which one?? (JA or JK2)

[JawA J i N]

whihc one is better..?......Jedi Academy of Jedi Outcast? :confused:

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

Originally posted by JawA J i N

whihc one is better..?......Jedi Academy of Jedi Outcast? :confused:

 

Define "better".

[TK-8252]

And watch, this thread will be huge. I bet it.

[StormHammer]

They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Neither is perfect, both are enjoyable. If you haven't tried either, download the demos and give them a whirl. If you're just curious as to other's opinions, I personally prefer Jedi Outcast SP over Jedi Academy SP - largely due to the more cohesive plot and sense of purpose. I do, however, like some of the innovative ideas in Jedi Academy, and would have liked to see them implemented in a better way.

 

At the end of the day, both games are fun to play, and that's all that really matters.

[--ZeeMan--]

Originally posted by StormHammer

They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Neither is perfect, both are enjoyable. If you haven't tried either, download the demos and give them a whirl. If you're just curious as to other's opinions, I personally prefer Jedi Outcast SP over Jedi Academy SP - largely due to the more cohesive plot and sense of purpose. I do, however, like some of the innovative ideas in Jedi Academy, and would have liked to see them implemented in a better way.

 

At the end of the day, both games are fun to play, and that's all that really matters.

 

 

yeah, that's about the intelligent way of putting it storm :-D i prefer sp jo and mp ja

[Kurgan]

In terms of features, options and variety, JA offers more than JK2. For example Siege is completely different from all other gametypes and offers many neat things not found in the previous game. JK2 on the other hand relies on "mods" of previous gametypes like CTY or Holocron, which were incredibly unpopular in the community (though admittedly fun).

 

In terms of technology, JA is an incremental improvement over JK2.

 

In terms of SP variety, playability and length, JA is superior.

 

In terms of mods, JK2 has obviously been around longer so has a few more mods, but JA is gaining steadily and so many mods already are ported over that it's little or no big difference between the two.

 

In terms of editing, mod makers have far more options and features to work with in JA than in JK2. They can do vehicles, scripting and other fun things in MP, plus work with more graphical options for aesthetics. The limits of the previous engine have lessened some too, allowing for more complex scenarios.

 

The SP AI is somewhat improved (IMO) from JK2 to JA. However the bot AI and routing in JA MP are inferior in general to that found in JK2. Of course modders have released fixes for this and are working on improvements for other areas.

 

In terms of numbers of players, it varies with JK2 usually having slightly more to having a lot more on some days. This was not always true, but seems to be true lately.

 

In terms of community, it seems the most popular gametype in both games is FFA. However due to the incredible popularity of the (horrible) admin mods in both communities, I suspect a lot of the FFA servers may in fact be pseudo-"Duel" servers (ie: saber challenges only).

 

However, the "sabers only" thing is much more dominant in the JK2 community right now, whereas JA varies between Duel and Siege as the second largest number of players next to Duel. In JK2 few if any play the other gametypes other than CTF/FFA/Duel, whereas JA has more people playing each one (with the least popular oddly enough being Team FFA).

 

The JA community likes to disable force powers (some or all) but prefer to play with all weapons. The JK2 community by contrast prefers to play with sabers only.

 

Likewise with patches, the JK2 community is divided between a majority that use 1.04 and a sizable minority that uses 1.02. The JA community is overwhelmingly 1.01 patch using.

 

 

Now in terms of subjective stuff:

 

For me, the SP campaign in JA was far far easier than JK2. This to me was a good thing. I hated the frustrating puzzles and my inability to kill enemies with my provided weapons in the first few non-Saber/non-Force levels in JK2. JA was far more reasonable and I could have fun and enjoy myself.

 

Many have complained that the maps and missions in JA though varied, seemed "too short" and the characters and story were "too generic." I didn't mind this so much, but many did. The dark/light "choice" was very simplistic, but at least it was there.

 

To the JK2 players (the ones who apparently favor sabers only), the changes in JA (however slight) in the area of saber combat really pissed them off, so if you don't like things changing, this may be an issue.

 

 

 

Bottom line for me, is that now that I've beaten JK2 in the SP campaign and played the base maps to death, I have moved on and play JA (MP) exlusively. To me it's simply a better game, the next step up. I know many people favor JK2, and perhaps you may find strengths and weaknesses in both games.

[Obi_Kwiet]

Well I think JA might have justified a 20$ dollar expansion pack. Maybe. Its better in *ALMOST* every area, but by hardly any. It has slightly better graphics, but uses the hard ware terribly. (I was able to do full setting for JO on my old P4 1.6 with a Geforce 2 easily but my Athlon 64 3200+ with R9800 pro and 512 or PC 3200 lags horribly on JA's full settings) Also, Raven lied about its features (Raven is deep on my hate list right now) such as new force powers that didn't exist, and only ONE new weapon instead of the two they claimed, (The DL-44 was basically a reskin of the Bryer with no new effects and looks suspiciously like some of the communities work for JO) Also a really pathetic SP, less and shorter, meaningless levels with a really pathetic story line. Re-vamped vehicle control, slightly better animation, slightly better mod support (but no SP source code). So there you have game that by today’s standards is worth 15$ but is selling for 50$ Do your self a favor and get Jo, or UTk4, or Far Cry instead. I've been mad at stupid Raven ever since I got this "Full new Game" I sure ain’t buyin from them any more after they ripped me off on JA.

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

Originally posted by TK-8252

And watch, this thread will be huge. I bet it.

 

All it takes is for Kurgan to post once and that will be true....

 

See what I mean....

[FlashRam]

I'm going to judge the games by BaseJK of each.

 

 

Certain gametypes are impossible to play on basejk of Jedi Academy. For instance, full force saber only dueling. In JK2 this was a dynamic and competitive scene. I don't know of even one basejk full force dueling server in JKA. I don't even know of one full force saber only FFA server on basejk. The gametype is so impossible, everyone who enjoys these gametypes just use mods to make it more like JK2 basejk. Saber only full force CTF, which was a thriving and competitive community in JK2, is totally non-existant in JKA even with mods. On BASEJK this gametype is obviously unplayable, whereas in JK2 it was an extremely active and fun gametype to play, and very well balanced. Basically, any gametype with force enabled but without guns is totally unbalanced and almost impossible to get a kill in. However, JKA full weapon is still a solid gametype, as is saber only no force dueling and ffa, and seige.

 

So let's recap. What moves were taken out in basejka?

 

Kick, Grip Kick, pull kick, pull throw kick, speed rage dfa

 

All effective full force moves which required some measure of skill to master (with speed rage dfa easily being the hardest to master, but extremely powerful in s/o ctf)

 

And what was added?

 

A few kata's that are hardly ever used.

 

BaseJKA is very unbalanced and unplayable in over half of it's gametypes. JK2 was a more balanced, fun, and competitive game, and also offered a wider range of viable gametypes.

[Dr_night]

Originally posted by Egoslav1a

I'm going to judge the games by BaseJK of each.

 

 

Certain gametypes are impossible to play on basejk of Jedi Academy. For instance, full force saber only dueling. In JK2 this was a dynamic and competitive scene. I don't know of even one basejk full force dueling server in JKA. I don't even know of one full force saber only FFA server on basejk. The gametype is so impossible, everyone who enjoys these gametypes just use mods to make it more like JK2 basejk. Saber only full force CTF, which was a thriving and competitive community in JK2, is totally non-existant in JKA even with mods. On BASEJK this gametype is obviously unplayable, whereas in JK2 it was an extremely active and fun gametype to play, and very well balanced. Basically, any gametype with force enabled but without guns is totally unbalanced and almost impossible to get a kill in. However, JKA full weapon is still a solid gametype, as is saber only no force dueling and ffa, and seige.

 

So let's recap. What moves were taken out in basejka?

 

Kick, Grip Kick, pull kick, pull throw kick, speed rage dfa

 

All effective full force moves which required some measure of skill to master (with speed rage dfa easily being the hardest to master, but extremely powerful in s/o ctf)

 

And what was added?

 

A few kata's that are hardly ever used.

 

BaseJKA is very unbalanced and unplayable in over half of it's gametypes. JK2 was a more balanced, fun, and competitive game, and also offered a wider range of viable gametypes.

 

Have you EVER said anything that wasn't pureley based on opinion? If you have, then He** must have froze ove- I mean, I didn't see it.

 

EDIT: wait, I found that you said they removed the kicks and speed rage dfa from jka (thank god) Have you said anything in your life OTHER than that which isn't purley opinion?

[FlashRam]

Saying they removed speed rage dfa is not an opinion ass. If you want to prove me wrong, come into a basejk full force game and try to kill me. After 3 hours i'm sure you will give up.

[acdcfanbill]

jk1

[Kurgan]

LoL, I'm with acdc on this one.

 

 

Actually, default, JK2 and JA are both boring to me.

 

But after tweaking and getting the cvars right they are both quite fun games. I mean, where would I be without my custom bot routes & custom bots, saberdamagescale 2, debugmele 1, full dismemberment, etc?

 

Anyhow the vast majority of people in both communities don't play the games with default settings. I despise the admin mods, and while I strive to use default settings (like default mana regen) I still tweak a few cvars to make it more fun.

 

It's only fair to include the stuff that was going to be part of the game from the beginning but they ran out of time, so in the case of JK2 that's the 1.04 patch, and for JA that's Asteroids, 1.01 patch and the Bonus Mappack.

 

So I judge the game by all the options available and "official" addons, not just how the majority of people like to play or what the default settings are.

 

This argument about "unbalanced" isn't really a good one because you're arguing that sabers only is the way to go, yet this too is an option, and NOT the default one I might add. To some this is only a saber dueling game or a sabers only CTF game. That's fine, play what you like, but you forget about the rest of what the game has to offer.

 

Jedi Master is a lot of fun, so is Holocron, but compared to Siege they're just mutators.

 

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

All it takes is for Kurgan to post once and that will be true....

 

See what I mean....

 

You know me all too well. ; )

[FlashRam]

This argument about "unbalanced" isn't really a good one because you're arguing that sabers only is the way to go, yet this too is an option, and NOT the default one I might add. To some this is only a saber dueling game or a sabers only CTF game. That's fine, play what you like, but you forget about the rest of what the game has to offer.

 

No, i'm not saying s/o is the only way to go. I'm saying I would like for the saber only full force gametypes to be playable. Seriously, you have to see that is a reasonable request for a game....what possible good does it do to take a thriving gametype from a previous game and make it unplayable in the sequal?

[Amidala from Chop Shop]

Originally posted by Egoslav1a

So let's recap. What moves were taken out in basejka?

 

Kick, Grip Kick, pull kick, pull throw kick, speed rage dfa

 

All effective full force moves which required some measure of skill to master (with speed rage dfa easily being the hardest to master, but extremely powerful in s/o ctf)

 

And what was added?

 

A few kata's that are hardly ever used.

 

....what possible good does it do to take a thriving gametype from a previous game and make it unplayable in the sequal?

Except for speed rage dfa, all of the things you listed involve JK2-style flipkicks. After my experience with xMod2, I can speculate why Raven did what they did.

 

You forgot to mention one of the things Raven added to JA that is actually quite popular\useful in CTF: wall-climbing. Raven set it up to have the same double-tap jump as the JK2 flipkicks. I guess they decided that was the most logical way to control wallclimbing, but they had to make a decision: double-tap jump for flipkicks or for wall-climbing, and they decided to use it for wall-climbing (since it was new and cool, and maybe because they didn't realize how important flip-kicking was to a segment of the community). So they commented-out the code for flipkicks (it was still there but dormant. That's why the mod-makers were able to add it back in so quickly).

 

xMod2 and JA+ mod put flipkicks back in. With xMod2, if you did a fast double-tap jump you did a flipkick. If you wanted to wallclimb, you had to hestitate between the first and second tap while running towards a wall, or else you would flipkick the wall instead of climb it.

 

When I put xMod2 on my guns CTF server, the players bitched and bitched that it "messed up" wall-climbing. Even some of the ones that learned to do the xMod2-style wall-climbing with the slower double-tap complained that they didn't like having to switch their wall-climbing technique when going from basejka servers to xMod2 servers. They said they would rather have default wall-climbing and no flipkicks (this is gun CTF) than have to change their wall-climbing technique, so to keep them happy I disabled flipkicks (and they were happier after that). Maybe Raven had the same experience during their testing, and decided it was better to just disable flip-kicks in favor of wall-climbing.

 

Well, Hex eventually came up with a better solution for xMod2.5: if you did a fast double-tap jump in front of a player, you did a flipkick. If you did a fast double-tap jump while running towards a wall, you wall-climbed. That way, you had flipkicks and default wall-climbing. In retrospect, that's what Raven should have done, but that's with the benefit of hindsight.

[Obi_Kwiet]

Yeah I miss old JK1. All those awesome gun packs and levles.... IF it didn't have such 1997 graphis I'd still play it. Looking through the graphics I'd say it's twice as good a JO and 3x as good as JA. If only there was a JK TC....

----->****HINT HINT HINT****<-----

[Neverhoodian]

As far as the basic games go, no mods, they both have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

For those who like engrossing storylines and characters, JO SP is the better of the two. The story is one of the best for a Star Wars game. The levels are well thought out, but frustrating at times due to jump puzzles (*groan*) and switch/key puzzles (*semi-groan*).

 

For those who want Star Wars action and lots of it, JA SP is the way to go. Granted, the plot isn't as good as JO's, but it's decent nonetheless. It reminds you of what you're trying to ultimately achieve as you slash stormtroopers and Dark Jedi. Choosing Force powers and missions gives the game a more open feel, allowing the player more choice. The Light side/Dark side choice, though not as climactic as JK's one, is a nice option to have, allowing the player to, as 8T88 put it, "indulge in their darker side" at the end if they want to. The swoop level alone is well worth playing SP. That level is tons of fun. Depending on personal taste, some may find the last levels a bit disappointing, as there's only saber vs. saber combat rather than saber vs. guns/guns vs. guns as well.

 

As for MP, JA has more variety. With Siege and Power Duel mode, three saber types (as opposed to JO's single saber only) and a wider character selection, JA provides more hours of fun to be had.

 

Of course, that's just out-of-the-box. As for Single Player modding and editing, JO is the best hands-down as of now. There are far more custom SP levels and mods for JO than JA. However, I suspect that will change as JA is still relatively new. Many mappers and modders such as the Dark Forces mod team are working on SP levels that may well become masterpieces. As for MP, JA edges JO out a bit. Many high-quality mods, such as Asteriods and Movie Battles II have either been released already or are on the verge of being released. Of course JO has many good mods as well, (ForceMod II and Movie Battles come to mind) but it's becoming increasingly harder to find players in JO MP anymore.

 

In closing, both games are great in their own ways. I suppose if I had to make a choice, I would go with JA. I really like both of them, though.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet

Well I think JA might have justified a 20$ dollar expansion pack. Maybe. Its better in *ALMOST* every area, but by hardly any. It has slightly better graphics, but uses the hard ware terribly. (I was able to do full setting for JO on my old P4 1.6 with a Geforce 2 easily but my Athlon 64 3200+ with R9800 pro and 512 or PC 3200 lags horribly on JA's full settings)

 

Some of this was due to driver manufacturers taking awhile to release drivers that took advantage of the new stuff, but you're right, obviously they had to release a patch to fix up some of that. It's the same engine, but it's definately been updated.

 

 

Also, Raven lied about its features (Raven is deep on my hate list right now) such as new force powers that didn't exist, and only ONE new weapon instead of the two they claimed, (The DL-44 was basically a reskin of the Bryer with no new effects and looks suspiciously like some of the communities work for JO)

 

First off, they didn't lie. There are actually five new weapons when you get down to it. They removed the Stun Baton (it's still in the game, but only usable with cheats so it doesn't count) and brought in Melee. They replaced the Bryar with BlasTech.

 

Yes, it's merely a model change, but they also slowed down the firing rate and gave it infinite ammo. That's a big change. Sure it would have been nice to have it fire red bolts and have new sound effects, but it's basically a new gun, though it fulfills the same role as the Bryar. I wouldn't read too much into it looking like a community creation. I've compared the models and it's definately different. Remember that JA was in development before most of these mods were created, and what are the odds that two people are going to model their creation on the same Star Wars gun and come up with a similar concept on the same engine?

 

The other new weapons are the two new saber types, which people always forget about.

 

Saberstaff, Dualsabers, Melee, BlasTech, Concussion Rifle. I was sad that the Conc is only found on two maps in the base game, but at least the bonus pack added several maps with it available and any modder can do the same in their own maps.

 

There's actually even more weapons, like the EWEB and Emplaced Gun, but those are for very special cases and not available in all modes, so I won't count them here.

 

As to the "new Force Powers" that is another point where you're confused. See, in MP there are no new powers, that's for sure. The powers are only tweaked a bit from what they were in the JK2 patches.

 

However, where they are NEW is in SP. That's what they meant with new force powers. SP is the primarily selling point of any Star Wars game after all.

 

In JK2 remember you could not use Seeing, Rage, Drain, Absorb or Protect in SP. Plus the "effects" of the powers in JA are spruced up and tweaked (the colored halo around heal, the "bubbles" around Push/Pull, etc).

 

 

Also a really pathetic SP, less and shorter, meaningless levels with a really pathetic story line.

 

The storyline was generic, and many of the levels were short, but there were actually more levels in JA than in JK2. The game was only shorter if you skipped levels (you had the option to skip one level per tier, so you could skip a max of 3 levels IIRC if you chose to).

 

Playing JK2 on "Jedi" difficulty was just right, but JA I had to play on "Jedi Knight" to get a challenge. While they make it less frustrating, giving you more force powers and weapons comes at a price, by making the enemies easier to kill/avoid and easier to stay alive.

 

Re-vamped vehicle control, slightly better animation, slightly better mod support (but no SP source code).

 

Remember that JK2 had no vehicle support in MP. You couldn't even use those emplaced guns. So that was a big step! For SP JK2 had the AT-ST, that was it (and the Emplaced gun if you count that as a vehicle). JA added the Taun Taun, EWEB, Swoops, and the cheat/mod only vehicles like the Rancor, Wampa and the space ships.

 

JK2 had no SP source released either (still hasn't). But with JA you can do SP style stuff in MP, so it's almost as good (Siege takes advantage of this but it could be greatly expanded with some work by modders).

 

So there you have game that by today’s standards is worth 15$ but is selling for 50$ Do your self a favor and get Jo, or UTk4, or Far Cry instead. I've been mad at stupid Raven ever since I got this "Full new Game" I sure ain’t buyin from them any more after they ripped me off on JA.

 

Except in terms of the SP storyline, JA really offers everything JK2 had and more. The fact that it seems rushed obviously weighs against the game, but overall I think it's worth much more than 15$ (if JK2 is $50).

 

If you want to play a SP with a strong central character and nice narrative story and then saber duel until the cows come home, JK2 is more your game, but if you want more of the JK style experience in MP, JA offers far more options and expandability for my money...

 

Just an opinion at the end there. ; )

 

PS: Good insight into the flip kick thing, Amidala.

[FlashRam]

I have seen people complain about kicks and wall climbing as well, since i've never had a problem with either in basejk or the various mods, i've never seen their issue. I wall climb exactly the same in both and never have issues with it.

[TK-8252]

Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet

If only there was a JK TC....

There is! There's a sticky thread about it on the Dark Forces forum, but I'm not going to link to it, because I've been getting a weird trojan from the pop-ups there. Beware!

[Master_Keralys]

Having played both quite extensively (beating repeatedly on Jedi Master, which is the only way I can enjoy JA), here are my thoughts:

 

See what Kurgan said.

 

Seriously, though, JK2 had one of the best plotlines ever for a SW game. That one really does get you involved in the universe, and feels very immersive. However, until the 1.04 patch, it was not as effective for MP. Mind, I like 1.02 way better for SP for almost everything - even now. The whole game just feels very true to the universe. However, it does have a fair number of limitations in the MP engine.

 

JA's storyline, while interesting, was not nearly as engrossing as that of JK2 - and it was rather generic. That aside, though, the levels were well designed (though I would have liked them to be even larger and less linear - well, I'll let bygones be bygones in that case) and varied enough to keep the game interesting. I particularly hated and loved (yes, at the same time) a mission modeled off of the classic short story "The Most Dangerous Game" -

Dosuun for those of you have played it.

 

 

JA MP is far better in terms of balance. Having played a fair amount of saber only both all force and no force, I personally think it's very well executed, despite what many here will comment. All gametypes are far better balanced than would be expected, many better than they were in JK2 SP. Moreover, the addition of Siege is a great idea and it's a blast to play.

[FlashRam]

Having played a fair amount of saber only both all force and no force, I personally think it's very well executed, despite what many here will comment.

 

Clearly you are a clueless newb. I'll just strafe jump around the map draining you if I get injured, now what?

[Obi_Kwiet]

The funny thing is thats not waht they said. They said NEW. Not new to SP. Still think about it. Add added less to the game than Mots did to JK. Not worth 50$, espically when much better make games like UTk4 and BF vietnam sell for 35$. Oh well.0* Waits to buy JK 4* :-P

[Prime]

Originally posted by StormHammer

They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Neither is perfect, both are enjoyable. If you haven't tried either, download the demos and give them a whirl. If you're just curious as to other's opinions, I personally prefer Jedi Outcast SP over Jedi Academy SP - largely due to the more cohesive plot and sense of purpose. I do, however, like some of the innovative ideas in Jedi Academy, and would have liked to see them implemented in a better way.

 

At the end of the day, both games are fun to play, and that's all that really matters.

That pretty much sums it up for me. If a JO-level story appeared in JA, JA would be a hands down winner in my book. As it is, I don't hate the JA story as much as some people...

 

Originally posted by Kurgan

But after tweaking and getting the cvars right they are both quite fun games. I mean, where would I be without my custom bot routes & custom bots, saberdamagescale 2, debugmele 1, full dismemberment, etc?

Tweeks like that really do make a big difference. I love the increased damage chop shop servers...

 

Originally posted by

Amidala from Chop Shop

Even some of the ones that learned to do the xMod2-style wall-climbing with the slower double-tap complained that they didn't like having to switch their wall-climbing technique when going from basejka servers to xMod2 servers. They said they would rather have default wall-climbing and no flipkicks (this is gun CTF) than have to change their wall-climbing technique, so to keep them happy I disabled flipkicks (and they were happier after that).

You would think that they would love it since it is more difficult and thus they can say it requires more mad ski11z...

 

Originally posted by

Neverhoodian

For those who like engrossing storylines and characters, JO SP is the better of the two. The story is one of the best for a Star Wars game. The levels are well thought out, but frustrating at times due to jump puzzles (*groan*) and switch/key puzzles (*semi-groan*).

I think that one of the big reasons why JO seems longer than JA, even with fewer levels, is due to things like this.

 

Originally posted by

Neverhoodian

As for Single Player modding and editing, JO is the best hands-down as of now. There are far more custom SP levels and mods for JO than JA. However, I suspect that will change as JA is still relatively new.

Actually, the vast majority of JO SP custom levels (all the ones that I have tried, which is quite a few) work as-is with JA. Just drop them into the base directory and off you go. Even some of the original JO levels work in JA. Add that to the fact that JO models and skins work in JA as well. So I would say that JA has the advantage in this regard.

 

Originally posted by

Obi_Kwiet

Not worth 50$, espically when much better make games like UTk4 and BF vietnam sell for 35$. Oh well.0* Waits to buy JK 4* :-P

Not worth $50 dollars is of course a matter of opinion. But no one forced anyone to buy JA

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet

The funny thing is thats not waht they said. They said NEW. Not new to SP. Still think about it. Add added less to the game than Mots did to JK. Not worth 50$, espically when much better make games like UTk4 and BF vietnam sell for 35$. Oh well.0* Waits to buy JK 4* :-P

 

IRRC, the website showed only SP screenshots, animations and videos. No multiplayer stuff was shown and only briefly mentioned in a few throwaway spots (describing game modes).

 

The same is true of the game's manual. Only a few pages are devoted to MP and it's very generic information. The bulk of the thing is SP, because that's what the majority of people are going to at least play.

 

The focus (as with all Star Wars games and most video games in general) was clearly on Single Player.

 

And if you were lead to believe there were "new force powers" never before seen Jedi Outcast, I wonder why you never wondered that these powers were never mentioned?

 

As to MotS, I'd say JA added more to JK2 than MotS did to JK1.

 

Remember MotS had only two new game modes (it left out CTF, though a modder re-added it later). One of these was Lightsaber training (a very basic module for sabers only fighting). JA added Siege and PowerDuel, again, while removing some existing game modes. But Siege is so utterly different from anything in JK2 (or the series so far) I think it count for a lot more.

 

MotS added classes, but they were generic, for all game modes (except Lightsaber training). JA's classes were more in number (6 classes per team, 12 per map, 36 used in game) and tailored specifically to the maps they were made for. You had new gadgets, vehicles (previously not usable in MP), etc. MotS had five "new" weapons (rifle scope, remote trigger ability on mines, carb gun, seeker ammo option for the Rail Detonator and flash bombs). No new items. A few new hours (and some old powers were removed). They got rid of Dark Side and Light Side, replacing it with a new generic Force System (which some loved, some hated). New maps, new skins.

 

In terms of stuff like skins and maps, MotS added a lot to JK. But that's to be expected in an expansion pack.

 

What was unusual at the time was that it added gameplay content as well. Most expansions at the time consisted of a dozen Sp maps, a half dozen MP maps and a couple new weapons and a couple new enemies.

 

JA does a lot more with the gameplay, by adding several new fighting styles, weapons, gadgets, vehicles, gametypes (which in and of themselves have a lot of new elements), etc. The SP campaign has a lot more complex things in it than the previous game.

 

Then there's the graphics, lighting, shadows, the animations, sounds, stuff like voicechat, radar, model scaring, etc.

 

Basically on every level something has been changed around, even if a lot is familiar.

 

I guess what it comes down to is "do you like those changes"?

 

As was pointed out numerous times, not every sequel can be a brand new engine with totally different gameplay. Those things take time and money, a lot more than simply improving a game and bringing it to the next level. Call it an expansion pack if that makes you feel better, rather than a sequel, but honestly I don't think you can claim to have been cheated, since it was all laid out ahead of time.