"ATATs can build infinite number of troops..."

[popcorn2008]

Sorry, but for some people, realism is a factor WITHIN gameplay. For me, a modest part of gameplay is realism. Yeah, being too realistic is boring and just bothersome... but for me personally, being too unrealistic ruins gameplay for me. Being able to just purely "manufacture" stormtroopers from scrap metal just seems TOO unrealistic for my tastes. I'd rather the special ability would be something like being able to carry extra troops and they wouldn't count against the population limit or something like that. And they're protected by the AT-AT armor in the whole battle until they're called to the ground, etc.

I agree that for gameplay to be fun that their must be realism as well. I think the unlimited troops/ships is fine though. Of course, everyone can have their own opinions.

[aggie_john]

I like the option. From what I have seen the troopers are on a timer where you can produce a squad every few minutes or so, which means they wount overwhelm the rebels to bad. Yet it feels very Imperial that they seem to have unlimited amounts of troops and vehicles even if they are cannon fatter.

[StealthWar42]

Yeah, agreed popcorn (on the opinions thing). I was just saying, "gameplay > realism" isn't an absolute, i guess.

 

But troops on a timer is good too... as long as the troops are "discarded" at the end of battles, and you can't just initiate a battle and make it last forever to make free troops to use on a galactic level.

[Snafu7]

I think that it's ok, I would prefer it if they could just carry troops, but as long as it dosen't allow you to create them rapidly, I'm ok with it. It should definately take 15 to 20 minutes to be able to have reinforcements.

[popcorn2008]

It should definately take 15 to 20 minutes to be able to have reinforcements.

Wow! That is way too long. I was thinking maybe 3-7 minutes tops. In terms of an RTS 15 to 20 mins is a long time! Its not like it deploys 30 troops at a time either, it only drops off around 10 or so, at least thats what I get from the movie.

[Snafu7]

well, I think that it should change depending on the difficulty level, the harder the difficulty level, the more time you have to wait.

[popcorn2008]

well, I think that it should change depending on the difficulty level, the harder the difficulty level, the more time you have to wait.

Yeah I like that idea. They should generally have all special abilities be based on difficulty.

[R1ob6]

Maybe its not on the timer maybe it can only deploy new troops after the troops it deployed are destroyed.

[Cavkov]

Guys they are only Stormtroopers nothing more.. its just alittle reinforcements to protect the AT-AT i dont think those soldiers can turn a tide in a battle..

[Armi]

Well, I think producing crap troops at a SD or AT-AT is ok as long as it is a staged thing, a special power with a cooldown, otherwise I don't see how the rebels could win unless they outnumbered the imperials to begin with, which shouldn't happen until near the end. The timer for it would have to be dependant on the game speed and how quickly troops get killed. The faster the pace the quicker the timer.

[Athanasios]

If an ATAT can carry 40 troops and 2 ATSTs like Nuke said, who needs 9 troops? Also, we'd better not stick to the ATAT, since it's not the only heavy unit in the game. Rebs also have carrier, so, should it move around leaving 9 troops here and there?

 

DMUK said in another thread that if an SD hanger is shot (Mon Calamaris for rebs?) then the ability to launch squads of ties is disabled. This does make sense and balances the whole game. So, if an ATAT could be shot in the place where troops jump off and disable its "special ability", then this would be ok; yet, ATAT and all ground vehicle do seem a "mass", without critical points (in contrast to the space stations and spaceships).

 

Besides, i don't think rebs will have the same ability to launch unlimited X-Wings, first of all because X-Wings can handle easily the Ties squads, and also because rebs' economics are a bit "tight"

 

So, if a funtion can build infitine units from nowhere, while the other just cant, then this should impact to the balance of the game.

 

PS: I have no personal reasons to attack Petro, besides the guys have done great work since now. But ALL the RTS i have played have some flows. What i'm discussing looks as "flow" to me, and i'd just like to know that i have stated my disagreement before the game comes out and not looking for a mod when the game comes out.

[Admiral Sith]

Every unit in the game will have a special ability, heroes will have to IE: Vaders Force Crush and Choke. The Imperial Star Destroyer will be able to launch a squad or two of low power TIEs, while the AT-AT will be able to deploy a squad of Stormtroopers. Im guessing that the Interdictors special ability is Gravity Cone

[darthfergie]

Besides, i don't think rebs will have the same ability to launch unlimited X-Wings, first of all because X-Wings can handle easily the Ties squads, and also because rebs' economics are a bit "tight"

 

So, if a funtion can build infitine units from nowhere, while the other just cant, then this should impact to the balance of the game.

I think you overestimate the power of X-wings. X-wings may have shields, but the TIE fighters are far more agile and faster than X-wings. TIE fighters don't lose 10 per every one X-wing. On the contrary I think at best the average would be something like 1.5 TIE fighters lost per every X-wing.

 

Guys they are only Stormtroopers nothing more.. its just alittle reinforcements to protect the AT-AT i dont think those soldiers can turn a tide in a battle..

Sure they can. When you only have vehicles and are assaulting an enemy base and you realize you don't have any troops, the only way you are going to be able to capture an enemy base is with troops. AT-ATs supply the necessary ground assualt forces. Stormies arn't just throw away units like in GB. They are essential to a successful assault.

 

 

I personally don't have an issue with the AT-AT and SD creating units as a special ability, same with a Mon Cal. However I'd have a slight problem if the rebels had a Juggernaught type vehicle and it also made troops. That would annoy me because the Devs have said repeated how different the sides are. Instead of using an equal measure of force, I think the Rebels will have stealth and many other powerful special abilities on their side, while the Imperials I think will mainly get by on brute force and not the special abilities of their side.

 

Then again, an arguement against launching rebel fighters from their capital ships is this: Rebel fighters have hyperdrive. They don't need to be launched from a launch bay to fight. Where as for the Imperials it's a virtual requirement since pretty much none of their fighters have hyperdrive except for the Advanced and the Defender.

[Darth_Extas]

I agree with Fergie because the basis of taking over a base involves troopers and without them the attack is close to meaningless. In terms of building them mid-battle, I don't they would allow that to happen, so you could build tie and troopers on the planet but not in battle i.e. The Galactic Map

[Thrawn]

If you're winning a battle enough to be able to take over the base, then there was never any need to "turn the tide" of the battle because you were already winning. True, if you want to capture them than troops will be useful, but 9 troops will not change the outcome of an entire battle, just the way in which you end one that has already been won.

 

X-wings can slaughter TIEs. In the first movie they make it seem even but that was more for drama sake than anything else. Play any of the X-wing games and watch the AI wingmates plow through waves of Imperial fighters.

 

I don't have a problem with the special ability. I won't look at it as each unit "manufacturing" the units, just like they were always there as a reserve force being released.

[Jmaster3265]

I like the option. From what I have seen the troopers are on a timer where you can produce a squad every few minutes or so, which means they wount overwhelm the rebels to bad. Yet it feels very Imperial that they seem to have unlimited amounts of troops and vehicles even if they are cannon fatter.

 

 

Seen or think? From previous posts I thought its been said they CAN produce unlimited troops but we don't know the limit and how long...

[lukeiamyourdad]

Play any of the X-wing games and watch the AI wingmates plow through waves of Imperial fighters.

 

Play Tie Fighter and see how Tie's plow through Rebel fighters

 

 

It's all relative really. To be realistic, the game would have to measure pilot skill, which is pretty much impossible.

Thus, the only way to balance both sides is to have the X-Wing much stronger then the numerically superior Tie Fighter.

 

As for the main topic, I don't really care. I think it's a cool special ability and I don't care that much about "how many soldiers can an AT-AT carry".

[aggie_john]

Yeah in that new video they showed a squad of stormies repelling down from the ATAT I dont think it just produces millions rather unlimited squads but at a set time interval as an option. The ATAT's special ability.

[Athanasios]

 

It's all relative really. To be realistic, the game would have to measure pilot skill, which is pretty much impossible.

Thus, the only way to balance both sides is to have the X-Wing much stronger then the numerically superior Tie Fighter.

 

Actually, pilot skill (and generally "skills") can be implemented in a RTS with the "experience" points, not only by adding shields or more hit points/damage. An experienced Xwing pilot should better be more agile, faster and tougher. Yet, i don't know if there are experience points in the game, although there's has been no confirmation of no experience system either.

 

I just hope rebels are not made too weak as in Force Commander. Afterall, ALL trailers show off the Imperial side...................

[Thrawn]

There are no experience points in the game for the grunts. Heroes, I don't know.

[darthfergie]

X-wings can slaughter TIEs. In the first movie they make it seem even but that was more for drama sake than anything else. Play any of the X-wing games and watch the AI wingmates plow through waves of Imperial fighters.

ditto to Luke's comment about TIE Fighter or even X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter where you can go one on one with human opponents and TIE Fighters still end up spacing X-wings half the time. It is just a game. A game where there is an enhanced importance on you surviving or else it's game over. In this game however, there is none of that importance on your X-wing squadrons, nor should it be placed there.

 

Read any of the books and find that TIE Fighters weren't slaughtered. Even the Rogue Squadron, one of the most talented X-wing units out there loses pilots on a regular basis.

One thing people tend to assume about the Rebels is that all of their pilots are as talented as the ones in Rogue Squadron. Rebel pilots are just naturally gifted. This is totally untrue. Throughout the books it is repeatedly shown that planetary defense forces are slaughtered by the academy trained imperials in their TIE Fighters. The imperial fighter pilots usually have extensive training and many are VERY talented. Don't tell me that Baron Fel is just a pushover because he flies a TIE Fighter. He has no shields yet can outfly and kill countless X-wings with shields.

It has also been stated repeatedly in the books that TIE Fighters have the edge in manueverability and speed, where the X-wings have the advantage in endurance and payload. Each side seems to have only a slight advantage over the other. TIE Fighters don't let X-wings go head to head with them, they outmanuever them and fry them and this strategy works very sucessfully throughout the Expanded Universe. X-wing pilots respect TIE Fighters as a danger, TIE Fighters respect X-wings as a danger. There is no "X-wings always slaughter TIE Fighters" anywhere in the books or in the movies.

[Lew]

It has to be fun, or it doesn't matter. Keep in mind they've done something none of us have- they've played the game a LOT. Keeping micro out of the mundane fighters/troops lets the player participate in larger, more strategic battles.

 

My *guess* that the way they do this is that a ship/inftransport can have a fixed number of fighters/troops on the map at any one time. Example: if you can have one unit of troops deployed from your ATAT, you can't deploy another set until the first one is removed from play somehow (even if your "special ability" timer is up).

 

Same thing for "autoheal." Spending 75% of your time lategame shuttling fighter units around, swapping out units that are depleted, moving damaged ground units into ships (and then moving them to other planets, then unloading them, then clicking to put them in a repair queue, and then doing it all in reverse to get them back), moving your cap ships to the few places that have yards to fix them (and then putting them in the queue and then moving them back to the front), etc.....

 

Well, it's not that fun. Sure, at the start of the game it is nice and makes things -nail biting-, but once you DO build your faction/forces, then it becomes a major impediment to fun.

 

If we're lucky we'll get a game something like Star Wars: Total War (Rome TW in SW

 

If we're not lucky, we'll get a Rebellion joined with a Force Commander (eewwww!)

[Athanasios]

Lew, are you a Petro's dev? Who talked about "autoheal"?

[lukeiamyourdad]

It's well known actually, that the units auto-heal after every battle.

[Athanasios]

It's well known actually, that the units auto-heal after every battle.

 

I haven't read this anywhere....whatever