the same old?

[Rockstar]

hey again guys

 

BEFORE I BEGIN THIS POST, IT CONTAINS NOTHING ABOUT BETA, I HAVE NOT PLAYED BETA NOR HAVE I HEARD ANY RUMORS. MY OPINIONS ARE BASED SOLEY ON OFFICIAL INFORMATION

 

sorry, but i just gotta make sure i don't get falsely accused of anything

 

i haven't been on here a while nor have thought about the new game as of late, but i had a thought about it. i think that the new game (as awesome as it will still be) is going to most definately be way too much like JO for people taste

 

i had these thoughts to factor in:

 

- im not a modder or a computer nerd but as far as i've heard its the same game engine, to my knowledge, with a few new tools and just increased model detail

 

- new weapons ; of which will be overshaddowed with the with the combination of the new saber styles and saber moves (raven said they made this game primary concerntraited on lightsabers - though its what we want ).

 

- enhansed saber system ; it would not at all suprise me if this was top on most gamer's wish lists. this will be a huge plus for the new game and one i look forward to experiencing

 

- new MP modes ; this is where raven's hard work, i feel, is going to pay off. i think siege will be a huge hit! though imho i would have prefered raven to spend time on new powers rather than this new mode (which will be great and must have taken them ages, though i think that we will see an over abundance of jedi and only the occasional rebal... though we may not )

 

- new saber styles ; this will hopefully be cool. i hope that servers are majority filled with single bladed sabers and hope that the other 2 styles aren't better.... this is going to be a huge source of imbalance, i feel ... and with raven's track record of balancing lol jk.

 

 

- NO NEW FORCE POWERS ; yes i know that the JO mp powers are new to sp, but no new MULTIPLAYER powers (which is ususally considered the more lastable side of the game). i know there is force sense but i think im not the only one here who would have liked about 1-3 new powers to each side for the case of new experience, diversity and coolness .

 

cheers for reading guys. send in your thoughts, disagreements. ...anything. its an opinion board

 

imo we really coulda used some new powers that didn't result in one side being better than the other at certain games (seriously, the duel is the most honourable game type and the lightside is disgustingly useless at it (when put up against a decent dark sider) yet the lightside is good at CTF .... *coughs* 'goody' we can grab silly flags but we can't win a mono-a-mono sword fight). new powers could have corrected this issue (eg force reflect) alas it has not happened.

[Neverhoodian]

Yeah, most of us know most of the info on the game, Rockstar. However, I'm always open to discuss them.

 

As far as the new Force powers go, I only wish that there was Destruction and Deadly Sight back from JK. Keep in mind that if new Force powers were introduced, it would be quite a task binding keys to all of them for MP. I liked the keys assigned to them for JO SP, but I kept finding myself binding and re-binding keys for MP, as I sometimes like to switch sides of the Force. It might get too confusing for the casual gamer and too frustrating having to re-bind keys constantly for gamers like me. I'm usually a Light sider in JO MP, and I don't think it's unbalanced compared to Dark Side. You just have to know what defensive Light Side powers to use to counter the offensive Dark Side powers.

[Emon]

Deadly Sight was next to useless, especially in MP. Destruction was cool, but the new grip is better.

 

What I really want is throw.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Rockstar

i had these thoughts to factor in:

 

- im not a modder or a computer nerd but as far as i've heard its the same game engine, to my knowledge, with a few new tools and just increased model detail

Well I am a computer nerd (it pays the bill, you know) While the engine is "the same", it hsa had many modifications done to it since JO, so to say they are the same would be a bit of an injustice. Apart from better graphics and so on, it supports much larger levels, and things like that. That alone should make it a great improvement over JO, IMO.

 

Originally posted by Rockstar

- new weapons ; of which will be overshaddowed with the with the combination of the new saber styles and saber moves (raven said they made this game primary concerntraited on lightsabers - though its what we want ).

I am more or less happy with the weapons that were in JO, and I am glad the conc rifle will make its return. But the lightsaber is certainly what I am looking forward to using.

 

Originally posted by Rockstar

- enhansed saber system ; it would not at all suprise me if this was top on most gamer's wish lists. this will be a huge plus for the new game and one i look forward to experiencing

It tops mine

 

Originally posted by Rockstar

- new MP modes ; this is where raven's hard work, i feel, is going to pay off. i think siege will be a huge hit! though imho i would have prefered raven to spend time on new powers rather than this new mode (which will be great and must have taken them ages, though i think that we will see an over abundance of jedi and only the occasional rebal... though we may not )

Personally, I am pretty happy with the force powers that are currently available. I don't think adding a lot more necessarily helps, especially considering that it just means you have more things to balance.

 

Originally posted by Rockstar

- new saber styles ; this will hopefully be cool. i hope that servers are majority filled with single bladed sabers and hope that the other 2 styles aren't better.... this is going to be a huge source of imbalance, i feel ... and with raven's track record of balancing lol jk.

I was really worried about this in the beginning. I am less so now that it has been said that there are three styles for the single lightsaber and the other two are styles unto themselves. At least on paper it looks like the single lightsaber will be more versatile than the other two. the one thing I am not keen on is that you can only kick with the lightstaff.

 

Originally posted by Rockstar

- NO NEW FORCE POWERS ; yes i know that the JO mp powers are new to sp, but no new MULTIPLAYER powers (which is ususally considered the more lastable side of the game). i know there is force sense but i think im not the only one here who would have liked about 1-3 new powers to each side for the case of new experience, diversity and coolness .

I don't think we really need new force powers. I'd rather just have them have more uses. Again, more force powers means more balancing issues.

 

Originally posted by Rockstar

imo we really coulda used some new powers that didn't result in one side being better than the other at certain games (seriously, the duel is the most honourable game type and the lightside is disgustingly useless at it (when put up against a decent dark sider) yet the lightside is good at CTF .... *coughs* 'goody' we can grab silly flags but we can't win a mono-a-mono sword fight). new powers could have corrected this issue (eg force reflect) alas it has not happened.

I don't think that adding new powers would necessarily improve this, and may end up making it worse. I'd rather just have them work on correcting the current issues.

 

Originally posted by Emon

What I really want is throw.

I agree

[Kurgan]

The main improvements to JA over JK2 seem to be the fact that they're making SP more like MP (giving us access to both sides of the force exclusively, transferring over more of the force powers, etc, letting us choose our skins/saber color, etc).

 

Frankly I see this as a plus, because MP in almost every way for me was superior to SP in JK2. They also will make the saber specialized for each gametype right off the bat (weaker saber in duels, stronger saber everywhere else) which is good news.

 

That and they're giving us a popular FPS mod that is long overdue in a Star Wars game: objective based cooperative class based play.

 

Those thing alone make it something I'm looking forward to. But, I agree that if you hated Jedi Outcast, chances are JA won't do much to win you over. It's built on the same foundation and cut from the same mold.

[lauser]

So I wonder if one could have GRIP and ABSORB on the same side with the new game?

 

I mean I never had any trouble with Grip Whores because if it was a FULL FORCE server then I would just use ABSORB. So call me Absorb Whore then I dont care. All I know is it worked good for me. ABSORB and RED strong you are unstoppable!! Providing you know how to use each well.

[boinga1]

It has been comfirmed that in MP, you can only have force powers from one side. However, it seems feasible that you may be able to use SOME light an dark powers in SP (although it will likely be similar to JK, where after you made the 'final' light/dark choice, you lost your powers from the other side.

 

 

Personally, I plan to take mostly light powers, but grab grip or lighting (at lower levels) for offensive uses.

[Pedro The Hutt]

Originally posted by Emon

Deadly Sight was next to useless, especially in MP. Destruction was cool, but the new grip is better.

 

What I really want is throw.

 

Shame though that you can't do as much as Force pull an item in MP >.> I'm miffed about that, let them be actual items rather than that hologram stuff.

[ryudom]

yes

[defalc]

Originally posted by Prime

I was really worried about this in the beginning. I am less so now that it has been said that there are three styles for the single lightsaber and the other two are styles unto themselves. At least on paper it looks like the single lightsaber will be more versatile than the other two. the one thing I am not keen on is that you can only kick with the lightstaff.

You mean they even removed the normal kicks?

[boinga1]

No, because you can't throw a lightstaff, lightstaff users can kick in any direction. It is a standing kick, any direction, like Darth Maul does in TPM. The regular flip-kick is still in effect as far as I know.

[Obi-Wan X]

I just hope JA doesn't become a " MoTs". Jedi Knight Dark Forces 2 was a good game, and when Mysteries of the Sith (expansion ) came out, no one really played it at all, and it was pretty much better than JK in everyway. Better modding ability, colored lighting, blah blah.

 

The only reason I cant think of why everyone didnt migrate to MoTs was because the vast amount of mods already released for JK.

 

 

I feel everyone will migrate to JA though. I personally would feel like an idiot playing JO multiplayer 2 years after JA was released.

[Kurgan]

I just hope JA doesn't become a " MoTs". Jedi Knight Dark Forces 2 was a good game, and when Mysteries of the Sith (expansion ) came out, no one really played it at all, and it was pretty much better than JK in everyway. Better modding ability, colored lighting, blah blah.

 

Uh oh... shouldn't have said that around me!

 

Must.. restrain.. fist... of.. DEATH!

 

J/k

 

But seriously, "nobody" played MotS? LoL

While it's true that not as many people played MotS online as JK, since it was after all an expansion that required you to own JK first (unless you used a cracked version of course) fewer people were bound to play it, but MANY did, including some of us veterans. IIRC, on the Zone (certainly not the only place to play by any means) there were about half as many MotS servers at any one time as there were JK, at its peak. Some today even consider MotS to be superior to Jedi Outcast in many ways (despite graphical inferiority and lack of dedicated servers of course).

 

It was GREATLY expanded and in fact improved (in the sense of more complexity, more options, and more challenge) in the MP department. The AI was better, we had comrades in arms for the first time, plus lots of nice scripted events and cool weapons. Some people didn't like the fact that it removed the DarkSide/Lightside duality, but many people loved it. In fact, this was retained in Jedi Outcast's single player (combined dark and light powers).

 

Sure, it had some annoying bugs, and the sound effects were lower quality (in JK you could choose high or low res sounds, MotS had ONLY low res) and the cutscenes weren't that great in terms of quality, but the gameplay (which is what matters) was superior I and many of us who actually played it felt.

 

If you think that "being similar to the previous game" is a minus, then JA is going to be a pretty big minus, because the Force powers, weapons, modes, characters, engine, etc are VERY similar to Jedi Outcast, simply improved or added to in certain areas.

 

It looks and sounds very much like a "big expansion" for Jedi Outcast, like MotS was for Jedi Knight. We'll have to play it for ourselves of course, but it sounds to me like your standards will set you up for disapointment with all we've learned so far.

 

Now, just for the heck of it, points of similarity between MotS and JA (note: I don't think they are going to be the same, this is purely for fun, I know some of these are superficial at best):

 

 

 

- MotS featured the weapons, powers, and enemies of the previous game, while adding to them and modifying some of them. JA does the same for Jedi Outcast. MotS used the same engine as JK. JA uses the same engine as its predecessor Jedi Outcast. Both MotS and JA were begun shortly after the completion of their forerunners and had people from the previous team working on the new game.

 

- MotS added a big rancor that eats you. JA adds a big rancor that eats you. The promotional art for MotS showed Mara facing a Rancor with her lightsaber drawn. JA shows a similar scene with an "unknown Jedi."

 

- MotS let you play as a sassy female Jedi. JA has been promoted with sassy female Jedi and you get to play as one of your choosing.

 

- MotS added class based options to Multiplayer. JA adds class based options to multiplayer.

 

- MotS focused more on the saber & force in SP than the previous game, as well as starting you off with some force and the saber from the beginning. JA: ditto.

 

- MotS has a new Jedi in training, under the tutelage of Kyle going off on various missions for the Republic. JA... hmm, sounds familiar!

 

- MotS had a new game mode specifically for lightsaber battles (Lightsaber Training). JA has a new game mode specifically for lightsaber battles (Power Duel).

 

- MotS had a cameo appearance of the Millennium Falcon. JA (IIRC) has a cameo appearance of the Millennium Falcon.

 

- MotS added swamp Wampas. JA adds snow Wampas.

 

- MotS featured a Darkside cult (the ancient Sith). JA features a Darkside cult. Imagine!

 

- MotS featured a good character being tempted by the Darkside. JA features a good character being tempted by the Darkside (albeit differently, but you get the idea. ; )

 

- MotS was going to feature drivable vehicles (all it ended up having was the EWEB blaster cannon of course, which made it into Jedi Outcast as well). JA will feature drivable vehicles (granted, so did Outcast, but you get the idea).

 

 

[Obi-Wan X]

But seriously, "nobody" played MotS? LoL

While it's true that not as many people played MotS online as JK, since it was after all an expansion that required you to own JK first (unless you used a cracked version of course) fewer people were bound to play it, but MANY did, including some of us veterans. IIRC, on the Zone (certainly not the only place to play by any means) there were about half as many MotS servers at any one time as there were JK, at its peak. Some today even consider MotS to be superior to Jedi Outcast in many ways (despite graphical inferiority and lack of dedicated servers of course).

 

I agree, but then again I certainly remember playing Jedi Knight on the Zone, and seeing perhaps 250+ people in the Jedi Knight rooms, and perhaps 30 if you were lucky in the mots room, not to mention low player counts for mots players in gamespy. And i've been playing Jedi Knight: DF 2 for quite some time. And im not really comparing JA to MoTs, seeing as though JA is its own game ( though LA/Raven don't seem to really be trying to make it seem like it). I just meant that I hope that JA doesnt turn out to be like MoTs, in the way that there are more people playing JO than JA. MoTs was superior to JK, indeed it was. I had mots, and I loved it. Though I could rarely find a good amount of players to go against, unlike in JK where there were a lot of places to play.

 

 

 

It was GREATLY expanded and in fact improved (in the sense of more complexity, more options, and more challenge) in the MP department. Sure, it had some annoying bugs, and the sound effects were lower quality (in JK you could choose high or low res sounds, MotS had ONLY low res) and the cutscenes weren't that great in terms of quality, but the gameplay (which is what matters) was superior I and many of us who actually played it felt.

 

I agree it was greatly expanded upon as I said earlier . Then again JA and MoTs can be quite similar in the facts that they were both sequels, had improved gameplay and other things, and simply an improved game. Of course JA may have added more than MotS, but the only difference I can really see between JA and MotS is that it's its own game. Which isn't a bad thing, its just that imo I find JA to be somewhat similar to MotS in that aspect.

 

If you think that "being similar to the previous game" is a minus, then JA is going to be a pretty big minus, because the Force powers, weapons, modes, characters, engine, etc are VERY similar to Jedi Outcast, simply improved or added to in certain areas.

 

 

I don't think that, seeing as though my feelings on MoTs were pretty good. I simply don't want JA to be like MotS in a way that everyone stays in JO and doesn't migrate to JA.

 

It looks and sounds very much like a "big expansion" for Jedi Outcast, like MotS was for Jedi Knight. We'll have to play it for ourselves of course, but it sounds to me like your standards will set you up for disapointment with all we've learned so far.

 

 

I agree, I enjoyed MotS and im quite sure i'll enjoy JA. Then again...my standards? Everything i've said indicates that I thought mots was a good game aside from the low player rate I found. So I don't really think im setting myself up for dissapointment.

[Rockstar]

i for one would not have missed flip kicks (due to their spamming, and overall goofy/ridiculas concept). if the kicks think that kicks should not do any damage (the fact that a kick is even measurabe to a lightsaber's damage!?) and kicks should push stagger a player back, not knock them off their feet (unless they are in the air)

 

i hope this is how the light staff works, i hope lucas arts did listen to the bitching that kicks caused in the last game... seriously, it was almost like XENA!! WHY would you kick someone in your right mind if you had a lightsaber in your hand!? the only times maul did it were when sabers were tied up or when the player was staggered (and his restricted movement from his lance probably made a kick more feasable)

 

thanks for your thoughts guys. especially you prime

[Obi-Wan X]

There is nothing wrong with the kickflip. It's not totally realistic....so what?!?!?!?! Im not looking for infinite realism.

 

Don't whine when someone kickflips you. If you allow some guy to simply run up to you and kick you, then that says something about your own skills. And there are ways to get out of the pull/kick combo as well.

 

But...I wouldn't mind the kickflip being changed into a jump kick, like Obi-Wan did in AotC. It could have the exact same effects as the kickflip, but it would look a bit more real.

[The Count]

MOTS after I got it, was the only Multiplayer I played.

[Khier]

I've always thought that the kick in JO would look a lot better with a nicer looking animation myself...

 

Darth Maul was a cocky and skilled s.o.b. so he kicked Obi Wan, or was it Qui Gon? Either way it's normally not a good idea, seeing as though you could quickly be short one limb in the blink of an eye against a saber wielding opponent.

 

I've found that kick can be very dangerous to do in servers with high saber damage (very rare to find a server like that though)...

[ryudom]

if your already parrying a saber and you kick on the other side it wouldn't be that risky.

[Rockstar]

Originally posted by Obi-Wan X

There is nothing wrong with the kickflip. It's not totally realistic....so what?!?!?!?! Im not looking for infinite realism.

 

Don't whine when someone kickflips you. If you allow some guy to simply run up to you and kick you, then that says something about your own skills. And there are ways to get out of the pull/kick combo as well.

 

But...I wouldn't mind the kickflip being changed into a jump kick, like Obi-Wan did in AotC. It could have the exact same effects as the kickflip, but it would look a bit more real.

 

ok you've twisted my words

 

did i ever say i've had trouble with kickers? no

did i say that this was a solution to kick spammers? no

 

where the h*ll did you pull that outta? i said i simply wanted something less stupid and more realistic. in Ep1 Darth Maul's kicks only knocked them down because they were pushed off the edge! and the kicks didn't hurt them. a kick should be used to create distance between you and your opponent (thats the point) or to throw something out when your hands are tied up.

im just saying the animation should be slower and more of a jump kick, that does no damage, and shoudn't be able to out speed saber slashes (though that should not be a big deal)

 

as for ryydom's comment: im sorry man, but when the opposition is carrying a big lazer that can cut through your leg without even needing any force to do so, im affraid any kick is actually risky.

[Obi-Wan X]

ok you've twisted my words

did i ever say i've had trouble with kickers? no

 

I don't believe I twisted your words at all. But excuse me if you were confused by my words. When I was stating something like " if you allow someone to kick you....", I wasn't centering my post on you. I was speaking in general about kicking.

 

 

As far as lightstaff kicking goes, I think it'll be pretty good. And there IS a risk using it....thats the point. It's your choice if you want to use it or not. If you have high dismemberment on, and you kick at an opponent and he slices toward your leg quickly, then you probably will be missing a leg.

 

But from what i've heard, the lightstaff is a very speedy, offensive weapon. I suspect the majority of players will always try to be on the offensive. Not only because they can get good damage and quickly, not only because the thing looks like a blur of action, but because they can also get in for a quick kick as well.

 

So as soon as I play some SP/Mp, i'll already be thinking in my mind how to counter Lightstaff attacks. Or...if I like it, i'll be thinking how to use the weapon to my advantage .