Postlude to Holocaust Part VI: Strangers (Discussion Thread)

[Redwing]

BD, I think you missed the part where any arrow can easily be blocked with a conjured force shield/that nifty armor the Aesir/Guy have and almost everyone is wearing.

 

I doubt the group would be giving up any high tech equipment, especially to people they can't necessarily trust, when so much is at stake. If the Agamarians don't like that? Too bad. How a few thousand/hundred thousand/million/billion quirky indigenous people feel is irrelevant when you balance it against "we need to save our universe".

 

Maybe if the Agamarians (IS there one?) actually posed a good reason, they could be convinced to leave it behind. Else...

 

Also: The Agamarians engaging the group in single combat would be a stunningly good way to slaughter themselves, if the group has magic/Futhark available to them, whether or not the Agamarians are "heroic" or not.

[BattleDog]

Okay, well first off lets point out that the group can trust the Agamari.

 

So, good reasons:

 

1. Most of it is dead weight and useless.

 

2. They'll have to carry it.

 

3. No one is giving them extra pack animals for the purpose.

 

4. The chance of the group getting ambushed and lossing at least some of it is high.

 

5. If they don't leave it behind they won't be getting much help, which they will need. Guides at the very least. Not to mention sacrificial animals.

 

6. They can't land North of Tol Dura because the no tech mojo gets stronger nearer the polls. So they are looking at a hike to fortress and then weeks on foot further north, ergo they need good horses for the humans at least.

 

7. Admiral can confirm this, nay or yay, but if I were Loki I would use the Tarsai against the Agamari, ergo anything they loose will end up in Loki's hands and I doubt they want that.

[Admiral Odin]

BD: Not necessarily (from the groups view point). There is nothing to say that Hal is in charge or even alive after twenty years. And Loki's shape changing ablitiy will make them suspicous anyways (Loki would have a lot of fun impersonating Hal btw).

 

I'm a little curious. How would the Agamari know the group gave up all their high tech weapons in the first place (do a strip search)? Also why do they need sacrificial animals?

 

And just some additional points:

 

1. The Group has pack creatures already that do more then just carry luggage.

 

2. The Asgardried may not be able to, but a Drake can land to the North and each could easily carry a number of group members.

 

3. Any Aesirian technology will only work for an Aesir or someone they designated. If it falls into the hands of an enemy it would destroy itself, so the threat of it falling into enemy hands doesn't really worry the Aesir.

 

4.By the time the group goes to Tarsis there will roughly be less than two years left. The group is going to risk far more than in previous threads.

 

5. Loki will arm the Tarsai with what we would consider modern weapons (aka. Guns, bombs etc). Eventaully though Loki would send the Fire Jotuns to scorch the planet.

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and just few other things:

 

1. I'm really toying with the idea of having the Asgardried stay in orbit and have the drakes ferry the group to the planet.

 

2. At Midgard it was a 100+ to 1 so the group facing 10/20 to 1 is a great imporvement for them not to mention the added bonus that once a Tasia is killed they stay dead.

 

BD: Ya I picked up on the hospitality thing. The Aesir have a similar belief in that guests must be treated very well (not because they could be a god). In PTH you see what happens when the Aesir don't see the person as a true guest (take Allessa on Midgard, there she was a tresspasser and normally would have been executed, actually the star destroyer would have been destoryed before she ever got to the planet). In Cantina on Godsheim station you see more proper treatment.

[BattleDog]

Okay, well first off no matter who was in charge the group could trust the Agamari. Thats not to say the Agamari wouldn't try to kill them but they'd be totally honest about it.

 

Second, the Agamari would ask for Vidar's word on behalf of the group. If any of the group transgressed they would expect Vidar to forfeit his life. Or they could ask for the word of each member of the group individually, in which case if they broke their word they would forfeit their own life. I'm guesing that Vidar would go with two, as he doesn't trust some of the group.

 

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1. They do? Great. Do they have mounts too because The Agamari aren't exactly going to be lending out swaybacks. We're talking full on 16-18 warhorses, fully trained and very well looked after.

 

2. I have things planned that would make that decidedly unpleasent, read fatal, for the group and not a lot of fun for the Drakes either. I've seen the things bleed so I'm assuming that if you get under the scales they can be hurt if not killed.

 

3. Yeah, but its still gone. Better to leave it at home.

 

4. 260,000 arrows is a big risk, I refuse to believe that the group could block all of them. I mentioned before these aren't conventional arrows, I'd reckon on punching through mithril plate at a hundred paces.

 

5. Well he could try, sorta like giving Plains Indians machine guns and assault rifles to fight the 7th. Either they'll break or all the Indians will get caught in their own crossfire.

 

---------------------------------------------

 

1. Read above.

 

2. I thought it was 35,000 to 1:) At Midgard there were no flaming arrows.

 

Final note: I figured you had picked up on it, just wanted to make sure.

[Admiral Odin]

BD: You missed the point entirely. Loki as a master of deception and lies could easily personate an Agamari and then lead the group into a trap. Hence the group cannot trust the Agamari. Idun could penetrate Loki's disguise if she got near him. So if you want the group to trust the Agamari they are going have to pass Idun's approval and since she would need to get near them either two things would need to be done: 1. The Aesir put a sword tip next to the Agamari's neck ready to kill him/her as Idun test them. 2. The Agamari goes to Idun unarmed.

 

As far as a group member giving up their life if they have technology discovered on them. The Agamari can expect that all they want but it won't happen, if the group believes it is necessary to carry a piece of technology then they will regardless of how insulted the Agamari become. They are trying to save a galaxy on the verge of destuction being polite/diplomatic won't be a concern form them.

 

1. I thought you may have guessed the creatures would be the drakes. Needless to say no mount that the Agamari would provided would be able to be worn on a Drake.

 

2. I doubt that for reason we have already stated. Mainly since you don't know the ablities of a Drake where I do. As I've said multiple times Drakes are immortal, they can bleed since they are alive and have blood but it won't hurt them. Not to mention getting under their scales is nearly impossible to begin with.

 

3. Doesn't matter to much when you have more weapons then people. Although this doesn't matter to much since I've already said the Aesir won't be taking their high tech items. This mainly centers around Guy.

 

4. No it isn't. For an arrow to be dangerous it has to reach the group which they wouldn't. Idun can create a dome shield around the group where the arrows wouldn't penetrate first off. And how are these arrows not conventional? Until you tell me I can't tell you when they would be able to pierce Mithril.

 

5. The 7th what? Also with only a little training the Tarsai should be able to grasp how a gun works. Same for the plain indians.

 

The Aesir were also denied the ablitiy to use the Futhark at Midgard as well. I get the impression that you want the group to be totally dependent on the Agamari for this portion of the quest? If this is the case it wont' happen.

[BattleDog]

First off, I get the Loki thing, all I'm saying is that the group can trust the Agamari. As far as holding a sword to someone's throat, well I think they'd go in for a trade. Vidar can hold a sword to Hal's throat but only if Drago can hold a sword to Heimdall's throat.

 

The tech point, well the best way to avoid that is just not have it come up. What the Agamari don't see won't upset them. Don't upset them.

 

1. Point taken but the group may well have to go places the Drakes can't really follow. Also if the group flys they'll miss all the stuff I have lined up and whats the point of a quest with no danger.

 

2. Sorry, I wrote that is less than perfect English. It would be almost certainly fatal for the group, the Drakes might get the odd nick under the scales. Use your imagination, its not much of a leap but I just plain don't want to give it away. Sorry.

 

3. Well, yeah, okay. What if it was Guy's favorite do-hicky? The one his mother gave him?

 

4. Well I still don't but indestructable shields, from anything less than Gods that it is, so I assume that put under enough pressure the shield would fail. Seems reasonable, not that I'm trying to force you into being resonable.

 

5. 7th Cavalry? The Little Big Horn? I meant that if you got the Indians to use those weapons with Indian tactics you might find a lot of accidental blue on blue.

 

About the arrows:

 

On pure mechanics you're looking at a wooden longbow with a draw weight of around 70-90 pounds. The arrow is 28 inches longs, weighs around 1 1/4 pounds and has a bodkin head.

 

So its pretty good for starters. Here's the thing, the arrows' heads are made of Agamarian Steel, which is the same light, hard metal used in their armour. Now you may recall that an Agamarian sword can punch through mithril in certain curcumstances. Added to this, when fired the arrow is wrapped in energy of an indeterminate type which is however manifestly similar to that which the swords eminate when facing magic.

 

Now I say 100 paces becuase when the group was attacked in the last thread I said that I rated Agamarian Steel as 75% the strength of mithril at about double the weight for the same piece of armour. The arrow will puch through Agamarian plate armour at 200 paces, about the same as a real longbow for steel. That means a hit on mithril at 150 paces but I'm being generous and saying 100 paces sure hit.

 

So it has less to do with what you say about your armour and more to do with how I rate my armour vs yours.

 

Admiral, your giving me arthritus:D

[Admiral Odin]

baby.

 

BD, that is why we talk about the plot so things like that don't happen. What I have noticed is that we are basically going around in circles and really not making an progress.

 

So the sequence for the begining of the quest I see as follows.

 

1. The group lands on the planet either by riding the Drakes down, or the Asgardried.

 

2. Shortly after set down the map will point them towards the fortress (Dura?) and the group begins heading in that direction.

 

3. As the group walks they encounter a raiding party at which point an Agamari patrol helps them, and then escorts them to the fortress

 

4. At the fortress they are reunited with Hal, Allessa, and Drago.At which point they are asked to surrender any high tech weapons they may be carrying. The group will want to know why (for obvious reasons). The problem here being Guy (as I mentioned the Aesir will not be carrying high tech weapons). Remember Guy is blind and uses his spider contraption for transportation etc. I think it is reasonable to allows an exception for Guy at least to carry some of his equipment.

 

5. Hal, Allessa, Drago and any guide are tested to make sure they are not Loki, Hal give Vidar that sword you mentioned. Shortly after that they set off...

 

Is that alright with everyone?

 

And those arrows I assume are enchanted by some means?

[BattleDog]

1. Yeah, fine.

 

2. Tol Dura, they could just head north, they'll see the fortress a way off.

 

3. Think of it more like a hunting party or patrol in force but yes. They'll be helped by an Agamarian patrol in force.

 

4. Well he'll have to argue his case but I think someone might speak up for him. Although they may have less sypathy than you expect. You'll see why when the group gets there.

 

5. Again, basically yes, though those might not be the ones they'll want to test.

 

The arrows? I have no idea how they work.

 

Now that Deac it back I ask again how he feels about Orthos having one leg.

 

This is all good stuff for when I write my book. I admit it, I'm using you guys to develop my characters. Notice how I slipped another two in in my last couple of posts?

[Kuuki]

and what of the other characters?

 

how would they be treated (more or less detail)?

[Admiral Odin]

BD: Why do I think a few of us are doing that to some degree or another.

[Kuuki]

*uses F. Irvine as a ginnie pig for various baddies for Forgotten angels*

 

not to mention Forgotten being the book

[jokemaster]

Speaking of Forgotten angels......

*tries to shock Scar with cattle prod*

*notices it's out of batteries*

*Whacks him on the head with it*

GET MOVING ON THAT THREAD

[BattleDog]

Scar: Huh? Others? Everyone will be treated more or less the same, can you be more specific?

 

Admiral: Do you have a book in mind? In case you hadn't noticed mine is going to be a dark/age fantasy trilogy. Thats if I don't have to pad the plot too much.

[Kuuki]

jm: i sorta went to actually making an actual story out of it (which i planed in the beginning *shrug*)

havent gotten far with it, being usually busy and the lack of there of motivation to put in a few sentences after sitting in the hot hot hot sun all day, wanting nothing more then AC

 

BD: no i just sense from previous OOC encounters between you and I, which overflow into thread, i feel like automatically my character(s) are on a **** list.

[Redwing]

I have several books/graphic novels in mind, centering around different characters I've created and certain things that happen to them..

 

What I have in mind is far more of a set of 'realistic' dramas in an unrealistic setting, rather than quest-based fantasy/technology-centered sci-fi. I have no interest in following a normal, standardized sci-fi/fantasy plot outline, even though obviously my universe is heavily steeped in elements of both.

 

I'm actually currently writing the first part. (and need to get moving since I need to have a new submission ready by the 25th; I'm part of a small novel writer's group)

 

You may think this weird, but I've actually been hesitant to use major characters (plotwise) in these RPGs, because obviously anything major happening to them here can't be incorporated into their personalities in the original stories.

 

For example: Termand Rwos was never anything more than a side character who happened to have a reputation and plays a pivotal but still minor role in the main storyline. (And I liked him.) Guy, Marin and Aidan, and most of the other characters I've used alot are also mostly side characters.

 

Major exception is K'Warra, but since he's an immortal nothing really fazes him. Nothing CAN be done to alter his basic personality in a manner significant to the story. But even he isn't one of THE main characters, since he always plays a secondary role. Even if it is a central one.

 

[/end ramble]

 

Technology-comparison-wise, since all my stuff is created with how it works with other stuff in my universe in mind, how it interacts with other people's stuff (e.g. Admiral tech, Star Wars tech) has always been a waffling point for me. For instance, I have no idea what the hardness of a Drake scale is in comparison to (for example) magically reinforced Blade Executioner armor.

 

Okay, on to RPG-related stuff.

 

 

Okay, well first off lets point out that the group can trust the Agamari.

 

Why would the group believe this? Whether or not they're shapeshifters doesn't matter - the Agamari are No One We Know. Which is one step away from Enemy, especially if they're trying to confiscate important stuff. And especially since everyone related to the Agamari has left the group now.

 

Just because the Agamari CAN be trusted doesn't mean the group WILL trust them.

 

So, good reasons:

 

1. Most of (the tech) is dead weight and useless.

 

2. They'll have to carry it.

 

3. No one is giving them extra pack animals for the purpose.

 

4. The chance of the group getting ambushed and lossing at least some of it is high.

 

Just how much crap does the group *normally* carry? Also, if the tech doesn't work for the group it can't work for the Tarsai. And if the tech doesn't work, they can get rid of it. Rather than give it up to possible unfriendlies.

 

5. If they don't leave it behind they won't be getting much help, which they will need. Guides at the very least. Not to mention sacrificial animals.

 

Why would they *NEED* guides when they have a map... and why would they need sacrificial animals? Those aren't part of the quest. (and can't be, because the designers of the quest couldn't have been sure that said animals wouldn't be extinct by the time the quest was activated.)

 

7. Admiral can confirm this, nay or yay, but if I were Loki I would use the Tarsai against the Agamari, ergo anything they loose will end up in Loki's hands and I doubt they want that.

 

Nothing any of the current group carries with them could help Loki. The Aesir's stuff would blow up, and Guy's stuff can't be duplicated with the resources Loki has available to him. The only thing Loki could capture that could conceivably help his forces would be Marin's morphing cube, and she doesn't carry that with her (plus to date only Aidan and Heimdall - plus whoever Heimdall might have told - know what it does, or even that it exists).

 

3. Well, yeah, okay. What if it was Guy's favorite do-hicky? The one his mother gave him?

 

Um... did I miss something? I don't recall Guy's mother giving him anything, for the minute and a half she was in the RPG.

 

4. Well I still don't but indestructable shields, from anything less than Gods that it is, so I assume that put under enough pressure the shield would fail. Seems reasonable, not that I'm trying to force you into being resonable.

 

A shield hardly needs to be indestructable to block arrows, even alot of arrows, especially ordinary ones. No amount of thrown rocks would get through the armor of a tank, right? But a tank's armor would collapse under enough pressure. Maybe if you enchanted the rocks

 

4. Well [Guy will] have to argue his case but I think someone might speak up for him. Although they may have less sypathy than you expect. You'll see why when the group gets there.

 

Just an FYI, if Guy actually still has all that tech to cart around with him when it gets to be this time, IF he gives it up, it would certainly have a failsafe on it. i.e. if the Agamarians tried to dismantle/destroy it, bad things would happen to them.

 

(There's a good chance Guy would give it up under the right circumstances; although he isn't bound by honor in any way he's pretty selfless.)

 

Of course at this point Guy may not have anything with him to give up if we/I take the storyline that way.

[Redwing]

I have several books/graphic novels in mind, centering around different characters I've created and certain things that happen to them..

 

What I have in mind is far more of a set of 'realistic' dramas in an unrealistic setting, rather than quest-based fantasy/technology-centered sci-fi. I have no interest in following a normal, standardized sci-fi/fantasy plot outline, even though obviously my universe is heavily steeped in elements of both.

 

I'm actually currently writing the first part. (and need to get moving since I need to have a new submission ready by the 25th; I'm part of a small novel writer's group)

 

You may think this weird, but I've actually been hesitant to use major characters (plotwise) in these RPGs, because obviously anything major happening to them here can't be incorporated into their personalities in the original stories.

 

For example: Termand Rwos was never anything more than a side character who happened to have a reputation and plays a pivotal but still minor role in the main storyline. (And I liked him.) Guy, Marin and Aidan, and most of the other characters I've used alot are also mostly side characters.

 

Major exception is K'Warra, but since he's an immortal nothing really fazes him. Nothing CAN be done to alter his basic personality in a manner significant to the story. But even he isn't one of THE main characters, since he always plays a secondary role. Even if it is a central one.

 

[/end ramble]

 

Technology-comparison-wise, since all my stuff is created with how it works with other stuff in my universe in mind, how it interacts with other people's stuff (e.g. Admiral tech, Star Wars tech) has always been a waffling point for me. For instance, I have no idea what the hardness of a Drake scale is in comparison to (for example) magically reinforced Blade Executioner armor.

 

Okay, on to RPG-related stuff.

 

 

Okay, well first off lets point out that the group can trust the Agamari.

 

Why would the group believe this? Whether or not they're shapeshifters doesn't matter - the Agamari are No One We Know. Which is one step away from Enemy, especially if they're trying to confiscate important stuff. And especially since everyone related to the Agamari has left the group now.

 

Just because the Agamari CAN be trusted doesn't mean the group WILL trust them.

 

So, good reasons:

 

1. Most of (the tech) is dead weight and useless.

 

2. They'll have to carry it.

 

3. No one is giving them extra pack animals for the purpose.

 

4. The chance of the group getting ambushed and lossing at least some of it is high.

 

Just how much crap does the group *normally* carry? Also, if the tech doesn't work for the group it can't work for the Tarsai. And if the tech doesn't work, they can get rid of it. Rather than give it up to possible unfriendlies.

 

5. If they don't leave it behind they won't be getting much help, which they will need. Guides at the very least. Not to mention sacrificial animals.

 

Why would they *NEED* guides when they have a map... and why would they need sacrificial animals? Those aren't part of the quest. (and can't be, because the designers of the quest couldn't have been sure that said animals wouldn't be extinct by the time the quest was activated.)

 

7. Admiral can confirm this, nay or yay, but if I were Loki I would use the Tarsai against the Agamari, ergo anything they loose will end up in Loki's hands and I doubt they want that.

 

Nothing any of the current group carries with them could help Loki. The Aesir's stuff would blow up, and Guy's stuff can't be duplicated with the resources Loki has available to him. The only thing Loki could capture that could conceivably help his forces would be Marin's morphing cube, and she doesn't carry that with her (plus to date only Aidan and Heimdall - plus whoever Heimdall might have told - know what it does, or even that it exists).

 

3. Well, yeah, okay. What if it was Guy's favorite do-hicky? The one his mother gave him?

 

Um... did I miss something? I don't recall Guy's mother giving him anything, for the minute and a half she was in the RPG.

 

4. Well I still don't but indestructable shields, from anything less than Gods that it is, so I assume that put under enough pressure the shield would fail. Seems reasonable, not that I'm trying to force you into being resonable.

 

A shield hardly needs to be indestructable to block arrows, even alot of arrows, especially ordinary ones. No amount of thrown rocks would get through the armor of a tank, right? But a tank's armor would collapse under enough pressure. Maybe if you enchanted the rocks

 

4. Well [Guy will] have to argue his case but I think someone might speak up for him. Although they may have less sypathy than you expect. You'll see why when the group gets there.

 

Just an FYI, if Guy actually still has all that tech to cart around with him when it gets to be this time, IF he gives it up, it would certainly have a failsafe on it. i.e. if the Agamarians tried to dismantle/destroy it, bad things would happen to them.

 

(There's a good chance Guy would give it up under the right circumstances; although he isn't bound by honor in any way he's pretty selfless.)

 

Of course at this point Guy may not have anything with him to give up if we/I take the storyline that way.

[BattleDog]

Well In case your interested Hal is my main protagonist but initially he'll be around 17 years old. Coming from a violent world and given his backstory his demeanor will seem more reasonable. Allessa will appear in act 2 as his love interest and a plot point but I'm still not sure what she's going to be like. Drago will be another character in act 2, known as "The Dragon" only he won't be immortal he'll be around 40-50 and haunted by his failure to save Hal's father.

 

Now, on to buisness:

 

Right, shoving all the tech stuff out the window. I think we've answered that, including the bit about the arrows. Speaking of arrows, did you know a longbow is powerful enough to send a shaft through kevlar?

 

Why does the group need guides? Have you ever tried to walk the Andes ar travel the Congo without a guide? Maps only show you the ground. If all the group needed to know was where to go they wouldn't need guides.

 

Sacrifical Animals? They're going to the underworld. They don't need to sacrifice anything but if they don't they'll have to deal with all those angry spirits.

 

The thing about Guy's mother was a figure of speech.

 

Talked about the arrows.

[Admiral Odin]

BD: Yes I have a book in mind with a medieval setting (I love that setting if no one has noticed. ) and probably some Norse elements as well. The rpg wise there is little that translates over except for some names (Idona, Viddall) mainly and toying with the Heloki.

 

I haven't heard about that test, at what distance did that longbow pierce the kevlar?

 

As far as guides, Red brings up a good point. Now under normals circumstances I would say yes a map isn't good enough. However, the map the group uses if far from normal (it changes etc.) so its not a far reach to say that guides are not needed. Further since they would know that the group wouldn't/couldn't trust the inhabitants of Tarsis they would have made sure a guide wasn't needed.

 

As far as the underworld part. Why would the questmakers have the group go into the underworld? What purpose does it serve?

[BattleDog]

I can't remember the specifics about the kevlar thing but I seem to remember it was the needle point rather than the bodkin. The same head used to pierce chainmail.

 

As I said, there are certain dangers the map can't show. "Here by dragons." sort of stuff.

 

Why the underworld? I have an answer but first tell me who created the quest.

 

I have another question about your Aesirean armour. How do the Aesir protect joints, knees, elbows and especially armpits; after all thats the real killer.

[Redwing]

Kevlar is intrinsically very different from a force field obviously.

 

IIRC sharp, bladed objects can cut through Kevlar. Bullets are not sharp, bladed objects. Kevlar is made to stop bullets.

 

About the map: You can get lost with ordinary maps. You can't get lost with this map. And, avoiding dragons is not a necessity.

 

Who created the quest: The three Norns and a small council of extremely powerful mages from the Aether. (magic world of Earth from Rwos' universe.) Some of the Aesir (who were alive at the time) and some other mages, helped create it, especially Odin IIRC. Certain creators had more hand in certain sections of the quest that others.

[jokemaster]

So I'm the only one not planning to write a book?

[Writer]

I guess so, JM:D

[BattleDog]

JM: Looks like.

 

Red: Ahh, thats what I thought. Well here's your answer: If the group is worthy they will pass through the underworld, if they are not they won't.

 

Again, they will need someone with local knowledge or they will likely die. I'm not saying why.

[Redwing]

Well BD, the group has been "likely" to die throughout every single thread yet.

 

The quest can't be created to require "help from Agamari" unless the Agamari were contained in the quest themselves, like the dwarves frozen in stone a few threads back. There's simply no way the creators could've ensured that the Agamari would even be around. "Always in motion is the future."

 

If you mean something outside the quest is going to kill them, I think you're underestimating the group's survivability in these situations. Especially considering the supernatural help they've got.

 

Either way, the group can't be strongarmed into acting out-of-character just because "if they don't do this they will likely die". Outside knowledge of that can't affect how the group will act. You need a better reason.

[Deac]

JM, I think most of us are.