Leper Messiah Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 ok ok ok, not all christians but there is a particular kind of christian i cannot stand. Ive got no problem with any who go to church and live their good lives etc all nice and happy with their faith and go around doing no harm to anyone. however what i cannot stand are any, i dont care which branch of christianity they are, catholic, anglican whatever, that come to your door/phone you up/harass you in some other manner about their faith. Who the hell do these people think they are? turning up and saying to some poor person that their way of living is wrong and that the christian way is the right way is downright disgusting. right when youre in the middle of watching a movie too. i have never had any other religion come to my door and tell me that im living life the wrong way, they just let me get on with it which is a very nice arrangement for all concerned. i think if i went to a church and started to say that my way of living is correct and theirs is not (i dont believe that by the way, but equally theirs is not better than mine) id probably be threatened with arrest, but if they come to my door theyve got a perfect right to be here. we live in a society where people are supposed to be free to believe what they want free of harassment or criticism, and certain christians going around telling everyone that theres only one acceptable faith is absolutely unacceptable. to make it totally clear, ive got nothing particular against christianity but i do have a very big problem with those christians who believe theyve got a right to tell everyone else how to live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Bremen Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by Leper Messiah Ive got no problem with any who go to church and live their good lives etc all nice and happy with their faith and go around doing no harm to anyone. Indeed; people of any religion who behave like this receive my support. Originally posted by Leper Messiah i think if i went to a church and started to say that my way of living is correct and theirs is not (i dont believe that by the way, but equally theirs is not better than mine) id probably be threatened with arrest, but if they come to my door theyve got a perfect right to be here. Wrong. They've no right to harass you. If you think you're right in the fact they're harassing you, and you want to do something about it, go for a lawsuit. Sue them, I'm all for it. Originally posted by Leper Messiah to make it totally clear, ive got nothing particular against christianity but i do have a very big problem with those christians who believe theyve got a right to tell everyone else how to live Hah, how many Christians have I seen on the road who paste "Believe in Jesus or burn in Hell for eternity!" on their windows of their cars? How many have actually tried to preach their beliefs to people who make it totally clear they want nothing of the sort? Sad to say, the answer is: plenty, all over the world. The only thing I despise of some (not all) Christians is their inability to respect other's beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by Druid Bremen Wrong. They have no right to be there, if the property is your property, and if you deem it harassment. Sue them, I'm all for it. In Britain if you manhandle them off the premises (i assure you ive met a few who have refused to leave otherwise) you can be arrested, and if you call the police and tell them there are christians at your door that wont go away youll most likely be told to stop wasting their time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Bremen Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by Leper Messiah In Britain if you manhandle them off the premises (i assure you ive met a few who have refused to leave otherwise) you can be arrested, and if you call the police and tell them there are christians at your door that wont go away youll most likely be told to stop wasting their time. Really? Then start an Atheist club or something and start preaching to Christians that their way of life is wrong, that there is no Jesus, then someone'll take you to court. Your argument will be: They do the same thing to us, why can't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by Druid Bremen Really? Then start an Atheist club or something and start preaching to Christians that their way of life is wrong, that there is no Jesus, then someone'll take you to court. Your argument will be: They do the same thing to us, why can't we? ah but you see i wont do that because if they want to be christian they can be christian, im not gonna harass them about it just like i dont want them harassing me about their religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe© Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by Leper Messiah ok ok ok, not all christians but there is a particular kind of christian i cannot stand. Ive got no problem with any who go to church and live their good lives etc all nice and happy with their faith and go around doing no harm to anyone. however what i cannot stand are any, i dont care which branch of christianity they are, catholic, anglican whatever, that come to your door/phone you up/harass you in some other manner about their faith. Who the hell do these people think they are? turning up and saying to some poor person that their way of living is wrong and that the christian way is the right way is downright disgusting. right when youre in the middle of watching a movie too. i have never had any other religion come to my door and tell me that im living life the wrong way, they just let me get on with it which is a very nice arrangement for all concerned. i think if i went to a church and started to say that my way of living is correct and theirs is not (i dont believe that by the way, but equally theirs is not better than mine) id probably be threatened with arrest, but if they come to my door theyve got a perfect right to be here. we live in a society where people are supposed to be free to believe what they want free of harassment or criticism, and certain christians going around telling everyone that theres only one acceptable faith is absolutely unacceptable. to make it totally clear, ive got nothing particular against christianity but i do have a very big problem with those christians who believe theyve got a right to tell everyone else how to live Correction: catholics do not go door to door telling people that Convert or go to hell, is the only option, and if you have had a catholic do that to you, then go to the bishop and he will put a stop to it. I am catholic and if you don't go to church then that is your choice, but alot of people do and they might find this post a little insulting, since you just grouped the whole christian standerd toghather. also that by puting this post up you just did the same thing that the guys that go door to door do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Originally posted by JoeBeforeJedi Correction: catholics do not go door to door telling people that Convert or go to hell, is the only option, and if you have had a catholic do that to you, then go to the bishop and he will put a stop to it. I am catholic and if you don't go to church then that is your choice, but alot of people do and they might find this post a little insulting, since you just grouped the whole christian standerd toghather. also that by puting this post up you just did the same thing that the guys that go door to door do! not so, because ive said nothing about my own beliefs, and i certainly havnt said theyre better than anyone elses. all ive done is establish the problems i have with having people tell me that their way of life is better than mine. i apologise for the reference to catholics if it is indeed true that they dont do these things, but ive had so many visits and calls over time its difficult to keep track, especially wheen they all say much the same thing in different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 In two years I've had precisely two groups stop by my door with religious messages. One time it was a new church that opened in town (Baptists) who gave me a little leaflet about "being saved." They asked me if I went to church, I said yes. They said I was welcome at their's anytime if I wanted, I said thank you and they were on their way. The other time it was some Jehovah's Witnesses. Unfortunately I wasn't really prepared to invite them in and discuss, which could have been interesting, so they just asked me if I thought reading the Bible was a good idea, and I said "sure" so they wished me well and were on their way. Pretty uneventful. As far as doing that, yeah, people make fun of that, and salesmen of any stripe can be annoying. But it's free speech, and you have the option not to answer or to turn them away, just like Telemarketers. Now I can understand harassment and all that, but I haven't experienced it. If somebody is on your property and refuses to leave when asked, then there's a problem. Again, I haven't run into that, but if it does, they should be reported to the authorities and/or to their organization. After all, how many converts are they going to win by being rude and annoying to people? If people want to talk about religion in the public sphere, I say let them. It's part of free speech and freedom of religion. It's good if people can discuss and debate things, and that's not something that needs to be limited to academics. Though I will admit a lot of people are sadly misinformed about things and this can lead to some divisions and misunderstandings between your average Joes and even some preachers. Now some folks like that "Reverend" Phelps really annoy me (did he read that part about praying for sinners and loving your enemies?), but ah well... Unpopular speech is also protected. Though there's some debate over whether that covers "hate speech" (I know Canada has some issues with that, over here it's more over supposed "indecency"). Still, when it comes to private citizens expressing their views, there's a wide latitude. As to door-to-door preachers, some churches basically require people to do a certain amount of door-to-door "missionary" work, and (IIRC) this includes the Latter Day Saints Church (Mormons) and Jehovah's Witnesses (Watchtower). But there are exceptions, like the Baptist guys I mentioned with their new church. I've never seen a catholic group go door to door just for that (unless connected with some charity or something). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerhs Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 coming straight from a christian's point of view, the idea of trying to force religion down someone's throat is completely unbiblical. now, i'm not sure what denomination the relatively few christians are in this forum, but i do know that the bible specifically states that God and God alone can actually convict someone of sin and then save them from it (its in romans ). these people that try to force you to convert are actually being quite disobedient themselves to God's own word. now, there is a difference to those that offer it and those that force it. those that offer it are being used by God to declare the truth (whether or not you believe in my truth). this is also stated directly in scripture. don't forget that these people that try to force you to convert are also showing you exactly what God is not. more often then not, they say something like 'oh, since you're not saved, you're gonna die and go straight to hell'. well, this arguement, although biblically based, is using the concept of fear to drive someone towards God. this is also doesn't line up with the word. i've always found that it is God's love for us that drives us towards him, rather than his anger or our fear of punishment from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbrothers Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Leper Messiah, I understand your point and agree with Kurgan too. I am a Christian and understand that you did not mean to generalize too broadly. As with any group or religion, there are those who are extremists. There are some Christians who do not understand that their actions lend to opinions like yours. A good example is those who are familiar with Jesus' word "Judge not, lest ye be judged." I personally know some who can pick out even the most minimal wrong in another and fail to remember "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." They pick and choose, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 And what's the worst is when some religious person says "you're going to hell if you blah blah..." It also seems that some religious people are very stubborn when debating about issues relating to their belief. Just read some of the threads right here in the Senate Chambers *cough* Abortion *cough* and see how some of the religious are forcing their beliefs on the state. If you are religious, please don't take offense by my post. It's just a general observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOutrider Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by Leper Messiah ok ok ok, not all christians but there is a particular kind of christian i cannot stand. Ive got no problem with any who go to church and live their good lives etc all nice and happy with their faith and go around doing no harm to anyone. however what i cannot stand are any, i dont care which branch of christianity they are, catholic, anglican whatever, that come to your door/phone you up/harass you in some other manner about their faith. Who the hell do these people think they are? turning up and saying to some poor person that their way of living is wrong and that the christian way is the right way is downright disgusting. right when youre in the middle of watching a movie too. i have never had any other religion come to my door and tell me that im living life the wrong way, they just let me get on with it which is a very nice arrangement for all concerned. i think if i went to a church and started to say that my way of living is correct and theirs is not (i dont believe that by the way, but equally theirs is not better than mine) id probably be threatened with arrest, but if they come to my door theyve got a perfect right to be here. we live in a society where people are supposed to be free to believe what they want free of harassment or criticism, and certain christians going around telling everyone that theres only one acceptable faith is absolutely unacceptable. to make it totally clear, ive got nothing particular against christianity but i do have a very big problem with those christians who believe theyve got a right to tell everyone else how to live Im Roman Catholic and my church doesn't go door to door telling people to convert or go to hell. Hey why don't you do some studying before judging peoples religions. You just insulted every Christian on lucasforums by saying that. Not trying to Rant but thats just insulting. Were still friends right:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by TK-8252 If you are religious, please don't take offense by my post. It's just a general observation. If you notice, I didn't mention any religions, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by JediMasterDude You just insulted every Christian on lucasforums by saying that. No he didn't, he only insulted Christians who go door to door trying to convert others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by JediMasterDude Im Roman Catholic and my church doesn't go door to door telling people to convert or go to hell. Hey why don't you do some studying before judging peoples religions. You just insulted every Christian on lucasforums by saying that. Not trying to Rant but thats just insulting. Were still friends right:( I already said if i got it wrong about the Catholics then i apologise. I am a confirmed Catholic (as you might have guessed my faith and i have since parted ways) and i could have sworn i remembered my church doing things like that. it was a long time ago though and they coulda been charity collecting or somethin like that. I didnt insult every christian on the board, but im very much against having the way to live my life dictated to me by any person or religion. also for me to insult you and other christians who dont do what ive described i have to mean offence, i dont so therefore that means that you misunderstood, rather than i insulted you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 There are worse things religious people can do than come to your house and try to talk to you. You could test this by taking your infidel-ass to the middle east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by CapNColostomy There are worse things religious people can do than come to your house and try to talk to you. You could test this by taking your infidel-ass to the middle east. muslims have never hassled me personally in the way christians have. in fact i believe their holy book (Koran?) says in it something to the effect of "to you your religion and to me mine". you only get violence and terrorism cos people manipulate it as others manipulate christianity and before you say that its not the same thing consider that in muslim eyes in the middle east the christian world is waging a war on it, just the same as some in the west believe that muslims are waging a war against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Yes, people are only kidnapped and beheaded because Islam is manipulated. Oh look! Another I hate only Christian based faith in the senate! How novel! To make this a real senate thread though, we need someone to come in and say over half of America is stupid and fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by CapNColostomy Yes, people are only kidnapped and beheaded because Islam is manipulated. those assclowns have nothing to do with the islamic faith, their acts themselves are against islamic law. Every side has extremists. Every side has okay people. But mostly every side sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by CapNColostomy Oh look! Another I hate only Christian based faith in the senate! How novel! To make this a real senate thread though, we need someone to come in and say over half of America is stupid and fat. Stupid Americans Fat Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Writer Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Ok, here's the deal. I'm a Christian and don't go door to door. I understand that there are probably people who claim to be Christians who do so... in fact, I know for sure they do... what I'm questioning is if they truly are. In some cases, I'd say they're not. Out of personal experience, I say that some Mormons claim to be Christians. I had somebody come to my door and do just that. My sister has some Mormon friends, but when she was just getting to know them, they told her they were Christians. My point? I guess it's very simply that the people you are annoyed by may not even be Christians at all. The only reason I'm going to the homes of people I don't know is because of service projects. There's one that my youth group does that we call Rake 'n Love. (Sort of a spin off of Rake 'n Run, if you've ever heard of that.) We're not there to preach. We're there to help people who can't rake their own yards in the fall. Another example: Servant's Camp. We go and help various places that need things done. Again, no preaching involved. Our hard work and kindness are the only things we leave behind. After this, you must think I'm sort of scolding you for what you've said. Let me assure you this is not the case. I'm just showing you the side of Christianity that is not leaning either of the two ways you spoke of. Not preaching, not completely ignoring the needs around us. Hope I've helped. Wildjedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by CapNColostomy Yes, people are only kidnapped and beheaded because Islam is manipulated. I'm so glad that the United States didn't have to endure similar extremist attitude at any point in its development as a democracy. I'm sure xianity wasn't cited as a justification for kidnappings, lynchings, and mutilations bottom of page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Originally posted by wildjedi Ok, here's the deal. I'm a Christian and don't go door to door. I understand that there are probably people who claim to be Christians who do so... in fact, I know for sure they do... what I'm questioning is if they truly are. In some cases, I'd say they're not. Not another "those aren't true christians" argument. Xian denominations have been witnessing and conducting missionary work for centuries. Many denominations from Baptist to Methodist to Lutheran to Catholic to Mormon to Jehovah's Witness. And nearly all those in between. In many cases, these missionaries disrupted and destroyed entire cultures and ways of life through various means. From forcing native and indigenous children to participate in religious indoctrination to trading food and supplies for the same indoctrination. Missionaries have a way of popping up like vultures when they know a given culture needs them the most (famine, war, catastrophe, etc.) then trading their god for aid. Apologists can deny such practices exist, but from the perspective of many indigenous and aboriginal peoples, the only way to feed their family or get medical aid was to listen to some cult leader put down the indigenous worldview in favor for a more accepted cult of christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted November 6, 2004 Author Share Posted November 6, 2004 Originally posted by CapNColostomy Yes, people are only kidnapped and beheaded because Islam is manipulated. Oh look! Another I hate only Christian based faith in the senate! How novel! To make this a real senate thread though, we need someone to come in and say over half of America is stupid and fat. from the muslim perspective in Iraq, the christian world kills indiscriminately by the hundreds. by wildjedi The only reason I'm going to the homes of people I don't know is because of service projects. There's one that my youth group does that we call Rake 'n Love. (Sort of a spin off of Rake 'n Run, if you've ever heard of that.) We're not there to preach. We're there to help people who can't rake their own yards in the fall. when i first read that, the first thing that came to mind was when a door to door salesman (whom i also have a problem with) comes to the door often the first thing he says is "im not selling anything" however i see thats not quite what ur saying, in fact im not sure of the relevance of this example at all as it surely involves being asked to come in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Originally posted by wildjedi My point? I guess it's very simply that the people you are annoyed by may not even be Christians at all. I grow tired of this they're not christian BS. Christianity is about understanding and trying to follow in the path of christ, accepting him as your saviour. When you do that, you are christian. I grow tired of this apologetic BS of "oh they aren't christian, we're not like that we do this, not that" Christians that hate on other christians make me sick. Just like the Muslims that hate on other muslims, and the Jews that hate on other jews. I have yet to see or have a single jew or muslim or buddhist or hindu person go up to another persons, or my door and try to convert them and/or me. It's always christians, they come to the door you tell them you haven't accepted christ as your personal saviour and they argue with you about why you should. I grow weary of having to explain myself to these badgery, annoying pests. If a jew or muslim or buddhist or hindu did it, I'd tell them the same thing. Sure I got things against christians, I have a problem with all religions. But there has only been one religion that comes to my door 4-5 times a week and pesters the hell out of me to accept a person as my saviour and even thrown their holy book at my f**king head. The day a muslim, jew, buddhist or hindu throws a holy book at my head and tries to convert me is the day I make a thread or comment about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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