Matrix Reloaded: Reviewed (err... kinda)

[Surfnshannon]

yes - that guy is Agent Smith. Or so I believe. I believe in one scene in the movie we see smith replicate himself into that guy and then he makes that phone call and gets out into the "real world. Also...that guy is the only one left from the attack from the sentinels...so somehow Smith can stop sentinels just like Neo. So its pretty scarey that guy is laying across from Neo.

[Largo-LaGrande]

maybe he stoped some senticals aswell

he could be ''The One#2''

[HertogJan]

Originally posted by Death_Jedi

maybe he stoped some senticals aswell

he could be ''The One#2''

 

Nah that theory sucks... No offense

 

 

"When you die in the matrix, you die in the real world as well: the body can not live without the mind". That's what they said. There is a connection between your mind in the matrix and your body. If your mind gets infiltrated by Agent Smith (who copies himself) in the Matrix, you still are a smith copy (with your own body though) in the real world!!

 

And keep in mind Neo himself is the one # 6 I think Neo could stop the sentinels because TWICE (once in the first movie, once when Smith tried to copy himself in the second) he was infiltrated by pieces of Smith. He had a direct connection with 'the system' as it exists in the real world, so he could order the sentinals to 'self destruct' or shut down when he was attacked by them...

 

Eldritch's theory sounds as the best theory so far

 

[Largo-LaGrande]

The One#6 when did u find that out?

 

and he proberly gets infected when agent smith trys to turn him into a copy of him not when he jumps inside him in the 1st movie.

 

Then why would that guy be luying beside him in a coma?

well there is more then one ship other then morphus right? so that guy that cut his hand and was gonna stab neo proberly was in it then he was turned into a copy agent smith in the matrix, then he went into the phone and came into his origional body but he is agent smith inside

[Surfnshannon]

The architect tells Neo that he is the 6th "The One"

 

I think that it is Neo that infected Mr. Smith when he broke his code in the first movie. Mr. Smith has some of Neo's abilitys...and it seems as if Mr. Smith is figuring out Neo's capabilitys and powers before Neo does!

 

I believe that the reason that Bain (a guy who was body snatched by Mr. Smith) cut himself is Mr. Smith testing what it's like to be "human" to bleed. Now that Mr. Smith is a rogue program..he too is trying to escape the Matrix in his own personal power trip. He want's to be "The one" and rule the Matrix and that is why he needs to get rid of Neo - since he can't get rid of Neo in the Matrix...he needs to escape to the outside world via Bane and kill Neo there since neo is "only human" and can be killed outside of the Matrix. That's why I don't believe in the Matrix inside a Matrix Crap.

 

I also feel that the reason Neo can stop Sentenals is for the same reasons. When Neo infectected Mr. Smith his code merged with Smith's. So smith got neo's powers, neo got some smith powers. Including controling Sentenals. That's why he feels something. Neo "feels" or senses the Smiths ...and he now can feel things outside of the matrix...ever since Smith hightailed it to the real world. Now he feels Smith...and can controll sentenals because Smith has the abilty too (Smith controls them in the first movie). I think neo collapsed because it took everything he had to tap into this new power.

[Darth Groovy]

I saw the movie on Sunday, my overall score would be about 95%, I thought it was big fun, and a pure joy to watch. My only gripes were that it was in fact a bit difficult to follow at times, but not very often. The scene with that annoying French prick, contained too much dialogue and the guy lost me at times with all of his annoying analogies. About halfway through his speech, I felt the dire need to reach into the film and rip out his vocal chords. And just what the hell WAS that French dude anyways? The scene with the Architect lost me completetly, and hopefully will be cleared up in the next film. I thought the white twins were cool, but I don't fully understand exactly what they are, and nobody has been able to answer that for me yet.

 

I think the general problems with most sequals, is that people these days are much more keen on new ideas and concepts, than continuations of the previous movies. We have seen this with Star Wars, Rocky, Jaws, Men In Black, and other giant big screen movies. The Original Matrix was cool at the time because it had bleneded a certain degree of sci-fi, with martial arts, and had a unique comic book quality to it. I think my own mother said it best when she exclaimed her dislike of martial arts, but was keen on the idea of "Humans as Batteries", to this day the idea still "gives her the creeps". Plus, at the time, like Star Wars, it allowed for groundbreaking special effects. Now that those effects are now a Hollywood norm, it is difficult to impress the general public now. Unlike Rhett, I enjoyed the Highway scene alot, it made me scream at a couple of points, but my favorite scene is definitely Neo beating the crap out of that army of Agent Smiths. Overall I feel the film definitely succeded on inmproving on the first, and like LOTR, we already knew that this film is not just a sequal, but part of a bigger saga, so I don't see what the big deal is. I do agree with Rhett, that the big Zion dance was nothing more than an excursion in blatent erotica, to further enhance the love scene between Neo, and Trinity. That scene was not as explicit as some conservatives have lead us to believe, but we all knew that scene was inevitable, because the romance only started at the end of the first Matrix movie, so basically, it WAS necessary.

 

I do agree with the public, that we need to see more fresh Ideas, and less sequals these days, but I also feel that fans are too fickle and trying to over-anylize the Matrix movies, is an excersise in futility. Just make the most of it, they are designed for entertainment, not as a science project.

[Surfnshannon]

they should have stoped making Jaws the second time they killed him.

 

how many movies can you make about killing a stupid shark

 

4...oh wait 5 (if you count Orca), no 6 if you count Deep Blue Sea

 

Don't forget Rocky! how many of those can there be...or Karate Kid....I mean Karate Girl...come on....

[Darth Groovy]

I personally do not feel that any sequal to Jaws was necessary. Like Psycho, it is a timeless film, that did not leave anything open for a sequal. Yet hollywood in their blatent attempts to make more money, will ALWAYS produce a sequal just to bring in more money. Thankfully, a sequal to E.T. was never made, and rightfully so. I have seen all of the sequals to Jaws, and by the second movie, I was rooting for the shark to chomp everything, because the people were starting to annoy me. Jaws III was only cool to me, because at the time, it was the first 3D movie I had ever seen. But once you take away that 3D element, the movie really sucks. And then we moved on to Jaws 4: The Revenge, that scene where the shark jumps up almost all the way out of the water, and gets stabbed by the bow of the ship, has got to be one of the worst blunders in Hollywood History. Besides, who in their right mind, could ever believe that a shark would attack a specific family, considering that sharks have no brains whatsoever. I rember Orca a silly film that involved a killer whale, starring Richard Harris, that movie was a blatent spin off, that had no redeeming quality whatsover, and the fact that "Orca" was the name of Quint's fishing boat in Jaws only firmly confirms that. The thing that made the original Jaws work so well, was the people that populated the film, and the interaction between the main stars being Cheif Brody(Roy Sheider), Matt Hooper(Richard Dreyfus), and Quint(Robert Shaw), they made the movie memorable.

 

Deep Blue Sea wasn't terrible, it built on an intersting concept, but eventually turned out to be a typical event movie, with the usual event movie characters, (L.L. Cool J. playing the typical African American comic relief...) with alot of throw away dialogue and typical predictable circumstances. (the one who cries the most, always has to die)

 

It is just an inevibility that Hollywood is governed by the dollar, not the interests of the intelligent film viewers.

 

By the way, STTCT, that is a totally awsome sig, I saw the trailer for Finding Nemo, and I have to admit that I am a total Disney buff, and will probably be seeing that movie in a theater!

[Eldritch]

That's pretty much my exact theory, STTCT... been doing some reading? (I posted it earlier)

[Surfnshannon]

great minds think alike

[Eldritch]

Heh... it just seemed logical to me. Well, more logical than some of the other theories floating around out there.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by Darth Groovy

And just what the hell WAS that French dude anyways? The scene with the Architect lost me completetly, and hopefully will be cleared up in the next film. I thought the white twins were cool, but I don't fully understand exactly what they are, and nobody has been able to answer that for me yet.

 

I alreayd asnwered allll of your questions higher up.....well, not ALL of them, I didn't completely explain the architect, but watch the movie again and you'll pick up more.....

 

Just so you don't have to go sifting through all these posts, i'll re-print what I wrote earlier.

 

 

The twins are deleted programs in the matrix.....while we are unsure of what program they were initially, we know that they chose to remain in the matrix instead of returning to the source for removal.

 

The french guy is the same...just a different program.

[HertogJan]

I just remembered that Merovingian AKA the French Guy said to Neo that he survived all of Neo's predecessors (sp?), so he's a very very old program AND he has faced 'The ones' before

[Eldritch]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

I alreayd asnwered allll of your questions higher up.....well, not ALL of them, I didn't completely explain the architect, but watch the movie again and you'll pick up more.....

The Architect is the Artificial Intelligence that designed the Matrix and how to hook the humans up to it. That's it... I thought it was pretty simple.

 

The twins are deleted programs in the matrix.....while we are unsure of what program they were initially, we know that they chose to remain in the matrix instead of returning to the source for removal.

It was never actually stated in the movie that they are exiled programs (programs are deleted only once they've returned to the source). It seems a safe bet, but I think they're more than just old programs. Many of the Merovingian's thugs are programs from an older version of the Matrix, so they might be as well...

 

The french guy is the same...just a different program.

Again, it never says that the Merovingian (the French Guy) is an exiled program. They call him old and very dangerous, and power hungry, but never exiled. He obviously wields a great deal of power, as he can write new programs for the Matrix (like the cake).

 

Hertog - I think his exact words were, "Mark my words boy... and mark them well! I have survived your predecessors, and I will survive you!"

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by Eldritch

The Architect is the Artificial Intelligence that designed the Matrix and how to hook the humans up to it. That's it... I thought it was pretty simple.

 

 

It was never actually stated in the movie that they are exiled programs (programs are deleted only once they've returned to the source). It seems a safe bet, but I think they're more than just old programs. Many of the Merovingian's thugs are programs from an older version of the Matrix, so they might be as well...

 

 

Again, it never says that the Merovingian (the French Guy) is an exiled program. They call him old and very dangerous, and power hungry, but never exiled. He obviously wields a great deal of power, as he can write new programs for the Matrix (like the cake).

 

Well yeah, we know that the Architecht was the creator of the matrix, but I think Groovy was confused about the message that he gave to Neo more than what he was......

 

And no, it does not explicitly state that they are exiled programs....but it does so indirectly when the Oracle talks about how vampires and ghosts are just instances of exiled programs.....I forget the exact words she used........

 

And you can't for sure say that MANY of his thugs are from older versions of the matrix....two of them at least, yes.....but even so, if they are from older versions they were probably slated for deletion, but chose to remain in exile.

[Eldritch]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

Well yeah, we know that the Architecht was the creator of the matrix, but I think Groovy was confused about the message that he gave to Neo more than what he was......

I've actually got the whole Architect scene's dialogue written out on my computer... think it would help if I posted it?

[HertogJan]

Originally posted by Eldritch

I've actually got the whole Architect scene's dialogue written out on my computer... think it would help if I posted it?

 

I wonder why you didn't already

[ET Warrior]

I dont know.....it might help those that didn't understand it if they could read it..........I'm pretty sure that I got it.....but reading it would probably be good...I know I'd like to analyze it even more in depth......

[Pad]

[bTW, this post contains spoilers, so if you havent see reloaded, skip to the next thread ]

 

Much like that other great Keanu Reeves vehicle, Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey, The Matrix: Reloaded centers around the hero's journey into the Underworld. Frazier, in The Golden Bough, notes that it is a prophetess—in this case, the Oracle—who sends the hero off on his journey, from where he returns with special knowledge. And, of course, that's just what Neo does, though it would have been a while lot more amusing if he'd had Alex Winter along. (The Oracle probably isn't entirely benign, by the way, even though she may not consciously intend any harm: She is, after all, the one who sent Neo on the path to the Core.)

 

Neo's first task is to rescue the Keymaker (Randall Duk Kim, doing his best Rick Moranis impression) from the Merovingian, who is a daemon—in both senses of the word—left over from a previous version of the Matrix. (The Merovingians were the ruling Frankish dynasty; they were succeeded by Charlemagne's family, the Carolingians, and then by the Capetians, who thought they were descended from Christ.) The guy in the health food store where I buy my granola and soy milk thinks that The Merovingian was one of Neo's predecessors, but all the explanation I need, as well as the way I understand his obvious fascination with human pleasures, is found in Genesis 6:4—"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them. . ." According to various sources, including Kabbalah, this mating of men and angels (here, a computer program from an earlier version of the Martrix) is what produced various monsters, such as the vampires and wraiths that serve the Merovingian. Dante, bringing a Christian sensibility to the proceedings, placed these monsters in his Inferno. Thus, though the Merovingian is sort of an antediluvian remnant of the former world, he's also (as is shown by the fact that his wife is named Persephone) kind of like Hades, the holder of the keys to the underworld. What the Keymaker does, much like the golden bough the Sybil gives Aeneas, is open doors and permit Neo access to the underworld—or, in this case, the Core.

 

After the requisite battles and explosions, Neo gets into the Core and finds The Architect. Considering that The Architect built the Matrix, you might think that he's God. Of course, he's nothing of the sort. In Gnostic theology, it is Satan, not God, who has created the world in order to imprison humanity. It is also the Architect who is unleashing the Sentinels to destroy Zion; that is, beginning the Battle of Armageddon. It is my prediction that in the third and final film, it will be revealed that there is a power behind the Architect, and that he is the one who sent the One into the Matrix. It is also my prediction that this guy will look a lot like Neo.

 

The important thing is choosing what to believe from the raft of condescending exposition that the Architect inflicts on Neo. He says, basically, that though ninety-nine percent of humans believe in the illusion of the Matrix, there is that troublesome one percent (comparable to the few awakened Gnostic true believers) who refuse to believe in the created world. This tends to produce massive amounts of instability, and crashes the system. (Not coincidentally, most of the people in Zion seem to be black or Hispanic, which makes perfect sense: If you're a white suburban Matrix resident, driving your Matrix SUV to your Matrix golf club, why doubt the nature of reality?) The solution is that they allow the dissidents to escape to Zion, which they can then periodically destroy. They have also created the Prophecy of the One, who is in fact a device sent by the machines into the "real" world so that his knowledge of humanity may be integrated into the system in order to further perfect the Matrix-illusion, and then allowed to re-start Zion so that the cycle can begin again. The idea of multiple creations and a cycle of created and destroyed worlds is, needless to say, also found in theologies as wildly variant as the Mayan and the Buddhist.

 

The idea that the Prophecy—and Zion—were just another means of control is lifted right out of French philosophy. The first movie made use of Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation; this movie seems to be dipping into Foucault and Derrida, who wrote that the systems of power and control are all-pervasive, and language is one of the ways they make their influence felt. The Prophecy is, like all prophecies, speech, and thus language. More importantly, it is a religion, and, as John Zerzan writes, the purpose of a religion is to manipulate signs, that is, words, for the purpose of control. Zion is the longed-for millennial promised land; by keeping the war between good and evil foremost in their hearts, even the freed humans are kept from doubting their own world, from thinking too hard about why things are the way they are.

 

Understanding why things are the way they are requires an understanding of another holy text: Asimov's Laws of Robotics. The machines, as demonstrated by Smith's need to try to kill Neo even after being "freed," don't have free will. (Likewise, in Gnostic theology, angels and other such divine beings also don't have free will—only humans do.) The bit about the machines needing human bio-energy to survive, as Morpheus (the dreamer) explained in the first movie, is bull****. The machines keep humanity alive but imprisoned, even after taking over the world, because they were created to serve people. In other words, the machines would like to destroy humanity, but they CAN'T. Instead, they need a human to make the choice.

 

As the Architect reveals, Neo is not the first One, but rather the sixth. Why the sixth? The answer is that Neo's five previous incarnations represent the Five Books of Moses that make up the Old Testament. Neo (representing Christ, and thus the New Testament) differs from his five predecessors in his capacity to love. In the work of Origen of Alexandria and other Church Fathers, it is love ("eros" in Greek) that compels Christ to come down from the heavens to redeem humanity. Furthermore, "neo" means "new"—as in "New Covenant." In Neo, the machines have finally found the iteration of the One who will make the illogical choice of saving Trinity and dooming humanity. [Note to the theology geeks who've been e-mailing me: I know the difference between eros and agape, but Origen used both terms for reasons I'd have to delve into pre-Socratic philosophy to explain.]

 

This is the Architect's real purpose in giving Neo a choice between two doors. At once all human and all machine, rather than being a device to refine the Matrix into a more perfect simulation of reality, re-found Zion, and thus continue the endless cycle of death and rebirth—as the Architect says he is—the purpose of the One is to be manipulated into destroying all of humanity. However, not having free will themselves, the machines are not able to comprehend it in others—and thus Neo, being also human, is a bit of a wild card. It is Neo's destiny—as was Christ's in Origen's theology—to break the cycle of death and rebirth, and offer humanity a new future. This is shown by the fact that, by the end of the movie, Neo (and also, incidentally, Smith) gain power over machines in the "real world"—which shows that he has power not only over the first—level simulated world of the Matrix, but also the second-level simulation of Zion.

[RoguePhotonic]

I think there is something more with the Merovingian guy...he said to neo "I survived your predecessor and I will survive you" or somethin like that...so guess he had some **** with the last guy that was the one....

 

And what's with the oracle in the game?...all saying she let that happen to her because of some special kid?...might have something to do with the next movie...

[HertogJan]

Well that story was maybe even more confusing than the speech of the architect ever was :rolleyes:

 

He is ineed saying that Neo can control the machines, but he also says Zion is a simulation...

 

I like the connection with all the filosophy and religion though A lot of reviewers say that Reloaded isn't about sotry and filosophy anymore... They should've watched more carefully

 

 

Oh BTW, I just ordered the The Matrix DVD!! Woohooo!! It was priced so low this week even I could afford it

[Eldritch]

I still contend that Zion is the real world, and not some second level of simulation. But as that can't be definitively proven (or disproven), it seems pointless to argue the fact.

 

I also don't think all the Bible references are intentional - people are seeing it there because they want to.

 

Let's just hope everything is revealed in the 3rd movie.

[Andy867]

Actually, they are the Eldritch. The"Brothers" are known to be keen on getting material, and just when you think you have them figured out, they hit you right back. Here are some examples that I have stumbled across

 

* Neo's last name is "Anderson" ("Son of Man") a New Testament title of Christ.

 

* Choi refers to Neo thus: "Hallelujah. You're my savior, man. My own personal Jesus Christ!"

 

* Neo and his disciples are on their way to a city called Zion.

 

* Their ship is called The Nebuchadnezzar, in reference to Captain Nebuchadnezzar

 

* The hull of the ship bears a plate reading "Mark III No. 11". In the Bible, Mark 3:11 reads, "Whenever the unclean spirits saw him, they fell down before him and shouted, 'You are the Son of God!'"

 

* A Judas-like character named Cypher (as in Lu-cypher [Lucifer]) betrays Neo and sells him and his followers (disciples) out

 

* Neo is killed and rises from the dead in 3 minutes. Jesus was resurrected in 3 days.

 

* Neo is resurrected by a kiss from his girlfriend "Trinity." Jesus was resurrected by the power of the Trinity.

 

* After the resurrection, Neo's power is ultimate. The enemy cannot overcome him. Jesus rose from the dead having ultimate power over the enemy.

 

Early in The Matrix, Neo takes a "red pill" and his eyes are opened. He is placed on a chair and sees through the mirror of illusion into the real world. The metaphor strongly resembles the most curious form of oracular activity employed by pagans today - the "psychomanteum;" a simple, yet eerie, idea. A chair, placed in front of a large mirror in a dark room, serves as the oracle. Once positioned on the chair, the occupant stares into the mirror and waits for contact with "the other side." In ancient times, the psychomanteum’s mirror-system was employed by primitive Greeks in gloomy underground caverns called "halls of visions." Standing in front of a shining metal surface or caldron, grieving ancient’s saw and spoke with familiar apparitions.

 

So Like I said, the ideas are there on purpose, not accident.

[Eldritch]

Originally posted by Andy867

* Neo's last name is "Anderson" ("Son of Man") a New Testament title of Christ.

Never heard that one before... got a source that states Anderson = Son of Man? Many Scandinavian names are like that... Bjorksson, Eriksson, etc. It only means that they're the son of Erik (or in Anderson's case, some guy named Ander).

* Choi refers to Neo thus: "Hallelujah. You're my savior, man. My own personal Jesus Christ!"

Choi is also some kind of drug addict and is an obviously unsavory type of guy. Anyone who supplies a junkie's next fix would probably be considered their Jesus Christ.

* Neo and his disciples are on their way to a city called Zion.

Neo doesn't have disciples. He's got friends. There are people in Reloaded who worship him, but Neo doesn't supply any actual spiritual teachings to the masses.

* Their ship is called The Nebuchadnezzar, in reference to Captain Nebuchadnezzar

Nebuchadnezzar is mentioned in much more detail in historical books, not just the Bible.

* The hull of the ship bears a plate reading "Mark III No. 11". In the Bible, Mark 3:11 reads, "Whenever the unclean spirits saw him, they fell down before him and shouted, 'You are the Son of God!'"

This is probably your strongest point. Can't really argue this one.

* A Judas-like character named Cypher (as in Lu-cypher [Lucifer]) betrays Neo and sells him and his followers (disciples) out

The Lucifer thing is a bit of a stretch, but he is Judas-like. Again though, Neo does not have disciples or followers.

* Neo is killed and rises from the dead in 3 minutes. Jesus was resurrected in 3 days.

It was a lot less than 3 minutes. In 3 minutes the Nebuchadnezzar would've been destroyed. He was dead for less than a minute, so I think this is a stretch.

* Neo is resurrected by a kiss from his girlfriend "Trinity." Jesus was resurrected by the power of the Trinity.

I'm not entirely sure that Trinity ressurrected him... but as I can't prove it (or disprove it), I can't argue it.

* After the resurrection, Neo's power is ultimate. The enemy cannot overcome him. Jesus rose from the dead having ultimate power over the enemy.

Yet Jesus did not wield it as Neo did. I wouldn't exactly call Neo's power ultimate just yet. Perhaps by the 3rd movie he'll realize his full potential, but right now...

 

Your "red pill" speech makes some sense. It'd be interesting to know whether or not they actually drew upon that for inspiration.

[Andy867]

Actually, if you remember, Choi was handed some kind of disc/program fron Neo. but in regards to the biblical/historical signifance of the film, here are some facts from different websites.

 

http://www.moviemistakes.com/film.php?filmid=808&type=trivia

 

plus the dvdreviewer along with other sites have similiar observations that states like:

 

* The word "cypher" means: a non-entity, not real, zero...which is what Cypher is; he chooses the Matrix as opposed to reality and being "real". And "trinity" refers to God and a woman in love; Trinity is like Neo's god: she gave him life and saved him from dying.

 

* Other parallels with the life of Christ: Neo taken to a large building and tempted to jump off it; Neo ascending above the street (c.f. Christ's last appearance in the Acts of the Apostles).

 

* Nebuchadnezzar was a biblical Babylonian king who was instructed by God in dreams to destroy the inhabitants of Jerusalem because they worshipped false prophets.

 

* After Neo is "reborn" into the real world and he falls into the sewer, his head goes under the water three times. The traditional baptism requires the head to be cleansed three times for the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

* When Neo is meeting with the Oracle, the music playing in the background in her apartment is Duke Ellington's "I'm Beginning to See the Light," a reference to Neo's continued awakening

 

* Anderson means "Son of Man," as Jesus is often called

 

* Another reference to the Bible - notice when Agent Smith is talking to Morpheus (when he's captured) that he explains how the first Matrix was a paradise and everyone was happy - wouldn't that be like the Garden of Eden?