Star Wars = Anti-Bush? More people jumping on the misinformed bandwagon.

[Samnmax221]

I by no means stated that America invented democracy. I said "Modern democracy". Democracy was oringinally inventd by the greeks but it wasn't anything like the democracies of today. Only members of the aristocracy could vote and women were also not allowed to vote. The American Revulution was the first of it's kind, the world watched as mistreated colonists who up untill recently had considered themselves British subjects fought back against a tyranical King who refused to give them representation in parliment, When the World saw the colonists earn their freedom they began to question if the same thing could be accomplished in they're own countries. Well the majority of the Worlds governments are democracies today so you judge what happened. Yes, Cheech Marin you make a good point democracy gives you the freedom to speak your mind about whatever you want (guaranteed by the bill of rights if you live in America and in different documents depending on where you live).

 

P.S. I've listened to what you have to say respectfully, You could try to be as respectfull in return.

 

P.S.S. THe rules may not state that Politics cannot be discussed on Lucasforums, but we are all fans of Something or other associated with George Lucas we don't need to argue about our own feelings toward world leaders. I'm not so fond of Jacques chirac, Gerhard Schröder , Kofi Anon, or Carolyn Parrish but I don't bring it in here. I think politics belong in Forums specifically meant for discussion of politics. But it is a moderaters decision what is acceptabe to discuss in the forums.

[OmegaNothing]

Ok I think this is pretty ridiculous, questioning whether movies are in some little way against bush. Who cares? Its Star Wars, not some modern day political conspiracy film, it has nothing to do with Bush or his government.

[Alkonium]

Say what you like, I'm already sure that Bush is the Sith Lord Darth Dubya. He's even designed American Star Destroyers, as seen in Popular Science. Plus there's this:

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop looking for new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither will we."

Either he's being stupid, serious, or both, that not good.

[Redtech]

Personally, for all the metaphor fans out there, I'd feel that the Seperatists and "The insugency" have the lead in 'cool' nicknames.

 

Anyway Star Wars is a movie. A tale showing the ultimate triumph of good over evil and the redemption of one man who had fallen to ultimate evil and redeemed himself.

 

Sadly, these kind of tales are often mirrored in real life, but without any redemption bits and evil always wins.

[Kurgan]

Well, considering when Star Wars was created, it would only be possible for AOTC and ROTS to be a critique of GW Bush as US president.. logically.

 

I think there are some comments on US politics in those movies, but it's one thing to admit that and another to think that's the only point of the movie or that it's intended to bring down his presidency (ie: calling it "anti-bush propagdana"). Lucas was anti-Nixon and anti-Vietnam war, and he supposedly incorporated that kind of thinking into the original trilogy (Nixon was going to be one of his models for Palpatine, though he seems more just like a generic evil wizard in ROTJ rather than a popular, but corrupt politician).

 

There's parallels in there from other parts of American history too like the Civil War and WWII. Lucas has always admitted he's used historical parallels in Star Wars, and he did recently compare Vietnam to the Iraq war.

 

So is there nothing about Bush in the last two prequels?

 

"If you're not with me, then you're my enemy." "You're starting to sound like a Seperatist!" Emergency powers, terrorist threats, etc.

 

I think it's pretty obvious where he drew some inspiration. If you love Bush, does that mean you can't love Star Wars? That's up to you to decide.

 

To those who say there is NO connection, I think you should check out the original Episode II poster, which is most telling of all!

[Ryozan]

Srry but i am always reffering to WWII when i hear star wars

lets say

Clone Wars:WWI

Galactic civil war

when the Jews where purged (im sorry if im insulting anybody but im from holland and i dont know what to call it)is like the same as Jedi Purge

you can call Naboo

Elzas-Lotharingen btween French and germany

Palpatine-Hitler

and WWI Clone wars it was the asset

to the WWII (Galactic Civil war)

so this might not be a very readable post

but can Kurgan or IS make it a bit more clarifying (Correct word?)

Edit: Palpy used the clone wars as a excuse to take the power so did hitler with WWI

[T10]

Uh.........Hitler didn't use WW1 as an excuse. He served in the German army, and rose to power during the great depression. He promised Germany a way to get back onto the world stage (not involving the army at this time, publically, but he rebuilt it for 'protection'). He used the 'attack' on the Rehichstag (or whatever, I'm not very good at German building names) by 'communists' and seized the power to defeat them.

[Ryozan]

Reichstag

but he DID wanted revenge on the french:)

Edit:visit it once its a very beautiful building

[Kurgan]

Star Wars isn't a (direct) allegory, but there are certainly many parallels.

 

Palpatine could also be seen as Stalin, who "purged" his generals because he didn't trust them.

[The Doctor]

Palpatine isn't similar to Bush, he's actually very similar to Ceaser (his rise to power, how his best friend betrayed him, etc).

[Nedak]

Just because Palpatine is evil and Bush is evil doesn't mean there is a connection!

 

Sure there is!

 

= Bush

 

= Not bush (more like Rosavelt or JFK)

[Kurgan]

If anything, Star Wars is Anti-Empire... despite what you read in the Weekly Standard.

 

Pat Buchanan would be proud!

[RobQel-Droma]

Why do people come up with utter ***** like this? They must be taking drugs. I think a while ago I saw something on the internet where they were trying to prove that Yoda was Satan = .

 

Is everyone here anti-Bush or something?

[The Doctor]

I'm not anti-Bush, I'm anti-Idiot. Same thing, really.

[RobQel-Droma]

Well, seeing as I don't want to get in a Bush argument, I will resist from Force Crushing you . I am anti-idiot, but I am not anti-Bush. And no, that is not contradicting.

[Redtech]

Personally, I dunno how anyone with a colour 2/12s away from white (on the 256 greyscale chart) can trust the man.

 

Anyway, if people can draw parallels between Star Wars and The Bush admin, there really is something wrong going on. The idea that the relationship between Star Wars and real wars is BS IMHO. You don't produce kids movies based on the execution of millions of people in the name of revenge, or hundreds of thousands in the name of oil etc, etc.

[Kurgan]

Why do people come up with utter ***** like this? They must be taking drugs. I think a while ago I saw something on the internet where they were trying to prove that Yoda was Satan = .

 

Is everyone here anti-Bush or something?

 

Don't believe everything you read, that "yoda is satan" thing is a parody (much like the "bert is evil" joke).

 

Incidentally, if folks want to rant about the president, or whatever, there's the Senate Chambers forum which is a much better place for that.

 

This topic is about the supposed political messages in Star Wars (and the people promoting them).

[RobQel-Droma]

^Really? The thing I saw was some religious guy who seemed to be serious. They had a bunch of emails too, with people saying they were never going to watch star wars again. But if that was a gag...

 

I have no clue where I found it or how, unfortunately...

[Kurgan]

Yes, it's totally a hoax. They went and picketed with signs and handed out fliers. It's just a "social experiment" they say, showing how gullible people are, and so they can make fun of the hate mail they get. It's generally over the top but "believable" in that it's very much in the style of folks who want to condemn pop culture as being satanic.

 

I am almost 100% I know which one you're referring to, and I could probably find it again if I wanted to. They play it like it's real, but it's not.

 

But don't feel bad, some people think Landover Baptist Church or The Onion are real too. Quite frequently in fact...

[Redtech]

The Onion is better than real news though, so I could almost allow it. Anyway, stupidity is a pandemic.

[JekRendar]

I'll recap what was said and add my own tidbits. First off, as said earlier, you can make comparisons between Star Wars and any other leader/war in history. Second, if you really read between the lines in Star Wars, the movies could also be: anti-Judeo-Christian-Mulism, pro-life, pro-communism and, what the heck, anti-gay. I'll go into more details on this.

 

Jesus Christ (and some OT prophets) also discussed the "if you're not with me, you're against me," motto, so does that mean that Star Wars is anti-Judeo-Christian-Muslim too? Well, that'd make sense, since Lucas is a Buddhist.

 

Hmmm...notice that in Star Wars, Lucas does not endorse pre-martial sex, Anakin and Padme wait until they are married, and even though Padme lost her husband, she decides not to abort the babies.

 

As Palpatine gains strength and power in the Republic, more and more economic control becomes his. Notice, who the Sepratists where? Trade Federation, Banking Clan, etc. COMPANIES, capitalists! Uh, Bush is a capitalist, thus he can't be communist. Rather, it's flipped. "The insurgency," in the real world, have dictatorial leaders, and endorse socialism. In other words, the economic stances between Star Wars/real wars, are the EXACT opposite.

 

Finally, in episodes II and III, you hear mention that Anakin is forbidden to "have a WIFE." Hmmm...no mention of "life partner." In fact, throughout Star Wars, you only hear of STRAIGHT couples. Now, does this mean that Star Wars is anti-gay? Except of course, maybe C-3P0 and R2 had something going on.

 

Bottom line, no matter that you say, think, or do, Star Wars will always have some "hidden message" to it.

[Redtech]

How do I know you aren't being controlled by the force?

 

Yeah, I agree with you there. I think Lucas should just do a Tolkien and just shout, "THERE IS NO WAY MY WORK IS REPRESENTING 'THAT!'"

[Kurgan]

I'll recap what was said and add my own tidbits. First off, as said earlier, you can make comparisons between Star Wars and any other leader/war in history. Second, if you really read between the lines in Star Wars, the movies could also be: anti-Judeo-Christian-Mulism, pro-life, pro-communism and, what the heck, anti-gay. I'll go into more details on this.

 

Jesus Christ (and some OT prophets) also discussed the "if you're not with me, you're against me," motto, so does that mean that Star Wars is anti-Judeo-Christian-Muslim too? Well, that'd make sense, since Lucas is a Buddhist.

 

Lucas is Buddhist? Where did you read that... I've never seen such a thing from any of his biographical info. Source would be nice. You may be getting him confused with Lawrence Kaseden (sp?) though who I heard was Buddhist, and he purposely contributed to much of the Buddhist influenced stuff about Yoda in ESB.

 

About Lucas's religion, it's rather vague. He was raised Methodist (and participated in Lutheranism in his youth). In interviews he's said he believes in "God" though he also uses Star Wars to illustrate his beliefs (not that he literally believes in the Force, but that it helps to illustrate what he feels about God and faith). It should be remembered though that the primary work we're talking about here was not produced entirely by Lucas himself, but he had other directors and writers helping him (only Star Wars itself and the prequels were controlled completely by him... though he did have a co-writer for AOTC, according to the credits).

 

Hmmm...notice that in Star Wars, Lucas does not endorse pre-martial sex, Anakin and Padme wait until they are married, and even though Padme lost her husband, she decides not to abort the babies.

 

Which doesn't prove anything one way or another... Many religious people today permit pre-marital sex and abortion, while many also oppose them. Some do so against the teachings of their own faith, but other times it's their own leaders who allow these things.

 

As Palpatine gains strength and power in the Republic, more and more economic control becomes his. Notice, who the Sepratists where? Trade Federation, Banking Clan, etc. COMPANIES, capitalists! Uh, Bush is a capitalist, thus he can't be communist. Rather, it's flipped. "The insurgency," in the real world, have dictatorial leaders, and endorse socialism. In other words, the economic stances between Star Wars/real wars, are the EXACT opposite.

 

Some have accused Lucas of being a socialist liberal. Of course there are many comparisons of the Empire to the nazis (Lucas even slips and calls the Imperials "Nazis" in one of the commentaries on the OT set). In a deleted scene for Star Wars, Biggs tells Luke that the Empire has "already started to nationalize commerce in the central systems" and speculates that Uncle Owen will soon be "just a tenant, slaving for the greater glory of the Empire."

 

While it's a bit of a stretch, a classic bit of rhetoric among western Democrats and other liberals is to label western conservatives and Republicans as "fascists" and compare them to the Nazis. I'm not saying Lucas is doing this, but the precedent exists in real life.

 

Finally, in episodes II and III, you hear mention that Anakin is forbidden to "have a WIFE." Hmmm...no mention of "life partner."

 

Actually it never says wife that I recall. Obi-Wan just says "you've made a commitment to the Jedi Order, one not easily broken" and Padme says "love.. I thought that was forbidden for a Jedi." There's been some nonesense in interviews that sex wasn't forbidden for Jedi, only marriage, but whatever. Would it make sense for Jedi to have thousands of illegitimate children and mistresses (or boyfriends) running around? Maybe that's what the younglings are! (scandal conspiracy theory gears churning)

 

Lucas I believe once said that he patterned the romance in his films after old movies that showed kisses, but no actual sex.. vs. modern movies (at the time, 70's, 80's) tended to try to titillate audiences with bedroom scenes and nudity. Rather than beat the audience over the head that the two characters are "in love" by showing them sleeping together... but then he also wanted his movies to be for kids, and didn't feel such things were appropriate to show. I mean in all likelyhood Anakin and Padme did the nasty... but he doesn't show it.

 

Anyway, there you go.

 

In fact, throughout Star Wars, you only hear of STRAIGHT couples. Now, does this mean that Star Wars is anti-gay? Except of course, maybe C-3P0 and R2 had something going on.

 

Good point. Some have said that SW must be anti-gay because it doesn't show homosexuals (barring any jokes about C3PO's demeaner), or complaining about how there aren't any "asian Jedi" or not enough female characters, etc. Rumor was that they got Billy Dee Williams to play Lando to avoid criticism that there weren't any black main characters (forgetting James Earl Jones since he was just doing voice acting). Some have argued that since Jesus or God is not explicitly mentioned, then Star Wars endorses a belief in the occult (forgetting any metaphorical interpretations of the mysticism in the movies). One could even try to argue that the Jedi endorse lying (since Obi-Wan twists the truth to Luke via the later movie's events) and assasination (Mace Windu). They might also say that the Jedi's stoicism is unhealthy (is that really a fair analysis of their philosophy?).

 

Bottom line, no matter that you say, think, or do, Star Wars will always have some "hidden message" to it.

 

Agreed. I'm not disagreeing with your general statement (and rhetorical questions), only explaining a few bits in your examples!

[PoiuyWired]

Well, seeing as I don't want to get in a Bush argument, I will resist from Force Crushing you . I am anti-idiot, but I am not anti-Bush. And no, that is not contradicting.

 

Then it is proven! Nothing is contradicting in this world...

 

As for the SW = Anti-Bush thing, its total BS. Gee can't people think of a more creative rumor?

[Kurgan]

I hear that Jar Jar is a racist caricature. Discuss!