his hallucination have to do with a piece of equipment from the late 20th century? Maybe if it was in fact a revelation of the future, maybe it was something that we would consider fantastic, and have nothing comparable. Why a helicopter? In the whole book, why describe a helicopter? There are many other interesting things around today that John would have found incredible. What significance is a helicopter? Why not a toaster? Or a speculum production facility? There are many fascinating things around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted February 25, 2003 Author Share Posted February 25, 2003 Why would God show him "visions of toasters" when Revelation is about the end of time. Attack Helicopters and Tanks = war Revelation deals with war. He was seeing a battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Well, considering that those devices of war are pretty specific to the 20th century, are you implying that the end of time is near? Wow, that sounds like an original decleration. I've never heard that before. You must be the first person in history to use an ancient text prophesizing about the end of time and mold it to fit the present time you are in. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted February 25, 2003 Author Share Posted February 25, 2003 Eh... you don't get out much, do you. It's been mentioned by thousands. The Bible gives detailed "descriptions" of the "end times", and those details do fit this day and age. You should really do some research before saying stuff like that. Sorta like waking up one day and hearing someone talking about the moon landing and you are amazed. Really, this "end times" thing has been around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted February 25, 2003 Author Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by munik What he describes is fantastic. A helicopter is not. Even though he may have never seen anything like that before, he has seen metal. And that is what they are made of. He doesn't mention metal at all. you mean when he says "And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron" I'd say iron could be considered a metal Look, if you were from his time and you suddenly saw this... what on earth would YOU think? You're used to horses and chariots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCanr2d2 Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Nostradamus, and many prophecies in all religious texts are usually that wide in their interpretation that many events can fit what has been told. So, it is not hard to make current events fit what is in Revelations, and for it to make sense, just like it is easy to make events in Nostradamus' Quatraines fit many things, since they are so generalised and obscure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by RpTheHotrod Eh... you don't get out much, do you. It's been mentioned by thousands. The Bible gives detailed "descriptions" of the "end times", and those details do fit this day and age. You should really do some research before saying stuff like that. Sorta like waking up one day and hearing someone talking about the moon landing and you are amazed. Really, this "end times" thing has been around. You really dont grasp sarcasm too well, do you? Helicopter tails do look like scorpion tails, and the tails have sprays in their tails that can spray out chemicals that will cause havoc to man - not kill but make him incapable of being able to do anything. Last I checked, Apaches, or any helicopter, to my knowledge, were not equipped with spraying mechanisms in their tails. Perhaps some might have crop dusting equipment, but the tail would be a very poor place to put it. It would throw off weight distribution. As far as a military helicopter... it's conceivable that chemical weapons might be carried by a helicopter, but they would likely be carried on the wings or the side of the hull. Again, the tail is a terrible place for it, as it would kick it off to only one side, and it would throw off the weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Rev. 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. Rev 9:7-10 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. You could just as easily have made the title Gargoyles in Revelation?. If you want to know where I got it go to this site: http://www.games-workshop.com/front.UK and find 'Tyranids' in the '40k Universe' section. Which BTW also contains this (just kill the site that pops up after the movie is finished, that's only applicable to 40k nerds like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted February 25, 2003 Author Share Posted February 25, 2003 Some attack Apaches do have chemical sprays from their tails. It matters why they will be attacking. For the gargs... First...it's not realistic. Helicopters would make much more sense for these days...second...the description doesn't match. No crowns of gold (apaches have a golden aura above them when sunlight hits them) no face of a man (pilot of apache) no hair...at all. (see the hair thing in original post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Revelation is just a big bloody chapter of God and his trusted followers slaying and torturing the rest of the earth. As God is so damn mighty, it'd be small feat for him to simply make the unbelievers die in a normal fashion without all the needless gore and pain involved. The picture given of God, Jesus and Christians in Revelation should be enough to label them all as murderous psychopaths. That's not to mention all the real impossibilites and logical faults in it. It's mentioned several times that the earth apparently has "four corners" and that stars can fall to the earth. The "locusts" are commanded to not hurt all the grass that has been burned off the face of the earth a few pages back. An angel swears, even though it is condemned by Matthew and James and only God is allowed to swear. Then you have a Jesus with a sword sticking out of his mouth, and a "great whore" which apparently does many foul deeds. All in all, while a few of the ramblings in Revelations could be seen in coincidence with modern techonology, most of it could never be mistaken for our time - blood colouring the ground, Jesus being seen by everyone (only on a flat earth would this be possible), the sea becoming blood and heavenly objects such as the sun the stars and the moon being smitten so as not to shine so bright. Creatures and beasts such as lions, calfs and "flying" eagles are mentioned, which have could not have been mistaken for technology - just the ravings of a madman seeing "visions". The scary part of these prophecies is that I could actually easily imagine Christians attack or prevent the aforementioned "supercomputer" from being built, and trying to kill someone they decided to label antichrist. I also just can't forget that according to Christians, not all religions are equal and they're against the EU, for it is apparently a part of Satan's big plan. You scare me. I guess the authors of the Bible liked the idea of, after spending pages upon pages of being do-gooders, having a major gorefest and the murdering of all unbelievers to justify their patience and to terrorize people with faltering faith in the LORD, and to bully heathens into submitting their free will to the ramblings of an old book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 As for the attack helicopters: The sting of the tail: If it were indeed a gas he saw, he'd probably describe it as a gas. And it's far more sensible to mount such a gas spraying device on an airplane instead, as helicopters are far too slow to avoid the anti-air fire while making strafing runs. As Shock said, the weight distribution would go haywire. The wings: In fact - the missing wings. John describes the sound of the wings as loud, but helicopters don't have any wings. The rotors obvsiously can't be mistaken for wings, as they're apparently the "hair" of those beasts. The golden halo: First of all, there's no "golden halo" on modern attack helicopters, as they're designed to be as stealthy as possible while on missions - to have them reflect light as massively to make them appear as having a golden halo would be a severe disadvantage during night raids. Secondly, anything has a "golden halo" in the right circumstances - I'd have a golden halo standing in front of a light etc. And the golden halo produced by anything metallic would be so faint and insignificant that John would probably describe something quite else. The teeth of lions: This is quite obviously him seeing visions of terrible beasts and him combining ancient greek myths (chimera, manticore) to produce some fantastic beast. If it was indeed weapons he was talking about, he'd probably be trying to describe the fire and explosions caused by them (as is generally done in Revelation anyway). Shaped like horses: The locusts are shaped like horses, simply enough. This doesn't tie in well with the whole helicopter thing. Breastplates: The beasts are armoured, nothing new. If he saw helicopters, he'd probably freak out from seeing that they were all metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by RpTheHotrod It's been mentioned by thousands. The Bible gives detailed "descriptions" of the "end times", and those details do fit this day and age. Yeah, I guess when John said "things which must shortly come to pass"(Rev. 1:1) and "the time is at hand"(Rev. 1:3), he really meant two millennia later. Or maybe when Jesus said "I come quickly"(Rev. 3:11, 22:7, 22:12, 22:20) four different times, he actually meant "I come slowly". John was just stoned or making crap up. If it was really a revelation, then it would have happened long ago, as John and Jesus both said it would. Unless they were wrong, in which case all of the revelation would be suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 I'm gonna have to agree with C'jais on... well, everything he said. I'd like to add that the 'helicopter' theory is extremely far fetched, as the passages you outline only meet one criteria, and even that's shaky (the breastplate thing). If you're seeing helicopters in those passages, it's because you want to see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 I don't want this thread to turn into wheather or not the Bible/christianity is real or not. If it does, I will close the thread. This thread is about wheather or not the description can be interperated as a helicopter, so let's leave it at that. Personally, I think it is a good point. The helicopters can be described like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Christians have the habit of interpreting every vague prophcy in the Bible to modern because they want the end times to come because they seem to have major issues with everyone dying and going to Hell...save them. Damn us heathens...us logical, science, technology loving heathens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by obi-wan13 Personally, I think it is a good point. The helicopters can be described like that. But do you say that in a "yeah, the prophecies could probably fit on this, if you look at it the right way"-way, or do you directly imply that "the end times" are nigh? Because, y'know, if you mean the latter, then I'm getting a bit worried about my own hide... I don't want this thread to turn into wheather or not the Bible/christianity is real or not. It overlaps quite abundantly, sad to say. But I'll try to restrain myself, and not just shoot huge volleys of flak in the general direction of the Bible itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 I mean it can be described that way, like a riddle type thing. Like, describing a side walk or something: I am always outside, rain or snow, with the grayest of feeling, being controlled. See, something like that is what I meant, like in a poetic sense. I know you don't like the Bible and some of it's views, I was just saying that this thread shouldn't turn into religion, because that isn't what it was meant for. It's no different then someone posting a picture of Jesus playing basketball. Something like that wouldn't meant to be viewed in a Religious, get-on-your-knees sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by munik What he describes is fantastic. A helicopter is not. Even though he may have never seen anything like that before, he has seen metal. And that is what they are made of. He doesn't mention metal at all. I figured you missed the "breastplates made of iron" part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckcsaber Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 The hardest thing for your theory to prove Rp, has to be the their faces were as the faces of men How could they see the face of the pilot? I doubt that John was that close, and the pilot would be wearing a helmet, so he would never actually see a face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted February 25, 2003 Author Share Posted February 25, 2003 btw, I never said it WOULD be attack helicopters and tanks. I'm just saying, for thousands of years, people thought it would be a demon-like/alien-like creatures...but "what if" John was just seeing the attack helicopters and tanks of today? It's just an interesting "what if" I thought I'd bring up. Yes, there is a golden "aura/crown" that is visible on helicopter blades. I used to have a picture of it, and it looked like a huge golden circle was hovering above the chopper. Also, as I mentioned, perhaps it was talking about the helmet...but I don't see how anyone could think a pilot's helmet is of gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted February 25, 2003 Author Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by ckcsaber The hardest thing for your theory to prove Rp, has to be the How could they see the face of the pilot? I doubt that John was that close, and the pilot would be wearing a helmet, so he would never actually see a face Look at the picture I posted. I see a pilot just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.