Lil Killa Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Jedi acadamy coiuld be considered the 3rd chapter in the series so Jedi Kight 3: Jedi acadimy or somefink like that. that answer your jk 3 question or are we all in a stet of utter confussion? On the other hand I think someone should start a petition for a beta:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen[fk] Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 It's actually the fourth game in the series though, which I feel is why it's just Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy. JK3 is just a term we've given it. Dark Force Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Originally posted by Solo4114 For the moment, I don't think this will be that big of a deal in MP combat. There are a number of variables that can come into play which will offset this being an uber-power, or just an upgrade to force-lightning. These factors include: - initial force cost - rate at which it drains the users mana pool - rate at which it drains the target's health - corresponding rate at which it INCREASES the user's own health - whether the power can be used at will, or whether it is like lightside's healing power (IE: only useable when you're damaged). - range and breadth of the power itself. If drain costs a ton, or drains slowly from your target, or uses up mana QUICKLY from your pool, or gives you little by way of health, or has a short range and a narrow field of fire (unlike lightning), it can be balanced. Personally, I suspect that drain will be the dark side's offensive answer to "heal", and I think this will be a good thing. When playing as a darksider, one of the MAJOR disadvantages in JO is that you have no ability to heal yourself through the force, only through medpacks and bacta. Sure, you could remove an opponent's ability to heal themselves too, by draining them dry, but even so, that didn't really feel, well, nasty enough for me or balanced enough. Arguably, lightside was more powerful in JO. Most of the darkside powers could be cancelled by having a strong absorb backed up with a strong heal, and there was no need to spend points on protect or mindtrick or whatever the other force powers were. I know I almost exclusively used absorb and heal. By contrast, darksiders NEEDED to have drain in order to quickly replenish their mana pool, and had have at least one, if not two strong offensive powers (grip, lightning, rage). Having force drain function like force heal (only requiring you to have an enemy target) is both nasty enough to make it a darkside power, and useful enough that it keeps things balanced in terms of light vs. dark. So, assuming they give it roughly the same healing abilities as heal (and they really should have BOTH heal and drain operate gradually, as opposed to JO's method of recovering one big chunk of health at once), and not allowing it to be used when you have full health will help keep the powers distinct as well as keep the two sides of the force well balanced. Finally, so long as both heal and drain restore/drain health at a reasonable (IE: not super-fast) rate, there shouldn't be a problem. To me, I think that both powers should be MUCH slower than their JO counterparts. You shouldn't be able to heal instantly, and you shouldn't be able to drain an opponent dry in 2 seconds. We need to know EXACTLY how the force powers work, aside from just a general sense of their overall function in the game before we start claiming imbalances. I'll admit, I'm not encouraged about some aspects of the game, based on interviews and such (IE: the lightsabre combat sounds like it'll be a whole lot of flash, but fundamentally unchanged in terms of damage/strategy from the last game), but bear in mind, this game is supposedly more mod-friendly. We just need to wait and see. some interesting thoughts tho i disagree with gradual healing, it would make the lightside totally useless, as for drain being effective as a life stealer i disagree. the ability to heal has always been a dedicated light power and making the darking the dark side effective at this would be like the lightside having force lightning. i throw up every time when i see how f'ing crap the light side is at duels!!! duels are the game type (baring FFA) where the powers should be even. giving the lightside some medicre offense would cure the game of side imbalance. this is the problem of the lightside that i will metaphor. dark has a throwable rock, light has a shield and can block the rock. dark throws and light blocks the rock. both men are no worse off than before, BUT initially dark had a chance of hitting light. even tho the light was ok and countered, dark atleast had a chance to achieve something... they need to give the light side "something to gain" at the chance that it may be blocked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemios Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Originally posted by Rockstar this is the problem of the lightside that i will metaphor. dark has a throwable rock, light has a shield and can block the rock. dark throws and light blocks the rock. both men are no worse off than before, BUT initially dark had a chance of hitting light. even tho the light was ok and countered, dark atleast had a chance to achieve something... they need to give the light side "something to gain" at the chance that it may be blocked... I totally agree. Many Dark Side players complain if they can't hurt Light Side players with their Force Powers. But they at least HAVE THE POSSIBILITY to hurt, Light Jedis HAVEN'T. So I think force powers should be only tools, not the way to win. Jedis have some tool to resist more and Sith have some tool to hurt more, and each tool NULLIFIES the other if used properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 i seem to keep suggesting this, but lightside powers that: (a) reflect force attacks back at their caster (b) sever the target from the force, preventing them casting and maybe © Taint their connection to the force with the other side, causing them to recieve a small bit of damage when they use the force would be a good way to start. I do think that lightside defensive powers should be less "turn on and leave on" and more short lived, instant reaction powers though. Absorb might be made a lot more powerful, but made to last a much shorter time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo4114 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Originally posted by Rockstar some interesting thoughts tho i disagree with gradual healing, it would make the lightside totally useless, as for drain being effective as a life stealer i disagree. the ability to heal has always been a dedicated light power and making the darking the dark side effective at this would be like the lightside having force lightning. i throw up every time when i see how f'ing crap the light side is at duels!!! duels are the game type (baring FFA) where the powers should be even. giving the lightside some medicre offense would cure the game of side imbalance. this is the problem of the lightside that i will metaphor. dark has a throwable rock, light has a shield and can block the rock. dark throws and light blocks the rock. both men are no worse off than before, BUT initially dark had a chance of hitting light. even tho the light was ok and countered, dark atleast had a chance to achieve something... they need to give the light side "something to gain" at the chance that it may be blocked... I have to disagree here. I always play lightside, and I find it gives a distinct advantage. Think about it for a second. Any force power that a darksider throws at me, I can block with absorb. If he managed to get through and damage me at all, I can heal it. Alternatively, I can take a more proactive route, turn on absorb the instant I get into the duel and go on the offensive immediately. Or, I have the option to wait the enemy out. Put simply, lightside, when effectively used, makes it all come down to sabre skills. Hell, I can even leave absorb off, attack, get hit, heal myself, let him toss lightning at me, turn absorb on, and beat the snot out of him. I'd have to say dark side seems more underpowered to me because their powers can all be blocked easily, and they have no ability to defend/heal themselves. Lightside doesn't NEED offensive powers because it can effectively negate any force attack, and just close in to use sabres. As for things being gradual, I'd prefer it for both sides, since it would create the possibility that you could hit the guy while he's in mid-heal/drain and prevent a full recovery. The instant-gratification method means that, with a touch of a button, your opponent has healed 50% of his health. A gradual method would allow you to smack the other guy around while he's only up to, say, 30%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 I originally thought light was better for ff too. For 0 regen it still possibly is better than dark. But I play mostly 200 regen and ill explain why dark is better. The answer is drain and grip. The standard rule is not to use force to damage, but to kill completely. Wasting force just to damage allows your opponent to drain you of your energy. Suppose you put on absorb. Then a good darksider will either wait for you to take absorb off or attack you directly without using lightning or drain. Any force you use will use up force and as long as absorb is on. You will run low because the other guy won't be using force to give you alot of force like lightning. He'll use pull throw and throw pull kick to do damage without you gaining significant amounts of force. Well, if you decide you need to heal, you have to gain force back by taking off absorb. At this moment he can lightning you or drain you devoid of force. So a good darksider would consistenly hit you with small bursts of lightning until you are willing to use absorb. Then he would wait while rolling around for your absorb to go down. If you take off absorb he'll start using lightning again until you put absorb on. After he thinks you are low again and you take off aborb again. He'll drain you to 0 while he himself remains at about 70% force. Then he'll grip and kick you while you have no force left to push or absorb away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo4114 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Which would be all the more reason for me to go on the offensive anyway, and just close with him to duke it out with sabres. If he keeps his distance, I'll turn off absorb and wait for him. Essentially, light side is a shield, dark side is a sword. Me, I prefer to rely on sabre skills and outlast the other guy, and for most of the servers I played on (which didn't alter the recharge rate), that wasn't a problem. I also played before people used nothing but pull, push, and kick to win a match, and would actually bother to take you on with a sabre. Now a big part of what would help with the force powers is having correspondingly deadly sabres, such that any 2-3 hits MAXIMUM from a sabre and you're dead. If people could actually frickin' kill each otherwith sabres, they might rely less on the force and more on the weapon itself. (which, to me, is more fun anyway) Mostly, I view the force as a supplement or a tool to allow me to close the distance and attack with the sabre. To me, the sabre fighting is the most fun aspect of jedi combat (as opposed to gunner combat, if you want to break it into categories), and the force just lets you perform tasks that allow you to use the sabre more effectively. That's just my style though. I guess I like my fights more like the films. Less force stuff, more sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 If you turn off absorb he’ll repeatedly lightning you until you put it back on. After you put it on he’ll stay just out of range of saber until you waste away absorb or take it off, when he’ll choose to lightning again. He won’t engage directly unless he’s superior at kicking. In which he’ll just kick you until you take off absorb to heal when then he’ll drain you to keep you from healing while he gains what hp he has lost back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo4114 Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 ...And this would be why I got out of the JO scene. It all ended up being who could execute the best force combo first, or who could use whatever uber move. The sabre became largely disregarded simply because people didn't have the patience to fight it out. And I don't really blame them, given that you had to really wail on a guy to get a kill in JO. That's why I'm hoping the sabres will be MUCH more lethal in JA, so that people will get back to using the force as something to supplement their sabre abilities. Otherwise it'll just be grip/push/pull, kick, rinse, repeat, lightning/drain, the other guy hits heal, throws his sabre, pulls/pushes and then kicks, and finally someone gets annoyed and does a backstab or something. Yawn-o-rama. Gimme a real sabre fight, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Unfortunately, most server admins don't realize that all saber problems in 1.04 can be fixed in like three cvars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Originally posted by lllKyNeSlll If you turn off absorb he’ll repeatedly lightning you until you put it back on. After you put it on he’ll stay just out of range of saber until you waste away absorb or take it off, when he’ll choose to lightning again. He won’t engage directly unless he’s superior at kicking. In which he’ll just kick you until you take off absorb to heal when then he’ll drain you to keep you from healing while he gains what hp he has lost back. Thats 110% correct mate. sorry Solo but you can't fight the fact that the lightside does need some offense. Toms, i also really liked your ideas. the fact is we know that even after seeing yoda reflect lightning in Ep 2, raven still think that the lightside is just a shield, that when attacked goes "no, no, plz no not in the face!! ouch!! leave me alone!!" i don't think the lightside should have powerful offense, but just some weak offense that would only seldom be able to be used, but would make the lightside better than useless for duels, which are THE trademark of the JO mp game. Tho i do agree with Solo when i say the skill behind lightsabers should be the determiner of a good ranked player rather than knowing what send from their finger tips..... even if it were more lightsaber based, we'd still have the problem of the lightside being offenseless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen[fk] Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Originally posted by Solo4114 I have to disagree here. I always play lightside, and I find it gives a distinct advantage. Think about it for a second. Any force power that a darksider throws at me, I can block with absorb. If he managed to get through and damage me at all, I can heal it. Alternatively, I can take a more proactive route, turn on absorb the instant I get into the duel and go on the offensive immediately. Or, I have the option to wait the enemy out. Put simply, lightside, when effectively used, makes it all come down to sabre skills. Hell, I can even leave absorb off, attack, get hit, heal myself, let him toss lightning at me, turn absorb on, and beat the snot out of him. I'd have to say dark side seems more underpowered to me because their powers can all be blocked easily, and they have no ability to defend/heal themselves. Lightside doesn't NEED offensive powers because it can effectively negate any force attack, and just close in to use sabres. As for things being gradual, I'd prefer it for both sides, since it would create the possibility that you could hit the guy while he's in mid-heal/drain and prevent a full recovery. The instant-gratification method means that, with a touch of a button, your opponent has healed 50% of his health. A gradual method would allow you to smack the other guy around while he's only up to, say, 30%. I'll duel you right now, you lightside, me darkside. First one to ten, I guarantee you don't win. There's very few REAL GOOD lightside full force duelers. And I'm not that great at 1v1 ff dueling, but I bet I'm good enough to kick your JEDI but with my super SITH powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen[fk] Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Originally posted by Emon Unfortunately, most server admins don't realize that all saber problems in 1.04 can be fixed in like three cvars. And those are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Mr Joshua is right, altho u can absorb all you've done is countered an attempt at hurting, but what has the sith lost?? we NEED a force reflect or something close..... its just stupid!! after all we need it to gain balance, if anything the lightside should be stronger. after all it did win didn't it??? *sigh* also i wish there were less darkies in the servers. 2 things determine why someone chooses something: efficiency and appeal. the dark side is already more efficient, and as for appeal, being evil has always seemed to have a larger and more popular appeal on average. so if the light WAS better, we would still see those 'bad to the bone' no gooders being emselves , which is good to see someone choosing a side for what it is, not coz they have too Originally posted by Nemios I totally agree. Many Dark Side players complain if they can't hurt Light Side players with their Force Powers. But they at least HAVE THE POSSIBILITY to hurt, Light Jedis HAVEN'T. So I think force powers should be only tools, not the way to win. Jedis have some tool to resist more and Sith have some tool to hurt more, and each tool NULLIFIES the other if used properly. thats right man.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo4114 Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Well, I see your point guys. Like I said, I left JO for good shortly after 1.04 came out precisely because all I saw were people using the force and executing uber-moves, or just spamming kick a lot. It got very VERY boring for me, precisely because I prefer to match skills with an opponent using the sabre and only a few force powers. Maybe Lightside could be more offensive, but in a defensive way. I like the idea of a force reflect power, or maybe you could have a power that lets you absorb an enemy's attack, hold it for a short period, then channel it back at them. A modified version of absorb. It'd probably be easier to just code a straight reflect power, though. Actually, you could do it using the code for sabre defense, but have it only affect force powers. That might actually work pretty well. The power would be more deflection and less REflection at lower levels, but the higher you went, the more accurate you'd be at turning a blast against an opponent. As an alternative, you could bring force blind back, but give it to lightside and have it work based on like a huge flash of energy coming from the lightside player's body. Any darksider within range and who was looking at the player would be blinded for a short period, depending on the level of the power. Alternatively, someone in here suggested a power that lets you cut off your opponent from the force. Maybe instead of that, you could just block THEIR force powers from getting out at anyone else (but they'd still be able to use self-focused force powers). Something like force wrap or force envelop. You basically just encase them in your own force wall (hey, maybe that's a good name), and require them to turn to the sabre. The higher your level, the tighter the wall. And if you're only at, say, level 1, when you close to sabre range, they'd still be able to blast you, since you'd be inside thewall at that point. Something like that. I dunno. Anyone else have any ideas for offensive light side powers that don't really screw up balance or turn lightside into darkside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Originally posted by Rockstar Mr Joshua is right, altho u can absorb all you've done is countered an attempt at hurting, but what has the sith lost?? we NEED a force reflect or something close..... its just stupid!! after all we need it to gain balance, if anything the lightside should be stronger. after all it did win didn't it??? *sigh* also i wish there were less darkies in the servers. 2 things determine why someone chooses something: efficiency and appeal. the dark side is already more efficient, and as for appeal, being evil has always seemed to have a larger and more popular appeal on average. so if the light WAS better, we would still see those 'bad to the bone' no gooders being emselves , which is good to see someone choosing a side for what it is, not coz they have too You're wrong and you're searching for the solution from the wrong place. The darkie has lost force. That gives the lightsider an advantage. A lightsider can also use the force to attack f.ex by mind tricking the opponent and hitting him in the back. In 1.03 light side was superior, especially in all weapons games because they had absorb which helped a lot against pull-backstabbing. Light is still imho superior in all weapons games. If the 1.04 drain was nerfed while heal buffed, people might switch to light side. We don't need nor want any force reflect (that requires a ton of additional coding and results in yet another useless key to bind... a power that's "seldom used" and actually only accomplishes one thing: Rockstar gets to do the thingie that Yoda did in a MOVIE - shoot lightning and still get to be the good Jedi-guy) You're also wrong about "evil" being more appealing. That's your opinion and it differs from mine. I've never used dark side except for the few times I've played saber only games lately and wanted to experiment with grip-kicking etc. The dark side is cool for those who like the dark side. For the rest of us (50%?) light side is more fun. Just my humble opinion, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Most of the times when ppl say the dark is superior they mean by sabers. Dark side is almost useless for gunning. I can see raging being of some use in ffa gunning. But I can still kill more and avoid death by a combination of protect, speed and absorb. In 1v1 darkside is almost useless in gunning because of the pulling aspect. I don't like the usage of a force_reflect because its not feasible. How would it work? Just a force field that works like force push? or thorns like on a paladin in diabloii where the opponent takes damage for attacking. Third I don't think it would help the lightside more just because of the fact you could just wait out a reflect. In ffa how would people's computers be able to handle the mass amounts of packets being sent on reflect data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunedain Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 I'm with Solo4114 all the way on this. The problem with JKII is that the duels end up often being nothing like a real lightsaber duel would be. It ends up being a bunch of spamming of kicks or the same dumb force combo's. Which is totally unrealistic. Raven needs to fix the lightsaber duels to make them more realistic and less like an arcade game. The whole notion of being able to force choke someone (which no doubt takes great concentration) and then trying to kick them is stupid to begin with. Getting rid of that junk would be a good start. And the kicks themselves are totally fake. They are way too easy to hit with. And it shouldn't just be some instant animation that takes place, but an actual move where the opponent trying the kick is extending his leg out, which will leave him open for a strike to his body and also to his leg, which is now conveniently extended for it to be sliced off. In other words you should be able to directly and effectively counter attack against a kick attempt, as you're opponent leaves himself open. Also a kick should never land against an opponent that has his defense fully up. If you try to kick a Jedi who is prepared and has his saber at the ready, then not only should the kick not hit the enemy, but you should take massive damage for jumping directly into a lightsaber. Basically, attempting to kick a Jedi in a lightsaber duel should involve realistic *risk*. And it currently doesn't, and it's one of the most abused and unrealistic things about saber duels in JKII. Hopefully Raven has fully corrected this glaring problem in JA. Winning a duel should be mostly about how good you are with a lightsaber when using authentic techniques and tactics, not relying on spamming and fake arcade actions. And the lightsabers should be deadly, 2 or 3 hits and you're toast. None of this hit after hit and the guy is still alive somehow nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 sabers and force push reflecting blasters seems to work ok I'd see it being similar, you hold down the force button and it creates a shield infront of you that is invunerable to the force.. reflecting the attqacking powers off in a random direction. At higher levels, if you have your cursor over the attacker (or even someone else) while holding the button it would send the attack back at them. For attacks like destruction, with a physical projectile it would bounce off and head back, like a blasterbolt. For lightning it would chain off the shield and back towards the caster, for other attacks like drain it might just cancel out. However, it would only work on a close frontal area, and only while held on (so only for short periods). And you wouldn't be able to activate any other force powers while holding it. It would therefor be a case of good timing, and activating it as you see an attack coming at you, rather than just having it on all the time like absorb. Think of a combination between the shield in Requiem: Avenging angel and the Reflect Power in Wheel of Time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Hate to nitpick (well okay, I admit, I enjoy it) but: Dark Force Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy Jedi Academy is actually the FIFTH chapter in the series. - Dark Forces - Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight - Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith - Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast - Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy ; ) I wouldn't diss drain just yet, as others have pointed out, this may be only how it works in SP and may be totally different in MP. Also we don't know how all the other powers will work and how they will be tweaked or changed to balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 i personally think kicks should be a huge gamble, as should the lunge... while the game makers say that the jedi is left open for some time, it is clearly not enough... Originally posted by toms sabers and force push reflecting blasters seems to work ok I'd see it being similar, you hold down the force button and it creates a shield infront of you that is invunerable to the force.. reflecting the attqacking powers off in a random direction. At higher levels, if you have your cursor over the attacker (or even someone else) while holding the button it would send the attack back at them. For attacks like destruction, with a physical projectile it would bounce off and head back, like a blasterbolt. For lightning it would chain off the shield and back towards the caster, for other attacks like drain it might just cancel out. However, it would only work on a close frontal area, and only while held on (so only for short periods). And you wouldn't be able to activate any other force powers while holding it. It would therefor be a case of good timing, and activating it as you see an attack coming at you, rather than just having it on all the time like absorb. Think of a combination between the shield in Requiem: Avenging angel and the Reflect Power in Wheel of Time. THAT IS SUCH A GREAT IDEA!!! thats an awesome thought toms i must confess, my ideas of force reflect being used after taking in enough energy from force absorb are nowhere near as good as this think about it if force reflect was totally different from force absorb - absorb: takes in energy into the jedi's force pool - reflect: while using this power no other powers may be used (no absorb no heal no nothin). The jedi raises his hand and creates a 180* barrier infront of him where any dark energy is sent back in the direction of the caster. the more directly the jedi faces the sith, the more accurate the reflection is. also the more points on the skill the more accurate the reflection is (like what toms says) to make this power fair obviously even when maxed and perfectly facing the enemy the reflection is not always 100% accurate and probably not as powerful. i will give a stupid model to demonstrate how in "force terms" it could be fair. just say full force pool = 5. and lightning = 1 per sec, and absorb = 1.5 or 2 per sec. this way it is not possible for reflect to outshine lightning. also using it over absorb means that the jedi uses force at the expense of gaining it i agree on toms thoughts that reflect should be timed to reflect acurracy, however, with the force usage on it being 25% higher than lightning, i can't see how someone could just run around with it on i also think that reflect can break grip but not return it, and can only block drain, not reflect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormtrooper X Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Originally posted by Solo4114 For the moment, I don't think this will be that big of a deal in MP combat. There are a number of variables that can come into play which will offset this being an uber-power, or just an upgrade to force-lightning. These factors include: - initial force cost - rate at which it drains the users mana pool - rate at which it drains the target's health - corresponding rate at which it INCREASES the user's own health - whether the power can be used at will, or whether it is like lightside's healing power (IE: only useable when you're damaged). - range and breadth of the power itself. If drain costs a ton, or drains slowly from your target, or uses up mana QUICKLY from your pool, or gives you little by way of health, or has a short range and a narrow field of fire (unlike lightning), it can be balanced. Personally, I suspect that drain will be the dark side's offensive answer to "heal", and I think this will be a good thing. When playing as a darksider, one of the MAJOR disadvantages in JO is that you have no ability to heal yourself through the force, only through medpacks and bacta. Sure, you could remove an opponent's ability to heal themselves too, by draining them dry, but even so, that didn't really feel, well, nasty enough for me or balanced enough. Arguably, lightside was more powerful in JO. Most of the darkside powers could be cancelled by having a strong absorb backed up with a strong heal, and there was no need to spend points on protect or mindtrick or whatever the other force powers were. I know I almost exclusively used absorb and heal. By contrast, darksiders NEEDED to have drain in order to quickly replenish their mana pool, and had have at least one, if not two strong offensive powers (grip, lightning, rage). Having force drain function like force heal (only requiring you to have an enemy target) is both nasty enough to make it a darkside power, and useful enough that it keeps things balanced in terms of light vs. dark. So, assuming they give it roughly the same healing abilities as heal (and they really should have BOTH heal and drain operate gradually, as opposed to JO's method of recovering one big chunk of health at once), and not allowing it to be used when you have full health will help keep the powers distinct as well as keep the two sides of the force well balanced. Finally, so long as both heal and drain restore/drain health at a reasonable (IE: not super-fast) rate, there shouldn't be a problem. To me, I think that both powers should be MUCH slower than their JO counterparts. You shouldn't be able to heal instantly, and you shouldn't be able to drain an opponent dry in 2 seconds. We need to know EXACTLY how the force powers work, aside from just a general sense of their overall function in the game before we start claiming imbalances. I'll admit, I'm not encouraged about some aspects of the game, based on interviews and such (IE: the lightsabre combat sounds like it'll be a whole lot of flash, but fundamentally unchanged in terms of damage/strategy from the last game), but bear in mind, this game is supposedly more mod-friendly. We just need to wait and see. This, however, is a PRIME reason why LEC should release a demo. In fact, anyone want to start a demo petition and send it off to LEC? Raven's already said it's up to them to decide whether one gets released or not, so maybe we should try prevailing upon them to give us a demo BEFORE the game is released? I totally agree. LEC or Raven (probably LEC) gave the PC Gaming World Mag we have here in England a demo. We COULD definately use that as a reason for getting a demo. I think that a demo would be excellent, and a quick multiplayer one too with one map or something and 4 characters but the FULL pool of force powers and SOME weapons to give us an idea. We could then decide the answer to this problem. If it IS a problem. But by the looks of it we have a 75 - 25 chance that raven won't balance the force sides. I don't like the idea of not having Zabrak Male or Rodian Female or Twi'lek Male but we can leave this to the modders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 i actually hope this new drain goes to mp aswell are you sure its for sp only? i like this new idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverhoodian Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I dunno, Rockstar. It's just speculation on my part. Personally, I don't think MP for JA will be that different from MP JO. They'll probably just tweak a few Force powers in order to make it a bit more equal and will add the attacks and defenses for the double bladed/dual sabers. Of course, the new game modes will be a big change. (can't wait to try the co-op mode;) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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