How to stop the idiotic RPG elements that will be forced upon you in JK3

[joesdomain]

Can someone explain to me the difference between Role-playing game and first person shooter? I always consider Dark Forces, Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight, and Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast as first person shooter. Then again how can it be first person shooter if you are using a lightsaber and not a gun.

[shock ~ unnamed]

In DOOM you can switch to fists, Quake an axe, any less of a FPS?

Nope.

[HertogJan]

And you DO get to shoot things, right?? And the enemies shoot at you, whether you're holding a saber or not, right??

[Bacon00]

Unnamed, you're post about booting people who bow made me laugh... best post on this thread so far, lol!

 

it's so true, but some people are so ignorant that they don't see the obvious connection between that absurdly sarcastic statement and what is really going on in JO, and what WILL go on in JA unless us "competetive" players don't put up with rpg crap on non-rpg servers.

 

I'm all for having RPG/"friendly" servers for all the "fanboys" to go onto and enjoy themselves. They get to play the game how THEY want.

 

But when I go onto a public, generic server, I'm not gonna start bowing and chatting. I'm going to shoot them, and shoot them often. Or slice them.

 

Whatever.

 

But when I do this, I'll get called a "lamer" and get flamed.

 

That's very angering - if I flamed them for bowing and chatting, they'd be apalled.

[Guest Jolts]

this is what you'll get in jka, and every other star wars fps/3rd person action adventure multiplayer online game ever made from now until the end of time. It is the star wars curse.

 

http://www.gamingfiles.com/screenshots/7/potd/1047698763.jpg

[shock ~ unnamed]

Perfect example here guys, recent too.

 

I'm sure you are all familiar with that Jedi Council map every saber only server runs.

 

Well I stopped by the server of the clan who made that map the other night because I was told this was the *best clan in JK2 period.

 

 

I go in and start playing a little FFA.

I take some guy out and he starts in with "You're ******* dead you noob".

 

I say "ok kill me then".

 

For the next 15 minutes I have three of them ganging up on me 3 on 1 and insulting me the entire time with profanity and general "saber noobie" like insults (gay/lamer/noob/no honor).

 

Score at the end?

 

16 me.

0 saber noobie 1

0 saber noobie 2

0 saber noobie 3

 

Instead of flaming back and forth with them I simply told them to chill out, it's late and not worth the effort arguing at this time of the night.

 

I proceed to their forums and issue a very friendly challenge for a team match between our clan and theirs.

 

Next day I'm in their server and I *openly ask if it is fine to attack players with sabers drawn.

 

They say yes and I proceed to wipe out every one of them who is fighting.

 

After less than two minutes I find myself being once again insulted and ganged up on.

 

Although this time I have an admin empowering himself because he repeatedly was unable to get the job done with out the help of his precious RPG mod.

 

Funny thing is after being ganged up on by 4 people, an admin who empowers himself, a member who keeps trying to kill me when I'm typing responses to his insults *I'm branded the "lamer".

 

Yeah me the guy who asked what the rules where and never broke a single one.

 

This is exactly why I hate this "honor" garbage.

Damn near 99% of the people (clans or players) who spout off about it are the biggest bunch of hypocrites when they get frustrated from losing.

 

The people who run off at the mouth about honor and bowing are the first ones to call you every four letter word in the book when you beat them.

 

But don’t take my word for it, read for your self.

Every word in that thread I stated about how they behaved (on page two) was true and not one of them denied any of it.

 

Yet I’m the “lamer”.

 

http://www.orderofthejedi.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2425&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[Hekx]

Originally posted by Jolts

this is what you'll get in jka, and every other star wars fps/3rd person action adventure multiplayer online game ever made from now until the end of time. It is the star wars curse.

 

http://www.gamingfiles.com/screenshots/7/potd/1047698763.jpg

I'm sure Raven will make the game balanced for RPers and Gamers. If not, they'll lose out on a lot of audience and potential money income.

Their target audience should fit for both types of player.

[ryudom]

that camping picture is halarious haha

[Mandalorian54]

If we don't have a problem with people RPing in RP servers then the RPers shouldn't have a problem with us not RPing in normal servers.

 

I guess you can't do anything about it if your week, but I'm gonna kick any scronny RPers if they wine about my not RPing.

 

I don't care if they RP in a normal server, I am bothered when they wine or say we should RP. And they'dd better leave if they don't like it!

 

If I feel like it, I may just go into servers for the purpose of hunting RPers.

 

RPing is fun sometimes. But if someone is playing capture the flag and says you can't kill them if they have the flag and thier sabers down. I don't care, I'm gonna kill them anyways. And if they bug me enough I may just only kill them until they leave.

 

I won't kill anyone simply cuz they RPed, but if I'm tied with someone with 19 pts, and the limit is 20, your gonna get killed saber down or not!

 

If you put your saber down in a match, I'll wait three seconds for you to lite it up again, if you don't, good bye. It's not tag, and theres no T.O.

[Rad Blackrose]

Originally posted by Mandolorian54

If we don't have a problem with people RPing in RP servers then the RPers shouldn't have a problem with us not RPing in normal servers.

 

I guess you can't do anything about it if your week, but I'm gonna kick any scronny RPers if they wine about my not RPing.

 

I don't care if they RP in a normal server, I am bothered when they wine or say we should RP. And they'dd better leave if they don't like it!

 

If I feel like it, I may just go into servers for the purpose of hunting RPers.

 

RPing is fun sometimes. But if someone is playing capture the flag and says you can't kill them if they have the flag and thier sabers down. I don't care, I'm gonna kill them anyways. And if they bug me enough I may just only kill them until they leave.

 

I won't kill anyone simply cuz they RPed, but if I'm tied with someone with 19 pts, and the limit is 20, your gonna get killed saber down or not!

 

If you put your saber down in a match, I'll wait three seconds for you to lite it up again, if you don't, good bye. It's not tag, and theres no T.O.

 

... Didn't we already establish the fact that there is a difference between RPers and "fanboys?"

 

Sorry mods, but this needs to be said:

 

Welcome to last week!

[Deadeye]

Hey. How the hell do you bow anyway?

 

 

 

I'm not really a newb, since I've played the game since March 29, 2002. I never really got that good at MP. I was ususally near the middle of the rankings. Anyway, the RPG crap never really bothered me, but the principal is rather lame I think.

[DigitalVapor]

Ladies and Gentleman!!! LET THE FLAMING BEGIN!!!!! BACON, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?! AT WHAT POINT WAS IT SAID THAT THIS BOWING CRAP IS BEING FORCED ON YOU IN JK3??? AND WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH "RPG ELEMENTS"??? THE ONLY THING RESEMBLING A REAL RPG ELEMENT IN JK3 IS THE CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION. OUTSIDE OF THAT IT IS JUST QUAKE 3 WITH LIGHTSABERS. YOU DONT WANT TO BOW? HUNT FOR A SERVER THAT DOESNT ENFORCE IT OR START YOUR OWN! BOWING AND EMOTES ARE NOT EVEN A REAL PART OF THE MULTIPLAYER GAME!! THESE ARE THINGS DONE BY THE PLAYERS. THE EMOTES IN JK2 WERE INTENDED FOR THE CINEMATICS IN SP, SOMEONE JUST WANTED TO PLAY WITH EM IN MP. THAT DOESNT MAKE IT A DELIBERATE ASPECT OF THE GAME

 

[Edit Taos - Let's be nice to others shall we?]

[acdcfanbill]

DigitalVapor, if you ever post again like that you will be placed under a ban. Firstly, all caps is discouraged almost everywhere anyone posts. It is also very inapproprate to insult other members of this board. Any more of this pseudo-flaming and name calling will not be tolerated, but still feel free to discuss the subject. Thanks you.

[Eldherald]

Originally posted by Jedi220

What a mature attitude. Sir, I salute you. *salutes*

 

 

 

Newbies? Excuse me sir, but if you're going in there killing everyone with no rhyme or reason, it appears that you're acting sort of newb-ish.

 

 

 

 

Whoring peeps is the way you like to play? Jeez, I don't think that's the point of the game...it may be in an FFA, but if you're dueling, then by all means no. Who respects an opponent who comes in and slashes the living crap out of everyone?

 

 

 

What name will you be playing under? I'd like to ban you in advance from any servers I run.

 

 

 

Hey im with you, these are all that makes JK2 different from CS, Quake etc...

[Bacon00]

Vapor, I think your post and how it was written speaks for itself.

 

I see no reason to waste my time arguing with you.

 

[Matariel]

When JK3 is released, I'm killing anybody and everybody.

 

If you want to play like that, play quake or something, jk2 is not that kind of game.

FFA's aside, duels must be handled with some ettiquete (which these forums are sadly without lately). In a duel, saber off means dont attack, you're just a talentless weasel if you kill them like that. If the other guy doesnt budge and sits there with the saber off, walk away, terminate the duel, kill him in FFA, whatever.

 

Its bastards like you guys that i dont like to play this game online, if you want a fragfest, play quake okay?

[shock ~ unnamed]

Originally posted by Matariel

If you want to play like that, play quake or something, jk2 is not that kind of game.

FFA's aside, duels must be handled with some ettiquete (which these forums are sadly without lately). In a duel, saber off means dont attack, you're just a talentless weasel if you kill them like that. If the other guy doesnt budge and sits there with the saber off, walk away, terminate the duel, kill him in FFA, whatever.

 

Its bastards like you guys that i dont like to play this game online, if you want a fragfest, play quake okay?

 

CLICK ME

[Matariel]

??

yeah, starwars galaxies, whoop-di-doo, i have heard of it.

Relevance?

 

As i said before, if you want a fragfest, play quake alright?

JK is supposed to be a game of skill. not a game of whoever can think of the most weasely way to quickly kill your opponent. Jedi knight was made so that people could play a jedi from star wars in a game. Have you seen star wars at all? They fight for a while in their duels, taunting each other, testing each other. Not one swing and they're dead.

 

And just one thing, exactly what RPG elements will be 'forced' upon us in JA? All ive heard is that you can choose the look of your character. Oh no! the RPGers have invaded! whatever shall we do!?! I must now go commit mass psycho murder in a jk2 server!

[shock ~ unnamed]

Originally posted by Matariel

??

yeah, starwars galaxies, whoop-di-doo, i have heard of it.

Relevance?

 

As i said before, if you want a fragfest, play quake alright?

JK is supposed to be a game of skill. not a game of whoever can think of the most weasely way to quickly kill your opponent. Jedi knight was made so that people could play a jedi from star wars in a game. Have you seen star wars at all? They fight for a while in their duels, taunting each other, testing each other. Not one swing and they're dead.

 

And just one thing, exactly what RPG elements will be 'forced' upon us in JA? All ive heard is that you can choose the look of your character. Oh no! the RPGers have invaded! whatever shall we do!?! I must now go commit mass psycho murder in a jk2 server!

 

 

I have a better idea than playing Quake though.

How about I play JK3 and get really good at it like I did JK2.

 

This won’t be hard because people like me who play it for what it is (a game not a fantasy world to escape into) tend to get really good really fast because our sole focus is winning.

 

Now after I have gotten really good I will start to do what I do now in JK2:

Go onto public servers and kill every single person there regardless of whether they want me to or not.

 

See the nifty thing is even though these people try to stop me and really want to stop me they simply can’t. I didn’t spend the last year bowing, bitching or complaining.

 

I spent it playing and progressively getting better and better.

 

I’m not joking, you have no idea how many of us competitive players absolutely enjoy watching fanboys go nuts when we hit public servers just to mess with them.

 

99% of the time we don’t even have to say a single word, just kick them to death and the Caps Lock laden insults start pouring out.

[Luc Solar]

Originally posted by Matariel

As i said before, if you want a fragfest, play quake alright?

 

Quake does not offer what JO/JA does. It does not have a saber or force. And I'm quite curious of what exactly a FFA is but a fragfest? Kill and score points, yes? Deathmatch?

 

JK is supposed to be a game of skill. not a game of whoever can think of the most weasely way to quickly kill your opponent.

 

And by weasely or dishonourable or lame you mean "whatever I wasn't prepared for or couldn't counter"? You do see how silly that would be, I'm sure. Secondly, what relevance does "skill" have with all this? The more skilled wins. The one with less skill ends up whining about "laming". That's how it is.

 

Have you seen star wars at all? They fight for a while in their duels, taunting each other, testing each other. Not one swing and they're dead.

 

This comparing a game to the movies-thing is really starting to piss me off. First of all: it's not a movie. Secondly: every single one of your movie-comparisons is total BS. No, A jedi and Sith do not chit-chat honourably, taunt, test each other or whatever. Remember Maul and Qui-Gon in the desert? Maul just attacked! Didn't even bow! How lame, huh?

 

How about Maul, Obi & Qui-Gon? How many times exactly did they kneel and bow before starting to fight? How many swings did it take for any saberist to kill another one in the movies? One.

 

So let's just drop the whole "movie-argument". It's way beyond retarded.

 

...exactly what RPG elements will be 'forced' upon us in JA? All ive heard is that you can choose the look of your character.

 

It's not te elements that we're worried about. It's the idiots who constantly whine about anything that does not go exactly according to their OWN little Book of Honourz.

 

If I feel every Jedi should scratch their ass before a duel, would you find that cool? And if you said: "well, I don't want to scratch my ass", I'd reply: "WTF LAMMER NO HONOUR!" and kick you off the server.

[Matariel]

look, i like a good game of jk2 FFA as much as the next guy, but when someone kills me while sitting perfectly still, typing something into my console, or chatting (sabre in or out) i dont take kindly to it. You cant tell me that thats a weasel kill. Please dont tell me that the strafe jumping business "separates the vets from the n00bs", it just makes you look like an idiot when u do that move, its worse than the CS bunnyhopping. It may make you go faster, granted, but it doesnt take any 'skill', so get over yourselves.

Nobody has even spoken of lightning spamming yet, but where i play its a big no-no, running into a group of already fighting ppl and killing the lot of em with lightning, thats just not on.

And what i mean by using skill to win a duel, is a fair fight. No pull-backstab kinda stuff (and i still think its good thats out now), no one shot kills. I know these are possible in jk2 with the red stance and a poor defence, but it really shouldnt be like that. One all powerful move shouldnt be allowed, its bad game design.

And about the Maul/Qui-gon/Obi-wan duel, it was pretty silent, but remember maul only had 2 lines in the whole film.

And i dont know where this bowing crap came from, i certainly dont do it (but at lans we juggle the mice up and down and start trash-talkin each other ) but we do that stuff for FUN. Thats why people do these things, for fun. If you dont think its fun to do these things, dont play on those servers. I cerntainly will quit any server who will kill me with my saber down, or when im typing something.

But i still think people who kill like that is better suited to quake type games.

My opinions people, none of us are wrong here, we just have different opinions.

Why cant anyone in this forum be friends?!?! For about 2 weeks after it started it was fine...then the yoda model was leaked, and it just went downhill from there....

[DigitalVapor]

Look, after what I hope was only a short tiff with he moderators about my uncharacteristicaly outspoken anger with the initial comments of Bacon00. All I have left to say is this. Dont trash a game thats not even out over somthing the game has no control over, and dont complain so much about the developers patch jobs because they only do what you ask them to. Its not right so say "fix this" then when they do say "Oh well Thats not good enough, do THIS-" And lastly, If you dont like how people play the game, play somewhere else or get over it, but shut up about it. Shoving it down people's throats only causes trouble.

 

Calmly Recomposed,

Digital Vapor

[Rad Blackrose]

Originally posted by Matariel

look, i like a good game of jk2 FFA as much as the next guy, but when someone kills me while sitting perfectly still, typing something into my console, or chatting (sabre in or out) i dont take kindly to it. You cant tell me that thats a weasel kill. Please dont tell me that the strafe jumping business "separates the vets from the n00bs", it just makes you look like an idiot when u do that move, its worse than the CS bunnyhopping. It may make you go faster, granted, but it doesnt take any 'skill', so get over yourselves.

 

Then steer clear of the no holds barred servers and stick to the servers that have rules put into effect on them, simple.

 

And "strafe jumping" does require practice, and as such is then skill. Not everyone can bunnyhop.

 

Nobody has even spoken of lightning spamming yet, but where i play its a big no-no, running into a group of already fighting ppl and killing the lot of em with lightning, thats just not on.

And what i mean by using skill to win a duel, is a fair fight. No pull-backstab kinda stuff (and i still think its good thats out now), no one shot kills.

 

I took out the movie part because I was ready to bludgeon myself over the head with a blunt object.

 

Flash back to ye olde days of medieval warfare. Dueling existed back then. And guess what? Anything went. If you could coup de Jarnac your foe, then you won. Fairness in a duel is an oxymoron, at best.

 

Also, there were so many counters available during the pull/backstab era, it wasn't even funny. All I see you doing here is whining about how you can't counter a certain move. I find dueling to be like chess: It is actions and counter actions that are resolved to the death of one person (or both if the winner is bleeding pretty badly).

 

Absorb negates lightning, welcome to "How to play Jedi Knight II 101."

 

But i still think people who kill like that is better suited to quake type games.

My opinions people, none of us are wrong here, we just have different opinions.

Why cant anyone in this forum be friends?!?! For about 2 weeks after it started it was fine...then the yoda model was leaked, and it just went downhill from there....

 

Opinions are like *******s, everybody has one.

 

I am so trying to resist the temptation to flame up a storm right now...

 

And this didn't start with the Yoda model, get your facts straight.

[Solo4114]

Interesting posts, overall.

 

This HAS been a big problem with the JO community, but it's a problem that has hit more than just the JO community. Admittedly, the RPers aren't play the game as intended, but as long as they're playing on their own servers with clearly marked rules, more power to 'em. I hope they have fun.

 

By the same token, people who use glitches, such as the backstab or strafe jumping or the blue lunge in mid-air, those who say they play to win and to win alone are arguably using techniques not intended for use (assuming they're bugs that haven't been coded around yet) and are ALSO not playing the game as intended. And, like the RPers, as long as they're playing by server rules, more power to 'em. I hope they have fun.

 

The real problem comes into play when two distinct communities come into contact. As has been stated, these communities are the competitive players and the "friendly" players. I'm also going to include the "casual" players in the "friendly" category: these are the players who do want to play the game to kill folks, who do want to play it as intended (IE: not RPing or glitching), but who are less concerned with winning, necessarily, and more concerned with having a good time independent of winning. This is the problem that plagues all of online gaming nowadays: you have people who are willing to play one way in order to win at all costs, and others who view certain tactics as BS. Who's right? Who the hell knows. Take BF1942 for example. There's a constant debate in that game about spawn camping (camping an enemy's uncapturable base and killing them as soon as they spawn). On the one hand, people say "It's not prevented by the game, and dammit, I want to win." That's often the competitive gamers. On the other hand, there are folks who say, "Spawn camping is lame and ruins the fun of the game."

 

I tend to fall more into the latter category, but I ALSO accept the fact that if I go onto a public server, especially an un-admined one, I run the risk of dealing with people who will be only too happy to spawn camp.

 

By the same token, when players, either RPers, "friendly"/"casual" players, or competitive players all meet on a public server, they should accept that you're essentially living in Thunderdome. And no, we can't get Beyond it. (pats self on back for obvious lame joke) We all have to accept that, on an unadmined server, the majority will rule.

 

That said, I'd like to propose a NEW code of honor (or honour, if you're on the other side of the pond).

 

1.) Do not force your playing style on someone else on a PUBLIC server.

2.) Do not vote people off of the server unless they are actually cheating in order to win.

3.) Do not vote someone off SIMPLY because the are winning.

4.) Play by the rules of the server.

5.) If you don't like the gameplay on the server, leave. If everyone's RPing and you want to frag, find a frag server, rather than sitting on the server complaining. If you want to RP and everyone's spamming the backstab move or what have you, don't sit there and say "OMFG!! LAME!! SABRE OFF = PEECE!!!" Just leave and find a server more to your liking.

 

One thing that REALLY helped me get over being pissed at people who use what I happen to consider lame tactics is finding a group of folks who feel the way I do and who play on a private server. It's not a clan, it's a gaming community. If you really want to have fun, find yourself a community similar to this, or form your own.

 

Meet on the boards, like this one, discuss how you like to play (DISCUSS it, don't flame people about it), and hopefully you'll find a group of like-minded individuals. Once you've done this, hopefully one of you will have access to a server or will find a server that shares your views. Go play there. I guarantee you'll have MUCH more fun and have much less anger about how other people play when you're playing with people who play the way you like.

 

In the meantime, consider everyone online as a libertarian: don't try to tell 'em how to play unless the rules of the system are set up that way to begin with.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Solo4114

That said, I'd like to propose a NEW code of honor (or honour, if you're on the other side of the pond).

 

1.) Do not force your playing style on someone else on a PUBLIC server.

2.) Do not vote people off of the server unless they are actually cheating in order to win.

3.) Do not vote someone off SIMPLY because the are winning.

4.) Play by the rules of the server.

5.) If you don't like the gameplay on the server, leave. If everyone's RPing and you want to frag, find a frag server, rather than sitting on the server complaining. If you want to RP and everyone's spamming the backstab move or what have you, don't sit there and say "OMFG!! LAME!! SABRE OFF = PEECE!!!" Just leave and find a server more to your liking.

Good points. And "Honour" also applies to us above the 49th parallel