Dagobahn Eagle Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 OK, so I live in Bergen, Norway, "the gateway to the fjords", an idyllic 250 000-people city on the West Coast of Norway. And so far during my 17-year stay in the city, I've come across... 6 McDonald's "resturants". 2 Burger King "resturants". Several stores selling US clothing. Sometimes I wonder if we should add some stars and stripes to our flag. I mean, half a dozen US fast-food stores in one little city with a quarter million people? For a corporation that abuses animals to the extreme (they've been known to skin pigs alive to speed up production, among other things - i'm lovin' it!), and serve food that's not even good enough to be called junk food, McDonald's and Burger King is sure popping up everywhere in the world like AIDS in Borboun Street. And it gets better. Go to the movie theatre and 90% of the movies are from guess where! Turn your TV on and you typically have four channels (unless you've got a sat dish or a cable): Two of them send almost exclusively US programmes. Now, the US makes and produces some really good stuff. I've got nothing against McGyver, Subway, E.T., or the Age of Empires series. And I have to say that Taco Bell and Jack-in-the-box make some pretty good food. However, the extent of American influence on the rest of the world is alarming to me, especially in countries with an endangered language (like the Scandinavian nations). Not to mention how it runs over all the good products from the other countries. Do Indians, Taiwanians (?), Mexicans or Israelies make good movies? I have no clue - 80% of the foreign movies in stores are from America. Hence: Is there too much Americanization? Is it the USA's fault, or the USA's responsibility to regulate it? What should be done? Personal opinion? Blame the people. If you're a shoemaker looking to make a living, which town do you set up in? Leftville where people love shoemakers, or Rightville where they walk around barefoot? People are pretty good at whining about American influence, but they are also good at jumping on the bandwagon and embracing the said influence with all they've got. It's not the White House's responsibility to bar export of American culture, nor is it the foreign congresses and parliaments' duty to ban the import of the said culture (though steps should, in my opinion, in many cases be taken to translate names of products, etc., to protect the nation's language. Iceland's a textbook example of how a tiny culture can survive by guarding its ways and language like a bitch guarding her pups). You want to stop Americanization? Well, stop using it. Get your fellow landsmen to stop using it. Then watch McDonald's, Friends, and The Incredibles slowly disappear out of your country. Movie theatres full of US movies? Blame the movie theatres that air the films, and the people who watch them. McDonald's muddy excuses for nutrition suppliers growing everywhere like weeds in an abandoned garden? Maybe that's because so many people go to McDonald's? Your thoughts? --Dagobahn Eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 Blame your nation, not ours. We didn't force it on your country, they allowed it to come in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Agreed. If the American companies didn't make a profit there, they would soon evaporate. If you can get your population not to buy American products and services, then they will go away, and you won't have to worry about it anymore. But somebody must want them, otherwise they wouldn't be there. As far as movies or TV: Most nations don't make a lot of entertainment that translates well across cultural lines. And no nation has an entertainment industry with the budgets and distribution channels of Hollywood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 Aw, c'mon, can't someone disagree with me? This is a debate forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Aw, c'mon, can't someone disagree with me? This is a debate forum! America is good. Embrace the good you filthy foreigner. Is that enough of a debate for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted December 18, 2005 Author Share Posted December 18, 2005 Is that enough of a debate for you? It'll do for now:p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 My only problem is their choices of american trends to embrace. **** if I need an entire world of Paris Hilton worshipping whores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 I don't understand why anyone can blame American companies and culture and whatever the hell else we're exporting on us. It's just people wanting to blame someone else for something that's their own damned fault. Which is actually pretty high up there on American values, so it looks like we've managed to export that one too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Yes, it is irritating to see good products be replaced with bad products. But the problem is that people buy crap, not that the crap comes from America. If America disappeared right this minute and took all the crap it produces with it (not to imply that it produces only crap - not by a long shot), a new producer of crap would fill out the empty market like liquid nitrogen in vacuum. Of course there are instances where products are forced out by unfair competition - but that's a whole 'nother ball game. And the Scandinavian languages, BTW, aren't endangered. Not by a long shot. It's just people wanting to blame someone else for something that's their own damned fault. Which is actually pretty high up there on American values, so it looks like we've managed to export that one too Nope, we're fully able to match our domestic demand as it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Americanization is not forced upon any countries. If they choose to accept that, it's their choice. It's like blaming someone for liking chicken, telling a friend about it, and getting them to like it as well. I wholeheartedly agree with you about McDonald's. The food there is absolute slop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 I wholeheartedly agree with you about McDonald's. The food there is absolute slop. The cheezeburgers, in McDonald's defense, are worth it for a dollar. I know I die a little with each bite, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 The cheezeburgers, in McDonald's defense, are worth it for a dollar. Doesn't it worry anyone when you can buy so much food for so little? It sometimes make you wonder what on earth can be in it for them to make a profit. I usually decide on foam. It isn't America's fault. It isn't really even the fault of the specific companies involved. Its a side effect of Capitalism, globalisation and human nature. You could possibly argue that communism at least provided some form of check on the rise of capitalism, and that now it is growing unchecked. The majority of the problems that affect the world today (whether social, dietary in the west or debt and starvation in the 3rd world) are a result of the fact that unchecked capitalism leads to the strongest absorbing the weaker and becoming gigantic. I suspect it's "rose tinted spectacles time" but the world would seem to be a much more interesting, varied and healthy place if these gigantic corporations didn't have so much power, if suppliers got fair money for their produce, if there was more of a range of smaller shops selling less overproduced food, and if producers in the 3rd world could compete fairly with subsidised products from the west. But then again, i'd actually have to WALK to different shops to do my shopping, and that mcD cheeseburge would be more like $5. With the slow fall of america's power and the rise of india and china it will be interesting to see if the world starts to become more Serenity like, with more chinese influenced products. And if they ever manage to agree fair trade for the 3rd world (failed again this week) then some of the low prices that support these giant american organisations are going to be a thing of the past. But then again, these giant organisations now have more power than many small countries, so maybe we are haeding for one of those sci-fi futures were the corporations rule all. Read jennifer government Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted December 21, 2005 Author Share Posted December 21, 2005 Sometimes I wonder if they actually do, at least in some countries... Read jennifer government I will. I will. I read a part of it at Amazon.com, and from what little I read, it was awesome:D. As was the game made to advertise it (NationStates). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 While you're at it, read Fast Food Nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 While you're at it, read Fast Food Nation. I have to agree, good book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rccar328 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 International Americanization is nothing but globalistic capitalism. I have to agree with what others have said - the Americanization of other nations (specifically, through commercial ventures) wouldn't have taken place without the consent of the nations being Americanized. What gets me is why so many people see Americanization as a bad thing. If it's bad, get rid of it. If it's bad, why did it happen in the first place? If it's bad, then why is America so successful? I just don't get the premise of the anti-Americanization argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 If it's bad, why did it happen in the first place? Well... most people are morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted December 22, 2005 Author Share Posted December 22, 2005 What gets me is why so many people see Americanization as a bad thing. If it's bad, get rid of it. If terrorism is bad, get rid of it. If AIDS is bad, get rid of it. If rape is bad, get rid of it. You make it sound easy. I just don't get the premise of the anti-Americanization argument... Read my first post:). Well... most people are morons. I second that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I just don't get the premise of the anti-Americanization argument... Well, some of us believe that it would be nice that places keep their local culture and flavor. If you travel halfway around the world to visit a place, only to find out everything there looks, smells, tastes, and sounds exactly like the place you just left, and all the people look, think and talk just like the folks back home, what exactly have you gained with your travel? You might as well have just stayed home. Since it's primarily American culture and companies that seem to get exported that way, it tends to get argued as an anti-American issue,... although I personally think that you could level the argument at any huge multinational corporation that does the same thing (for example: Sony.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 What gets me is why so many people see Americanization as a bad thing. If it's bad, get rid of it. If it's bad, why did it happen in the first place? If it's bad, then why is America so successful? It doesn't necessarily follow that just because it happened its a good thing.. It isn't particularly anyone's fault, but it does have some bad side effects (although again they are mostly down to global capitalism rather than specifically america. Of course it also has some good effects too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rccar328 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 But enough people think it's a good enough thing to buy into it (literally)...that's all I was saying. It must have enough appeal to enough people, or it would have died out already...which means that, to those people, it is a positive thing. And I agree, from a sociological perspective, it does have both its up-side and its down-side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted December 26, 2005 Share Posted December 26, 2005 Doesn't necessarily follow that huge consumption means high quality. Look, for instance, at Microsoft. Their security protocols are the worst crap this side of ICQ. But they still sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhuf Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 About 250,000 residents in lovely Bergen for 8 US fast-food "restaurants." Lemme see, if my US public education serves me correctly that is about 31,250 residents per invasive restaurant, assuming equal probability of visit. That's not much of an invasion, at least per resident. Is there too much Americanization? That's entirely a matter of subjective opinion, naturally. For some, any sign of foreign influence is unnacceptable. We call them xenophobes here in the US. For the French in Marseille, apparently there were too many MacDonalds, several years ago, and the locals ransacked their own restaurant. Too much Americanization to me would probably have indicator signs, for example: -dissapearing language. You hear more English than Norwegian. -dissapearance in the 'local way of doing things' -dissapearance or unavailabilty of traditional foods, dress, leisure activities, relgious activity, architecture -loss or replacement of significant symbols with American symbols Is that happening in Bergen? My wife was there about 15 years ago and loved it for its uniqueness. Is it the USA's fault, or the USA's responsibility to regulate it? Well, there can be no 'Americanization' without 'America.' And of course as everyone has said, there has to be a non-US citizen who voluntarily 'consumes' the 'American' product, be it food, film, ideology, what have you. But policymakers believe it is in US economic, social, and political interests to export the US way of life aborad. What should be done? I never really understood European angst over this. Does eating at Burger King really diminish you as a Norwegian? You can still eat herring and feel good about your culture and place in the world. You can still watch 'War of the Worlds' and still ski with Norwegian pride. Or you can just not participate in any Yankee stuff. And for goodness sakes, protect your language! In general I think doing or making something that gives you a sense of place, culture, identity, and uniqueness might help repell the Yankee attack. Also, I think it's pretty shallow to assume that icons such as MacDonalds and Burger King represent the real America. There is so much more to the US than fast food and movies, as I hope you know from hopefully having visited. Btw the US culture is one descended from a European invasion of North America. So you brought it on yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I think it's hard for an American to see the influence of their culture upon another country. Of course, it's natural. I don't think it's such a big issue actually. They may seem invasive but American culture certainly doesn't totally dominate the whole world. Well, at least until Wal-Mart destroys everything... One thing I'm 100% sure about is that one day, when it'll be chinese or indian movies swallowing the market, when it'll be chinese and/or indian culture dominating the world, many Americans who said that the past Americanization of cultures was all stpid whining will be up their barricades screaming: "USA! USA!" against the chinese McWong fast food chain and Bollywood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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