lukeskywalker1 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 of course i read what you say i quote it dont i? No i have witnessed (im guessing you mean seen God) God. Its an example. you know that the guy killed someone, but they said he was innocent (but he wasnt) does that mean he didnt kill anyone? no. You saw him do it. You said christians were ignorant cause they dont change there mind when other say its not true... or prove it wrong. But the guy killed someone, you know he did, and yet the court says they have enough proof to let the guy go.... you dont change your mind just because the court said he was innocent do you? Hope that clears it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 you know that the guy killed someone, but they said he was innocent (but he wasnt) does that mean he didnt kill anyone? no. You saw him do it. You said christians were ignorant cause they dont change there mind when other say its not true... or prove it wrong. But the guy killed someone, you know he did, and yet the court says they have enough proof to let the guy go.... you dont change your mind just because the court said he was innocent do you? Hope that clears it up. But you base my unwillingness to change my mind implicitly on my witnessing the murder, i.e. I have proof (if only for myself). So it is nothing like Christianity for which you have no proof. Your comparison is flawed. I havn't said Christians are ignorant because they don't change their mind when others say it's not true; I say Christians are deliberalety keeping themselves ignorant, sometimes through denial and/or distortion of facts and speculations against their religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrackan Solo Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by InsaneSith i personally find it humorous that people think that when they die they continue to live in another plane of existence, instead of rotting in the ground. but still even if there was a life after death i think that would be terribly boring after a while. Its called faith and the hope for something more. You have no proof thay there isn't life after death. So why do you find it humorous? I find it sad that people dont believe in any "life after death". And if there is life after death then I'm sure it wouldnt be boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawBag™ Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 But if theres life after death, is there life after that life???!!! Bah, all too spiritual and philosophical for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 No, if you check youir bible, it says your in heaven for eternity. I dont c how anyone would go insane, i mean, your not going to be alone, and its not like you stand around and do nothing all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 I dont c how anyone would go insane, i mean, your not going to be alone, and its not like you stand around and do nothing all day. Am I to assume then that you've never experienced anything at such length or for so many times that it's become tedious for you? I'll take a chance and say that you have, so imagine how many experiences will have become tedious to you after 1,000 years....After 1,000,000 years....After 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years. Granted, there are many experiences to be had, but they will be exhausted at one point and relived so many times that they will become frustratingly unbearable in your evergrowing ability to predict them further and further ahead, leading to a state of comatose or raving madness or incoherent babble of the mind. One shouldn't just adhere to the dogmatic statement of eternal bliss without thinking it through. Additionally, one should consider the perfectly rational and logic reason to why we are not immortal by nature instead of making up some utopian afterlife out of fear of death. Accept your mortality, ladies and gentlemen....Your children are your legacy; concentrate on them instead of your selfpity. Exploration to enlightenment is the way ahead, not refuging to ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrackan Solo Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by Jubatus Am I to assume then that you've never experienced anything at such length or for so many times that it's become tedious for you? I'll take a chance and say that you have, so imagine how many experiences will have become tedious to you after 1,000 years....After 1,000,000 years....After 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years. Granted, there are many experiences to be had, but they will be exhausted at one point and relived so many times that they will become frustratingly unbearable in your evergrowing ability to predict them further and further ahead, leading to a state of comatose or raving madness or incoherent babble of the mind. One shouldn't just adhere to the dogmatic statement of eternal bliss without thinking it through. Additionally, one should consider the perfectly rational and logic reason to why we are not immortal by nature instead of making up some utopian afterlife out of fear of death. Accept your mortality, ladies and gentlemen....Your children are your legacy; concentrate on them instead of your selfpity. Exploration to enlightenment is the way ahead, not refuging to ignorance. In heaven your not going to count years, your going to be overfilled with joy and a permanent "high" that it wont matter. But...if you go to hell then it WILL seem like eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 I think the general misguided attitude is part of the problem with the whole "Political Correctness" movement that seems to have had such a big splash in America in the last few years or so... Basically the assumption is made that whatever the "majority" is seen to accept is free for slander, bad jokes, etc. It's assumed that making fun of minority groups is bad and wrong, and to "make up for it" they turn their attention towards "majority" type stuff. Now don't get me wrong, being non-judgemental about many cultural or ethnic stuff is probably a good idea in polite society, but I frankly think its a double-standard. For example, the majority in the US right now is at least nominally Christian, but that may not always be so. Likewise, "white" is considered the largest racial group in the US, but that is rapidly diminishing in favor of "hispanic." Some stats say that by 2050, hispanics will be the largest racial group in the US. Does that mean that hispanic jokes will suddenly become acceptable? Somehow I doubt it. Another pet peeve is mine is when people call women a "minority." Yet I keep hearing over and over again that women outnumber men by 1% (not sure if that's just in the US or everywhere). Just being part of a group doesn't pre-destine you to anything that I can see. If you want to take pride in your origins, that's fine, but I don't expect a person to treat me any differently because of where my ancestors were born or what color my skin is. Let's think about an example of "cultural diversity" and see what the problems might be.... BET. There is a channel on cable called "Black Entertainment Television." Okay, no problem right? It's just a channel with programming Black people might like. Seems harmless right? But wait.. is that saying that being black means you are only entertained by certain things (different things than white, or yellow, etc?)? Frankly I've heard plenty of black people complain about the bad programming on BET. And what would people say if there was a channel called "WET" ("White Entertainment Television)? That is why I think we should not pre-judge a person based soley on their group affiliation, but instead on their words and actions. Give them the benefit of the doubt. I would want them to treat me the same way, so why would I attack them for no reason? I have been called many nasty names by people online, who never met me, and don't know who I am or what I believe. There is a lot (sadly) of small minded, bigotted, stupid, or just flat out mean people on the internet, or folks who simply "don't care" and hide behind the anonyimity the medium grants them. I don't mind a little good natured humor or teasing now and then, but a lot of it is just uncalled for. As to the religious issue, I don't judge anyone professing Christianity out of hand, because, as a student of religion, I know that even though Christianity is the world's largest religion, there are (nearly) an equal number of Muslims and Atheists/Agnostics in the world. I also know that there are over 30,000 denominations of Christianity, covering a spectrum of beliefs. Christians come from all social classes, sexual orientations, races, nationalities, ages, genders, etc. So how can a person judge them based solely on a religious category? Answer: you can't. Non-Christians as well, can't be easily categorized, since most religions have their various sects, off-shoots, denominations, philosophies, etc. (people have forgotten that a lot with regard to Islam after 9/11 for example). Atheist and Agnostics run a vast spectrum of beliefs and attitudes as well. Some of the debates and challenges on here sound threatening at first, but they are good because they can help smooth over misunderstandings and allow people to confront the fact that we are not a bunch of living stereotypes and automatons. Sadly, there will always people people out there, that instead of listening to what people have to say and honestly thinking about it, would rather just spout off and ignore, while waiting for their turn to slam strawmen to make themselves look good. ; p I think that civil discussion IS possible, and most of the time on these forums I think people do try. You just have to keep an eye out for the folks who don't follow the rules of politeness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Originally posted by Thrackan Solo In heaven your not going to count years, your going to be overfilled with joy and a permanent "high" that it wont matter. So your mind will remain stagnant in how it perceives things for all eternity, and this will be done by God "drugging" you. Sounds like God's the biggest pusher of them all. Originally posted by Thrackan Solo But...if you go to hell then it WILL seem like eternity. No doubt, and you will go utterly insane just like in Heaven. Unless of course Satan too keeps your mind stagnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homuncul Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I guess this whole debate is pointless. I see everything here repeats itself as in philosophy thread. It's like neither christians nor agnostics nor realists can convince each other of anything. As Jub would love to say: everything that is left here is to satisfy your own ego by not letting go. And as I notice most of the chat here is not about "ok to bash christianity" but an old world view debate. This thread should have been a total psychology thread from the beginning and the matters that should have been followed were to be: why we try to satisfy our egoes by bashing christians and not why bashing christianity is justifyed or not justifyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Originally posted by Thrackan Solo In heaven your not going to count years, your going to be overfilled with joy and a permanent "high" that it wont matter. But...if you go to hell then it WILL seem like eternity. well if i have weed that'd be no problem. i'd do eternity if i had weed. oh and muslims outnumber christians. it's just not in any of your W.A.S.P media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wilson Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 i am a christian, yet i have no faith. But i have alot of respect for those who do. Why is it ok to bash christainty? it is as ok to 'bash' someone for there religion as it is to 'bash' some one for there colour or there nationality. It is unexcetable. To use your faith in an arguement isnt right either. You shouldnt force your opinion or your religion on some one, or try and make them see your way. I also feel that just beacause you feel differently to someones religes(sp) belifes or teachings you can insult there faith or there God. It would be like, for a extreme example, a white man, bob, killing a black man,Bob2, for the reason that Bob2 is black and Bob feels blacks are wrong ((Names were never mystrong point, also i hope this post does not offend anyone, its just an example;))). Its pointless and stupid. I just hope everyone thinks about this and trys and stop the bashing of christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 but i would go insane i mean we'd eventually run out of things to do there. I doubt it. Remember, being perfect means having no needs. I mena, theres nothing wrong with you. Maybe you cant get bored. I know catholics who would argue that catholism is the christian faith and that all other denominations are false. I don't see a difference in your claim or theirs.... the root word of "christian" is "christ." Both cults, yours and catholicism, acknowledge christ as a messiah/savior. Both cults center around the teachings of this alleged messiah. Say what you will.... but I say you are religiocentric. Christian, means christ like.. or being like christ. How are they being like christ? Anyways, the rules for christianity have been set, no doubts there. No one can say they havnt, i mean... over half the New Testament is teaching how to run a church, how to be a christian. Do catholics follow any of that? acknowledge christ as a messiah/savior. As for that, i explained it. You can call anything christ, does it mean it is christ? I can cal my PC skinwalker, does it mean that your my pc now? of course not. So the idea of Satan being a horned and tailed red fellow sitting on a throne overseeing Hell is just pure nonsense, yes? yeah im pretty sure it is. I mean, considering youve only read one book of the bible, you obviously cant base your entire opinion of the bible on one vision, can you? I cant see him being the way people describe him, because afterall, he was the highest ranking angel. I doubt God would make an angel look bad. Unless his apperance changed. Of course, i dont know what satan looks like. and would therefor not be grateful to God, who is not balanced. How is God imbalanced.. you mean no sin or something? On the same note, why is it with Christianity, like with practically all major religions, so, that all the big miracles and divine events happened many hundreds of years ago and none happen today? Heh, that question gets asked a lot. Maybe, since most of the world has lost its faith. Sure there are platny of christians out there, but how many are really truly trying to follow Christ's commands? Then what of all the images of the revelations presented to John? The Son of Man in all his fiery Sunlike grandeur, multiple-headed beasts, God surrounded by strange beastmen creatures, scorpion monsters? Must have just been some funky shroom trip if such concepts are pure nonsense, no? I didnt say that was fake, but remember it was a vision, it means something. Anyways, the bible doesnt say satan is red and has horns.. and all this other stuff. He could... but i guess it really doesnt matter. I know this much, he doesnt sit around ruling Hell though. Even the bible says he will be tourtured, just like everyone else there. Anyways, its supposed to be a vision of the future, so all of that stuff would be things john has never seen. Imagine, bringing ssomeone who died maybe 300 years ago to our time. I think he would be amazed. Just seeing things flying around would amaze him. Maybe John couldnt describe what he saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 yeah im pretty sure it is. I mean, considering youve only read one book of the bible, you obviously cant base your entire opinion of the bible on one vision, can you? I cant see him being the way people describe him, because afterall, he was the highest ranking angel. I doubt God would make an angel look bad. Unless his apperance changed. Of course, i dont know what satan looks like. Never said I believed he looked like that; I was using your argument against you with the revelations of John...Though for some reason you decided to split it up in 2 parts even though they were connected. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 How is God imbalanced.. you mean no sin or something? He created the world and life. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Heh, that question gets asked a lot. Maybe, since most of the world has lost its faith. Sure there are platny of christians out there, but how many are really truly trying to follow Christ's commands? Or perhaps people aren't as gullible in today's world? And you're absolutely right about a vast majority of socalled Christians being hypocrites, and many of them are so selfdeluded they don't even know they're hypocrites. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 I didnt say that was fake, but remember it was a vision, it means something. Anyways, the bible doesnt say satan is red and has horns.. and all this other stuff. He could... but i guess it really doesnt matter. I know this much, he doesnt sit around ruling Hell though. Even the bible says he will be tourtured, just like everyone else there. And he can't be tortured and be free enough to rule at the same time? He did a pretty good job at having time to tempt Jesus in the dessert. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Anyways, its supposed to be a vision of the future, so all of that stuff would be things john has never seen. Imagine, bringing ssomeone who died maybe 300 years ago to our time. I think he would be amazed. Just seeing things flying around would amaze him. Maybe John couldnt describe what he saw. There's nothing to say Armageddon hasn't already happened if you read Revelations close enough. As for John and what he could or could not understand of what he saw, it was merely a counterargument for that irrelevant argument about the perception of Satan you seemed to suddenly grabbed out of thin air. ----- Now, this argument about the truth of Christianity has relevance to the original topic of this thread, but it's not the topic, as pointed out in a few posts above this. I've indulged you enough in your weakbased arguments, and will therefor simply refer you to my oppinions stated in my original answer to this topic and let you know that you can't argue anything to change them. As admitted in an earlier post of mine, Christianity is merely a symptom of a disease, so it is indeed not Christianity in itself I bash, but the mentality behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Christian, means christ like.. or being like christ. How are they being like christ? Anyways, the rules for christianity have been set, no doubts there. No one can say they havnt, i mean... over half the New Testament is teaching how to run a church, how to be a christian. Do catholics follow any of that? I think it's all superstitious poppycock, but here's what catholics have to say about the subject: Catholicism is the oldest Christian religion in the world. With over one billion people, the Catholic religion remains a strong force despite opposition. Catholicism is over 2,000 years old. Through the years, the religion must be more than a human organization, but a holy one. Catholicism is the only Christian religion that started during Christ's time. All other Christian religions stemmed from it. The name "the catholic church" first started in the year 107 when Ignatius of Antioch used the title to describe Jesus' church. The term was old even then so it was probably known in the apostle's time. Catholicism has four main qualities. They are one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. One - Jesus designed only one church with one set of doctrines. These doctrines are often examined, but their true meaning always stays in tact. Jesus has one body so He only has one Church. Holy - Jesus has made the church holy. No, not all the members act holy, but the church itself remains holy. Catholic - The word Catholic means universal. Jesus told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of everyone. The Catholic religion is found all over the world. Apostolic - Catholicism is apostolic because Jesus appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church. Successors were the future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops. Since the first century, there has been an unbroken chain of bishops that pass down the traditions and Scriptures. You want a so-called christian group to be afraid of, try the cult that calls itself The Potter's House Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 As for that, i explained it. You can call anything christ, does it mean it is christ? I can cal my PC skinwalker, does it mean that your my pc now? of course not. Why doesn't that apply to your own cult? What gives your own cult validity while excluding older cults like catholocism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 I think it's all superstitious poppycock, but here's what catholics have to say about the subject: What?? I said the apostles, christ, and other godly men wrote down how the church should be ran. Yeah, catholics are probably in the bible, just not called that. Paul, and possibly a few others wrote a few times that false prophets had entered the churches. So if you have a person teaching false things, some people will believe it, and others will stick with the original, thats how i think different denominations were formed. Another thing, how can the catholic church be over 2000 years old, when Christ was born 2006 years ago? The bible doesnt teach any of what they practice, its there own rules. I could care less what they call it. Alright, lets look at it from a christian point of view here, the world sees catholics as the main group of christianity, even if it isnt christianity. On judgement day, do you think God will care what its called? You want a so-called christian group to be afraid of, try the cult that calls itself The Potter's House Afraid? Where do you get that idea, if i were afraid, do you think i would post this stuff? Ive broken Roman Catholic law, the penalty is death. Why doesn't that apply to your own cult? What gives your own cult validity while excluding older cults like catholocism? A cult, is a group that diseaves people, how is my 'cult' decieving anyone. Dude, you dont even know a thing about me, or my so called cult. Do you even know if i go to church? Ok i do, i was there an hour ago, but still... Alright... 1 we actually follow God's law, in other words, the bible. 2 we dont set up our own laws. 3 we dont kill you if you disagree with us. 4 we dont try to set up a big show to impress the followers, EX: catholic costumes. 5 We dont make up a whole load of crap. 6 The man in charge of our church doesnt declare that he is God. Catholicism is the oldest Christian religion in the world. With over one billion people, the Catholic religion remains a strong force despite opposition. Catholicism is over 2,000 years old. Through the years, the religion must be more than a human organization, but a holy one. Catholicism is the only Christian religion that started during Christ's time. All other Christian religions stemmed from it. The name "the catholic church" first started in the year 107 when Ignatius of Antioch used the title to describe Jesus' church. The term was old even then so it was probably known in the apostle's time. Catholicism has four main qualities. They are one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. One - Jesus designed only one church with one set of doctrines. These doctrines are often examined, but their true meaning always stays in tact. Jesus has one body so He only has one Church. Holy - Jesus has made the church holy. No, not all the members act holy, but the church itself remains holy. Catholic - The word Catholic means universal. Jesus told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of everyone. The Catholic religion is found all over the world. Apostolic - Catholicism is apostolic because Jesus appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church. Successors were the future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops. Since the first century, there has been an unbroken chain of bishops that pass down the traditions and Scriptures. Look, this is an example of the crap im talking about, that doesnt counter, or prove me wrong in 1 way. If anything it proves me even more right. Over 2000 years... man... Under Roman Catholic law, they have the right, to kill Christ, Paul, Peter, and everyone of the Apostles, and billions of people throughout history. I think... that may just prove my point. If you want to know why, its because Christ said, you WILL go to heaven, as long as you do what your supposed to, EX: accepting him, repenting..... the list goes on.... Roman Catholic law says, if you have assurance that you will go to heaven just like christ said you do, then you should die. What kind of church would make a law that says there founder should die???? And you still call it christianity. Just doesnt seem very christ like to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 A cult, is a group that diseaves deceives people... Cults like to trick their followers to believe that everthing else is a cult... usually with outright fabricated definitions. Beware the Kool-Aid. Cult: Definition: _ 1. (n) _an interest followed with exaggerated zeal; "he always follows the latest fads"; "it was all the rage that season" 2. (n) _a system of religious beliefs and rituals 3. (n) _adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices Found at HyperDictionary, but check Webster's College Dictionary and you'll find a very similar definition. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Alright... 1 we actually follow God's law, in other words, the bible. A 2000+ year old document that has no verifiable sources. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 2 we dont set up our own laws. Perhaps... but your cult definately sets up its own rules about other cults. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 3 we dont kill you if you disagree with us. Perhaps not yet. Perhaps not ever. Time will tell. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 4 we dont try to set up a big show to impress the followers, EX: catholic costumes. Good. I'm against those cults that take their show on the road... witnessing to needy peasants by offering food/shelter/clothing in exchange for devotion to the cult in question. They call it "missionary" work... I call it exploitation and extortion. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 5 We dont make up a whole load of crap. See... I thought your cult subscribed to "creation," "Noah's Flood," "imaculate conception," etc. I'm glad to hear that crap isn't a part of your indoctrination. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 6 The man in charge of our church doesnt declare that he is God. But I bet he/she has had god speak to him/her. Or vice versa. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 And you still call it christianity... Just doesnt seem very christ like to me. It's not up to you to decide. Catholics choose to define their religion in the same manner that you choose to define yours. From my outside perspective, it is ironic that one cult points the finger at another to denounce it's validity! Ha! I disagree with both denominations of christianity and reluctantly offer my opinions here in the form of the fairly insensitive words above. I'm not usually this vocal of my intolerance to religion/cult activity and have very good relationships with many friends and family of many religions. In fact, I find their religions largely fascinating. I so aggressively point out the fallicies of your argument because I despise bigotry and ethnocentrism even more. Your view of other religions is bigoted and ethnocentric. It, no doubt, isn't your fault but rather that of whomever forced you to be indoctrinated in the cult itself. And, just to be sure, I don't "call it christianity," the majority of the rest of the world does. Despite the prejudices and misconceptions you obviously have about Catholism (as well as the apparent hatred), it is regarded as the christian faith by most of the world. It's poppycock too, but its christian poppycock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 there have been some baptists and protestants here that have killed people because the people they killed didn't believe what they believed. and those militias in montana are baptist and protestant. just so you guys know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 You assume too much skinwalker. No one in my church even talks about this, its based from well known facts, and my own observations. I do not hate catholics, people have mentioned crimes committed by christianity, in just about every thread about religion. Im saying, it was catholics, ive proven, they cant be christians, there bibles, and mine say you have to accept christ to be a christian. If you havnt, you arent a christian. It has to be of your own choice. No one has forced me to do anything (if they did, why am i talking to you about it?) Cults like to trick their followers to believe that everthing else is a cult... usually with outright fabricated definitions. Beware the Kool-Aid. Kool-Aid? Umm, anyways, no one in my church has told me anything about this. 1. (n) _an interest followed with exaggerated zeal; "he always follows the latest fads"; "it was all the rage that season" 2. (n) _a system of religious beliefs and rituals 3. (n) _adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices And thats christianity? I believe christ said that your supposed to pray different things, not keep the same prayer. Same beliefs, but we dont do the same thing. Youve assumed a lot, when you dont know a thing about me or my church. Perhaps... but your cult definately sets up its own rules about other cults. What rules, i stated what they do, compared it with what Christ and his followers said, and you can see a huge difference. I looked this up in books, and put 2 and 2 together and found out there own rules contradict there entire system. Its a fact, they say you dont have assurence of Heaven, its a fact Christ said you do. Its a fact, there law says you are damned as a heretic if you say that. See... I thought your cult subscribed to "creation," "Noah's Flood," "imaculate conception," etc. I'm glad to hear that crap isn't a part of your indoctrination. lol, you know Noah's Flood is said to have affected that carbon dating method you guys have. Of course i believe in that (remember, if its in the bible, i believe it) what is imaculate conception???? Good. I'm against those cults that take their show on the road... witnessing to needy peasants by offering food/shelter/clothing in exchange for devotion to the cult in question. They call it "missionary" work... I call it exploitation and extortion. Ah, well we do both, sort of... with out the exchange part. We pray, thank God for the food (or whatever) Anyways, i thought missionarys came to the people, to TEACH them, i havnt heard of anything of what your talking about. Ill get back to you later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Man, I wanted to let this thread die... but Pat Robinson gets under my skin and (walks?) is a good reason to bash christianity. With leaders like Pat, christianity doesn't need any enemies. Pat Robinson recently launched a "call for prayer" as a result of some recent Supreme Court decisions. He wants certain justices to resign and he wants god to convince them with your help! LOL. Pat said: "Would you join with me and many others in crying out to our Lord to change the Court?" He continued with a few fallicies: Robertson said: "In 1962, they ruled prayer out of the public schools." Not so. Students remain free to pray in schools. What was ruled out was government-mandated, teacher-led prayer. Robertson said: "In 1963, they ruled the Bible out of public schools." Not so. The Bible is studied as literature in many schools. What was ruled out was government-mandated Bible preaching. Robertson said: That it is now "illegal for little elementary school children to give thanks over their milk and cookies at snack time." Not so. Little school children may still pray over lunch. What was recognized as illegal was state-mandated, teacher-led prayers. Robertson said: "Now, the Supreme Court has declared a constitutional right to consensual sodomy and, by the language in its decision, has opened the door to homosexual marriages, bigamy, legalized prostitution, and even incest." Not so. No door has been opened to bigamy, legalized prostitution, or incest. Quite the opposite--the Supreme Court confirmed the constitutional right to privacy behind closed doors. Robertson said: "The framers of our Constitution never intended anything like this to take place in our land." Not so. James Madison, the "Father of the Constitution," had many of these ideas in mind. Other framers had other ideas, such as the continuation of slavery, the continued disenfranchisement of those without property, and the continued denial of rights to women. Robertson said: "No culture has ever endured which has turned openly to homosexuality." Not so. The implication that turning openly to homosexuality destroys cultures is false. No culture has ever endured, as all cultures die eventually. But there's certainly no evidence that acceptance of homosexuality ever caused the downfall of any culture. Clearly, this deluded, self-righteous, and bigoted individual is reason to bash christianity. The pope is running a close second in his recent support of the Vatican document (12 pages long) that is entitled “Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons.” It encourages lawmakers and religious leaders alike to oppose extending marriage rights to same-sex couples. So there you have it.... two very good reasons to bash christianity. And LukeS.... don't even bother with the anti-catholic "they're not christian" BS.... you and your particular denomination are the only ones that subscribe to that propaganda. And that's just what it is... propaganda designed to ensure the survival of the cult. The Moonies, Jehovah's Witnesses, Heaven's Gaters, Potter's House, and the Scientologists have been doing the same thing forever. Scientologists? Did I say scientologists? No... you keep those lawyers away... I'm sorry... I ..... aaahhhhggg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Why is it OK to bash Nazism? Good. I'm against those cults that take their show on the road... witnessing to needy peasants by offering food/shelter/clothing in exchange for devotion to the cult in question. They call it "missionary" work... I call it exploitation and extortion. Hear! Hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joetheeskimo Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by InsaneSith there have been some baptists and protestants here that have killed people because the people they killed didn't believe what they believed. and those militias in montana are baptist and protestant. just so you guys know. If that's true, they are far from being baptsists/protestants. A true Christian never kills any one, except in self-defense. There are some who call themselves "Christians", and then torture and kill other people until the believe in Christ. WTF?! That's more like Satanity, not Christianity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Ive said it before, ill say it again, my denomination hasnt said anything to me about catholics. I used to think they were christians, till one day in one of these threads i met one, and he told me stuff, i realised it was less and less christian. Dude, say what you want, but even what you posted has even helped me prove they arent christians. Another thing, all the denominations you listed were not christian either. So you think ive sat here and made up a whole load of crap about catholics, lies what ever.... READ YOUR BIBLE! there cheap, maybe 5 dollars, you know the best selling book of all time! READ AND COMPARE!!! SkinWalker, I dont think you really know or understand christianity, or what it is! Your not born into it. You dont just walk into a christian church, and then your a christian. Your parents, or your brothers or sisters can be a christian, but that doesnt mean you are. Its not what you think, far from it. To be christian you need a personall relationship with Jesus. Simply going to church on sunday doesnt mean a thing. The truth is, most denominations have the same bible. If you read in it, your not a christian untill you accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you must repent your sins. Everything he said (i havnt even heard of the guy, i dont think) can very easily be misinterpreted. What are you mad about? It has no effect on you. Yes we are allowed to pray, read our bibles, and its against the law to stop us. He was talking about what you said. Just because the teacher prays, does the student have to say amen? You know he/she doesnt. SkinWalker, have you met a true christian? How many true christians have bashed people? Heh, they tell it like it is. People hate that, sounds like this patterson guy talks the truth. Dude, you dont know what denomination im in. Im in the nazarine denomination (i was born into a methodose church, judging by how the world perceives things, because my grandparents went to a methodose church) Maybe you should research the denomination (nazarine) or perhaps you already know about it. Another thing, i wasnt even in a denomination, or in a church the first 3 years i was a christian. Dude, ask yourself, why am i even bothering to talk to you. You say i should be bashed because i believe in something. You say im in a cult for proving crimes against christianity false, and showing where the blame truly lies. You dont know me, and yet you pass judgement. Tonight im ganna go blow up a car in the name of skinwalker (for the example, no im not ganna do that) then im ganna blow up building, kill hundreds of people in your name. Are you to blame? No. If anyone else does something in your name, are they to blame for my actions? No. By saying you can bash someone for they believe in shows how self centered you really are, and you say i hate, and im prejeduce? Yet for some reason, God is still willing to forgive you, if youll let him. Ask any christian, when is it too late for God to accept you? Never, unless you have comitted the one unfogivable sin (wont get into that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 How many true christians have bashed people? Heh, they tell it like it is. People hate that, sounds like this patterson guy talks the truth. How many times have I heard people say, both online and off, words along the lines of "I'm not insulting you, I'm telling it how it is!" Sorry, but if I'm a homosexual and a christian comes up to me and tells me I'm a god hating sinner who deserves to burn in hell, and then turns around and says "I'm not bashing him, I'm just telling it how it is!"... I'd be pretty pissed. Who's to say all the christians who get insulted when people bash their religion have a right to? Perhaps Skinwalker, 'Jais, and others are simply "telling it like it is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Hey... "dude," I'm just tellin' it like it is. The only real opinion that I have about the whole thing is that there probably isn't a god. I used to subscribe to all that christian hocus pocus.... then I started thinking for myself. A combination of education and experience tells me that my opinion about god is the most likely. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Another thing, all the denominations you listed were not christian either. I never implied that they were. I only stated that they are just as valid as christianity. Actually, Budism seems more valid, though I think its a superstition as well. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 READ YOUR BIBLE! there cheap, maybe 5 dollars, you know the best selling book of all time! READ AND COMPARE!!! Actually, I've probably logged more hours in that book than you. I only say that because I'm a bit older and read it from cover to cover in 1991. I'm not worried about the price... threw mine in the garbage years ago. I had already read it. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 SkinWalker, I dont think you really know or understand christianity, or what it is! And I don't think you understand christianity. Okay.. so I've got two opinions . Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 To be christian you need a personall relationship with Jesus. Then there are no christians. It is impossible to have a personal relationship with someone who no longer exists if he did at all. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Everything he said (i havnt even heard of the guy, i dont think) can very easily be misinterpreted. What are you mad about? It has no effect on you. You're kidding, right? I'm not actually mad or even angry, though I suppose it can be difficult to discern over the internet. I am concerned, however, that such a well known leader of the so-called "religious right" can perhaps influance so many people with his biggoted views. And those comments that he made were not at all open to much interpretation. They were pretty clear. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Just because he teacher prays, does the student have to say amen? I went to a small high school in West Texas... it was illegal to make kids pray. We said the Lord's Prayer at EVERY assembly, regardless of your denomination or religion. If you didn't, you were punished. Period. It was wrong. I haven't forgotten the look on the face of my Native friend when I asked if he believed in the lord's prayer... He was of a traditional Native family... of course he didn't. But he was forced to. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 SkinWalker, have you met a true christian? How many true christians have bashed people? There are no true christians if they never bash people. Including you. You have bashed the catholic, original christians, denomination time and again, then deny that it is bashing. But I was once as "true" a christian as you. I grew up. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Heh, they tell it like it is. People hate that, sounds like this patterson guy talks the truth. You're right... people do hate that. I've been telling it like it is for nearly a year now.... Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Dude, you dont know what denomination im in. It's the only correct one I'm sure. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 You say im in a cult for proving crimes against christianity false, and showing where the blame truly lies. Actually, I say you are part of a cult based upon the definition that Webster's College Dictionary provides. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 By saying you can bash someone for they believe in shows how self centered you really are, and you say i hate, and im prejeduce? By believing in the biggoted views that so-called christians of the world spout from their mouths... yeah, they're fair game for bashing. But as a group/cult, not individuals... I wouldn't dare insult you personally... it is your beliefs that I find disagreeable. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Yet for some reason, God is still willing to forgive you, if youll let him. Ask any christian, when is it too late for God to accept you? What god? See... there you go. Religiocentric views... the hindu gods are just as valid as the christian gods. The greek gods are just as valid. In fact, if there can exist one God, then that proves that it is possible for an omnipotent being to exist. If that's possible, then it is possible for multiple ominipotent beings to exist. So, therefore, the polytheist view is more valid than the monotheist one of the christian religion. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Never, unless you have comitted the one unfogivable sin (wont get into that) Oh... blasphemy of the holy spirit... Yeah... right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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