The role of religion

[TheLiberator34]

After hoping around the debate board the last few weeks, it seems that religion has been connected to quite a few issues in one way or another. Here's my questions to you folks.

1) What is religion to you?

2)What role do you think religion has in society?

 

Discuss and debate as you please. No flame wars though.

[El Sitherino]

Hope, that's all.

[Druid Bremen]

1) Opium of the masses

2) To fill in the gap of what we call the "unknown", or rather, things we don't understand. Something that theists require to learn about morals, whereas atheists do not need anything else except normal education of pure, verifiable facts. Something that theists use to cause something called "holy wars".

[Rogue15]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

Hope, that's all.

 

wow I never thought I'd see the day where i agreed with IS.

[Elijah]

I still don’t understand how 2 out of every 3 Americans are religious and yet the 1 remaining finds his way to these forums and some how convinces people that not believing in a deity is reasonable, or open-minded.

 

1) What is religion to you?

Religion is the realization that you are not a cosmic accident, you are not the final power in your life, and that there is a higher power that you must look to. Yes, its hard for the so called "open minded" people to see, but believing in a God, is about as open minded as you can get. *LET THE WAR BEGIN*

 

 

2)What role do you think religion has in society?

In the case of America, Religion has everything to do in society. It’s the very thing our founding father held on to, and the reason the pilgrims came to this land, for the freedom to worship their God, freely.

[CapNColostomy]

The role of religion? Well that's simple enough. What would all the freshly pubed, and pseudo intellectual types around here have to bitch about, if not for GW Bush and religion? I mean, all you have to do is disagree with these tits to be called "delusional" by the staff here. And I think maybe they need that. Especially after mocking the religious for the benefit of that lame ass Kerrys campaign, and seeing him lose anyway. Especially to a tit like Bush. Makes 'em feel big and smarty pants-like. They need to feel bigger and smarter than everone. I think that religious role is far more important than the role religion has for people who actuallly believe any of it. Religions role is simply to give people something to bitch about. Whichever side you choose.

[Ray Jones]

1) What is religion to you?

a word.

 

2) What role do you think religion has in society?

nowadays it seems to me that it's trendy to say things like "i am a believer". people feel special then, as if they know about the plan. everything is regulated, nice and explainable. plus they can push away responsibility because whatever happens it's just a small part of the big plan. they can feel safe because "the lord" is with them. the big ego push - "i am a good one".

nowadays, religion has lost it's real meaning: praise the god of thunder.

[CapNColostomy]

Yeah. Good reply. So good in fact, that you could replace "the lord" with science, Darwin, or evolution, and essentially say the same thing and still be as equally full of **** as the religious man. And you can still be just as "trendy". How wonderful.

[Ray Jones]

yes, isn't that wonderful? what you try to point out here, is exactly what i try to say.

 

although i cannot say i tend to feel "saved" or "secure" because i'm into the laws of complex numbers or like the concept of 'evolution' nor do i think i am right, a true one and know the plan. of course, thats just me.

[SkinWalker]

I think Zdawg was closest to my opinion... with a few minor exceptions in word usage:

 

1) What is religion to you?

Religion is the belief that you are not a cosmic accident, and the hope that you are not the final power in your life, and a desire that there be a higher power that you must look to (removes personal responsibility for your own life). Yes, its hard for the so called "born again / saved / or true-believer" people to see, but believing in a God, is about as close-minded as you can get. It removes the wonder and magnificance of nature and replaces it with a simple cause: one or more gods did it [note: christianity is but one of perhaps several thousand worldviews, past & present and is not singled out in this post.]

 

 

2)What role do you think religion has in society?

In the case of America, Religion has too much to do with society. It’s the very thing our founding fathers warned against, and the reason the pilgrims came to this land, for the opportunity to escape religious restriction and a church state that went against their worldview.

 

 

There is some interesting evidence that we are hardwired to have religious thought. I'd recommend Pascal Boyer's Religion Explained: the Evolutionary Origins of Religious Thought as a beginning study of the topic. Even though I think that Boyer ultimately fails to live up to the title/sub-title, he raises some interesting points and examines many different forms of religious thought. The questions one can come away with a critical read are satisfying in a way.

 

Another source I'd recommend is Vilayanur S. Ramachandran, a neuroscientist and director of the Center for Brain and Cognition at the University of California. He's done some interesting work on the brain and how people think and has discovered the 'god module,' a region of the brain that affects religious thought. You can read/hear his Reith Lectures here. Fascinating stuff... very little of this has to do with religion, specifically, but the topic does come up. Among his audience (and both ask questions during the Oxford lecture) are Richard Dawkins and David Deutsch.

 

In our own society, governmental, educational, and other secular policies are being dictated by the religiocentric worldview of christianity. A set of literary works, easily verified as having been written by many people with many agendas, is used as the basis of the dictation: the bible.

 

That this bible is 'god-breathed' and inerrant is the lynchpin of their argument. This is why there are so many idiots spouting pseudoscientific and mystical nonsense about "creation" and "Noah's flood" being actual events rather than metaphorical mythology. If it becomes commonly accepted that such stories are not literal (and they are not when one examines original sources of these myths), then the so-called "religious-right" loses it's powerbase in arguments that justify bigotry and discrimination against gays, arguments against abortion, etc., etc.

 

If the the so-called "religious-right" loses cohesion as a group, they lose voting power. They lose control of the nation/government. They lose power. For these pseudochristians, it's not about family values, christian values, WWJD, or any other altruistic notion. It's about obtaining and maintaining power for an elitist few. They dupe the American public, hardwired for religious thought, into believing the opposite.

 

"Hardwired" doesn't mean "unable to think critically." It just means that the easy path is believing that some deity created it all and gives a crap enough about humanity to tell us he did it.

 

Maybe there is a god. I have a hard time believing that if there is, humanity has even the foggiest notion of what it's really like. But I see ample evidence that humanity has a good imagination to make up the "facts."

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by JediLiberator

.

1) What is religion to you?

2)What role do you think religion has in society?

 

 

1) nothing

2) none

 

religion is good for individuals who need something to hope in, for society, its useless because it forces people down roads they might not want to go. religions a matter of choice and when you talk about a religion being a part of a society (be it people as a whole, a nation, a town or a family) you start taking away that choice.

[ckcsaber]

Originally posted by Leper Messiah

1) nothing

2) none

 

religion is good for individuals who need something to hope in, for society, its useless because it forces people down roads they might not want to go. religions a matter of choice and when you talk about a religion being a part of a society (be it people as a whole, a nation, a town or a family) you start taking away that choice.

 

Religion is a part of society. It's been that way for a while.

 

Also, just because it is a part of society doesn't mean it "forces people down roads they want to go on." You said yourself it's a matter of choice.

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by ckcsaber

Religion is a part of society. It's been that way for a while.

 

Also, just because it is a part of society doesn't mean it "forces people down roads they want to go on." You said yourself it's a matter of choice.

 

not when societies force people down the road of a particular religion, i return to what i also said in my post:

 

when you talk about a religion being a part of a society (be it people as a whole, a nation, a town or a family) you start taking away that choice.

 

which you conveniently overlooked

[ckcsaber]

Riiiiight.

 

The fact of the matter is, religion IS a part of society.

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by ckcsaber

Riiiiight.

 

The fact of the matter is, religion IS a part of society.

 

didnt say it wasnt. you seem to think i did, im not really sure why. presumably you want to put some easily defeatable opinion down as mine so just like in your last post you wont have to address my real point, or deal with the fact that you didnt read the opposing argument properly.

 

i was questioning religions right to exist as a force for influencing peoples lives who dont want anything to do with it. Thats why i said religions all very well for individuals but thats how it should stay. thats also not a statement against churches etc people of any given religion are able to congregate united in their faith and rightly so, just as star wars fans can come on this message board and discuss their mutual interest. we dont go around preaching to other sci fi fans that their preferred movie or show is rubbish and they must join our board instead, if we did it'd be pretty darn stupid. yet this is a pretty good analogy for what happens when religion starts assuming a prominent role in society. thats what im opposed to.

 

once again, in case im in any way unclear im NOT saying that religion doesnt exist in society.

[ckcsaber]

Originally posted by Leper Messiah

i was questioning religions right to exist as a force for influencing peoples lives who dont want anything to do with it. Thats why i said religions all very well for individuals but thats how it should stay.

 

So if a concept or a lifestyle is used in a society, you feel that it should only be present to those who follow it and virtually not exist for those who don't follow it?

 

I'd say that would be impossible. This is not just regarding religion. People have a choice whether to ignore something or not. They have a choice to believe or disbelieve.

 

I turn on the TV and see a politician spouting out ideals and opinions I don't agree with. So what. I can't stop myself from hearing what he has to say, but that does not make me agree with his views.

 

You see, people are allowed to express and talk about their opinions/faith/beliefs in America.

 

didnt say it wasnt. you seem to think i did, im not really sure why. presumably you want to put some easily defeatable opinion down as mine so just like in your last post you wont have to address my real point, or deal with the fact that you didnt read the opposing argument properly.

 

Lemme quote you.

 

and when you talk about a religion being a part of a society (be it people as a whole, a nation, a town or a family) you start taking away that choice.

 

"When you walk about a religion being a part of a society" kind of gives me the impression that you don't think it already is a part of society.

[Kain]

(without reading any of the thread)

 

The role of religion is an archaic and outdated one without any use in modern society other than a means to an end and should be utterly disbanned.

[TheLiberator34]

A lot of atheist in the thread, hmm.. Come on! There has to be someone here with a counterpoint. Where'd all the theists go? Well until they show up I take a swing. Religion is often one of the few ways people are taught morals. If religion weren't on that job, how would society teach its members morality in a way that's sure to reach them? Keep up the debate folks!

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by ckcsaber

You see, people are allowed to express and talk about their opinions/faith/beliefs in America.

 

overlooking the fact i dont live in America,

 

you have a valid point in so much as it is in all likelyhood impossible to avoid different religious ideals in just about all societies, but that once again is not quite what im saying. we've established that we both agree that religion is a part of society, and ive established that a prominent role for religion whereby it might require or put pressure on individuals to follow it is a role religion should not have. is this where your disagreement with my opinion comes in because ill admit im not quite following what exactly the nature of your disagreement actually is.

 

"When you walk about a religion being a part of a society" kind of gives me the impression that you don't think it already is a part of society.

 

"gives you the impression" is hardly a firm basis for the conclusion you drew from it. however i should have been more specific and stated it was an important or prominent part in society that i was referring to.

[ckcsaber]

Originally posted by Leper Messiah

overlooking the fact i dont live in America,

 

you have a valid point in so much as it is in all likelyhood impossible to avoid different religious ideals in just about all societies, but that once again is not quite what im saying. we've established that we both agree that religion is a part of society, and ive established that a prominent role for religion whereby it might require or put pressure on individuals to follow it is a role religion should not have. is this where your disagreement with my opinion comes in because ill admit im not quite following what exactly the nature of your disagreement actually is.

 

Bleh. Excuse my ignorance. I didn't know you lived outside the U.S.

 

Anyways, I'm trying to say that its prominence can't just be pushed aside. It's most likely going to stay the way it its. In America I don't really see people having much pressure put on them regarding faith anyways. There will always be a certain "pressure" put on people regarding most things. Political viewpoints, trends, etc..

 

This is all just regarding the U.S. of course. Other countries are very different. Most of my family (Christian btw) is living in Indonesia, a huge Muslim country. Very often they have had Islam "forced" upon them. Not to rag on Islam, but thats just the way it is.

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by ckcsaber

Bleh. Excuse my ignorance. I didn't know you lived outside the U.S.

 

Anyways, I'm trying to say that its prominence can't just be pushed aside. It's most likely going to stay the way it its. In America I don't really see people having much pressure put on them regarding faith anyways. There will always be a certain "pressure" put on people regarding most things. Political viewpoints, trends, etc..

 

This is all just regarding the U.S. of course. Other countries are very different. Most of my family (Christian btw) is living in Indonesia, a huge Muslim country. Very often they have had Islam "forced" upon them. Not to rag on Islam, but thats just the way it is.

 

indeed i also didnt say that religion was particularly prominent at this time in the society we live in (im UK btw) i know thats not the case everywhere though.

 

anyway i believe ive done enough to establish my opinion on the subject now

[Spider AL]

Society should be governed in an entirely secular manner, because good government should be based entirely upon cold, hard fact, reason and logic.

 

The role of religion in society is the role of any system of morality-stroke-hobby, specifically, it should be there for people if they want it, but it should not be compulsory, nor should it have a direct effect on how a country is run.

 

People can attain spiritual fulfilment and happiness through religion, yes. But that's their choice, not everyone can get the same result through making the same choice.

[lukeiamyourdad]

One of the principles of democracy is seperation of church and state. Without it, I cannot see a good democracy.

 

What I hate to is the country that claims being a beacon of democracy have their "religious" men telling the populace who to vote for.

[kipperthefrog]

QUESTION 1:what is religion??

 

Rilegion could be 2 possible things:

 

1) a true meaning to life most people havent gotten in on yet...

 

2) a story aincent poor weak miserable peasants made up to give themselves false hope...

 

QUESTION 2: what has religion done for society??

 

religion has bult civilization to where we can live with each other long enough to develop into what man is today!

 

in other words, if we didnt believe there was a god who would punish us for stealing and killing our fellow human beings, we would not have lived long enough to make TOOLS! does anyone get me here???

[CapNColostomy]

So what are you two (Spider and luke) saying? That religious people shouldn't be allowed to vote, or that their vote shouldn't count? Seems to me those are the only ways to keep religion out of politics so government could "be based entirely upon cold, hard fact, reason and logic." If religious people are the majority of the vote, then it stands to reason they'll elect officials they deem religious, and vote for or against laws they deem religious or not, doesn't it?