ET Warrior Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 You made up that list of the laws on killing. In Roman civilization it was perfectly acceptable to kill someone if they were your slave, and an emperor could kill whoever he wanted to. This implies that it's not always a linear increase in the amount of killing that society will deem acceptable Abortion IS killing babies! the only difference is its before they were BORN! No, abortion is killing a group of cells that will EVENTUALLY develop into a baby. Difference. Edit - How do you feel about artificial incemination? In those cases they take multiple eggs and fertilize them with multiple sperm, and then they only implant ONE of those fertilized eggs, and either freeze or dispose of the rest. THOSE fertilized eggs are NO DIFFERENT than the fertilized eggs in a mothers body that are going to get aborted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog were killing unborn babies and some criminals now, dont be surprised if later we start killing the handycapped, then the elderly and the list will go on... actually we're going more towards the no longer killing criminals, criminal killing has been happening for a long time, if you don't believe that you are a fool. Abortion is preventing a life, prevention of a life can't equate to murder, because the life has yet to start. Murder is taking away the life of someone who is already alive and living it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Insane sith ,the zygote is living ,how can you say its not ? It is the start of a human and to exterminate the start of a human is to exterminate the human that would have lived a life ,it has human dna ? Why isnt it human ,why isnt it living in your eyes ? God Bless, Reelguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 So you're against say...taking out your appendix? Those cells are very much alive, and they have human DNA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Originally posted by ET Warrior So you're against say...taking out your appendix? Those cells are very much alive, and they have human DNA! No Im not ,because an appendix cant develop into a human being ,a fertilized egg can !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 And I respond to THAT assertion with my quote from earlier in this thread How do you feel about artificial incemination? In those cases they take multiple eggs and fertilize them with multiple sperm, and then they only implant ONE of those fertilized eggs, and either freeze or dispose of the rest. THOSE fertilized eggs are NO DIFFERENT than the fertilized eggs in a mothers body that are going to get aborted, so should they not be thrown away? Should it be required that ALL of them are implanted and brought to term? I added a little to the end of the quote... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Sure . I dont believe in in-vitro fertilization anyway ,so yes they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Originally posted by reelguy227 Insane sith ,the zygote is living ,how can you say its not ? It is the start of a human and to exterminate the start of a human is to exterminate the human that would have lived a life ,it has human dna ? Why isnt it human ,why isnt it living in your eyes ? It might be "living", but it has no thought and doesn't "exist", in terms of conciousness. Hardly human, I would say. And if you keep on talking about abortionists exterminating lives, then why don't you want every female to be pregnant all the time? Both the sex cells and the fertilized egg have absolutely no thought, both can develop into a human, but yet somehow it's right to prevent fertilizing an egg but to kill a fertilized egg is wrong, even though in both cases the being in question would never exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 A zygote is a developing human ,a sperm cell isnt and cant develop into one at all,you need both a sperm and an egg and once they unite the human is starting to be created. We are talking about zygotes here, not sperm or egg cells ,so dont go to the other extreme and bring up sperm and egg cells . So your saying not being consciouss makes you not human ? What about the most brain dead of people or people who are extremely mentally retarded ,they are not technichally consiouss in your terms ,does that make these people not human in your eyes ? They are no different than a zygote then . God Bless, Reelguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Originally posted by reelguy227 Sure . I dont believe in in-vitro fertilization anyway ,so yes they should. So if someone cannot become pregnant through normal means it's tough cookies for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Originally posted by Tyrion It might be "living", but it has no thought and doesn't "exist", in terms of conciousness. Hardly human, I would say. A person in a hospital bet in a coma is uncocence too! is it all right to kill THEM?? just a thought.. PS abortianist call us PROLIFE people "anti abortionists" to make us sound negitive, so we should call PROCHOICE people "ANTI LIFE" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog A person in a hospital bet in a coma is uncocence too! is it all right to kill THEM?? But these people have experienced conciousness already, we're talking about the removal of cells pre-ANY conciousness / awareness. PS abortianist call us PROLIFE people "anti abortionists" to make us sound negitive, so we should call PROCHOICE people "ANTI LIFE" I am VERY MUCH not an anti-life person. I am anti-war, anti-murder, anti-death penalty, anti-killing. So I dont think it would be quite right to call me anti-life if we're going to call people pro-abortion anything else it should be anti-imposingofbeliefsontoothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Ginn Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 But these people have experienced conciousness already, we're talking about the removal of cells pre-ANY conciousness / awareness. So, what do you know about when the fetus actually becomes a fetus? I wanna know when you think it's okay to abort and not to abort. Give me a time frame. Cause i'm not sure when you're thinking a group of cells becomes a fetus. This may sound like i'm being a jerk, but i'm trying not to be. I'm just not sure what time frame you're looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 A zygote is a developing human ,a sperm cell isnt and cant develop into one at all,you need both a sperm and an egg and once they unite the human is starting to be created. We are talking about zygotes here, not sperm or egg cells ,so dont go to the other extreme and bring up sperm and egg cells. But that's not the point. The point is that both of them have no intellegence at all, so what's the difference. The end result is that both don't exist...with the baby aborted before it could think, it's like the parents never concieved. So your saying not being consciouss makes you not human ? What about the most brain dead of people or people who are extremely mentally retarded ,they are not technichally consiouss in your terms ,does that make these people not human in your eyes ? They are no different than a zygote then . I feel somewhat the same way towards extremely mentally retarded people, although those who are that extreme probably wouldn't survive that long...besides, I thought you could get an abortion late in the pregnancy if the doctors found your baby was very mentally ill? I have a pretty mentally retarded cousin by the way(autistic and cannot talk), but I wouldn't want him to die, however I feel it's up to the parent's choice ultimately. A person in a hospital bet in a coma is uncocence too! is it all right to kill THEM?? Like ET said, they have already experienced being concious, and almost always are still thinking inside a coma. If they aren't...usually they are dead anyway. So, what do you know about when the fetus actually becomes a fetus? I wanna know when you think it's okay to abort and not to abort. Give me a time frame. Cause i'm not sure when you're thinking a group of cells becomes a fetus. This may sound like i'm being a jerk, but i'm trying not to be. I'm just not sure what time frame you're looking at. I'm talking before there are brain waves, so usually <12 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Originally posted by Tyrion I'm talking before there are brain waves, so usually <12 weeks. Same here. I think if you cannot make your decision in three months then it should be made for you, and you should have to go through with it, and I agree with Tyrions basic description of level of development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog A person in a hospital bet in a coma is uncocence too! is it all right to kill THEM?? no, because they have a sub-level of conciousness. Read a medical journal my friend. and a zygote is no more advanced than the ebola virus. Infact the ebola virus is more advanced than a zygote, so you're a murderer for inoculating people to prevent them from getting the ebola virus, how dare you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 originally posted by insansith and a zygote is no more advanced than the ebola virus. Infact the ebola virus is more advanced than a zygote, so you're a murderer for inoculating people to prevent them from getting the ebola virus, how dare you. Are you saying that the first cells of an unborn baby is a desiese?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog Are you saying that the first cells of an unborn baby is a desiese?? no, I'm saying that this disease itself is more advanced of a "lifeform" than the zygote, so if you consider destroying a zygote murder, then it's also murder to destroy the ebola virus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Human baby cells are not the same as a desiese! it is a life trying to begin! a diesese is just destructive to the body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog Human baby cells are not the same as a desiese! it is a life trying to begin! a diesese is just destructive to the body A disease is a life trying to begin, too. When you say destructive to the body, though, you realize it's because it has to eat our cells to survive, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Ginn Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 So how long in the pregnancy does it take to know you're pregnant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Originally posted by Feanaro So how long in the pregnancy does it take to know you're pregnant? A day after the egg has been fertilized. You have to use a pregnancy tester, but it isn't excactly rocket science to know to use a tester after you had unprotected sex... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 a virus is not a desease, it's a form of life. a lifeform.. ok it's a lower lifeform, but given the right conditions it can multiply, spread, die. an early fetus can't. .. err.. except dying. the desease you are talking about is only the result of the virus' "life-activity" .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Originally posted by Feanaro So how long in the pregnancy does it take to know you're pregnant? At most it shoudl take a girl a month to realize that she's pregnant. After she misses her first period that's a sign she should maybe look into testing for being pregnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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