Views on Jedi

[Prime]

In the Words of Desaan. "The force is not shield to protect the useless, but is in reality to a weapon empower the worthy." I have always hated Jedi for the reason of purging yourself of wants, needs and desires, especially the concept of mastering your emotions. To deny your emotions is to deny being a living being.

Yeah, they are real bastards for being selfless.

[Allronix]

There is quite the difference between mastering your emotions and denying they exist. Just as there is a difference between knowing you have an uncommon talent and believing that it sets you above and apart from others.

[Saber-Scorpion]

there is many things that could have happened i mean what would have happened if anakin wouldn't have killed dooku and padme died because anakin turned to the darkside if he would have stayed in the council chamber the sith would be dead and as for revan he did not fall he saw a bigger threat than the mandalorians and knew that the jedi couldn't fight them that's why he went to look for the starforge and the jedi council was maybe not right but anyways i think if anakin would have been younger and trained by qui gon yoda or mace windu he maybe he wouldn't have falled to the darkside obi wan is not a bad teacher but he should have been more experinced

[True_Avery]

I dislike the concept of them purging themselves of emotion and such overall, because I believe that is what led to Revan turning on them in the first place. By the end of the Great Sith War, the Jedi had purged emotion from themselves to such a point that they simply ignored the Mandalorian threat by using cold hard logic instead of focusing on their emotions to decide what was best. Revan and others decided to listen to their emotions for a change and in turn, saved the Republic and the entire Galaxy from being destroyed. It caused a lot of them to turn to the Dark Side, but as Revan is a good example of: Selfless acts to sacrifice yourself for the good of others. Damn, even as a Sith, Revan still wanted to take down the Republic for what it had done to it's people.

 

As has been said before, the Jedi have the right idea but they darken it with a lot of teachings that are hypocritical and many times too hard to handle. They are a religion, and like nearly all religions they have a fantastic core but a few muddy layers on top of that. I respect what they do, and I realise all their rules are in place for a reason but it has shown on a number of events to wipe them out completely. Its hard to tell who had it right: The Old Republic Jedi, the Trilogy Jedi, or Skywalker's Jedi. In the end, all three of them get wiped out.

 

But, as I believe, the Jedi and the Sith get wiped out for Force Balance, so no matter what their teachings there is a chance they are destined to be wiped out over and over again.

 

Sith? Humans with force powers. Doesn't get more simply than that.

 

I find it amusing to note that the majority of the wars, conflicts, and Dark Side users end up being humans. Maybe if the virus known as humanity would be wiped out from the Galaxy, the Galaxy would be a little more peaceful.

[Nancy Allen``]

Ignored the Mandalorians by using hard logic? Oh that's good, I'm going to remember that for future use.

[SilentScope001]

I find it amusing to note that the majority of the wars, conflicts, and Dark Side users end up being humans. Maybe if the virus known as humanity would be wiped out from the Galaxy, the Galaxy would be a little more peaceful.

 

Join the Diversty Alliance! Wipe out the human plague-Er. Oops.

 

Actually, I disagree. The Rakatans was non-human, and yet they were a pretty Dark-Sided race that overrun the galaxy in their "Infinite Empire". Humans cause the majority of wars and conflicts because, well, most of the galaxy happens to be human (and the developers are just lazy).

 

Ignored the Mandalorians by using hard logic? Oh that's good, I'm going to remember that for future use.

 

From what I learn, the Jedi hated the Mandalorians just as much as every other non-Mandalorian. They choosen not to enter however due to a properhcy gotten by Vandar. Vandar was worried that had the Jedi attacked the Mandalorians, there would be a huge war, more deveasting than other wars...Hence, the Jedi Council did not intervene, because it was afraid it could cause a greater war, a greater evil.

 

If you only consider K1, this is a Self-Fufilling Properhcy. Revan, being the rebellious dissent he is, went to the Mandalorian Wars, fell to the Dark Side, and ended up causing the Jedi Civil War, the greater evil that Vandar sought to stop by not entering the War to begin with. (This is what I think Bioware intended, before K1 became such a smashing success that they invented the True Sith kaffule. Taking only K1 into consideration, the Jedi, in trying to stop a war, ends up causing it. Hm...can someone say Darth Vader?)

 

If you consider K2, Vandar may have actually foreseen the True Sith threat, the war with the True Sith, and prehaps, Revan became a tool of the True Sith, to wipe out the Republic. In which case, Vandar made the right choice, but thanks to Revan, the galaxy fell into a great civil war. Had Vandar went into the Mandalorian Wars, they would have marched out of that War as Sith Lords.

 

Overall, the Jedi Council made a reasonable choice to try and stop a great conflict. Do you agree or disagree?

[Nancy Allen``]

I'm not sure how right this thinking is, but you're going to die of something, you're going to fall one way or another, whether it be under the Mandalorians or in war against them, or fighting the Sith. Even those who were the absolute model of moral rigour, Vrook, Kavar, Zaz Kai El, it could be argued they might have fallen. Now by their admission what they intended to do was bad, but in their mind the Exile was worse, what she had done, what she was capeable of. By the same token there are a lot of ways she can justify going to war and still be light sided, still be mature in her words. I think Vrook was the only Jedi who was completely against war, the others were at the very least tempted. So did they make the right decision in going to war? I'm not sure if a right answer can even exist, as given the Mandalorian threat the options were to die or fight and still risk death and falling to the dark side, but take the chance that you may live, that you can save the galaxy. I don't think there was a third option. If you'll excuse the comparison it's a lot harder that something like Iraq as the threat was very real, no one could deny it. If the Mandalorians weren't challenged they would have taken over the galaxy, then what? You know what happens to worlds they conquer.

[SilentScope001]

So did they make the right decision in going to war? I'm not sure if a right answer can even exist, as given the Mandalorian threat the options were to die or fight and still risk death and falling to the dark side, but take the chance that you may live, that you can save the galaxy. I don't think there was a third option. If you'll excuse the comparison it's a lot harder that something like Iraq as the threat was very real, no one could deny it. If the Mandalorians weren't challenged they would have taken over the galaxy, then what? You know what happens to worlds they conquer.

 

I do think people do overestimate the Mandalorian's strengths. The Mandalorians could ravage lots of worlds, but it might be possible that they could turn on each other, like they would when they battle other clans. It could be possible the Republic may have won victories against the Mandalorains...and even if they don't, somehow, I don't find the possiblity of the Mandalorains marching into Corasaunt plasubile. Remember that most of the war was being fought in the Outer Rim. They were the equivilant of barbarians, hyped up with their concept of "honor".

 

I do understand that "death is going to happen anyway" theory, but it could also be applied to the Mandalorian Wars as well. Why bother trying to save people from the Mandos, when they will die anyway? Death is going to happen anyway, the true war is not against the Mandos, but against the Dark Side, which presumably, the True Sith represents. It is better to die by the hands of the Mandos (if it gets to that point) than to risk corruption of your goals, to become a 'Revan', in an attempt to save the Republic.

 

I can understand why some people would believe that the Jedi Order should have intervened in the conflict, but I also hope they do understand why the Jedi Order did not.

[True_Avery]

The Jedi Order thought it smart. Whether the prophecy by Vandar is canon or not, the Jedi has just gotten out of a previous war which had done its damage. There is no emotion, there is peace. That, in my opinion, killed them.

 

Yes, Revan went to war. But I personally believe Revan saved the Republic, regardless. The Mandalorians were winning, bigtime. Eventually the Republic Army would have been decimated and the worlds bombarded into dust. It is possibly, as you said, for the Mandalorians to turn on eachother but they had honor that seperates them from the Sith. When one Mandalore died, another took over and continued the crusade. It would have kept going until every mandalorian was dead, or the Republic was dead. I think they had more than enough people and resources to make sure the Republic would stay down for good.

 

The Republic let the Mandalorians take wild space/unknown region worlds willingly because it wasn't affecting their economy. They killed themselves, and by all rights the Republic deserved to die. They are lucky Revan had enough sympathy for the Galaxy to save it.

 

So why did the Jedi council not help? Like I said, they had just recovered from a war. They had blocked out so much emotion from themselves that they became exactly what they wanted to me: Logic using, peaceloving individuals. That is what a true Jedi becomes. But, by doing this, they felt the war would cause them so much damaged they really really really had to think this through. They no longer held onto their emotions and morals for guidance, but a logical obligation to themselves. In all honesty, prophecy or not, the Jedi Council would have never gotten involved until the Mandos were knocking on their temple door. Revan saw this, as so many Jedi did, and they saved the Republic. It was rash, yes, but because of them the Republic dragged on another 4,000 years before finally being crushed.

 

The Jedi Order, from a point of view, was doing the right thing in trying to find the absolute best way to look at this war. But avoiding war when it is at your doorstep altogether when you are the special ops of the Republic... that is taking it too far. They were wiped out, and it is an absolute good thing they were wiped out because a new generation of Jedi took over that continued to live for another 4,000 years. One a religion, a group lives long enough to begins to lose sight of what it's original intentions were. Look at Vrook in TSL with Force Sight. He was on his way to becoming a Sith, yet he was one of the stongest followers to the Jedi ideal.

 

Also, if you look at it from Kreia's point of view, Revan attacked the Republic because Revan knew the Republic could not be trusted to continue on living after what it did to its people in the war. Revan knew it was not strong enough, so Revan decided to take over and see if he/she could do a better job. Yes, they could have all died by the Mando' hand... but remember the Mando's were after absolute destruction... Revan's goal even as a Sith was to protect the Republic, even if it meant taking out a few things along the way. I would still trust Revan over the Mandos anyday.

 

War is never a good thing, and the council knew this, but we would have never gotten the 6 Star Wars movie storyline without Revan there to step up to the plate and save a Galaxy. That is my opinion on it anyway, and I have a pretty loose view of the Kotor storyline.

[Allronix]

The Jedi made themselves out to be the big heroes, protectors, and saviors of the Republic. But when it comes down to it, the Atris and Vrook faction was more interested in saving their own butts than the people they bragged about protecting.

 

So, Revan sees through that and decides to get Jedi who will do their job. In miniture, it's the sidequest you get walking past Jon at the Enclave. There's Republic citizens in trouble, the Jedi say they will protect them, but they're good for nothing BUT talk. So you, Revan, have to go out and nail the Mandalorians to the wall again.

 

Now, here's the problem. They get cut off - no support, no guidance, no accountability. They have power, and power corrodes. And they see the True Sith along with the atrocities of the Mandalorians - answering both with atrocities of their own, thinking that a fall to the Dark Side will make for a war to end all wars. It doesn't.

[Lord Foley]

The Jedi made themselves out to be the big heroes, protectors, and saviors of the Republic. But when it comes down to it, the Atris and Vrook faction was more interested in saving their own butts than the people they bragged about protecting.

 

Not at all. They sensed that darker things would come if they sent Jedi to battle the Mandalorians, and every Jedi who decided they were smarter than the Council either fell to the Dark Side or died. Low and behold, because Revan went off to fight the Mandalorians, he plunged the galaxy into an even bigger civil war. Sure, the Mandalorians were defeated, but so were the Jedi, and so were the Sith, and the Republic was left completely unstable. What a wonderful decision Revan made.

[Allronix]

So, they sit on their butts until Mandalore walks up to the gates of the Jedi Temple on Coruscant? Exile asks Atris as much and not even she can pony up an answer. The Carth and Bastila banter pretty much sums it up. Bastila argues that millions would still be alive if Revan did the duck and cover like a good little Jedi, and Carth snaps back that "Yeah, and every one of them would be speaking Mandalorian."

 

(And if retcon's your friend, wanna bet that the reason he was put as an "advisor" on the Spire was because he was a passing witness to Jedi dirty tricks already?)

 

It wouldn't be so bad if the Jedi DIDN'T make such self-important boasts about being the protectors of the Republic. They get the Republic in as much trouble as they manage to solve, they're overly-powerful, insular, and frankly clueless. They act and react mostly out of fear.

 

Honestly, I would call it a self-fulfilling prophesy in the case of the Jedi Civil War...just like the Taris Padawan massacre. They crack down, Revan leaves, turning to the Master they kicked out because she was pretty corrupt in her own right (Kreia). Then, there's all that war, all that horror, and nowhere to turn. The one Jedi who DOES go back gets the door slammed in his face with no one attempting to understand - sending the message to ALL who went with Revan of "don't bother repenting." So, the Jedi slam the door shut, there's still that other threat to deal with, and nowhere else to turn...but to the Dark Side.

[SilentScope001]

I trust the Jedi Order more than I trust Revan. The Jedi Order always have been proven right: Exile did cut himself off from the Force, The Exile and Nihilus are connected, Revan did fall to the Dark Side, the Jedi Civil War has happened, and it is quite likely that there WILL be a person who's going to attack the Jedi with a red suit.

 

If you fault the Jedi for trying to stop the inevitble, then why do you honor Revan for doing the exact same thing? Shouldn't we let the True Sith come their merry way, instead of trying to stop them? No, Revan tried to stop them, just the same as the Jedi Council tried to stop Revan, tried to stop Nihilus, and tried to stop the Jedi Civil War.

[Nancy Allen``]

And the Mandalorians would have slaughtered most of the galaxy had Revan not gone to war, so you're ****ed either way.

[SilentScope001]

And the Mandalorians would have slaughtered most of the galaxy had Revan not gone to war, so you're ****ed either way.

 

Again, the Mandalorians are not as strong as people say it is. They seem to be barbarians, raging the Outer Rim, and not actually able to destroy the galaxy's center. Revan, however, can.

[Nancy Allen``]

The fact they were able to wipe out worlds, that the Republic could do nothing to stop them, suggests they were as strong as people said they were. Canderous said they would have conquered the galaxy had Revan not stopped them.

[GarfieldJL]

I trust the Jedi Order more than I trust Revan. The Jedi Order always have been proven right: Exile did cut himself off from the Force, The Exile and Nihilus are connected, Revan did fall to the Dark Side, the Jedi Civil War has happened, and it is quite likely that there WILL be a person who's going to attack the Jedi with a red suit.

 

Again you're assuming Nihilus and the Exile are one and the same when they probably aren't. Also in the case of the guy in the Red Suit, it could be argued that it was either a Mandalorian, or they pushed Zayne into going medieval on that group of Jedi Master that tried to murder him when he hadn't done anything. However, it seems unless something happens at Malachor (which it was thought Zayne was the exile till they made the exile a woman) and Zayne is there, Zayne is maintaining his grip on the lightside. For all we know the guy that was supposed to be in the red armor is already dead and they're going after one of the ones that wouldn't have fallen.

 

When that group of Jedi acted and tried to pin the blame on Zayne, he and the others were still innocent, there were other ways to make it less like that they'd fall besides cold-blooded murder. For all we know that action could have created the events leading to the guy in the red armor. Revan was fighting a bunch of people running around out to conquer the galaxy when he entered the conflict. The Jedi in Zayne's case decided to act and kill their own padawans over a vision that may or may not have come to pass. So it seems like Revan had the moral high ground.

 

If you fault the Jedi for trying to stop the inevitble, then why do you honor Revan for doing the exact same thing? Shouldn't we let the True Sith come their merry way, instead of trying to stop them? No, Revan tried to stop them, just the same as the Jedi Council tried to stop Revan, tried to stop Nihilus, and tried to stop the Jedi Civil War.

 

Revan got in the fight against the Mandalorians when they were attacking the Republic. He didn't attack a bunch of innocent students whom trusted their masters (the very same ones plotting their demise). He fell during the Mandalorian War yes, but part of that could have been blamed on the Jedi Council for all we know he could have sent them warning about another threat and they didn't believe him, leading him to go off on his own.

 

The Jedi may have stopped Nihilus if they had figured out what had happened to the Exile, the Exile could have then stood against Nihilus at that point and what happened on Katarr might not have happened.

[Allronix]

They got as far as Duro - and that's on the edge of the Core. They were pretty close to nailing the Republic and few characters outside the Jedi Council are going to try and refute that.

 

The Jedi Council failed to do their job. So Revan goes out to do it. Revan compounds the mistake by going DS and shredding the galaxy. The Jedi Council layer another mistake in slamming the door shut on the one guy who does march back peacefully - effectively telling any Jedi who wants to return not to bother. This leads to the rest of the Jedi who followed Revan AND the ones who were sympathetic to Revan defecting (and a good chunk of the non-Jedi, like Saul and Atton)- causing bigger problems.

 

And the Padawan massacare? Well, they kill their own on the basis of a vision without any other evidence. They compound the mess by trying to frame the one victim that got away. And the going speculation is that kid grows up to eat Katarr for supper.

 

And the same thing with Anakin - he tries so blooming hard to try and prevent his vision from coming true that he goes berzerk and...Force visions, over all, appear to give folks just enough rope to go hang themselves.

[Darth Avlectus]

Not sure about that.

 

I was the only one aside from the Jedi that hadn't dipped into the DS. Still...

 

Well, I'm certainly not for spinelessly playing with semantics; however long before all that stuff on mace windu, I was actually inspired with a philosophy of "using evil to destroy evil"; the way most percieve that as what the jedi do anyway--the way I saw it was being more real, and it allowed me the power, coldness, and focus to defeat evildoers. This is not necessarily new philosophy. You are no nice-y nice guy (or gal).

Gaining the intensity needed to give you an edge, yet letting it go before it corrupts you, and diplomacy when urgent matters require delicacy.

This was a description of a character from the darkstalkers animated series from capcom (the one where morrigan is NOT so much of a B*TCH for those in the know), one character who stood out to me was the fella with the big sword who was rebelling against it all. If I could only remember his name. He was no kindly guy; but in spite of being of evil nature he ultimately was good. Still, he was evil as needed. As the evil bushido like armor of another he defeated said "he uses evil to destoy evil. I DON'T GET IT!"

 

The more I look at Star Wars, the more I wonder if the Jedi don't really fall into the category of "necessary evil." Or if the Force was meant for growing, culling, and sustaining life, but was never meant to be tapped into or used like it was. Or if Kreia actually could be right, and that the Force is far from benign or controllable.

 

I think we all wonder...but honestly there is no real answer I could give you; you must find it yourself. As must all of us.....each and every one of you reading this.

 

All I know is that good can only reign so long and evil can only reign so long. Overall it itself is grey. I'm not convinced the force necessarily has sides to it nor that it as a whole is individual; I am convinced that it has personality--like Khavar, sometimes a "sense of humor" though.

 

Oh, by the way, Allronix, I am conservative. What do you think of me now?

Well, Actually, I am realist in politics. Still... Though I may have come up positive for need of gov't aid, I scoff and balk at it.

 

Rather than the wellfare state, I am in support of the freefare state. Free in the relative sense; I love capitalism. Inevitably, without certain regulations in control, however it tears itself apart. The responsibility of it is the same as a democratic republic; it is not free in that we must take responsibility and maintain it. A 100% unrestrained market is monopolized and therefore not longer free. It must therefore be kept free by another means. Still we too must take care that gov't rule is not too prominent--especially where it fights itself and contradicts. As an example Decency VS censorship. Believe it or not, they are not the same thing.

 

Do you see ME as corporate facist?

 

As far as case for the empire, lots of POV and semantic arguments by putzy @$$holes dent credibility. Though one thing is true--If it were not for the empire, the new republic would not be present. Many who were otherwise indifferent mercs, would not have found their new life.

 

I'd like to see someone try to argue that.

 

Same is true for disasters; disaster tends to bring everybody closer. With the Angora fire, I tell you what, I never saw so much outpour from community, so much unity. Charitable donations and volunteering were so big that after a certain point, they were turned away.

 

Necessity is the mother of all invention as one wise person once said.

Problems and obstacles are needed to be overcome; as I have said before CONFLICT brings purpose. That's the only way trial happens for growth and progress.

[PoiuyWired]

Again, the Mandalorians are not as strong as people say it is. They seem to be barbarians, raging the Outer Rim, and not actually able to destroy the galaxy's center. Revan, however, can.

 

Actually reading on their tactics, they are not as barbaric as some would wish to believe. They are warlike, and trive on conquering. They fight with some code of honor even. They try to make the republic face them in war.

 

But under all these, they conquer worlds, and unlike some might think, they don't destroy and torture everything in their path if they can help it, in fact they would prefer not to destroy civilian targets. So they are just another type of conquerers.

 

Oh yes, in case you are wondering, those war like civilizations they conquer are more than welcomed to join them in their cause, as some have done once and again.

[Corinthian]

The Jedi are superheroes. Each one wields more power than any creature has the right to, which is a bad thing. Absolute power corrupts. Frankly, the galaxy would be better off without any Force-Sensitives. 99% of the problems in the galaxy are caused by Sith Lords or Dark Jedi or something similar, and even the ones that aren't, like the Mandalorian Wars, wouldn't have been a problem since the Mandalorian Wars were started partially because the Republic was already weakened by the war with Exar Kun. Yeah, the Jedi stop the Bad Guys in the end, but only after countless millions are already dead.

 

Aside from that, the Galaxy would have been much better off if Revan had overthrown the Republic and put in place a relatively benevolent dictatorship. Revan was smart enough to know that terrorizing the populace would just cause him problems in the long run, plus he had the foresight not to blow up everything he was trying to conquer . As for him eventually going Evil because of the Dark Side, I don't buy into that. Hell, we don't even know if Revan was really a darksider prior to being mindwiped. Being a Dark Lord of the Sith is just a title associated with the Dark Side.

[PoiuyWired]

So you are suppporting Kreia's "kill the force" movement?

 

Well, technically when you mindwipe someone you don't wipe away their alignment, just their memory, I guess.

 

If the starting alignment of the game is any sort of indicator, then Revan is pretty neutral. A big time heretic yes, but not much more evil than most politician in the old republic. In fact, he seems to be quite a neutral guy.

 

As for blaming the force for many of the events. I think the force is just a catalyst, many of those stuff can still happen, arbit at a slower pace, with other tech and equipment. I mean, een without the force, palpy with his schemeing can probably still take over the republic, only problem being his possable death at the hands of some jedi terrorists. Revan can probably still storm the Mandalorians and the Republic with ease, with or without the force, by sheer tactical genious and charisma.

 

Well, if you ask me I would say Yes, revan would rule the Galaxy in a fairly reasonable way, but so what? I mean, Revan is but a person, and he is probably not going to be around for eternalty, and the chaos would come eventually, just as expacted. But at least, there is a time of relative peace of sorts.

 

Now lets look at the jedi's Decision. By not acting you would allow Mandalorians to build up a huge empire. Unfortunately this may not be enough to take over all major parts of the galaxy. So the resault may well be a prolonged state of war. Oh yeah, that is much much better than whatever Revan puts into motion, or so says the jedis.

[Corinthian]

It's just another self-fulfilling prophecy, like the Taris Padawan Massacre. The Jedi Masters are incredibly stupid, to the point of danger. They're arrogant to the Nth Degree...if the entire Jedi Order had rallied behind the Republic during the Mandalorian Wars, The Jedi Civil War would never even have happened, and the First Purge definitely wouldn't have.

[Allronix]

GTA:SWcity, I sent you a PM on the political stuff. The short answer is that working for a living and being laid off pretty much killed my faith in the free market. Unless you're the king or the CEO, it doesn't seem to have much to offer. The article itself, though, regarding the "Case for Empire" is pretty much classical fascist doctrine - the unity of the state behind a single dictator or cabal, ruling through fear because the "little people" cannot be trusted to govern themselves, and generous amounts of wanton slaughter to make damn sure the "little people" keep to their place.

 

This "little people" argument, to get it back on track here, underscores the most damning similarity in the two Force schools. Adherents of both believe their capacity to manipulate energy makes them above and apart from other mortals. It's not good to pollute yourself by getting attached to them, as they weaken you and impede your power (Sith) or impair rational thought and stir up evil passions (Jedi). The force-deaf, in turn become sheep to tend, since you have the wisdom and enlightenment to decide for them (Jedi) , or they are minions and livestock to slaughter and feast upon to strengthen yourself (Sith). Either way? You're still cattle to a saber-swinger.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, face it, there are some beings that are "more sentiant" than other sentiants. Same is true even real life. People are only equal to a certain degree, some are actually born smarter, faster, stronger, prettier, etc... And there are those who get every short end of the stick.

 

I mean, its kinda reasonable to be arrogant towards the weaker ones, isn't it? Cause they ARE weaker!! Its kinda like natural selection. The Sith at least ADMITS that they think/know they are ABOVE THE WEAK.

 

The jedis on the other hand are HUGE HIPPO CRATES. They say they are just like anyone else, yet their actions around the world... its like a bunch of demi-gods from those Greek myths. They do what THEY THINK is right, sometimes well ignore whatever rules and laws of the lesser beings. No wonder people are fearful of Jedis. Well, that jedi you see might either help you, make a nice deal with you(which is rare) or screw you up cause they think YOU defy THEIR JEDI MORALS.

 

Well, sure, you are pretty much screwed if you see a sith coming. But at least you know they don't care much about YOUR ACTIONS if they get what THEY NEED, and if they kill you for fun its just... for fun. If they trash your trade empire it is because it suits THEIR NEEDS. But the Jedis would trash your party because IT IS AGAINST THEIR WHIM.

 

Yet beyond all those they would turtle up when big things happen, and would have they endless meditation sections and discussion and tea parties until it is all too late.

 

Actually, The Jedi Massace thing is not the idea of the jedis anyways, it is only the decision of a few individuals(4 masters, and two others) IF ONLY JEDIS WOULD GENERALLY ACT LIKE THAT. Then for better or worse things might not be half as bad. I mean, At least Lucien & Co Try to Do Something About A Situation Rather Than Mdeitation 903475257 years about their visions.

 

While this might be a self-fufilling prophecy, I am sure if such vision is seen by other jedis they would just(effectively) sit there, and wait for the thing to happen.