four thousand years?!

[bwoolf]

I loved KOTOR, but I did think that the setting conflicted with the environment. What I mean is KOTOR takes place 4,000 years before the first Star Wars. If this is this case, why is there no difference in technology. I understand that technology doesn't necessarily change that much over time, but four thousand years. Jawas still use the same sandcrawlers, blasters exist in all varieties, ships still have all the same capabilities, and many other things. Of course, it would suck not to have a lightsaber, but other changes should have been made. Or maybe, it should have been set a little closer to Episode 1 times - maybe 500 years. I don't want to get too technical but it does take away a little from the believability. Does anyone else have any thoughts?

[Clemme w/Stick]

Four thousand years sounds good to me. If you go to starwars.com and see their character databank and check out Exar Kuns page, you'll notica that his apprentice Ulic Qel-Droma was his apprentice. Once you see that you will want to read the first few lines of Ulics page, which can be found here, and see that he lived 4000 years ago. Since KotOR is set 50 years after Exar Kun, well, then you have about 3950 years before. Ok, so its not exactly 4000 years, but close .

As for the technology, the only difference I see is that they used Swords around Exar Kun and so on, and that the swords had vanished in the movies. Thats the only technology difference I can find, and I dont mind that. I still love the game.

 

-Clemme

[juv3nal]

personal shields have disappeared by the time of the movies, but i don't know if the shields were just a convenient thing to have for the sake of the game or what.

[Sivy]

i see your point bwoolf, technologically it is very close to the movies and being 4000 year before you wouldn't think that would be the case... but who cares? the game kicks arse

[Havoc Stryphe]

There is a simple explanation for the abscence of technology advances in thousands of years:

 

Technology stagnates eventually

 

For example from 1900 - 1950 there were an immense amounts of different advances in technology. from 1950 - 2000 there were alot as well, but most of it was actually just improving upon inventions and technology from the first half of the century.

 

And the Star Wars Universe is not the only universe to display this truth. Look at Star Trek, several hundred years have elapsed in the series since Enterprise to Voyager yet, there are very few true advances in technology.

 

Eventually, we as humans will advance so far that new technologies will become very few and very far apart. There is only so much we are capable of, and even some of that will take immense amounts of financing, world cooperation and vast amounts of energy.

 

So, to look at a universe that has created 'faster-than-light-travel', energy beam weapons, shields, anti-gravitational devices, gravity wells, Artificial intelligence, cybernetic implants etc... it's not hard to imagine that new technological advances would be few and rare.

 

I thought the KOTOR universe displayed a style that was reminiscent of the Star Wars we all now and love and just enough tech changeas to be realistic and accurate!

[Burrie]

For me, the four thousand years before the movies is first-of-all, nothing more than a 'smile and nod' deal. In essence, it might or may not make sense, but it is simply meant to give the authors as much freedom as they can. Every ending, including a Dark Side Ending where the players blows up Coruscant(this is not a spoiler, I haven't even seen the Dark Side ending yet), can be explained in any way. The player can be a padawan and travel without a master because of different rules for the Jedi. Plus, it allows us to battle the Sith in numbers unheard of.

 

(plus, it's just fun to make an important character who will leave an important mark in the Star Wars history)

 

Also, you might be interested to learn that the Republic did undergo a 'Technological Dark Age', so-to-speak, about a thousand years before the movies in the aftermath of the Battle of Ruusan which is the last documented conflict between the Jedi and the Sith. This battle might actually be one of the Jedi's darkest hours, as they totally throw away the Jedi Code and their ideals in the face of a war that might very well lead to their extinction. They ambush and murder Sith without remorse, they enlist children in their army at a very young age(10-15 years old!) to fight in the wars, they murder innocent creatures because they, unknowingly have a negative impact on the wounded. Finally, when Lord Kaan, leader of the Sith, unleashes the powerful Spirit Bomb technique, a large chunk of the Jedi Order(and the Sith, except for Darth Bane) will be trapped in a place that will be known as the Valley of the Jedi(as seen in Jedi Knight and Jedi Outcast). For those who are interested, the Battle of Ruusan is documented in the Jedi vs. Sith comics)

 

After this horrible Sith War, the Jedi Order and the Republic had been on the verge of destruction, with a lot of research and technology was, to put it simply, gone. Basically, both these organisations would very slowly begin to rebuild themselves, creating new laws, building and rediscovering technology, and it would end up with the Republic and Jedi Order from the movies.

[idontlikegeorge]

Yeah, I think it's a good representation of technology. Just because it doesn't look much less advanced, doesn't mean it isn't.

 

For one, blasters of the "modern" Star Wars age have to be much more powerful and more effective then the blaster of the KotOR age. Point: energy shields.

 

If you talk to Larrim in Taris, and ask about energy shields, he will explain how the rise of energy shields in war can make blaster wielding units almost worthless, and is why the use of swords and other melee weapons are in common use for the average soldier.

 

Now, in the movie era of SW (besides the few cases like rebel commandoes using vibro-weapons in close quarters, and mercenaries may use them like in ROTJ), there are no melee weapons in common use, because there are no personal shields in common use. The only reason there wouldn't be any shields in common use, is that the blasters have become more advanced to make shield use either worthless, inefficient, or expensive.

 

 

Also, hyperdrive is obviously advanced. It mentions how most hyperspace travel occurs along charted lanes, and straying off known lanes is risky at best.

 

Whereas, during the galactic civil war, the Rebel's hit-and-fade tactics required them to constantly jump in and out of hyperspace, and being they were often in the Outer Rim, and they most likely had to use unexplored or new routes... if they didn't, then the Imperials could have bottled them up better than the did.

 

 

Anyway, those are just a few examples... like mentioned by others, there are likely some "dark ages" that have happened as well, and also, the whole point of technology improvement, is to make something more efficient and cost-effective.

 

Technological growth would ideally happen best in a free-market environment, whereas the Republic is a massive galactic bureaucracy, with tariffs, taxes, and all that jazz... so there would likely be limits on the technological growth.

 

Not to mention, if nothing is needed, why make more things? They seemed to have enough amnemities... they likely had large information and media networks for communication and entertainment... and they obviously had food production to support planetwide cities.

 

The things that were badly needed, probably had to do with hyperspace travel, and to make that faster, cheaper, and more efficient... but, would likely be one of the hardest things to improve upon, and work with. Other than that, it would be for defense of invading powers... military.

 

Whew, this became a bit of an essay. Sorry.

[eidospsogos]

well, wow. i had alot to say after reading that initial post.

but thanks to Burrie, HavocStryphe(cool name by the way, and i have to appreciate the Cid icon) and idon'tlikegeorge, i think pretty much everything has been covered.

 

i will reiterate, though, that just because certain things don't look less technologically advanced, doesn't mean they aren't. look at the history of firearms in our own culture. i would say that they have not looked THAT much different as they have been improved over the years. but they have improved. and yes this only deals with a few hundred years as opposed to a few thousand. but the idea is that, once forms for something, such as a rifle or a pistol, are established, improvements more often than not deal more with the efficiency of the item in question, and not necessarily it's appearance.

 

about the only thing that seems to change in that aspect, frequently, is transpotation. and i think they did do a very good job of taking the ebon hawk, which appeared to me to be a predecessor of sorts to the millenium falcon, and making it look older than the ship it would be most readily associated with. if you notice also, the sith fighters looked quite different than tie fighters, yet with slight resemblances. and it is easy to see the similarities of the leviathan and imperial battleships/destroyers, yet the latter is much more aerodynamic and streamlined.

 

your droid, as well, did not look as technologically advanced as say r2d2.

 

so personally, all in all, i think they did a pretty good job of giving a somewhat older feel to alot of things. (and of course lightsabers are going to look the same as it is frequently mentioned in the star wars movies, that they are a weapon from a more civilized time, implying that they are dated.)

[lukeiamyourdad]

You also have to understand that the developers wanted the player to feel he's in a Star Wars universe. Without such things as laser weapons, huge and powerful warships, fast starfighters, etc. the player won't feel it's Star Wars. The KOTOR universe would then be too different from the movie ones.

[eidospsogos]

well. i guess sometimes the most simple answer is the best. and that is very true. were everyone restricted to one planet, due to their lack of space travel, and ran around beating each other with sticks, i doubt even the most hardcore star wars fan could logically connect the game with the movies.

[Astrotoy7]

Anyone who has read the comix set in this era will have no problem adjusting their mindset to 4000 before ANH..... A very good example of the difference between the eras is the fact that hyperdrive lanes are only been explored to a very small degree.... hence much of the galaxy is unknown territory......

 

MTFBWYA

[Speedy_Lube]

This is not unlike the problem they have with the prequels. Because they were made 20 years later, they are going to be able to have bigger battles and such. Even though the battles in the original trilogy are obviously meant to have been more important and climactic.

[ManaMana]

I have read this in a Star Wars-book (Translated from Swedish):

 

Hightechnology has been in the galaxy for thousand of years. Civilisations has been born and falled, so both improvements and deprovements (Can you sa that?) has occured.

 

I hope that I have spelled correct!

[Prime]

Remember, up until the Industrial Revolution, technological advancement on Earth had been more or less very slow. Technology such as swords and shields and horses and carts had been used for thousands of years. Styles and little things changed, but the basic designs remained the same.

 

Even with newer technology this happens. Internal combustion engines have come a long way, but their basic design is more or less the same as it was decades ago. Even the basic design of guns is the same. They have become more efficient, but a projectile is still propelled down the barrell. This concept goes back hundreds of years.

 

Actually, our time of leaps in technology and rapid progression is an exception in terms of historical technological advancement. So that being said, I think that KOTOR is certainly a reasonable discription of the history of that universe.

[Echuu Shen-Jon]

There is a technoligy, that could've saved Taris: Planet shields. That's also quite an advance even in 4000 years

[ManaMana]

And...

 

How can you remember ALL that technology? Some must dissapear some time...

[boinga1]

It's very easy just to say, "Who cares, the game's awesome." That's my perspective on it.

 

But, the technology can be justified. We don't know how long the Star Wars universe has had its "futuristic" technology. It could be 3 billion years, for what we know. Given that, 4,000 years really really mong enough to cause huge advancements.

 

We assume based on the technology, that Star Wars people are much smarter than us. However, perhaps their technology has come about from longevity, rather than superior brainpower.

[Prime]

Originally posted by boinga1

But, the technology can be justified. We don't know how long the Star Wars universe has had its "futuristic" technology.

Well, we do know that there has been faster-than-light travel for at least 25,000 years before the Battle of Yavin, since that is when the Republic was formed. So a 4000 year span really is small in the grand scheme of things.

[KakashiSensei]

Actually, the weapon and ship models were way too early for its time. If you read the KOTOR comics, the lightsabers had spikes, loose wires and components, ghetto looking, and were fat and big. The guns looked crude in the comics compared to those in luke's time. And the Leviathan resembles the first designs of star destroyers, seems a little too early considering the warships during Exar Kun's time were mainly rectangular with loose architecture.

[eidospsogos]

well i have to disagree there. the war with exar kun happened only 40 to 50 years before the plotline of KOTOR the game. and here are some links to pictures of kun's lightsaber. doesn't look too different to me.

 

 

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/5147/xrgallry.htm

 

http://www.galacticholonet.com/Weapons/Exar_Kuns_Lightsaber.html

 

and here are a couple of entires from the star wars encyclopedia:

 

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lightsaber returned 7 results on 1 pages.

 

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Archaic Lightsaber

this was the name used by Jedi scholars and historians to denote the first lightsabers ever developed. Unlike the elegant weapons of the Jedi Knights used during the last decades of the Old Republic, the archaic lightsaber was designed as a siege weapon. Using "frozen blaster" technology, these lightsabers required a separate power pack which was often worn on the back. Over the millennia, the Jedi Knights were able to miniaturized most of the components used in the construction of a lightsaber, most notably power sources, to create the simple weapon known to most beings of the modern era.

 

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that entry made a direct reference to the fact that the lightsabers used during the time of the OLD REPUBLIC were different from the lightsabers you were referring too. the obes you are referring to are called frozen blaster technology.

 

defined by the star wars encyclopedia:

 

Frozen Blaster Technology

this was the name given to the theory and technology behind the first lightsabers ever produced in the galaxy. Knowing that laser and blaster weapons could produce coherent bolts of light and energy, the ancient Jedi hoped to "freeze" the energy into a solid blade. These early lightsabers required tremendous amounts of power, which could only be provided by dedicated generators. Thus, these early weapons - known as archaic lightsabers by Jedi scholars - were primarily siege weapons with the power pack strapped to the wielder's back. (PJSB)

 

so there we have what you were mentioning defined and specifically set apart from the "the elegant weapons of the Jedi Knights used during the last decades of the Old Republic."

 

so add this to the fact that a lightsaber hilt of historic note from 50 years prior to this game looked practically no different(except cooler in my opinion) than the ones in the game and i'd say your time reference is alittle off. after all the Old Republic at the time of the game had existed for 25000 years. so maybe at the beginning of the Old Republic you are right. but you are not correct by the time of the game.

 

as far as the star destroyers are concerned they were produced by an artifact of a highly advanced civilization that had caused it's own destruction, they do not fit in to comparisons of other ships as nothing was known of this race until now

[Pnut_Man]

You will notice something between KOTOR and current Star Wars, there's no bacta

[Tito]

No, they're stuck with that silly old Kolto (which seems VERY much like bacta)!

[lil_dude]

the reason the Jawa's use the same sand crawlers is that they got them from the miners, they didn't build them, they got the old ones that were useless to the miners, sorry if someone already said that

[Vestril]

Just reading through this, and I thought I would give my own spin: let's face it, you can say what you will about appearence vs. actual impact of technology, but 4000 years ago we were using crude swords (some of us) and now we're using guns, tanks, airplanes... a LOT changes over 4000 years and the difference in destructive power isn't that great. 4000 years ago a few ships could destroy a planet from orbit. In more *current* Star Wars time period the same is true. Weapons tech hasn't evolved that much. I think the best explanation I read was that technology in their universe has stagnated, and I'd like to throw in an extra spin =P... it's an epic universe!!! I mean Given enough time authors, artists, game designers and whatever else will fill in all 4000 of those years, and you can bet that most of them will be filled with some epic struggle between good an evil. Sure, people might come up with new weapons, but they get lost in the struggle. Plus engineers are undoubtedly too busy keeping themselves alive to design cool stuff.

 

In some ways it's true that war accelerates technology, but on the other hand it can have a stagnating effect too. A Star Wars example would be: soldiers might want better blasters to fight with, so they might encourage the design of better blasters, but if someone designed a weapon which was different from a blaster (no idea how) and had the potential to be more effective, the soldiers might *not* encourage that design. It would challenge their supremacy of battle, force them to learn a new way of fighting. Given the choice the Admirals of the SW universe would keep fighting the battles they are familiar with, and without any sort of 'outside' enemies coming into play, because their universe is so tightly bound together, they're allowed to. Random thought #677

[ob1 kenobi]

I think 4000 years (no comment on this being logical or non-logical, since a lot of points have been mentioned already) is the perfect time for KotOR. This allows space for events of epic proportons to occur in the story without having it coincide with the original triology. Besides, the open ending of the game prevents any sequels from taking place anytime soon after the first story (and I certainly hope there will be more than just a few), so the 4000 year gap allows for a few more history altering events to occur, probably with a few hundred years difference in between to nullify the effects of the previous story. Like Jolee says: "If Darth Malak comes to power we're in for a couple of rough centuries. Eventually things will come around again. But I can't wait that long."

 

And I can't wait for a sequel!