Space combat among other things...

[Eklin]

Just wondering if there were any plans to include any form of space combat in the game. For me, it's what really defines the star wars legacy. The pilots where what took out the death stars and star destroyers. Not the Jedi. Course, where would Star Wars be without those loveable wielders of the Force? But it would be so much more exciting to pilot an xwing at points and go into dog fights with other players.

 

I was also wondering if there is going to be any neutral characters within towns and what not that don't take either side. It'd be fun to pick off Jawas, just to see them run away like mad. It'd add to the feel of the game. In the movies, not everyone was ready to blast your head off. And it'd also add a nice break between the action.

[JaledDur]

Originally posted by Eklin

Just wondering if there were any plans to include any form of space combat in the game. For me, it's what really defines the star wars legacy. The pilots where what took out the death stars and star destroyers. Not the Jedi. Course, where would Star Wars be without those loveable wielders of the Force? But it would be so much more exciting to pilot an xwing at points and go into dog fights with other players.

 

I was also wondering if there is going to be any neutral characters within towns and what not that don't take either side. It'd be fun to pick off Jawas, just to see them run away like mad. It'd add to the feel of the game. In the movies, not everyone was ready to blast your head off. And it'd also add a nice break between the action.

 

Well, it is Jedi Academy after all so yes, lets not forget about the Jedi... I'm not sure how well the Q3 engine would do with piloting a spacecraft with six degrees of freedom.

 

Neutral characters... well, that was one of my gripes about the Nar Shadda level... a city populated by Rodian snipers *nice*. JK1 had civilians, so did MotS, twas pretty cool since u had to watch what you shot.

 

 

But in the end its a FPS not an RPG, so while they can be expected to use RPG-like elements to try to boost sales, I doubt they'll go hog wild with the idea.

[Eklin]

Yeah, I can understand about the whole space combat thing. I've still got X-Wing Alliance to tide me over until the space expantion of SWG is released.

But neutral characters aren't necessarily an RPG element. Yes, if you look at them and hit the use key they should acknowledge you (just like your allies did in JK2), but that's all they really gotta do aside from wander around a bit, pretend to interact with eachother, freak the moment a fight breaks out, and die like lowly cowards if you feel the need for some senseless slaughter. Realism is important in ALL types of games.

 

In Bounty Hunter (albeit it was a very poor game), there were tons of innocent bistandards to mess with. I'd just like to see something like that in this.

 

EDIT:

One last thing I'd like to add, one of the biggest things they should change, if anything, is the footstep sounds. In the beginning of the trailer, you hear the distinct "clump, clump, clump" as the Jedi walks away from the craft. Thing is, he's on SNOW. Shouldn't we hear some crunching or something like that?

[JaledDur]

Originally posted by Eklin

Yeah, I can understand about the whole space combat thing. I've still got X-Wing Alliance to tide me over until the space expantion of SWG is released.

But neutral characters aren't necessarily an RPG element. Yes, if you look at them and hit the use key they should acknowledge you (just like your allies did in JK2), but that's all they really gotta do aside from wander around a bit, pretend to interact with eachother, freak the moment a fight breaks out, and die like lowly cowards if you feel the need for some senseless slaughter. Realism is important in ALL types of games.

 

In Bounty Hunter (albeit it was a very poor game), there were tons of innocent bistandards to mess with. I'd just like to see something like that in this.

 

Yeah it would be nice if they did more (NO, no conversations) like react when you draw your saber close to them, or scream and run away when a fight broke out. Of course we had the prisoners in JO... and that Imperial officer that you had to lead around for a while... But they werent exactly neutral, just interactive objectives.

[txa1265]

Personally the 'man the gun' type of thing, like they showed in the KOTOR 'shaky-cam' video, would be fine for me. I'd like a little more than was in JKII, but I'm not a fan of space combat ... I tried XWA and could never get into it.

 

Mike

[Gabrobot]

Raven was playing with the idea of having a flyable X-wing in JKII...there's a cheat that allows you to pilot an X-wing... (sort of)

[Emon]

Space combat is a possibility, but a slim one. It has nothing to do with the engine. Raven has the source code for the engine, they can do anything with it. The problem is that it's a First Person Shooter, not a space sim.

[ToppDog]

I longtime dream of mine...we discussed this on the Vehicles thread a few days ago.

[StormHammer]

I can't see a huge problem with flying a starship in space, because there are various ways to fake a starfield moving, and having other ships flying about.

 

What I don't think we'll see is any kind of vessel that can fly high over terrain...due to the restrictions on the map sizes. If you look at the helicopter level in SOF2, you were in a fixed position, and most of the terrain was hidden by a mist effect. They could do something similar with JA...but it would have to be in a proper context, and not just tagged on...

 

I think we've still got some way before we see the type of seamless transition from flying and running and gunning in this series that is supposed to be in Mace Griffin. As I said before, they built the engine from the ground up to enable them to make that feature an integral part of the gameplay. I'm not sure a similar thing could be done with the modified Q3 tech.

[boinga1]

You wanna fly, get a GameCube and Rogue Leader, or get the old Rogue Shad for PC. Sorry, but flying isn't gonna be in JA. Someone would have said something, and to make quality skying they'd take longer to get the game out anyway.

[The Count]

Originally posted by Eklin

 

In Bounty Hunter (albeit it was a very poor game),

 

 

Bounty Hunter was NOT a poor game.

[ToppDog]

Yeah, It's either not going to happen, or will be in a limited capacity like StormHammer described. Maybe within 5-10 years. But I'll be waiting, LOL

[babywax]

Space maps are not hard. It's much easier to render for the engine than normal maps even, MUCH less polygons, I.E. there is no map, it's just a big open space. You already have all 5 axi's in the game, it's not a big addition. All you have to do is make a map, very large, and put invisible boundaries around the entire inside of the map, then put little light sprites behind those boundaries, then put a black sky behind that. This way it gives the illusion that you're moving past a real sky. This would be a very welcome addition.

 

Think about doing some sort of siege on hoth, with snow speeders attacking AT-STs or whatever they're called lol

They would have to be limited in number, but that would be great!

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by babywax

Space maps are not hard. It's much easier to render for the engine than normal maps even, MUCH less polygons, I.E. there is no map, it's just a big open space. You already have all 5 axi's in the game, it's not a big addition. All you have to do is make a map, very large, and put invisible boundaries around the entire inside of the map, then put little light sprites behind those boundaries, then put a black sky behind that. This way it gives the illusion that you're moving past a real sky. This would be a very welcome addition.

 

Actually, the map wouldn't have to be that large, and it could be done a different way. You just make the spaceship you are piloting stationery and allow it to pivot in any direction, and have a particle system to generate a moving star-field, which speeds up and slows down according to the speed of your 'ship'. Then you just introduce other ships as targets to shoot at, which could always come at you from an angle so you never physically see them spawn into the map.

 

That's probably the way I'd do it...if I had any programming skill...

 

But when you are talking about flying over a landsurface at any height...that's where the problems start to appear. Raven partially solved it in SOF on the train level by keeping the train stationery and generating a moving terrain around it - just like the way they used to film Thunderbirds. But if you want complete freedom of movement to fly in any direction over that terrain...then yes, indeed, you'd probably need a very large map, and it would have boundaries. For a flying craft, hitting those boundaries will shatter your 'suspension of disbelief' and make the experience less immersive. That's why in SOTE when you were about to reach the map boundaries with the snow speeder the game took control and turned you around.

 

Now...if they could take the train level from SOF as a start point and keep your craft stationery (in a horizontal plane) while giving you vertical movement, and then move the generated terrain in ANY direction...that would solve part of the problem. However, I don't know if you could then have building models generated on the fly that appear on the ground, or indeed, enemies. It's probably possible, but might need a great deal of work to make it feel natural. Anyway, I would really doubt that you could then land your craft at any point on such a generated terrain, and go exploring on foot. You'd have to ask a programmer/level designer how difficult a proposition that is.

 

I'm sure that kind of thing will be possible soon, but I imagine it may be beyond the current engine capabilities for JA...

[ToppDog]

Yes. Beyond the JA engine, & also beyond the memory requirements of todays computers. But it is on the way (someday). We have already seen things leaning in this direction in many games, including some pretty old ones.

 

Does anyone remember the game "IGI - I'm Going In" (the first one, not the sequel)? The game itself sucked due to other factors, but the really cool thing about it was that this was the first game to use the engine of a flight sim in a FPS. The maps were HUGE!!! You could hike over mountains forever.

 

If a game designer thought on that sort of grand scale when designing a game engine, it could be possible. The engines would have to be able to handle incredibly large land based topography like those in flight sims. But they would also have to be able to handle the memory required to make all the little objects/buildings as detailed as they would be in an FPS's with detailed maps of each floor etc. instead of a giant box with a texture slapped on the outside.

 

The same would be the case with the space missions: The capitol ships would not just be shapes with textures on them to look like ships, but would instead be actual floating maps of that entire ship, complete with AI characters or other MP players, that you could land on & explore.

 

I don't foresee this type of gaming experience anytime soon, but with the advances in computing power, memory, etc. we may get to see it before we're in nursing homes.

 

By then the games will come in huge game packs with a single dvd (or it's successor) for each mission, Gigs will be a term referred to RAM instead of processor chips, & we'll be using head tracking visor/headsets instead of monitors, etc.

 

Oh what a glorious time it will be! *prays to the gaming Gods*

 

Would be cool, huh?

[Solbe M'ko]

Hi again, folkles!

 

Look at Shadows of the Empire, it had some missions where you man the gun while the ship flies on it's own. That would not require any huge additions to the current game. Also, look back at the drivable APC in that one version of CS, that game was never meant to support that kind of thing, but it got done anyway. Also, look back at TIE Fighter, I never once hit the edges of one of those maps, I think it was because after you got to a certain point, you stopped moving, even though your speedometer stayed constant and the particles kept going by.

 

I just found X-Wing Alliance in the bargain bin ($8.00, and that's in Canadian!) and I would really like it, if my joystick weren't such a sensitive peice of crap. It's cool that you can hyperspace between individual maps within a single level. I wonder what a system like that could do for the next Jedi Knight game...

 

Anyway, space combat has always been my favorite part of Star Wars, so anything new is welcome. *Sits in cave, waiting for new TIE Fighter game and combing cooties out of long, chinese-style mustache...*

[toms]

i love space combat... but unfortunately you would almost certainly get something with terrible, FPS-like physics which actually felt more like you were FPSing in space (Freelancer anyone?) than something that felt like a proper space sim.

 

Very few games manage to mix genres well, usually you get 2 crummy games tacked together, rather than the one excellent game you could have had if they had concentrated on a single genre.

 

I would rather lucasarts actually finished XWA! It was the first X-wing game which didn't have a complete plot, and it was the first one without an expansion pack.... how does that work??!!??

[Solbe M'ko]

Star Wars+Descent=Loss of Faith in Lucasarts

 

The X-Wing/TIE Fighter series is still my favorite, after all these years (Monkey Island: a close second) because it was long, fun, and had a real story that affected gameplay. Half-Life? Pshhht! TIE Fighter was the greatest game ever, as far as I care.

 

I would, however like to see a blend of several game types (here I go again) in a Star Wars game. If you could fly your ship over to Tatooine, talk to Jabba, get him mad, get chased by Fett, join the alliance that would be cool. I would like to see a mixture of command and action, like in Natural Selection. You could have one guy playing a Homeworld-like RTS, while all the others flew B-Wings and carried out his orders. That would not be nearly as hard as implementing RTS/FPS, as the simple space-combat system would be much more flexible...

[Prime]

Originally posted by Solbe M'ko

I would, however like to see a blend of several game types (here I go again) in a Star Wars game. If you could fly your ship over to Tatooine, talk to Jabba, get him mad, get chased by Fett, join the alliance that would be cool. I would like to see a mixture of command and action, like in Natural Selection. You could have one guy playing a Homeworld-like RTS, while all the others flew B-Wings and carried out his orders. That would not be nearly as hard as implementing RTS/FPS, as the simple space-combat system would be much more flexible...

The biggest reason why things like that haven't been done is that it would be a huge undertaking, probably too much for any one company to deliver. Developing a FPS or RTS game is one thing, but developing all of those together would require a lot of resources and time, especially if you are going to do each part justice.

 

Besides, many people who want to play a FPS do not want to have to go through RTS or simulator elements to finish the game. It would be very hard to please everyone with all the combined gametypes.

[Tyler_Durden]

Space combat would be awesome in this game however i just don't see it happening, at least not now. Maybe somewhere down the line we'll get the true jedi treatment to be able to do whatever we want.

 

An idea i have is to make a jedi game that's like morrowind one of the MOST IMMERSIVE games i ever played. It's essentially a first person game as well as third person and is simply HUGE!!!!. Choose the class and race you want to be and select the force powers you think are most important or no force at all. maybe going through a trial or two to learn new ones, maybe like test your might mortal kombat style levatating heavier objects or dueling with a fellow jedi in training or master to learn how to block and parry. Learn how to do mind trick by learning speechcraft. Buy new outfits, maybe some mandalorian armor or a new jedi tunic. You could literally spend weeks looking around and doing whatever you want. Hell you don't have to even be a jedi. Be a bounty hunter or a combination of both or just a simple person trying to make his way in the universe.

 

Maybe as a young jedi padawan accompanying your master to a trade dispute between two worlds or raiding a pirate operation with your fellow bounty hunters. you could get a contract to go take out a person who owes another guy some money. When you meet up with him you can persuade him to hand the money over or just blast him altogether. Or as a jedi, ultimately deciding whether you want to be a sith lord or fight for the right as a true jedi master. Best of all the game supports multiple npc's and comes with tools for modifying and making your own levels.

 

there are at least 10-15 worlds you could visit, maybe some hidden worlds. How bout checking out the cloners' progress on Kamino or making a run to Tatooine, going to mos eisley and having a drink at the cantina, you don' like the ugly guy having a drink next to you? Taunt the bastard. on your way out make a stop to free a prisoner from the local hutt. what about a whole planet based on Coruscant with buildings and skyscrapers all over the place? You could jump up and down on the rooftops of buildings or go to a senate meeting. You'd get lost for sure. And inbetween travelling around worlds you could fly in space (hence the need for further development). Have a bunch of jedi starfighter missions to take out a ship. Or have a whole squadron go up against an armada of fighters and capital ships. When you go to the next quadrant you hit a button and jump into hyperspace. Need repairs? Dock at the local space station, your capital ship or land on the closest planet. Buy an astromech to automatically repair damage to your ship while you're off on a mission.

 

I think the morrowind part being able to go and do whatever on a single world is can be done for a star wars game right now. Really the only things lucasarts has to do is modify the game so that combat is like Outcast or JA or better. Ok maybe the flying is stretching a bit but maybe one day soon. Realistically speaking this game could max out at 5 gigs at the most. But who doesn't have at least a 20 gig hard drive nowadays right? Or just release the game on one dual layer DVD. Hell lucasarts should call up Bethesda software now and buy the engine rights to make this bitch. The question is, would they ever take the time to actually make a game of this caliber?

 

Maybe JK4 or something all new? I hope the dudes at raven and lucasarts are reading this.

[txa1265]

When I think of this I think of SotE (Shadows of the Empire) and how it had some cool areas, and some that just s*cked. I would love to see it as a 'side game', like the 'shoot the tie fighter' bit in JKII, but expanded and a bit more control given. I think much more than that would pull too much focus from doing what is needed - which is making the best FPS they possibly can.

 

Mike

[Prime]

Originally posted by txa1265

I think much more than that would pull too much focus from doing what is needed - which is making the best FPS they possibly can.

Definitely, especially considering a finite budget and resources.

[txa1265]

Originally posted by Prime

Definitely, especially considering a finite budget and resources.

 

Obviously you (also) have to work in the real world ... unlike (seemingly) many here still in high school, who (as is their wont at that age) expect everything for nothing.

 

Mike

[Khaza]

Tyler you really should take a look at this page:

 

http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/

 

That is/will be like 90% the game you described.. well allmost

[toms]

didn't Alleigence allow one player to RTS and give commands to the other players who were actually flying the units... that game looked cool, though im not sure it is still going.

 

i still think that until lucasarts can start doing ONE genre right they shouldn't try doing cross genre games.

 

Its a shame there is currently NO simulation market on the PC, as i always wanted a decent land based tie-fighter-like simulation with snow speeders and walkers. and they still haven't made a decent RTS or a decent 4X game.

 

Personally, if they were going to put in flying then i would want it to be a sim of Tie-fighter standard, and it would most likely be of a crummy, below starfighter arcade standard.