El Sitherino Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Originally posted by Kain Hum, the Bible says homosexuality is a Sin. It also says eating meat on a Friday is a Sin. What does THAT teach us? friday is meat and gay sex night. seriously now. As ET said anyone stating their belief of thinking homosexuality is wrong but that they should be able to live their lives I would definitely not call homophobic or even hateful. it's just a simple belief that I disagree with, But when someone states that homosexuals are "perverts, and child molestors" that's when I get upset, and when people tease homosexuals just because they are homosexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoxStar Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I say that we should let them do whatever they want 'cause they're US Citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Originally posted by ET Warrior Maybe he denied it because homosexuals are so looked down upon and persecuted these days. Maybe he figured if you knew he was gay you wouldn't be his friend anymore (which turned out to be correct) So he just didn't tell you. To be fair, Majin said he wasn't the gay friend's friend anymore was because the friend lied, not entirely because he gay(although, I think that Majin probably would've done the same thing if his friend did tell the truth). Also, rccar328, I agree, I was just stating my opinion. I also agree that homosexuals or bisexuals shouldn't be hit or killed, but maybe teased (sorry, can't help it). I do hope you're not a Christian, or else you're disobeying the Golden Rule(of course, judging from your reasoning it seems like you like being teased..). Oh, and by the way, I'm 13, so the whole "I'm 14 and stubborn" act won't excactly do too well here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PR-0927 Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 LOL, you are right about the 14 year old stubborn thing. No, I'm not Christian, I'm Hindu. Seriously. Most people don't believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 Originally posted by majinrevan LOL, you are right about the 14 year old stubborn thing. No, I'm not Christian, I'm Hindu. Seriously. Most people don't believe me. I believe ya, I'm don't know much about the Hindu religion myself, I assume though that it does have something on treating others like you want to be treated, right? Correct me if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiser_Cain Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 You're wrong. I don't know about the official religious line but gay people are, as far as I know, treated horribly in India. And nevermind the caste system! Don't know how much of that this kid picked up or if this is just good old american bigotry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 Originally posted by Weiser_Cain Don't know how much of that this kid picked up or if this is just good old american bigotry... Do you mean Majin or I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Originally posted by Tyrion Do you mean Majin or I? Probably Majin. He's the one that's hindu and [Edited By SkinWalker]. ** Please be mindful of ad hominem remarks, even if borderline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Ah, well, I'm back into it. I am not a bigot; not even by your rather sweeping definitions. However, I reserve the right to tell them that I believe their actions are wrong. I reserve the right to believe that, as the majority of world cultures have consistently disagreed with homosexual unions (despite the few examples provided), it is in the best interests of society to maintain marriage as a stable institution. I reserve the right to express that opinion - and attempt to support it - without being called a moron. That's the only problem with these forums, is that everyone you disagree with is automatically a moron. Or maybe it's just a symptom of our culture in general, I'm not sure... anyway. the assumption that homosexuality is an innate trait has been made by most of the studies attempting to prove that very thing. Moreover, such studies rarely if ever acknowledge the controversial nature of the issue - and the fact that many respected scientists disagree with those studies. Furthermore, the fact that being a Christian and publishing a study almost automatically shouts "bias! ignore!" but being a leftist ideologically is considered to have no bias in a study at all. I will not use the "Bible says so must be true" argument here, for reasons I have repeatedly explained in other threads. That would require me to prove the Bible's validity to prove my point, and that's not the subject of this thread. I will, however, point out a rather disturbing situation that, if this is carried to its logical conclusion, must be allowed. the primary argument of this movement is "consenting adults". I can understand, even agree with that to a certain point. But then I stop. Here's why: Recently in Germany, a man placed an ad running something like "Looking for welll-built young man wanting to be eaten." I'm not joking. Nor am I less than serious when I say that someone responded and allowed himself to be killed and eaten - apparently he had an obsession with pain. But now, despite the fact that Germany's legal system follows the "consenting adults" argument, it is charging the eater with murder and sending him to prison. My question is, why? If the other man wanted to be eaten, it was his right to decide what to do with his body. It was his right to consent to such disgusting behavior. It was both of their right to behave in a manner consisten with their beliefs. So what was done is technically not wrong if you follow these arguments to their logical conclusion... I'm just curious what your responses to this will be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 But now, despite the fact that Germany's legal system follows the "consenting adults" argument, it is charging the eater with murder and sending him to prison. My question is, why? If the other man wanted to be eaten, it was his right to decide what to do with his body. It was his right to consent to such disgusting behavior. It was both of their right to behave in a manner consisten with their beliefs. So what was done is technically not wrong if you follow these arguments to their logical conclusion... I know about this case - and I've gotta say, there is a perfectly viable argument for that NOT being murder. the other guy DID want to be eaten! So let's say that it was decided that wasn't murder. Are you saying that that's a dangerous precident to set because suddenly loads of people might decide THEY might want to get eaten alive too?! Also, if you need a more legitamete and less morally ambigious example of 'consentual killing' - how about euthenasia? Do you believe that that is wrong? I've seen this evidence concerning inborn homosexuality, and as far as I'm concerned - it's conclusive. You can go on about scientific bias all you like - when religion doesn't like the evidence presented to it, that's their 'get out of jail free' card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Ah, well, I'm back into it. I am not a bigot; not even by your rather sweeping definitions. I could say I'm not a murderer even if I killed 10 people, since I believed they were zombies. But now, despite the fact that Germany's legal system follows the "consenting adults" argument, it is charging the eater with murder and sending him to prison. My question is, why? If the other man wanted to be eaten, it was his right to decide what to do with his body. It was his right to consent to such disgusting behavior. It was both of their right to behave in a manner consisten with their beliefs. So what was done is technically not wrong if you follow these arguments to their logical conclusion... [/b] I do hope you're not implying that homosexuality is as bad as murder. I believe that no person has the right to take another lifes- wether or not the other person agrees to it. Even in battle, aiming to kill should be a last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 My question is, why? If the other man wanted to be eaten, it was his right to decide what to do with his body. It was his right to consent to such disgusting behavior. It was both of their right to behave in a manner consisten with their beliefs. So what was done is technically not wrong if you follow these arguments to their logical conclusion... Consenting to homsexuality in ABSOLUTLEY NO WAY compares consenting to letting somebody kill you. You're basically equating homosexuals with murderers here, which doesn't help your 'I'm not a biggot' stance. Consenting to being a homosexual and having sex with a member of your gender doesn't KILL somebody. In fact, homosexuality is helpful, because that's a pair of humans who aren't going to be contributing to the world's over population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoniteHobbit Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by ET Warrior In fact, homosexuality is helpful, because that's a pair of humans who aren't going to be contributing to the world's over population. I don't think this accounts for much... saying homosexuality is okay because of this reason... Personally I don't like the fact that in some areas same sex marraiges are allowed. But I really do not care what gays do to themselves. They can do whatever they want as long as it does not affect me or anyone else who doesn't care about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by MennoniteHobbit I don't like the fact that in some areas same sex marraiges are allowed I agrree, but not on the level you mean it as. I think it should be allowd...period. I don't know why people can't get over the fact that its okay for them to have sex when they're 13, but that 2 wo/men can't love each other without being profiled and hated. Christians, let the 'heathens burn in Hell', but stay out of their business. Non-religious anti-gays, why not work your OWN relationships instead of bashing other ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by Master_Keralys I reserve the right to believe that, as the majority of world cultures have consistently disagreed with homosexual unions The majority of the world's culture's throughout history have consistently disagreed with the equality of women as well. Does this mean it was a mistake for modern Western cultures to allow women the right to vote? I think it's safe to say that analogy successfully refutes the appeals to tradition fallacy in regards to what the "majority of the world's cultures" think. Originally posted by Master_Keralys it is in the best interests of society to maintain marriage as a stable institution. As mentioned before, there is no evidence to support this. The strongest argument (perhaps the only argument) for that comes from the Christians of the so-called religious right. Yet, divorce, crime, adultry, greed, gluttony, physical abuse, child neglect, child molestation, drug abuse, rape, and sexual misconduct are no less frequent among this group than the rest of the population. Originally posted by Master_Keralys I reserve the right to express that opinion - and attempt to support it - without being called a moron. I agree. PM me with the URL and post # of any ad hominem remarks and I'll edit them. No one will be directly flamed in the Senate. Originally posted by Master_Keralys My question is, why? If the other man wanted to be eaten, it was his right to decide what to do with his body. It was his right to consent to such disgusting behavior. What are you talking about? What has this to do with same-sex marriage? You're comparing apples and cinderblocks... the two aren't even the same shape! If you are to compare a loving relationship between two people to the brutal homicide and cannibalism that occurs between two others and offer this as an argument as to why same-sex marriage is morally wrong, why would you bother to be critical of so-called "leftist" biases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Originally posted by MennoniteHobbit I don't think this accounts for much... saying homosexuality is okay because of this reason... I did not say homosexuality was okay because of this reason. I said this is an actual benefit of homosexuality. Homosexuality is okay because it's their life and not yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cheat Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 i myself am against same sex marriage. it goes against the basic fundamentals of the bible that i have been taught for years. i am not against same sex unions, i just dont think they should be blessed by a church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Originally posted by The Cheat i am not against same sex unions, i just dont think they should be blessed by a church. "Unions," "marriage...." call it "sunshine on daisies" if you want. The point is that two people who love each other and are willing to commit themselves to one another should have the rights and benifits guaranteed to those willing to enter the contract of marriage. Besides, marriage is a legal definition, not a religious one. A look at the diversity of cultures and religions of the world will make it evident that no single religion has full domain over it and that religious ceremonies surrounding marriage come from religions adapting to human norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiser_Cain Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Originally posted by The Cheat i myself am against same sex marriage. it goes against the basic fundamentals of the bible that i have been taught for years. i am not against same sex unions, i just dont think they should be blessed by a church. Actually since there is a seperation between church and state no church would have to. So that argument is baseless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by MennoniteHobbit I don't think this accounts for much... saying homosexuality is okay because of this reason... Personally I don't like the fact that in some areas same sex marraiges are allowed. But I really do not care what gays do to themselves. They can do whatever they want as long as it does not affect me or anyone else who doesn't care about them. So then their marriage should be allowed, It has no negative effect on you what-so-ever. Why do you not understand that 2 people getting married has no effect on you at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Through history, how much pain have homosexual unions caused other people with open minds, who recognize homosexuality as simply being a part of genetical nature as much as heterosexuality though not as frequent? None. Through history, how much pain have narrowsighted persons caused homosexuals through surpression and persecution, thinking that homosexuality is not simply a part of genetical nature? Far too much. This is the nth thread on homosexuality, and it is frustrating to learn by them, how widespread homophobia seemingly still is in a world that has so much enlightenment to offer if one is thus inclined. Yes, I gather all of the arguments against homosexuality under the banner of homophobia; I don't care how justified you might feel yourself behind your shield of religion against homosexuality, I don't care how many misinterpretations of various Bible quotes you can present; to me you are just fearful, and through that deliberately ignorant. Open your eyes and minds, people. It hurts at first to crawl out from under your safe rock of fearfuelled ignorance, but after a while the bright light of enlightenment won't hurt your eyes anymore. It will actually become most welcome as it will make you grow and become stronger. We have more than enough fear causing pain in this world - why add to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Originally posted by Jubatus This is the nth thread on homosexuality, and it is frustrating to learn by them, how widespread homophobia seemingly still is in a world that has so much enlightenment to offer if one is thus inclined. Yes, I gather all of the arguments against homosexuality under the banner of homophobia as i get it most "homophobic" are just "afraid" of being "targets" for gays. tse. they complain how hard this and that gay guy tried to make a hit on them. what they seem to "forget" is that this may be comparible to how girls must feel sometimes if they try to hit on them. I don't care how justified you might feel yourself behind your shield of religion against homosexuality, I don't care how many misinterpretations of various Bible quotes you can present; i agree, because sometime it just sounds like "yeah. gays are something strange, sinners in my eyes. sorry, but that's the opinion i've been taught since whenever. my religion says that and so it is." that's sad somehow. i mean one can be religious if he wants, but should not be blinded by it (or the church that "preaches" it). i mean that the church of a religion can fail with interpretations of the religious sources and documents. it happened and will happen again (happens). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 For the record, I just want to say how great it is to have so many people on here for enlightenment. Seriously, you'd think humans would have grown out of their past prejudices: Guess not. Interesting fact: Alexander the Great, who conquered damn near half the eastern world had a gay lover that went with him on all of his battle marches so they could 'do their thing'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 - most ancient cultures were fairly ambivilent about sexuality, with a lot of famous historical figures from history having both male and female lovers. It was only from around 2000 years ago that it started to become a taboo. I guess there is a historical and social explanation around somewhere. - I've never got this whole "defend the institution of marriage for a stable society" arguement. It is only in the interests of those who are in the accepted group, not in the interests of anyone else. Marriage rates seem to have nothing to do with crime rates or anything else... i remeber reading a book on polynesian culture (before it was corrupted by western morals) where they had polygamy and a basic "free love" attitude. Apparently it was an idylic society until christian misionaries turned up to "save" them. - The guy in germany was found not guilty of murder by a jury of his peers, he was however found guilty of manslaughter. - Our western values have been just as corrupted by religious fundamentalism as those of countries in the middle east are now. Many of our "values" and "laws" we take as universal were actually only instituted around the victorian era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiroki Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 I have to step in here, as I am getting sick of this Anti-Christian crap. Stop pinning abuse againts homosexuals on christians. Christians - true ones, anyway, do not go around hitting them with bats, or protesting againts them. Christians may not hang around with them, because that WOULD go againts the morals in the Bible. But the Bible clearly states: That God alone is the judge of mankind, not the christians themselves. Yes, it was wrong for people in the old days to stone others to death, now real christian will deny that. It was also wrong to mistreat races of a differant colour in the past, after all, they are God's childran themselves, right? Well christians do not support the abuse to homosexuals either. Christians do not suport the rights to gay marrage, but do not directly apose it either. Christians do there thing, and let the rest burn in hell. They may tell them of the Christian way, just to let them know its open to them, but they won't force it on anyone. Stop the hate againts christians already, its sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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