Redwing Posted December 26, 2004 Share Posted December 26, 2004 No exam week BD? FYI: Prepare your cliffhangers if so desired. Thread should end VERY soon (if there's no objections) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 We have exams between May and July. There are lots of different exam boards, so depending on who's exam you do you get a different date. About cliffhangers: I nead all overt Non-Republic forces OFF Coruscant. I need to do a time skip at the start of the next thread because I have MAJOR new characters introduced next thread and I'm going to really stir things up. I also specifically need Cracken's lot out of Republic Space and back on their Capital World for this to work. This is going to be BIG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 care to elaborate BD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr. Cracken Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 BD, can you wait until Craken and Irvine have thier little shinding? I'll retreat the Imperial Fleet, but Cracken unfortunatly, has this one last thing to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 BD, care to elaborate? That throws a big monkey wrench into my plans in particular, Scar's plans peripherally. How long is this time skip? How important is it? What, generally, are you intending to do to stir things up (for instance, if you have "OMG BD'S CHARACTERS TOTALLY RUN THE NEW REPUBLIC NOW AND GUESS WHAT FLAX IS KING" some people might have some objections)? Also, it doesn't look like you're setting things up for an interesting cliffhanger - "we win (or lose)" may work for a PtH endpoint, but Cantina endpoints tend to happen on cliffhangers, and time skips happen in the threads themselves I'm whinging because frankly there's a pretty good cliffy opportunity here that I don't want to miss without a good reason (that, and it's from Scar's To Do list that he left me ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Writer Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 I have no cliffs to hang:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 That's because you suck. j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Originally posted by Redwing What, generally, are you intending to do to stir things up (for instance, if you have "OMG BD'S CHARACTERS TOTALLY RUN THE NEW REPUBLIC NOW AND GUESS WHAT FLAX IS KING" some people might have some objections)? Dam you got me! (J/K) FYI: I actually considered having Sellenna as the "evil sister" The plan was for her to seduce poor old Tak, now that her sister's out of the way, and use him to take over the Republic. Once he had re-captured Coruscant Flax would use the massive political clout that gave him to engineer his election, then declare martial law. Then Flax' Agamarian shock troops would sweep across the Galaxy as the spearhead of a New Order. Few would remain to oppose him, only the bravest, including his son. However I decided against that. I really don't want to give this away. I have no problem with Cracken and Ivrine duking it out but I really need everybody who isn't NR off the Planet. This is what I have planned: 1. There will be a meeting of the Jedi Council at the start of the thread, Jammes will be tried as a potential Sith. 2. The Council will then discuss a matter of great importance, they will send Jedi, and others of a mission of grave significance. (This is why I need this thread properly resolved, since I'm going to be giving NR characters an actual quest) 3. There will be a very great disturbance in the Force. 4. A MAJOR new character will be introduced 5. The Galaxy will be changed forever. 6. By this time the Treaty between the NR and the Empire will have been declared void, this will happen in the next few posts. I think everyone would like a little adjustment time. 7. Time skip will be about 2 weeks 8. Have you ever considered that by having each thread so linked to the last you make it virtually impossible for new people to join because the story gets so conveluted. 9. We didn't used to have a cliffhanger every thread. 10. I've already said alot more than I wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 BD by taking control of all the Republic, you're effectively taking control of all the 'Good Guys' who aren't from another dimension. I wouldn't have a problem with this, except your Jedi and Canon characters/organizations all seem to be two things: 1) Extremely militant 2) Always bending to the wishes of the Agamarians. So your #5 really makes me quite nervous, and not in a good way. ESPECIALLY factoring in the time skip, which prevents anyone else who doesn't like where the New Republic is headed from RPing their own characters in the NR government to give their own opinions a voice. (Why do you think when Cracken created the NR peace treaty, the next thread introduced the Imperial Separatists...) On the bright side, you've made me curious enough that I want to see what happens Also, for a current issue: The NR, and the Jedi, seem to be deliberately overlooking the fact that without Cracken's help a huge chunk of the galaxy would still be under Reletha's control, the war might have taken weeks rather than a few days (only hours over Coruscant!) with many times more civilian casualties than the situation now. Yet you have Luke agreeing that he is as black as his father before him. And what the heck are the Jedi doing meeting when war is still going on around them? They'd be out there helping their side, saving the injured, protecting their allies etc...which is what CRACKEN is doing right now (did you miss the entire Imperial Palace sector almost being taken out?), while his "allies" take time off to conspire against him!! (See what I mean about your Canon characters? ) Incidentally if you don't want to cliffhang now, this thread is going to last a fair bit longer (page at least). (It's already the second longest Cantina thread, ever. ) edit: to clarify: I'm on board with your idea, already replanned what I had planned for cliffhanger. Just voicing doubts about plot things here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Writer Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Originally posted by Redwing That's because you suck. j/k To be truthful, it's because my characters aren't important enough... that's why I'm bringing Alyssa in when I get the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jokemaster Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Eh, as long as I'm not stuck I don't really mind. So whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr. Cracken Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 BD, i also am curious on why the REpublic is now hell bent on seeing me die/eliminated. First, if you had a better idea of bringing down Coruscants shields, you should have communiqued it to Cracken. I offered every assistance, yet you refused, ergo, i took things into my own hands. The ends justify the means. Also, i coulda just let the damned ship ram into the planet, causing mroe death and destruction, rather than detonate it as soona s the shields fell. second, if it wasn;t for Cracken and his Super shield of Protection thingie, The imperial palace, and several blocks/layers of Coruscant would have been destroyed, along with NR Forcces. COnsider i saved people also. as many as i killed in the initial assault. and void the treaty, the Imperial Armada is srong enough to hold Coruscant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 OMG! I forgot to write a whole fricking chunk of my post! By the time you read this I will have edited so that the Seperatists will have surrendered. About the whole Agamarian slant thing. That will end this thread. I'm actually trying to find eleven Jedi so that I don't have Flax and Sellenna on the Council. Bear in mind that this and the last thread you haven't been seeing the Republic, but instead the Rim Worlds. Everyone else came up with Neo-Republic. You'll remember I used Rim World Coalition as the title of this organisation. Effectivly it was set up with the sole purpose of defeating the corrupt Republic. Flax became Dictator because it was all going on in his back yard. Had they managed to retreat to Mon Calamari Ackbar would have had all the cloat and Flax would just be another general. Which is what he now is again. So its really a question of "When in Rome." I can promise that there will be no major moves in the time skip. I want to skip specifically to let everything settle back down. The idea is that by the time the next thread starts the Republic will be more or less functioning again, Leia will be back in charge, the Jedi will be just finishing untangling themselves. The "militancy" as you see it stems from a very bad decision that my characters were forced to take way back along. Namely an alliance with the Empire. You accuse me of being out of character, I'm trying very hard to get back into character! You seem to be forgeting that Cracken is a SITH. Now while we are privy to his private thoughts Luke, Flax and everyone else are not. It was hoped that, given his apparent new found hummanity, that he might renounce the dark side. Given his actions over Coruscant this has to be re-evaluated. Originally posted by Cmdr. Cracken The ends justify the means. No they don't. There are many much better ways of doing it. As I said Cracken is a Sith so all his actions have to be seen in that light, given his most recent actions, as a member of the Republic, you would be inclined to think that all his "good" actions were merely a cover for some sinister plot. I used the wrong word ealier. The Republic will disolve the treaty, not break it. There will simply be no diplomatic relationship between Empire and Republic, hostile or peaceful. The Republic will not begin a war, they will simply tell Cracken then the Republic can no longer be alighed with him and to remove his forces from Republic Space with all speed. He should understand that this in no way represents an aggressive move by the Republic. The Republic fully expected Cracken to attack when he returned. To strike both halves of the Republic while they were divided and weak. You have remember that we're dealing with Star Wars here. At no time in recorded history has an actual state of peace existed between the Republic and the Sith. Whenever there was an apparent peace the Sith were always planning the destruction of the Republic. The Republic CANNOT trust Cracken, by nature, especially the Jedi. You seem to forget that the treaty was effectivly forced on the Republic. Cracken's fleet was breathing down their necks and it was basically sign or die. The fact that Cracken could have destroyed the Republic and instead took only half her worlds would suggest he saw advantage in that. At this point I'd like to remind everyone that Cracken Godmoded his way into his position of power, remember the one post war where he basically conquered the whole galaxey. Don't get me wrong, I don't care about that now but I was effectivly railroaded into the treaty, it's not something I would have done willingly. As I said at the top I missed a massive chunk of my post, so it doesn't make much sense, my very bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 As for the Separatists: Well that does make a bit more sense. I'm actually trying to find eleven Jedi so that I don't have Flax and Sellenna on the Council. Find? By that do you mean create new characters? Because the Jedi Council is really "everyone's" territory...and I certainly have some Jedi characters I want to eventually introduce. (Wanted to finish my current characters' storylines first beforehand...) The "militancy" as you see it stems from a very bad decision that my characters were forced to take way back along. Namely an alliance with the Empire. You accuse me of being out of character, I'm trying very hard to get back into character! How exactly does making a treaty with a hated enemy in the name of peace translate to "militancy"? The Republic just hates this damned peace so much that they're itching to start a war? And by "in character" I don't mean "in the ordinary canon/EU situation". What I mean is taking actions that make sense. An alliance with the Empire made sense for the characters involved and you seem to be dissolving it on out-of-character pretexts for the sake of "getting back into character" (read: "getting back to SW normalcy".) An in-character reaction for Jedi would seem to me that they would confront Cracken, their ally, on the terrible thing he just did (as they see it). Not this passive-aggressive "our alliance is over" type stuff. Not without other reasons than you've given them. Plus, how can the Jedi afford NOT to try to redeem Cracken? Frankly he could slaughter the entire Council at this point, and they should know it. (Cracken's demigodlike powers won't last, but the Jedi don't know that.) You seem to be forgeting that Cracken is a SITH. Now while we are privy to his private thoughts Luke, Flax and everyone else are not. It was hoped that, given his apparent new found hummanity, that he might renounce the dark side. Given his actions over Coruscant this has to be re-evaluated. I find it hard to believe that Luke Skywalker would break off all relations with a very powerful, potentially very dangerous Sith Lord who actually has a sense of humanity and a spark of Light in him, and is willing to talk. Again, he'd try to redeem him. (I can fully believe that Taklin Flax would break off all relations, though...) "He's as dark as his father." What? What Cracken did LOOKS LIKE, to an outside observer, as an act designed to take out a deadly enemy as fast as possible, uncaring about the collateral damage of innocents it might cause. Such an act is Grey; for a good cause with bad effects. A Dark act would slaughtering all of Coruscant with, say, orbital bombardment, to eliminate all the Separatists, killing those who surrender, targeting innocents etc. Sure I can see Taklin Flax saying that. But not Luke and the Jedi Council agreeing. I used the wrong word ealier. The Republic will disolve the treaty, not break it. There will simply be no diplomatic relationship between Empire and Republic, hostile or peaceful. You had the Jedi Council make a decision to break off all diplomacy? What?! I'd hope a decision like that would be at least contested! And FYI breaking off a diplomatic relationship automatically puts things in Hostile territory. Plus: Dissolving a treaty is no different from breaking it. At this point I'd like to remind everyone that Cracken Godmoded his way into his position of power, remember the one post war where he basically conquered the whole galaxey. Don't get me wrong, I don't care about that now but I was effectivly railroaded into the treaty, it's not something I would have done willingly. That was a series of posts, actually. (He took over the Outer Rim and Corellia in one post.) And reviewing it, the Republic was roleplayed by you, me, and Deac to have small forces who could hardly stand against Cracken's blitzkrieg attack. I hardly think that's godmoding. It was in fact interesting. You might as well say Thrawn was a godmoded character. Anyone could have stepped in if they didn't like it. They didn't. And "you" weren't railroaded into a treaty, the Republic was (after a fashion). You were privy to Cracken's inner thoughts and knew he wouldn't have destroyed the Republic with his remaining (heavily-damaged-by-Aesir) forces. Frankly some other character could've made a treaty and Flax could've disagreed, maybe had influence enough to split off from the NR. Like what happened when Cracken bullied his will onto the Imperial Remnant. And if you want to say that every major development in an RPG is godmoding, you effectively bar anything from taking place. Including whatever it is you want to do. Finally, that bit has no relevance whatsoever towards the in-character-ness of the 'Good Guys'' actions. Surely there's a more logical alternative to the Jedi acting like paranoid politicians that would achieve the same ends you're looking for here...or it could at least have been RP-ed out. Last question: Why is it that the Jedi Council seem to have missed the fact that Fused Irvine, a terribly powerful creature that slaughtered alot of Jedi last time he was around, is running around the Imperial Palace sector? He just came from devastating a bunch of worlds on his way to Coruscant, surely the Jedi felt those disturbances in the Force. Maybe they ought to try and stop him rather than plotting against Cracken? THEY don't know that Cracken's about to defeat him, just because you may have guessed it! Sorry for the disjointedness in this post, I'm posting while tired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Just wondering: Has Flax given up all intentions of becoming King? I personally still want some more information on this plan/idea of yours BD. Especially since as you say the "galaxy will change forever" because of this idea. This effects essentially everyone here and could possible change or even destroy some of the plots that Red, I, Deac, Cracken (whoever else has a plot idea) have been working on, or it could help those plots along and they could be connected. We definetly need more info there, but also some more info on this great distrubance (is it people die? or something else?) or this mission the Jedi Council is going to send people on. Finding out now can get people to set up Jedi characters early so they have a little history. As far as current NR goes, they are just as bad as the Empire. Actually they seem worse. I will say the worlds that the Empire took from the NR, choose to go. I see the NR renegotiating the Treaty so worlds may freely leave/join either government. Maybe with some economic benefits. Also given that the just finished fighting a civil war and are going to need time (more then a couple of weeks) to recover you do not, and I repeat do not want to tick off your "ally" by breaking your treaty. *Just a side note: Bombs are more effective (aka destructive) if detonated above the ground. It may have been better if the SSD just hit and rammed into the ground (Hard to say since well no place like coruscant exist on Earth) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Originally posted by Admiral *Just a side note: Bombs are more effective (aka destructive) if detonated above the ground. It may have been better if the SSD just hit and rammed into the ground (Hard to say since well no place like coruscant exist on Earth) *Still just a side note: Coruscant has many, many layers. Detonation in sky = one level in the sector/s sprayed with shrapnel. Ram into ground = multiple, possibly dozens of levels in the sector/s obliterated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 As I said Red it is hard to tell. Detonate the ship far enough above ground and you will have little damage. If done at the optimal height, the damage would be significatnly greater. *Don't ask me what that height is though since I have no way of telling* Still the damager should be greater since there is gravity. You have large chunks of SSD falling into the city and spreading outwards and downwards. As the SSD debris can/will take out buildings (some anyways). These buildings fall downards taking out structures below them. Very possibly reaching to Coruscants actual ground if not below. You also have the shockwave of the explosion being able to reach farther and cause even more of this. Now if the SSD hit iniside the devestation would still be great, but it shouldn't be as great. The buildings around the crash would act as a barrier to the rest of the city. It would also be more localized and one could argue that is better for search and rescue. Anyways this is not saying that Cracken did wrong but it could be seen as him trying to get the most bang for his buck so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Well I see what you mean. However it was stated in-thread that the SSD detonated as soon as its nose took out the shields by main force and that chunks were flung into orbit. SSDs are triangular-shaped and are enormous altogether, but the nose is the smallest part, being the point of the triangle; the nose falling would create significantly less damage than the entire ship falling. Still alot, but significantly less than the entire bulk and probably covering less area. The earlier it detonated, the less debris would not go into space. Of course, alot depends on the placement and nature of the explosives. If enough explosives were placed in the nose of the SSD, it's possible that the fragments would have been disintegrated more and caused less damage due to size difference. (Although a higher velocity may have to be taken into account depending on how much force was applied by the explosives...) Really Cracken will have to specify this stuff, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jokemaster Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 We could start it with a possible veto if we don't like it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deac Posted December 29, 2004 Author Share Posted December 29, 2004 Ramming an SSD into Coruscant at any speed would cause massive earthquakes. It's part of Admiral Daala's plan in The Jedi Academy Trilogy, and she's only using an ISD. Now, as the for the aftermath situation, BD, if Flax has found himself leader as the Neo Republic was formed in his backyard, then it would seem best that he would chair the holding of new elections to the senate and they would then decide what changes, if any, are to be done to the exisiting treaty. Revoking it could cause further civil war. As for the problems of the republic being as bad as the empire, the people would most likely readily accept the obvious scapegoat: Reletha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Right, for starters I think Leia should be chairing elections. Hey, actually how does everyone feel about having a sort of election. We could each post a candidate for the Presidency and then vote for who we think would be best to run the Republic. (If we're going to do this I think we should have no two faced characters, we don't want another Palpatine.) I take all your points as valid. I'll edit again, you know what, lets do the council thing now: You want to preview new characters? Well okay. As far as the next thread, fine: 1. A pair of beat up old ISD-Is will arrive in Imperial Space from the direction of the Unknown Regions. 2. Onboard will be 3,000 dark Jedi, predominatly human, who are the result of a project initiated by the Emperor just prior to his death. A hyperspace malfunction caused both ships to get lost and they have only just returned to Imperial Space. 3. The Leader of this group will be a man named Agric Palpatine, a son of the Emperor. One purposfully hidden from Cracken, just as Cracken was hidden from him. You know how the Emperor always liked a backup. 4. Agric makes the usual Sith pitch to Cracken, pointing out that with his Jedi and Cracken's fleet they will be unstopable. 5. The various Jedi have sensed something dark at the edge of known space and it has made everybody a bit jittery. Fortunatly a holocron was unearthed as a result of damage to the Jedo Temple during the fighting. 6. The holocron details a plan made during the darkest days of Darth Malak's War, during which a number of Jedi, perhaps as many a 1,000 (In fact rather less) were cryogenically frozen, for a purpose which is now lost. The Council will send some of its most trusted Jedi, along with some new Republic perosnnel in search of the concealed facility. Before everyone points out the extreme improbability of the facility surviving that long, I have it covered. Naturally, everyone is free to have as many characters as they like in either group. P.S. Thanks for continuing to unwind my knotted up little brain. I'm ashamed to say my general hostility to Scar has really screwed up my character templates. Flax particually is totally out of character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr. Cracken Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 The SSD Vengence was as soon as the lower shield fell, to try to minimuize collateral damage if we had detonated it later. Consider that ramming the SSD into the shields, the ship itself was already disintegrating , about 1/5th of the ship was already destroyed as it was plowing through the shields. Thus, the remaining 4/5th of the super structer was remaining, now, i admit, there is no good way to blow up a ship in upper orbit and NOT have it destroy a good chunk of land underneith it. Thus, we did it high in the atmosphere, creating a larger cone of debrie falling to the planet, dispursing the damage across a wide area than a concentrated area of destruction, which would hav eprobably plowed into the sub levels, causing more structeral damage to the city than the wide spread destruction to only the UPPER LAYER. ALso, explosions in enar zero G enviroments are circles. there fore, i would say out of the 4/5th of super structer left, about 1/2 of that made it to conact the surface, over a VERY LAGE and WIDE area, the other 1/2 is either moving away from Coruscant at high speeds, or now in orbit. Now, if I really wanted to piss off every faction in teh galaxy, that SSD woulda just his the surface, at flank speed, annihilating COruscant. If i was a real Sith Lord, Malacies beam would have killed you all. SITH HAVE NO CARE FOR HUMAN LIFE, ONLY SEE LIFE AS A MEANS TO POWER. Yet Cracken has shown now on two occasions to attempt to preserve life. This could be what Skywalker is looking for, this spark of life and desire to preserve to try to turn Cracken. In now way would he want him dead, because Cracken's mastery over the Force, if turned, could be a powerful Light Jedi, on par with Windu, near the expertise of Yoda. and who wouldn't want that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jokemaster Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Originally posted by BattleDog . I'm ashamed to say my general hostility to Scar has really screwed up my character templates. *Puts on Freud mask* JM/Freud: And how does that make you feel? And Cracken: How bout I have Greer report Cracken's saving lives, and someone else controls his reaction to that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Well, I've done some very rapid re-evaluation. I'm not convinced that you could actually persuade Luke that Cracken could be turned. The impression I initially got from your post was of wide spread devistation. All that aside what do you guys think of my idea. It should be especially interesting for Cracken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Well BD: Are you forgetting how Luke handled Darth Vader? Luke has heard from a Master "Once you start down the Dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny" and seen him proved wrong with his father's redemption. And Vader gave no signs on 'slipping' from the Dark Side as Cracken has. But even if you are right, I'll go out on a limb and say that Luke would at least confront Cracken before forming an opinion as a judge. As for your ideas for next thread, I like them. And the cryogenically frozen Jedi from KotOR 1 time frame I particularly like, since as I've played Jedi in KotOR and I haven't read recent Jedi-related EU from post-RotJ to pre-NJO, it'd be easier to roleplay the KotOR Jedi. The idea of Agric makes sense, especially considering the fact that Palpatine knew about Cracken's little thing about love. Agric may have even been intended partially to ensure that the faint Light tendencies of the elder [?] son weren't...exacerbated in the future. Perhaps he foresaw Cracken as a peacemaker, just as he foresaw that Taklin would kill Cracken before his power 'peaked'...and engineered that to act as the key-in-lock for the Crimson Star's activation. That's all just idle suggestion of course More iffy is his 3000 (!) Dark Jedi, but I'm assuming you have that covered plotwise. (After all, worse has been explained away in this RP before ) An election would be interesting, but how would it be handled? And when (in RPG time)? Would this be a simulation of an actual election in the RPG? BTW: Who is on the Jedi Council you have meeting? I may have read too little EU in recent times (okay, maybe a year or two), but I don't even recognize Kam Solusar. (Are some of the characters "blank" characters, for instance?) A side note: Whatever happens, the nameless assassin guild's priority hit list is going to go through some interesting changes depending on what happens by next thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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