Sergio-pcgs Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Hey guys, Sergio from pcgamemods here. I haven't exactly been to current with my own site lately but it seems that some problems are arising. I really don't know how popular pcgamemods is in comparison to other sites, and to be honest I don't really care. Pcgamemods's purpose is to simply serve the community, generating pageviews isn't a priority to me. However I have been reading some comments about pcgamemods, and I would really like to know what I can do to improve upon it. I think a lot of people, including myself, enjoy the instant upload system but I know there are flaws with it. So if you could please be as detailed as possible with your improvement suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. Please, constructive criticism only, I am open to the flaws on my site but be courteous about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialForces Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I like gamemods, the only problem I see with it is jk2.com and jediknightii.net seem to have more files, forums and screenshots... But as far as the file download speed ect. I think its great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Actually, your site is one of my favorites, and I probably frequent it more than others. I like the layout, as things are easy to find, and I like having the rating score right there. I would suspect that it is one of the most popular sites, as I often see it mentioned when people ask where they can download things. I know I always recommend it Probably the only complaint I have is that recently the majority of mods don't have screenshots. This makes it very hard to decide if I actually want to download something, and more often than not I won't. This is compounded by descriptions that are often lacking. IIRC there are some mods with descriptions like, "This is my first skin so be nice plz download". Perhaps you could require a screenshot to submit a mod. Also, it may be handy to have a comments template that people can fill out so that there is enough useful information. Other than that, it is a great site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mknote Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 In my personal opinion, you should ban ALL JA admin mods that come your way. Be a b!!!! if you must. MK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 1. Allow users to sort the current listing by Name, Author, Section, Version, Rank. 2. Make the screenshot submission process easier. Maybe automate the thumbnail process? 3. Move the Player Skins and Weapons sections of JKA to the Models section. Also, I've had issues with the java uploading client. It often hangs when I'm trying to load it up. I'm not sure if it's a problem with my system or something common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kaan Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Since you asked Sergio, I will give my sincere input. There are two main problems: 1. Just playing devils advocate here... Eldritch has a pompous attitude at times which his posts and demeanor reflect. Since he is an admin, it sets a very poor example. So when he corrects others for any reason, some of them are provoked by it. Danny J or yourself never act that way, why do you allow him too? 2. The automatic upload system is very convenient, but a catch 22. Mods of any content can be uploaded without being screened. I think you have seen the problems that can cause albeit, not very often. While I agree that screenshots should be included with any mod, that is my opinion, other authors may feel differently. But, I know from personel experience that the feature for adding them on your site does not work all the time. I’ve also read dozens of posts where authors could not get them to upload, it's not that they don't try or don't want to add them. However, it's a very nice site and service to the community where players have easy access to download mods and authors can easily upload their work for others to enjoy. The design is straightforward and easy to navigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I disagree on your first point. I think Eldritch has been justified in all the actions I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by Axalon ...I would really like to know what I can do to improve upon it... Nice of you to ask! The only problem I've been having is that some of the files are incomplete (bad .zip files)... I wanted to download all the vehicle models that were made for Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy, but most of the files were just file fragments... :/ Maybe if you just had it, somehow, at least check the .zip to make sure it was a valid .zip file after upload? Also, being able to sort the files by name, date, rating, etc. would be cool. Otherwise, excellent site, lots of content I couldn't find elsewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kaan Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by razorace I disagree on your first point. I think Eldritch has been justified in all the actions I've seen. That's cool and I respect your opinion Razorace. The point was not if he is justified or not, it's his method. Personelly I could care less what he does or how he does it. Some on the other hand apparently do. To bad it has to be that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothiX Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 I also disagree with Darth Kaan at his first point, I think Eldritch just is honest, and straight to the point. Even when he was that way to me, at first I felt kind of insulted, but yeah, I eventually figured he was right nontheless. And indeed, I'd love to see a better system for uploading screenshots, combined with a rule that states that screenshots are a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmd Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 only thing i say update is, screenshots, have the mods give screen shots, that is a main factor of will i or wont i dl it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengo Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Demanding a semi-decent description might be worthwhile too, some of them are so lazy its hard to believe. If the descriptions are utterly useless, perhaps moderators could be given the option to replace them with a classic joke of some kind? For example... Watson and Holmes are camping out on a hillside, as part of an elaborate scheme to catch a dangerous villain. Watson: You ever look up at the wonder, the glory of the stars and wonder what it all means? I mean, in the sheer vastness and beauty of the Universe, of eternity which I can look up at right now, here we are. What does it all mean eh Holmes? Holmes: It means Watson that someone has stollen the bloody tent! When I said 'classic' jokes I meant they were like classic cars - really old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 I just had another idea. I suggest you set up an option to only see mods that have been reviewed by staff members. That way you have maintain the quick post times AND allow a some real degree of quality control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kaan Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Originally posted by razorace I just had another idea. I suggest you set up an option to only see mods that have been reviewed by staff members. That way you have maintain the quick post times AND allow a some real degree of quality control. Thats the best idea I have heard yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLord60 Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 I like how PCGAMEMODS.com is set up its easy to get around. The staff are all nice. When I've had problems with people stealing our work, Form AOTCTC, and posting it at other sites such as PCgamemods.com I simply asked them to remove the content and I get no complaints. Eldritch is a very honest person and tells what’s on his mind that is what we need in modding and gaming site community. So if you need any suggestions I can't really offer any, other than please encourage ppl to post screenshots of their downloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Okay, let me say I'm NOT a member of pcgamemods, so if I get any of these facts wrong, please correct me. I hope this is constructive: Suggestions (this is the biggest one): Screen the files you get sent. What I mean by this is that each file should be tested, to make sure it works. This can also allow for the taking of screenshots to post. Rather than let members post whatever files they want and try to moderate them after the fact, do this and it will save on corrupted or duplicate files (or the "makes a new version every 5 minutes"-syndrome). It will also save you having to take down files that are illegitimate. It will even save on server load because you won't have to have tons of files being uploaded at once (since you can have people just send you links to grab the files rather than submitting each one directly to the site server). ---------------------------------------- Require screenshots and full descriptions. Exerpts from the readme (full or close to full) and at least one screenshot (not just a logo or something silly, but an actual pic of the map, or skin in question, properly light balanced so you can actually tell what it is). If people can't be bothered to include screenshots or descriptions you can reject the files. If they simply forget to take a good shot your testers can take them. But the main thing this would do is to stop the constant "dart mall. tis iz mah 1st skin so be kind kthx bye" descriptions. ---------------------------------------- You can make your requirments more stringent (see Lucasfiles.com) or moderately strict (see massassi.net) but those are probably the bare minimum you want to go with (see my comments above). The layout for sites like JK2files.com are rather messy and painful to navigate through, despite the great number of files they have, so I wouldn't suggest copying them (unless you really really want to I suppose). Having file mirrors is nice, but constant redirects, popups and ads everywhere just gets annoying. While I work for LucasFiles (we have our own system, that isn't perfect either, but we're trying), I suggest looking to Massassi.net for ideas. They aren't that big in JA yet, but they seem to have had success with their system in the past. The fact is, now that the SDK is out, the desire for "quantity" of mods for JA is going to shift radically in a short time towards quality and thus you should be more discriminating as to what you post. That's not to say you should crush wannabe mod makers, but rather offer them advice. If their mod doesn't meet certain minimum standards of quality and usability, at least you can show them what they need to improve upon and send them back to the lab to get it right. You don't have to post reviews (that takes even more time) like jk2files or Admiral's Command Chamber at Massassi.net does, but that is another nice idea. ; ) The more info a person can get about a mod before they download it the better. There are just too many mods out there to justify downloading every single one of them. Or if you're like me you download a mod that sounds cool and forget to try it out. Weeks or months later you see it on your hard drive and go "hmmm... now why did I get this again and what is it?" At least if there's a bit of information a person can look up (and not just a big number and one sentence) they can make a better decision and it even helps to promote good mod making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 I'm going to disagree on Kurgan on this. DO NOT PRESCREEN FILES. All, and I mean all the other file servers are having huge backlog problems because of this "screening" and we still aren't seeing any of the filtering out of crappy/stolen material. Heck, lucasfiles and massassi just copies your description word for word if they post it. That's not a problem if they post in a timely manner but they more often than not don't post quickly. I also have another suggestion. If people are really compliaining about crappy/stolen mods, just put in a ratings filter for the menus. That way, if the admins don't get to it first, users can rate the mod very poorly and then filter it out of the menus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothiX Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Yeah, but screenshots aren't always possible, for example, there are still soundmods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Respectfully disagree RA of course. ; ) Yeah, backlogs suck, but what other solution is there? Post everything and then try to sort out the mess later. It's still going to be a lot of work, and stuff will slip through the cracks. Ah well, there you've got two different ways to go about it. gothicx, good point, but in those cases, they could post "sample" sound files you could listen to, like Wes Janson did for his Kel Dor/Zabrak voice enhancement pack. And that's still a small minority of mods, but good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengo Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan Yeah, backlogs suck, but what other solution is there? Post everything and then try to sort out the mess later. It's still going to be a lot of work, and stuff will slip through the cracks. Ah well, there you've got two different ways to go about it. It seems to me there are two seperate schools of thought to go down. Giving editors quick uploading and opening up for some abuse of the system, or having the longer process of verification which can mean a long delay in file posting. I'd say its a matter of preference which the heads of sites go for. Personally I like the mix of both in the community, without any sites with PCGMs cool upload system, editors in the past had to wait an awful long time to see their file anywhere sometimes (sometimes it was mega speedy, Massassi posted one of my levels up about an hour after I sent it in once, that was amazingly cool ). One thing I'd love to see on all the sites is the upload part of the system, just as a method to send the files in for verification. Fileplanet has one too. It's just incredibly hard to get large files emailed in for many people, and some sites seem less than happy to put up files that you send them a link too. I believe such a system is planned at Massassi at the least? That sound sample idea is cool. Immensely open for abuse too with the current system I'd say The way PCGM seems to be used as some kind of distribution network for clan skins for other members of the clan (you'll get like 30 or 40 downloads, sometimes more votes than downloads) is a real pain for everyone, and of course if these are all deleted then its time for major complaints and possibly action against the site. Maybe some kind of clan stuff side server, so if a clan wants to use PCGM to distribute the file to their own guys with other people just a bonus, they can upload it there. If a clan skin/map was found in the main section it could just get moved to the clan files section. I'm not saying all clan stuff is low quality (I remember some rather fine XG and TMBJ maps for example ) but a lot of them are really basic and clearly intended for a very select audience. I'm damn sure someone suggested this idea to me a while ago, though I'm not compeletely sure who... EDIT: Oh Kurgan, was gonna congratulate you on reaching 10,000 posts but you kinda raced past it before I noticed. Congrats a little late! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteShdw Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Also, it may be handy to have a comments template that people can fill out so that there is enough useful information. I like this idea. Having a template might make some mod makers think about their mod more objectively. Hopefully this will also filter out some of the crap that's being posted. And some properly formatted info is always appreciated. Also I'd like to see a disclaimer stating your file posting rules(no pornographic materials, no stolen files etc..) before you post something. That way people who post files that break these rules will have no excuse for posting these files, because they were made aware of these rules beforehand. I like the way you created the picture submission system. After reading through the FAQ I was able to do it, but I can understand some people have trouble with it. I would say, change the method for file uploading or tweak the FAQ some more. And make at least one screenshot for certain catagories(maps, skins, models) mandatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|GG|Carl Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Originally posted by Prime Probably the only complaint I have is that recently the majority of mods don't have screenshots. This makes it very hard to decide if I actually want to download something, and more often than not I won't. This is compounded by descriptions that are often lacking. IIRC there are some mods with descriptions like, "This is my first skin so be nice plz download". This is very true, it took me pretty long time to figure out how to submit screenshots to pcgamemods, an even when you know how t do it, it's kinda frustrating. Especially if you have very many screenshots. I don't like "Easy thumbnails" very much, it's to "complicated" and slow. But anyway, I gotta say that pcgmemods is my favorite JA d/l site. I love that you don't have to wait like 30 days until your file gets posted, here it just takes like 30 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio-pcgs Posted November 28, 2003 Author Share Posted November 28, 2003 Ok I've read through some of the suggestions so I will now post a rebuttle of sorts to them. Screening Files Yes, I understand that screening files makes for better content. That's what I did for a better part of a year with JO, I'd like to think of myself as a veteran of the file community with over 14,000 screenshots to my name. I used to take screenshots manually for everybody, and let me tell you that takes up a lot of time, resulting in delays of uploads. In fact it could generate the almighty backlog which I know modders hate. They simply want their files up as soon as possible, they don't want to wait for it especially if they can set it up themselves (see Simple Solution below).The full description goes a long way too, a lot of these mods being made are by people who make them rather quickly so they really don't care about the description, sad but true. Requiring a full description would just add lots of fluff to the descriptions themselves. Someone who has nothing to say would simply right something like. "Plz download my mod. Um it took me a while to make, I used Radiant to make this. Thanks mom you are awesome!" etc New Screenshot System The easy thumbnails method was the easiest AND cheapest (that being free) method for batch processing of files. I'm sorry that the java client doesn't work for some of you, but there isn't much I can do towards that since it has worked one every computer I have tried out. It is because of this 'partially' working screenshot system that I don't make uploading screenshots mandatory. I may fix this method, during Christmas break as I will have some time to do so. However, I will make an icon to put on the list of files which will indicate whether or not the given mod has screenshots included, I can even make it so the registered users can sort only through files with screenshots. Sorting This was something that I meant to do but never actually got around to it, I think I will do it when I get back to school since all my files are on my server there. It should only take 15 minutes to implement so expect this feature added soon. The moderators/deleting files This mainly goes towards Eldritch since some people don't agree with his screening methods. I spoke to Eldritch on the phone as to clear up any confusion that may have been created over this whole screening process. Basically Eldritch screened files with either questionable content, or stolen content. If you stole somebody's mod or put your name on their mod to make it your own, it was deleted and I fully back him up on that decision. Questionable content however doesn't fair so well. For instance, if there was a marijuana leaf on a skin or a completely named skin of Tavion or Jan, it was deleted for the simple fact that not everybody who goes to pcgamemods is over 18. We don't exactly want to be peddling this sort of content. Now I really never had a problem with it but Eldritch deleted it because he thought it may be inappropriate for some viewers. I do agree with him on that, but I will be posting a poll this week to find out what the community actually wants of 'questionable content'. I honestly appreciate the work that Eldritch and Madeline do, (Madeline handles the UT 2003 section, and does JA work too). Since I know that Eldritch puts in an hour of work a day simply sorting through the files and trying to make pcgamemods's JA section a clean place, I think a lot of modders who have had their content deleted should think about why it was deleted. Yes it is wrong to simply have the files deleted but I will put up a system that when your file does get deleted, you will get a message and the reason why it was, from there you can contact the moderator and speak to him/her about your mod. A simple solution At the beginning of pcgm 2 I had a verification system installed. I took it down since there wasn't a lot of questionable or stolen content to sift through. Now that the community is outlashing towards a lot of the things placed on the site I will put it back up. For those of you who never saw that system, basically the user can upload whatever he wants. When he does the file is declared unverified. When a moderator downloads the file and verifies its content he sets the status to verified meaning that it is what the author says it is. From this, we can allow registered users to basically select that they only want to see verified files this way they don't have to deal with any other files. I know there are other sites to get your JA files at, and honestly that's fine. Different sites support different communities of modders. I was actually thinking of at the beginning of pcgm 2 to make the site sort of elitest. I guess you could say it would be a MIT of mod sites. Only the best mods get in sort of scenario. That of course would leave out the budding modders, but would allow the community to always download the best of the best. It's still a decision I have yet to deal with. I may just split the site into two for that..it's just an idea though so don't worry about it. Anyway I hope I have covered most of what you guys have said, if you have anything else to say about the site and things to improve upon it with please continue to say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Originally posted by Axalon Ok I've read through some of the suggestions so I will now post a rebuttle of sorts to them. Screening Files Yes, I understand that screening files makes for better content. <snip> How about just making sure the .zip file is valid? That shouldn't be too hard. Just have the upload program verify the .zip is a valid .zip and, if not, delete it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 PCGameMods has alot of adverts aswell; they are really annoying please limit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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