What can I do to improve pcgamemods?

[Lil Killa]

Originally posted by Zappa_0

I have came up with a few ideas...

 

 

1) Yea thoe whole resizing thing is kinda takes up time. Isnt there someway where we the submitters just submit the pictures and have some html script let it be view at a certain size and let it be clicked on for regular size in another window?

 

If you read earlier you would notice that a php option was considered.

 

2)Or perhaps get another person with the crew to just do screenshots. People sends in the screenshots, then they do what the need to with them so they can be viewed with the file?

 

Again if you read earlier you would notice that Sergio doesn't want to take on any extra staff and I don't think anyone currently on the staff has enough time to resize the screenshots for everyone.

 

3) Submit the files at normal size and just take away the thumbnails so ppl can just click a next or previous button to view them.

 

Unless the user was pressing links or this was on a different page then this might waste bandwidth. Plus someone with 56k isn't going to want to wait on those large pictures to load...

 

 

Also if you don't want to use easy thumbnail that you could always go out and find your own program to do it or change the sizes with the correct sufix for each on in an image editing program....

[Sergio-pcgs]

Lil Killa did a pretty good job of summing up.

 

1.) I will make a php script that allows users to manually send each original screenshot up manually. It will be for lack of a better word, idiot-proof.

 

2.) You mean gruntwork, no. Nobody should have to do something you are to lazy to do yourself.

 

3.) No.

[Zappa_0]

WOW calm down, it was only suggestions....no need to bite my head off! I was just trying to help Sergio out.

[wedge2211]

First off, I would like to say that Sergio has done an incredible job for a three-person site (and hey, it used to be just Sergio alone!)

 

I have a couple comments based on the discussion thus far:

 

1. File versions

As has been mentioned before, some authors tend to release several versions of a file in a few days' time, and put in the comments "Ill put a new ver up when I fix this next one bug kthxbye." It would really help to have an "update" button for each map in the user control panel--then authors could re-upload a new file version, change the description, and increment the version number. You could have the updated file appear at the top of the file listing, to reflect the change, but require a new upload so people don't spam the system just to get their mod up top. This could also help combat corrupted .zip files--authors can just upload a new one.

 

2. Clans

My personal opinion on the matter is, if you have a clan skin or map, give it to your clan. Put it on your clan website for download. Don't throw it out there for everybody to see, when only your clan has any interest in downloading and ranking (probably spam-ranking) the map. Uploading clan maps to PCGM also has the added drawback to clan authors of exposing their often mediocre work to constructive criticism from the community, and then they get annoyed when they recieve such comments. The clan sections and clan-filtering options are a good compromise between people like clan mappers and people like me.

 

3. Author Comments

I don't think authors should be able to comment on their own work, at leat not initially. Too many mods recieve, as their first comment, the author stating "hey this is my xth map and it has this feature and that feature and thanks to all these people and it's awesome so have fun!" That sort of thing belongs in the description (and, often, these are people with inadequate descriptions doing this!) and is unecessary. Another problem is that authors get into the habit of checking their comments hourly and responding (sometimes violently) to constructive criticism. I think that either authors should not be allowed to comment on their own work, they should not be allowed to make the first comment on their work, or they should only be allowed to comment after a specific time has elapsed, number of downloads has been reached, etc. The only drawback, as I see it, is that authors would be reduced in their capacity to respond appropriately to constructive criticisms, but in my opinion, that's what showcase WIP threads and private betas are for.

 

4. File Moderating

pcgamemods needs to have a posted, comprehensive set of rules. I check pcgm fairly regularly, and look at most new files, if only cursorily--and so it's my experience that every file that Eldritch removes from the site was either pornographic, plagiarized, or corrupted. Most users of PCGM agreed with his decision--I saw comment sections that consisted of long strings of "this is inappropriate admins plz remove this file"--and then the authors acted surprised when he did just that. There would have been less confusion if the file entry had been replaced by a removal notice containing the reason the file was pulled, which rules were violated. Eldritch took the first step by posting a set of submission rules/reasons for file deletion up on the PCGM home page, but that isn't as visible as the rules should be (ie, stick them right on the submit page). I don't think that any such pornographic/inappropriate/plagiarized material should be tolerated on PCGM at all. It doesn't help the site serve the community, but makes it look more unprofessional and immature. Authors who want to make such material can take their business elsewhere if they don't like it. This is not a problem with Eldritch, Sergio, or pcgamemods.com. I also disagree that Eldritch has been pompous in file comments--knowing him, I know that he tends to be rather blunt and pretty sarcastic (which he could certainly work on...nudge, nudge), but you have to keep in mind that if he comments on a file, he's speaking as a JO/JA gamer, not as "the word of pcgamemods." Using the example of the Trade Federation Control Ship...he said everything I would have said about that map. It was a disappointment after the hype. Comments like "OMG this R0X0RS is AWESOME D/L NOW" don't tell authors or users anything about the map...but constructive criticism (even if it's thorough) does. There's nothing wrong with a contrasting opinion, even if it come from an admin. Eldritch just needs to remember that users don't make a distinction between Eldritch the admin and Eldritch the user.

 

5. Reviewing

As Sergio has said, staffers taking screenshots or posting reviews is a very cumbersome system. It develops a huge backlog. It's a very good thing for a site to do, great service...but it requires more infrastructure than PCGM has right now, and PCGM is just a different kind of file site with its own needs. Here comes the self-plug I can't believe Kengo missed...if you're looking for a review of a map and a couple screenshots, try Map-Review. We provide thorough reviews of maps, from technical, aesthetic, and gaming points of view, and 99% of our reviews contain several screenshots of each map. pcgamemods is one of the primary file sites that we look at for new material and download links. We also have a forum where you can discuss our reviews. [EDIT: Unfortunately, Map-Review seems to be down with the rest of jediknight.net right now...]

 

Well, Sergio, I'm glad to see you're trying to improve. You've done a wonderful job so far, here's to seeing pcgamemods get even better!

[Master William]

Thumbnails for screenshots, and there shouldn't be a clan section. Every clan thing should be sorted with the normal stuff.

[Casperhead]

I think you need to cut down a little bit Files containing mp3 files will not offend the music industry there too busy with kazaa

[Casperhead]

Originally posted by Eldritch

Bountyjedi,

 

I don't think putting clan stuff into its own section would keep it from being downloaded - it would just get it out of the way of everyone who doesn't want to see it. Having it in its own section will actually make it easier to find, since it won't be lumped in with all the other real maps / files (and honestly, who downloads these things other than clan members who know that they're there).

 

It will also make keeping the JA section clean and organized much easier for me.

 

Real maps a map is a map. Clan maps can be good look at XG arena and the hangout and no wedge I don't think there should be a staff review Rerember this people mapping is not a higharchy.

[wedge2211]

The distinction is one of intent: clan maps are intended for a specific group of half a dozen or so gamers, while free-for-alls, CTF, etc are intended for everyone regardless. And...geez, I'm apalled that you'd place Hangout in the same category as LDJ.

 

Anyways...yes, I did say that pcgamemods should not review files. They can't support it. It's nice, but they can not and should not do it. That's why I provided an external review site as a shameless plug.

 

Oh, you're not the Casper with bad grammar and an attitude that was banned not too long ago for harassing forum members, are you?

[Casperhead]

No I'm Ted kennedy. Yes I'm Casper

http://forums.massassi.net/html/Forum5/HTML/010751.html

Do you call that a clan map? It could be one

[Zappa_0]

Some of the best maps are clan maps. Ive used a few in my movies. One the biggest thing I have against clan related are the skins. They should host those on their own site. Not many people of other clans gets them, to them its only wasted space on there hard drive. But still we cant deny them if they are not able to host them for themselves. Hehehe back in the old days we didnt have clan skins, we had to use those in the game or get the Big Fluffy Pack, which had alot of great skins in it.

[kahn]

i said this on a comment to a file, but what if you get one more person to help you with putting up screenshots for files who never put one up. I am sure the ppl running right now dont have to the to do so, so if you do get one or tw ppl for all the games, you will get less comments about wanting screenshots.

[Sergio-pcgs]

First of all, nobody is hold a gun to your head saying "CLICK THE OPTION TO DISABLE THE VIEWING OF CLAN MAPS NOW!". If you want you can check out the maps specifically for clans in that section, it only makes sense.

 

My opinion on map reviews:

I think map reviews are completely useless. I have never, and this is pre-jedioutcastmaps.com, downloaded a map because somebody reviewed it or said it was good/bad. I look at the screenshots, this simple concept is what started jedioutcastmaps.com. Who the hell cares if someone says "this is architecturally adequate", download the map and play it for yourself. Better yet, just look at the screenshots. Which is what I did, I setup a site based around using screenshots to sell the map/mod and it obviously worked. I don't know why so many of you are getting wrapped up on map reviews. Would you have downloaded LDJ's Duel of the Fates if you didn't see the 36 screenshots I put up? Would you have downloaded it if I had just said "it's duel of the fates from star wars, it's big and large and I like it". I know I wouldn't, I would want to see what it looks like, seeing as the point of a map is to create a good fighting scenario and be visually appeasing.

 

Map-review is a critique site, it's just some of the more experienced mappers giving their take on the map and what can be done to improve it or if it's already good, giving the author praise for his work.

 

I agree with reviewing mods, as it involves more than just looking at the scenery.

[Ender_920]

I have one suggestion. In order to vote, you have to make a comment on the file. That simple. Because there are so many people out there that vote on a file unfairly because they're sick of reborn skins, because they simply don't like the author, or because they are just bitter people that give every file a one.

 

The people that vote this way are too lazy to look at the file from different perspectives and in voting unfairly, hurt the author, and the people looking for good files.

 

It can also be looked from another perspective, people that often give good votes for strange or irrellivent reasons that also give the file an unfair vote.

 

If a person wants to vote, he or she should explain why the file got that rating. If they don't have a significant reason to give it that vote, they'll simply decide not to vote because they're lazy.

 

Also, this would help authors improve their files by getting feedback on previous files and allow them to use the information for future mods.

[razorace]

I think that's a bad idea. There's too much crap in the comments as is.

[Ender_920]

Well, maybe making a minimum word count of like 20 words. Then they will have a hard time spouting off something short and pointless. The whole premise of my idea is that if these people are too lazy to test the mod, they're too lazy to make an intelligent comment on a file they didn't bother investigating.

[Mike Windu]

to be honest, there are too many authors and members saying "omg this is soo cool omg omg wow 10000000000000000000000000000000000/10 wow omg you should make more of these wow its so cool i like the big room" and then saying one word like awesome, copying and pasting it like we are all illiterate

 

these comments are a waste...

[razorace]

Originally posted by Ender_920

Well, maybe making a minimum word count of like 20 words. Then they will have a hard time spouting off something short and pointless. The whole premise of my idea is that if these people are too lazy to test the mod, they're too lazy to make an intelligent comment on a file they didn't bother investigating.

 

If you make it difficult, the public is simply quit leaving feedback.

[GothiX]

Besides, for the best files around at the moment, I'd rather make a short comment, like "So awesome", etcetera.

[Darth Kaan]

Originally posted by Eldritch

Bountyjedi,

 

I don't think putting clan stuff into its own section would keep it from being downloaded - it would just get it out of the way of everyone who doesn't want to see it. Having it in its own section will actually make it easier to find, since it won't be lumped in with all the other real maps / files (and honestly, who downloads these things other than clan members who know that they're there).

 

It will also make keeping the JA section clean and organized much easier for me.

 

Common sense dictates that clan files are posted to pcgamemods for the same reason all other files are. So players have a place to download them from. That's the purpose of the site, isnt it?

 

There is plenty of garbage posted at pcgamemods everyday that has nothing to do with "clans." Are you going to start a section for the "Real maps" as well?

[lauser]

Well I do like a great many clan maps and I do agree with Wedge somewhat. What I don't really like is Eldritch. He and I obviously don't see eye to eye for whatever reason. When I asked him one time to provide examples of false information I was providing on Lucas Forums.....he couldn't. So I surmised he lied. He never answered. I say fire him. (This is my own personal opinion BTW)

I mean seriously he is the only one that I have encountered that generates sparks between people. No one else does that.

 

(HUGE EDIT HERE BEFORE MY COMMENT GETS DELETED BY A MODERATOR)

[Sergio-pcgs]

lauser - That is of course your opinion on Eldritch which is not exactly shared amongst everyone. Eldritch does nothing wrong; he is merely cleaning up the site. As for his comments, I won't put a limit on what he has to say just as I won't put a limit as to what anybody else has to say. It's an opinion, simple as that I won't 'fire' him because what he says bothers you. What he is 'hired' to do is to help keep pcgamemods clean which is he doing a great job at. If he starts doing something like, deleting files for no reason, or modifying the contents of the files then I would 'fire' him. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

Ender - It's easy to think of these ideas and think of how they would benefit the site. Many of the ideas I have had have had were thrown out simply because ideally the idea worked, but when I placed that idea into a realistic situation I knew it wouldn't last. For instance you say that users should have to comment first before they rate. In that case, someone will say something like "this sucks" then rate a file a 1. If I put a 20 word limit on files users could write "this sucks sucks suck sucks etc.." until they reached 20 words. In an ideal world that idea would work, but then again in an ideal world I wouldn't have to consider such a system since the current system would be working ideally as I intended it to.

[Darth Kaan]

pcgamemods offers a great place to download maps and mods from and upload them too. That has never been an issue. But, here are the three main problems whether you want to acknowledge them or not.

 

1. The thumbnail process of submittng screenshots is too envolved, hence why many of the submitting authors are not willing to go through it.

 

2. You don't screen files before upload.

 

3. Eldritch has a nasty elitest attitude often to those not in his "circle".

 

Whatever...there are at least 4 other file sites to submit to and download from. People can choose which ones to use.

[GothiX]

1. It's easy, you just need to follow the instructions properly. Sadly, not many people are able to do that.

 

2. Which would take time, and work - PCGM rocks so much because it's the fastest site when it comes to uploading. (Massassi is fast too, but you'll need to poke the level posters over IRC..)

 

3. He might be harsh in his comments, but really, what he says is true, no doubt about that. he knows what he says, and he's willing to stand for it. I'm harsh in my comments as well, some people don't mind it, others go like "Wtf omg usuk stfu kthxbai lol".

[Darth Kaan]

Originally posted by gothicX

1. It's easy, you just need to follow the instructions properly. Sadly, not many people are able to do that.

 

2. Which would take time, and work - PCGM rocks so much because it's the fastest site when it comes to uploading. (Massassi is fast too, but you'll need to poke the level posters over IRC..)

 

3. He might be harsh in his comments, but really, what he says is true, no doubt about that. he knows what he says, and he's willing to stand for it. I'm harsh in my comments as well, some people don't mind it, others go like "Wtf omg usuk stfu kthxbai lol".

 

1. I agree and exactly my point. Those that like the site will continue to use it whether authors post screenshots or not.

 

2. Be that as it may, the admins choose to screen files after upload. So since they are doing that anyway...

 

3. The review section definately is blunt and to the point and several of you make a living of finding fault with others work instead of offering constructive crits. That's your choice though.

 

But the one thing that remains constant is this, (I am refering to MP maps) the REAL MAPS are the ones that actually get played on the servers everyday, by the people that play mp. Real maps are not the ones with so much eye candy they are totally unplayable with more than 2 people in the game because fps is non exhistant due to all that "detail" they won't see anyway because they are too busy playing and fighting.

 

You guys that make a living trashing other peoples work in the review section should write some tutorials on the things you see being done wrong and help others learn (like Wedge and Desotros did). If not, your just being a self appointed expert, elitest and whiner.

 

They should make a "museum map" section for the ones that have no framerate due to all the expert detail and put it right under the clan section. Oh wait....that would mean work....lol.

 

just my .002

[Sergio-pcgs]

Darth Kaan, it looks like you were trying to say "just my two cents" numerically by putting the value of two cents in decimal notation. While the notation should be .02 you put .002 which would be 1/5th of a penny. With that aside it seems that towards the end of your last comment you were poking fun at the fact that at pcgamemods we (this is the collective staff and myself) do not like to do work at pcgamemods. I was somewhat amused at your ignorance but I'll let you swell in that as like other things you don't understand what you are saying. GothicX is right, EasyThumbnail is easy to use, just follow the instructions. If a user can do that then it means two things one of they being that the user is competant, and the second that he cares enough about his mod to take screenshots. Honestly how hard is it to resize screenshots? I remember I timed myself with EasyScreenshot and it took me under 5 minutes to complete a task of 20 screenshots. Also note that most of the good mods, are those that come with properly setup screenshots for the site.

 

The sheer fact that you said we should pre screen files is analogous to going up to an engineer working for AMD and saying that the architecture of their chips is flawed and that they should change it to be more like Intel's architecture. I did plenty of time screening files before upload, and it's a pain. If you can't properly place a file up with a good description it reflects poorly on the user, not us. Not to mention the fact that people can get their files up quickly and if someone does screw something up, we can delete it or disable the download.

 

Your opinions on Eldritch are your own, he has submitted content to pcgamemods and he received a rating of about 7.5 for his map. Though all the comments for his map were positive, Eldritch himself said "Astounding that it's a 7.5 and not one negative comment on here." That file can be located here: http://www.pcgamemods.com/2366/ .