Marek Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 You know, I've wondered what it would be like when an adventure game developer would license the Half-Life 2 Source engine to create a graphic adventure. That's not a new thought. But lately modders have been talking about doing crazy things with Source, like making an RPG or race game. Wouldn't it be awesome if we could get a team together of amateur adventure game developers, modellers and level (read: set) designers? Making an interactive dialogue tree or an inventory should be relatively easy. Making a good interface would be an enormous challenge, but it's still possible for a mod team to do. Think of how cool it would be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragou Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I would like if someone made a real open source AG engine on top of an existing 3d-engine such as CrystalSpace or (originally commerical) ones like the Quake 2-engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpfinsa Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Anachronox did a good job of using the Quake 2 engine to make a decent turn-based RPG, so it can be done, although redoing the interface would definitely be the hardest part. Making another shooter would be easy to make, but modifying the interface so you can't blow up anything that moves would be a challenge. But Half Life already has a way of interacting with NPCs other than killing them, so part of the problem is already solved. But for an adventure, the weapons would have to be turned off. I'd figure you'd have to mod it to default to no weapons and turn the weapon changer off (if even not having a weapon is possible in HL2.) I guess more info is needed before going into those details. In order to make a decent typical adventure game, we'd have to see if HL 2 handles the following features in order to make an adventure game. * Finding an object, placing it on the map, and picking it up and putting it into an inventory. * Being able to give and recieve an item to and from a NPC. * Combining 2 items would be cool, but I doubt HL2 supports something like that. (Although, Silent Hill 2 does.) * Ending a level by giving someone a particular item or by saying something. Typically, most FPS's levels end when reaching a certain point or killing a certain creature(s). Anything else? BTW, if your interested in HL2 Source, read up here: http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?go=source_mod_faq#eng_08 A lot of the basics are spelled out here. It's coded in C++, nothing too obscure. It's kind of neat the way they do the lip-syncing. The sky box feature is pretty unique, too. It supports MP3, which would make background music pretty easy to mod. It doesn't seem too complex to develop levels, simular to HL1's map editor program. Multiplayer features could really make for a unique adventure title. I agree with you, Marek. An amateur team with a lot of time, dedication, and talent might be able to use the HL2 SDK to create an awesome adventure title that can rival a lot of the professional games that are out there today. Jane Jensen, watch out! --BPF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingzjester Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I don't think weapons should be disabled in order to make an adventure game - the weapon system needs to be replaced in part or in whole with the objects that you may pick up. You equip the object and "shoot" it at the NPC (from some closer distance) and he/she/it responds in some way. You can also "shoot" or "stab" or "hit" a door with a key and it would open. That sort of thing. I don't think this part would be a major problem, the conversation tree is a bigger enigma for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoludens Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I would kill for someone to make an adventure game with Source. This was, in fact, one of my first thoughts the very first time I saw the Half-Life 2 movies. But no one so far has mentioned what kind of adventure it could be. That would determine which features of the engine we could exploit. But even then certain things could be implemented with little effort. All the cutscenes would be in-engine. As Kingz stated, the combat system could be modified into inventory based actions. Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines The dialogue system will need the most work. However, we could wait for Vampires: The Masquerade - Bloodlines to come out. This will be a FPS/RPG hybrid using the Source engine, so it'll have a pretty heavy dialogue system. Of course, that would be contigent on Troika Games releasing their source code for it. Other features we could exploit are the Havok physics engine, which would make for some cool new environmental puzzles, and possibly the A.I., which could really inspire some awesome puzzles based on character interaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja Dodo Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Yeah that would be excellent. Personally I wouldn't necessarily get rid of weapons entirely. I love a good action/adventure - a la Outcast, not Tomb Raider. Course a classic adventure using Source would also be great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Posted August 11, 2003 Author Share Posted August 11, 2003 Of course, the features you don't get from HL2 out of the box can be scripted by hand. Since everything in the game can be scripted, I'm virtually certain that a dialogue tree would be easy to make. I'd say the biggest challenge is dismantling the FPS interface and replacing it with something that makes sense for an adventure game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remixor Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 This would be pretty awesome if someone could pull it off, which I'm sure they could. I don't doubt the ability of the engine, so if anyone gets something like this off the ground, I expect full coverage on AG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoludens Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 God, I wish. It's nervewracking as it is already figuring out how to script a classic 2D adventure game and working with a team to do it. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJKO Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 It would be quite possible to make a third-person Adventure MOD in the Source engine. Easiest way of imagining this, is to think of the spec-mode for popular online games like Counter-Strike and what-not. What if it was always in spec-mode, with mayebe even some fixed cameras, to make sure the player can see what he's supposed to see in the room, and then just have you direct control the character ala Grim Fandango. It shouldn't be too hard to make it point-n-click too, but you'd have to code in a way to make the character find it's way around the level using some sort of AI. But then again, Source has quite the advanced AI already. Heck, they've done RTS type games with even the old Half-Life engine. I've also talked to people that are making a side-scroller in the old Half-Life engine. There's nothing to stop people from making an Adventure game, be it Third-Person or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragou Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 The real problem isn't the lack of available engines to make adventures from. The problem is the lack of people willing to make adventures from them, publishers to support them and a spirit of innovativeness among the adventure game developers (with some slight exceptions, maybe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnyW Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Great idea! I would love to see an adventure game made like this by amateurs. I agree with BigJko, something with fixed backgrounds like GF would be great! Marek, are you thinking or trying to make this game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJKO Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Fixed backgrounds? No, no, either I'm seriously misunderstanding you, or you me, but I do not a want a Grim Fandango-type, static backgrounds. The cameras are just fixed at a certain positions, maybe moving a bit to follow the player, but all in all showing the real-time scene, and all the most important areas of that scene. The cameras could be placed at some cool places, to create a cinematic feel to it, or whatever. Oh, and btw, I've mentioned this "Adventure on Source engine" at least twice. But all the response I got was that it should be done in the Doom 3 engine or the Unreal Warfare engine.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Posted August 12, 2003 Author Share Posted August 12, 2003 Heh sorry. Missed those threads. The Source engine seems to be the best candidate simply for the enormous amount of support and features given to mod makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoludens Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Originally posted by GinnyW Great idea! I would love to see an adventure game made like this by amateurs. I agree with BigJko, something with fixed backgrounds like GF would be great! Yeah, Ginny, you misunderstood bigjko. Why would anyone want to make a 2D game from a 3D engine? That's redundant. Once you go into 3D an entire world of cinematic cutscene possibilities explodes open to you, such as camera panning, zooming in and out of characters' faces, dynamically shifting angles to bring suspense, point of views, or evoke emotions from the player. 2D fixed cameras can only do so much, and I strongly feel it's been exhausted. But the Source engine, on the other hand, has so many potential strengths to really draw us into the story, into the world of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja Dodo Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Anyone ever play the Dutch game "Meesters van Macht"? I had a quick play through it at an open day at HKU and it has a very interesting direct control mouse-driven interface. For example, you could pick up a ball by clicking and and then holding and dragging to lift it up and then if you let go whilst in a sweeping movement you could throw the ball... that sort of thing. There was also a juggling game, where one hand was automatic and you had to control the other hand with a mouse. Imagine that sort of direct manipulation in a Source adventure game... the cool things you could do with physics! Course, you'd want to avoid the hard-to-use interface of Trespasser but for the manipulation of certain objects, this could be very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 just to add something... when people create rally games and plane games with action-engines (and good ones) then i am sure one adventure project can be made, not so easily as it needs many more things but it can be made.... I would guess it would be like morrowind-real Myst game... Anyone ever play the Dutch game "Meesters van Macht"? I had a quick play through it at an open day at HKU and it has a very interesting direct control mouse-driven interface. For example, you could pick up a ball by clicking and and then holding and dragging to lift it up and then if you let go whilst in a sweeping movement you could throw the ball... that sort of thing. There was also a juggling game, where one hand was automatic and you had to control the other hand with a mouse. Imagine that sort of direct manipulation in a Source adventure game... the cool things you could do with physics! nice... ----------------------------------------- ever heard of one game that uses one fantasy-hand that you can move it in the game...never plaied it.....just remembered i read about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Posted August 14, 2003 Author Share Posted August 14, 2003 Originally posted by Ninja Dodo Anyone ever play the Dutch game "Meesters van Macht"? I had a quick play through it at an open day at HKU and it has a very interesting direct control mouse-driven interface. I study at the HKU. Can you remind me what that game was about? I think I know which game you mean but I'm not entirely sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja Dodo Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 Actually I didn't pay much attention to the premise. The only thing I remember is the interface and that you were in a house with lots of activities. Here's what Google says though: http://www.annemariewalker.nl/9tot12/meesters.htm http://www.nrc.nl/W2/Nieuws/1997/12/19/Med/09.html btw... from the Source FAQ: Would it be possible to make a GTA3-style mod in Source? Yes. You would use the vehicle system and AI driver model that we already have. You'd probably downscale the world units to allow for the larger city sizes. The mission structure is very doable including custom UI for setting up the missions. Since GTA3 is kind of an action adventure I think that's a pretty good sign for any adventure oriented projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnyW Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 Oops, sorry, mistake hehe. What I meant was using the engine for the 3d characters, but of course the idea of fixing the camera in place sometimes is much better, to provide interesting angles. So, umm, I was wondering if you guys thought of trying to make something with the engine yourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoludens Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 Gawwd, I would LOVE to make an adventure game with the Source engine. This was transcribed from my ideas folder: The Poseidon Adventure I had this idea for an adventure/action game inspired by the disaster movies of the 70s. This one would be loosely based on The Poseidon Adventure, where the story is that a massive luxury liner is hit by a tidal wave, turned upside down, and a handful of survivors must struggle to get to the surface before the entire ship sinks deep below the surface. (I remember mentioning this idea before, but this is a more detailed description) In this case, you choose to play as one of three of the survivors: a young petite female Olympic gymnast whose boyfriend may be among the dead; the engineer of the ship, a middle aged man who knows every inch of the place; or a young Naval officer known for his strength and swimming abilities. Each character has his/her own advantages and weaknesses, so you'll see different parts of the ship and conceive different solutions to problems depending on which character you play. Choosing one character means that the other two will still be a part of the story and in the game, but the A.I. will take over for them. The singleplayer campaign will focus on working with the NPCs as a team, with you sticking close and helping each other to survive. The A.I. will be cutting edge, with the NPCs basically going about according to their own agendas, so at times it may be difficult to convince them to cooperate (it'll compare in quality to the creature A.I. in Black & White, combined with the stress meter from The Thing). If you chose to play the engineer, for example, you may find yourself unable to squeeze through a partly blocked doorway to get at something, so you'll have to bargain with the gymnast to do it for you because she's tiny. If you play as the gymnast, you can talk to the engineer to find out if there's anything worth finding beyond that blocked doorway that may help you. Narrative wise, the game will be presented just like Half-Life 2, with you and your NPCs 'stumbling' onto events and you having the option to take charge and try to handle things. The ship is steadily sinking from the surface, and there will be unscripted random times when a sudden explosion or shifting of the surrounding structure may threaten you and your fellows. Stay close, maintain the NPCs' trust in you, and some of you may survive. There will no shooting or any other kind of combat. This will be a pure story driven suspense survival adventure game combined with environmental puzzles, kind of like Disaster Report meets ICO. Most of the puzzles have more than one solution, and sometimes you may discover that one or more of your NPCs can be part of the solution. Along the way you'll likely find valuable items like first aid kits, food, fresh water, tools, and information about where to go. Be mindful, though, as everything is scarce. You may even have to sacrifice a bit to help another character out. Later on they'll remember your thoughtfulness and will share their findings with you. Technology. Probably the Source engine (Half-Life 2), with Havok physics and Molyneux's A.I., would be the best choice. This game will rely very heavily on physics, because many of the puzzles involve pushing or pulling things, triggering reactions, or avoiding unstable ground and keeping a solid footing. There may be times when you need to throw things, lift things, grab a NPC to keep them from falling over a ledge, etc. Sound is vital to this game. Listen, for example, very carefully to the sound your footsteps make on metal grating. A solid tap means it can support you, but if you hear a faint creak you can be sure the catwalk might collapse soon, so move quickly. Interface. It'll be in first person view. There will be no HUD at all (like Call of Cthulhu). To gauge your health listen to the other characters, who will automatically let you know how you're doing ("Hey, you'd better drink some water, you look dehydrated", "You're bleeding! Here, let me bandage that"). You'll only be able to carry so much with you, so it's important to keep the other characters in mind, as they're also able to carry stuff too. If your pack is full, ask one of them if they have room for it. And if they find something and can't carry it they might ask you to do the same. This game will have co-op for 3-5 people!! The maps will be randomly generated and will be variations on individual levels in the game. If you want you can also merely spectate, so that it'll look like you're watching a movie and you can see how other players handle the given situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnyW Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 Ooh, I love the idea Trep! Such a game with such great AI would just rock! I'm not sure Peter Molyneux will allow use of his engine, but maybe he would.. Damn, what a great idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJKO Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 There's a good chance the Source engine's physics and AI system could do the job. But that's a very neat idea. Sort of like what "S.O.S" for the Super Nintendo could've been in 3D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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