Kale Jerre Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 I won't say Reagan was a bad man and I hate to see anyone die, but there's no way he was a great man (remember the Iran-Contra Affair and Col. Oliver North taking the fall for Reagan over that one?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivy Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by obi-wan13 and now he will spend all eternity with the Master of the Universe. He-man!!?? someone had to it is sad. R.I.P. Ronald Reagan, and at 93 i think he's earned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by Astrotoy7 ah well, im not gonna say too much about "Rocket Ronny", 'cept that at 93, he had a good innings.... mtfbwya When did Rocket Ronny play Cricket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Rythe Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by sabretooth When did Rocket Ronny play Cricket? You really are a special boy arn't you:xp: *Shoots former apprentice for causeing too much attention* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 I always fail to understands why people see regan as a great man. He was an average president as far as america wasconcerned, and his delusional views on communism lead to huge ammounts of suffering for people in many parts of the world (and also set up a lot of the stuff that is coming back to haunt the US right now.) Of course, with the cold war in progress, it is hard to say that anyone would do any better, but i feel that a man who pursued 50s style politics in the 80s, supported dictators, undermined democracies and caused a lot of suffering could hardly be called a great man. He always seemed a bit to simplistic in his views to make a good world leader, but then i guess that that is what americans look for in a good president. oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kale Jerre Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by toms He always seemed a bit to simplistic in his views to make a good world leader, but then i guess that that is what americans look for in a good president. Easy, now! I think you'll find that a lot of Americans will agree with your assessment of Reagan's performance in office, but what many Europeans (and Australians and New Zealanders) fail to realize is that when you make broad generalizations like the statement I quoted you immediately set them against you regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Originally posted by sabretooth When did Rocket Ronny play Cricket? well being from India sabre, you should know this phrase, it means he 'made a high score'.....by reaching such an age....wouldnt you like to score 93 in cricket, just like Tendulkar mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--ZeeMan-- Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 getting back on target: reagan was so popular when he was reelected that he carried 49 out of 50 states. besides nixon and fdr, no president in the last 100 years has accomplished that much of a victory.... yes i can understand how non americans wouldn't really care about his death, but just simply acknowledge the fact that he did contribute to history, say god bless his soul, and move along and thanx for clearing that up astro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boba Rhett Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Check this out. Regan loved jelly beans and in memoriam of him, Jelly Belly just made this: Pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--ZeeMan-- Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 that is cool and now i'm hungry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Rhett, that freaking rocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 It's fine to remember someone fondly, but people shouldn't go overboard with the rose tinted spectacles bit. I'm sure he was a nice guy and did some good things as well as bad. Just keep it in perspective is all... --------------- Gallup poll data suggest that he was roughly as popular as Bill Clinton over time - with President Clinton running slightly higher approval ratings than Reagan during the second half of each man's presidency. And neither ever reached the 90% approval ratings that both George W Bush and his father achieved briefly early in their terms. Economist Mark Weisbrot says the adulation in the wake of Reagan's death is natural. "Past presidents look a lot better when compared to the present," he told BBC News Online. Even Richard Nixon - forced to resign in disgrace - was remembered as a great statesman when he died, rather than as the architect of Watergate, said Mr Weisbrot, of the liberal Center for Economic and Policy Research. But he is unreserved in his own evaluation of Reagan, dismissing his economic policies as "mostly a failure" and accusing him of backing governments that engaged in systematic rape and torture. Reagan promoted an economic theory known as "supply-side economics" - which George Bush senior famously derided as "voodoo economics" when running against Reagan for the Republican presidential nomination in 1980. The theory held that tax cuts for the rich would lead them to save and invest money, leading to increased productivity and lower unemployment. Weak economy "None of this happened," Mr Weisbrot said. "If you look at the 1980s, it was the worst decade of post-World War II growth. "The median wage was flat, and there was a massive redistribution of income, with wealth going to the top one or two percent of the population," he said. He was scathing over the Reagan administration's backing for anti-Communist Guatemalan strongman Efrain Rios Montt, who led the Central American country during some of the worst human rights abuses of its 36-year-long civil war. "Congress required him to certify that [Guatemala] was improving human rights, which he did. Reagan was praising Rios Montt when there were systematic rapes and tortures going on," he said. Other critics have pointed out that - perhaps more mundanely - Reagan's fiscal rhetoric rarely matched his actions. Former Congresswoman Patricia Schroeder still laughs when recalling budget battles with the Reagan White House. "This is a person who said he believed in balanced budgets but ran the biggest deficit in history," she said. "He never produced a balanced budget," the self-described liberal Democrat told BBC News Online. Reagan promised to reduce the size of government - but government spending increased by 25%, adjusted for inflation, on his watch, Timothy Noah wrote in the online journal Slate. And the number of civilian government employees increased slightly, he added. "Fittingly, the Ronald Reagan Building... today houses 5,000 employees and is the largest government building in Washington," he wrote. But even at the time the public rarely blamed him for failing to live up to his words - leading Mrs Schroeder to coin the phrase "Teflon President" to describe him. "No one could believe that he could do anything wrong," she said. "He was like everybody's grandfather - nobody would believe that he would cut student aid or not be for the environment." bbc news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 toms, quoting a bunch of liberal, anti-Reagan sources for opinions on Reagan is like asking Rush Limaugh to assess Clinton's presidency ... But I'm one of the few here (very few if you take out the nonUS people like leXX and Stormie) who were of voting age during the Reagan years. It is hard for any of you to imagine the state the country was in at the time of the 1980 election. Inflation was 15%. interest rates were upwards of 20%, gas prices (inflation corrected) make the current $2 seem cheap, the military was falling apart, morale was at a tremendous low. We, as a nation, believed we couldn't do anything. Reagan turned us into a nation that believed there wasn't anything we couldn't do. I don't really believe that President's own the claims - or blame - to much economic stuff that happens on their watch. But, under his helm, the economy *did* turn around. Inflation dropped to 4%, interest rates fell sharply, jobless rates declined, and on and on. The morale of the country soared, and the military was strengthened. However, there was no line item veto, and the Democrats held a lock on the entire Congress. I remember well that everytime a new bill came through, one that was do some good, there was pork after pork stuck onto it by Democrats as conditional to approval. Then Republicans, not to be outdone at home, stuck there own pork onto it ... and we ended up with bigger and bigger deficits. Look, I don't think Reagan was perfect, but what he did was about trying to make America believe it was great, and to be great. Bush, well ... and Clinton took the economic boom and pulled a Gore (look what I invented) and continued to do what made *him* look good. And this Bush, well ... God Bless Reagan, and God Bless America! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 txa........I just want to hug you. *hug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--ZeeMan-- Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Originally posted by obi-wan13 txa........I just want to hug you. *hug* me too sums up what i tried to get across (but being non voting age at that time seems to hindered my efforts ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Originally posted by txa1265 toms, quoting a bunch of liberal, anti-Reagan sources for opinions on Reagan is like asking Rush Limaugh to assess Clinton's presidency ... I didn't think i was, i thought i was providing a tiny bit of informed opinion that ran counter to the hype. I was just trying to bring a bit of perspective back into things. Reagan's image and legacy seem to have expanded way beyond the actual facts, whatever your point of view. Of course, if you don't want to look beyond the hype, that is fine... Originally posted by txa1265 We, as a nation, believed we couldn't do anything. Reagan turned us into a nation that believed there wasn't anything we couldn't do. Maybe... that's probably why the world is so ****** up right now. Of course, i didn't live in america, but i don't remember noticing a lack of confidence coming out of the US. Originally posted by txa1265 God Bless Reagan, and God Bless America! Precisely the sort of rubbish i was trying to provide a counterpoint to... oh well. sigh. Regan was wonderful, didn't support dictators and saved the world. god bless reagan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--ZeeMan-- Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 yes, but is in a topic dedicating someone really the place to post negative imagery about him? i think that's why everyone's up in arms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Originally posted by toms I didn't think i was, i thought i was providing a tiny bit of informed opinion that ran counter to the hype. Unfortunately, the main media sources are pretty well biased - either liberal (as in BBC, CNN, ABC/NBC/CBS, NYT & most newspapers, NPR) or conservative (FoxNews, most talk radio). That is why I made the comparison - many of these people abhor Reagan and Bush (I & II), are against everything they stand for, and it shows in their work. Which is too bad, it stains their journalistic credibility. Originally posted by toms Precisely the sort of rubbish i was trying to provide a counterpoint to... oh well. sigh. Which was precisely why I put one of these right after that. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legameboy Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 R.I.P.R.R. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by txa1265 Unfortunately, the main media sources are pretty well biased - either liberal (as in BBC, CNN, ABC/NBC/CBS, NYT & most newspapers, NPR) ROFL. ABC/NBC/CBS and CNN are conservative. And Zee, there's nothing wrong with introducing an alternative view even in a dedication thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I don't think CNN is conservative. I think it's more of a liberal station. Not sure about the rest though..... Besides, he forgot to mention to best news network ever, MSNBC. *waits for laughter* No, I kid. The best place to get news is The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. That's were I get my news, and that's where you should get yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boba Rhett Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by InsaneSith ROFL. ABC/NBC/CBS and CNN are conservative. Wow. What kind of powerful glues are you sniffing when watching the news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Boba Rhett Wow. What kind of powerful glues are you sniffing when watching the news? modeling glue, and the kind they use on Joan Rivers to make her wig stick. Compared to most news they're conservative. Hell most of the guests they have on are conservatives defending the Bush admin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 *high fives Rhett* Anywho, I think the one that needs the prayers the most, as someone said earlier, is Mrs. Reagan. I know it is hard for her to cope with all of this, so she's been on my mind all night. *adds her to pray list* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_One Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by obi-wan13 *high fives Rhett* Anywho, I think the one that needs the prayers the most, as someone said earlier, is Mrs. Reagan. I know it is hard for her to cope with all of this, so she's been on my mind all night. *adds her to pray list* If I were you, I'd consider a rephrase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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