The Count Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Sorry if this offends however I was thinking how many people would rather the DF MOD be ported over to Jedi Academy, although the improved Lightsabre combat won't help it in the slightest, overall it maybe better for the MOD if it did go with the newer game, I vote yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 Voting no defies logic entirely. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic_Al`s DF Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 If there are no technical advantages I vote no because there's no Mac version of Jedi Academy even announced yet, so not doing it for JO would risk delaying or preventing the mod's availability on the Mac. If the mod is completed for JO it will likely get ported to JA anyway, but the reverse is less likely. Therefore completing it for JO will ensure its ultimate playability for the maximum number of fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cheat Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 i vote no because i dont see why, maybe when it is done it can be ported over but it was started on JO and should be completed for JO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 I vote no because DFMod should be released for JO and ported to JA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravensroke Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 It all depends on how good JA is at mod support, if Lucasarts releases the source for JO SP, then I think its the better bet if they don't do the same for JA. On the other hand, if they never release an SDK for JO SP, and JA has better SP mod support, then I would think that JA is the better bet. Its still a bit early to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverhoodian Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Well, I'm not sure. I don't know if the potential improvements of JA are good enough to garner a switch to it. The mod won't have saber action (unless you cheat;) ) and the weapons have been changed and won't look or act like JO's or JA's. JA, from what I gather, seems to focus more on saber combat and force powers. Dark Forces never had those elements. Besides, the team has worked so long for it on JO that they might as well finish it for JO. I have no problems with them porting it to JA afterwards, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 JA SP support for mods is supposed to be expanded greatly. Right now the team is trying to figure out where to start with scripting and AI, where as JA already has AI and ICARUS II right in MP! Please, tell me, what is the point of recoding scripting and AI for JO MP, resulting in a really poor quality mod, when you could just switch to JA? It's not like anyone in the community is going to keep playing JO or modding for it when JA comes out, there's really no point. JO was like a test run, and JA is more like the final product. Also, a Mac version of JO wasn't announced until months after the game was released, I see no reason why JA should be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fracman Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by Emon [...]resulting in a really poor quality mod, when you could just switch to JA?[...] DFMOD will not be that much better because of using JA and not much worse using JO. Simply different. And it is not like that we just move a switch and "voila, now DFMOD runs in JA". We don't know yet anything about JA. Icarus II? Fine! But who knows how it works except Raven, eh!? We simply don't want to wait (and waste time) until JA is released so we continue working with JO. Originally posted by Emon [...]JO was like a test run, and JA is more like the final product.[...] Therefore Q3 was a test run for Q3A and JK was a test run for MotS? Hahaha When JO was released, it was its own final version! Certainly there is always something to improve If Raven decided to reuse it and to improve it for JA, good for us. But they could have done something completely different and then we couldn't even think of "switching" the MOD to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cheat Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 yeah they could have used one of these new engines to get better graphics like the ut2003 engine or something but it probably doesnt take as long to make the game when they are using the same engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclaimer Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Yes push it back to Jedi Academy.No one will probley play Outcast for a long time because every one will be with Academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Linux Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by Emon JA SP support for mods is supposed to be expanded greatly. Right now the team is trying to figure out where to start with scripting and AI, where as JA already has AI and ICARUS II right in MP! Please, tell me, what is the point of recoding scripting and AI for JO MP, resulting in a really poor quality mod, when you could just switch to JA? It's not like anyone in the community is going to keep playing JO or modding for it when JA comes out, there's really no point. JO was like a test run, and JA is more like the final product. Also, a Mac version of JO wasn't announced until months after the game was released, I see no reason why JA should be different. Personally I hope everything Emon is saying comes exactly true and JA makes modding much simpler for us. The coding/scripting issue is really critical to our success/failure and if JA can move us along in the right direction then we'll definately make the cut over to that product. We won't be losing any of our work so far since we have been wise about which assets we make now and which ones we don't. More updates as I learn more about JA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HapSlash Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 I for one really don't have a lot of interest in Jedi Academy. It looks like it's based off of one of JO's greatest mistakes. I don't see a lot of promise in a new game based around a fighting system that Raven improved by continually making it worse. At this point I'm not really swayed into buying JA. If it was switched over right now, I probably wouldn't play the mod. So, I would vote no. If it really did help in making the mod better I'd say sure, but until it actually comes out with the support that people claim it will have, I'll simply consider it hearsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Of course JO is its own final version. My point is that JO was, in some people's eyes, a screwup, that was never fixed. A lot of people think that JA has fixed a lot of these issues. JA was started almost immediatly after JO was done, and after it was decided to make it a full game, LEC didn't really see a need to let Raven patch JO anymore. Also, I don't think you should stop working on the DF mod for JO just because a switch to JA would be better. All the media and resources can be ported without a problem. We just found out from Raven that models from JO can be plugged into JA, and it will convert them automatically! Even the coding, perhaps if discarded if a JA switch happens, won't be in vein, since I'm sure a lot of experience will be gained. One of the main reasons I have faith in Raven on JA is that I've spoken to James Monroe and Mike Gummelt, two of the main programmers for both games (Monroe being lead programmer), on many occasions. Both of them have told me they realize the problems in JO, and as much as they wanted to fix it, they never were able to because they were being held back by LEC (probably LEC thought JA would just replace JO). They also acknowledged the problems with SP editing, and Mike told me he wanted to externalize a lot more data and make it more like SoF2 (which has fantastic SP editing), but didn't have the time. With JA being built of the already completed JO, there's a high probability we won't have this trouble anymore. And in several JA interviews, it's been said that editing capabilities have been expanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fracman Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Thanks for the information Emon, sounds interesting! While playing JO, I did not notice any bugs except the worlds were still sterile, I'd like to see more life, dust, trash, misc stuff on the streets of Bespin I'm curious about JA but I'm also very patient, there is no hurry to decide anything about switching yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcountryman03 Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 I can't say i've ever bought a game strictly to play a mod, but if DF is released for JA. I just might. I my opinion, wait until JA is released and you can actually try out the new mod kit. If, it helps, go for it. If not, don't. Also after JA is released, Raven or LA might release an SDK for JO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fracman Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Yeah, this is basically our intention! Make a good MOD to let you buy JO or JA just because of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Blade Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Originally posted by Emon Voting no defies logic entirely. Well, not if you don't want to / can't afford to purchase JA when it comes out.... I'm somewhat leery of JA, mostly because it seems based upon JO's saber combat system. I didn't think it was too bad when it first came out, but I agree with Hap, the patches just made it worse. I know right now that I won't buy it for myself unless I get to play a demo or such before hand, or I know through reviews and articles that the system has improved. I've got too much I already want to buy and play to spend 30-50 dollars.... just so I can be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 The thing about patches is that Raven wanted to continue to patch to fix the problems, but LEC wouldn't let them. Perhaps partly because they saw no point since JA was being developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Blade Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Well, they never should've created a patch that made it worse in the first place.... I can half-way understand the view on halting further patches, but it's also bad customer service to stop fixing an existing product because you have a newer more expensive product coming down the road... That's kind of what Microsoft does.. and we all know how we feel about Microsoft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Raven didn't actually know about the critical problems in 1.03 at first, e.g. the backstab. They were going to fix it right away, but stupid LEC almost didn't let them. One guy at LEC really pushed for the patch and 1.04 happened, which although not perfect, is a godsend from 1.03 (on a side note, 1.04 is like perfect with server tweaks). Yeah, you can blame LEC for halting support. I dunno why. Maybe this will be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HapSlash Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 They should have just left the sabers as they originally were, none of the patches improved them in the slightest. Who knows, maybe JA might be worth it, but I can only base my opinion on what I can see, and so far what I've seen isn't very reassuring,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Did you ever play JO SP? The SP saber combat was amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HapSlash Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Yeah, but it's been a while,... lost the cd a number of months ago, and just recently found it back behind the desk. The saber fighting was good, but then again, I'm sure it's always more gratifying against an enemy who doesn't dodge very well,... But the fact that the saber fighting was good to start with made me wonder why they started patching it for multiplayer in the first place. I thought the game was fine the way it was. I just don't want to be coerced into buying another game where the patches released for it, end up restricting the game play to the point where I won't enjoy it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Blade Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Single player is fairly good, but the moves and stances seemed lacking at times. Could've used more/better moves. Playing JO multiplayer now gives me that "Nerf Bat" feeling in the middle of combat. It may have just been my experience, but after the patches, 90% of the people I played with began to use heavy stance... and the sabers seemed substantially weaker. I ran with medium stance, chasing after someone for a minute or two.. swinging at their back every chance I got... or when I tried to get the drop on someone who had a Disruptor, dropped down, did several strafing strikes.... and they managed to escape.... and the pings are usually under 100, so it's doubtful to be lag. But before the patch.. it was fine. The saber seemed a bit weak at first, but it was decent enough... Maybe now I'm having that same problem with JO as I did with JK (not all of my swings registering), but for me the patches didn't seem to make sabers better... just weaker so that people could make their duels last longer.... If they go along that method for "improving" the game for JA, I sure as heck don't want it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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