Vladimir-Vlada Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yes, but they all ended up dead, now didn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackel Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yes the council ended up dead bur when Kreia said there was no Jedi there was. She is a lier. So who knows how many more Jedi are still hanging around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 As far as I remember; after the Jedi Masters were killed, the Exile was the only Jedi in the Galaxy. She may be a liar, but the Exile is still the only Jedi left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Those three she killed at Dantooine were not the only ones. Remember Vrook and Zez Kai Ell said that they have scattered. The devs only put those significant few in because they were pertinent to the story. You hear alot in EU about how there were Jedi hidden from the galaxy. Jolee himself was "lost" in the woods for forty years or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 RedHawke, I don't want to insult you or be in conflict with you. I respect you, but please let's not take this too personally. Where did this come from? My statements are quite valid. The Exile's story is done with the Death of Kreia. According to the entire calculus, the Republic will collapse in, approximatley, one month. Mainly due to the lack of both law integrity and economic crisis. G0-T0's quote is an appraisal of what happens if things progress as they had been, once the Sith Lords were defeated the problems to the Republic would diminish, it would take time to rebuild things. G0-T0 was a patriot of sorts who wanted galactic stability he didn't care if it were Jedi or Sith stability. The room of the thousand fountains remains empty, because there are no Jedi. Kreia's quote is taken entirely out of context, as that is from earlier in the game. The Jedi were all in hiding at that point. The Order is fractured, but not gone. See Jackel's posts above. I have said all I need to. Your choice of questions prove to me that you haven't played the game nearly enough to figure out what is actually going on, especially at the end. Or else you just want to argue for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I think some like a good argument RedHawke; they can't live without it I believe I said something similar that not all the Jedi were gone and I've pointed out the fact that they were scattered. We have lots of tales in EU about Jedi that escaped from the Emperor or were lost. As to G0-T0, he compared the Republic to a dejarik boards where one cannot see the opponent. I took that to mean he was making a comparison to the darkness manifesting beyond the Outer Rim. Then again he said he liked predictable games after all he was a droid and droids operate in calculations and binary codes. Still even Kreia referred to the events as a game of dejarik. No game of dejarik can be won without pawns and this may prove to be a very long game-Kreia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 G0-T0 was a patriot of sorts who wanted galactic stability he didn't care if it were Jedi or Sith stability. But in the end there were no Jedi or Sith, right? So the Republic will most likely fall. And the only thing that could happen is that the True Sith form an Empire. Kreia's quote is taken entirely out of context, as that is from earlier in the game. The Jedi were all in hiding at that point. The Order is fractured, but not gone. You sound like that instead of a few, there are thousands of Jedi that survived. It was stated clearly in the game several times that most of the Jedi were killed during the war and, after that, slaughtered on Katharr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 The planet is Katarr. The ones that weren't killed during the Jedi Civil War ended up switching off the lightsabers. The bounty didn't help either. I don't think RedHawke was implying that there were thousands still left. Not many were left but they were in hiding. I know that Dorak and Zhar died on Katarr but nothing said about Vandar so there is the possibility that there were others besides those on the council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego Varen Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I'm pretty sure that he died on Katarr as well JediMaster12. Otherwise he died on KOTOR if you were Dark Side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 True I suppose but I just don't buy it that it was just those we see on the holovid in TSL. There had to have been more but as Atton said, they switched off the lightsabers. Of course there are the Lost Jedi that the Exile trained but you know *shrugs shoulder* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I know that Dorak and Zhar died on Katarr but nothing said about Vandar so there is the possibility that there were others besides those on the council. I know. But there are still not enough to bring back the Jedi Order and the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igyman Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 @JediMaster12: Actually Vandar did die on Katarr, one of the Jedi Masters (I don't remember which one at this point) says so in your conversation with him. @Vladimir-Vlada: 1) There are plenty of them to restore the Jedi Order. All the other Jedi who were in hiding during TSL, Bastila and all your TSL party members who became Jedi. 2) The Republic will not fall until Palpatine (Darth Sidious) turns it into his Galactic Empire. That's the Star Wars universe history - the Old Republic, before the Galactic Empire and the New Republic, after Palpatine's death and the destruction of the second Death Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 1) There are plenty of them to restore the Jedi Order. All the other Jedi who were in hiding during TSL, Bastila and all your TSL party members who became Jedi. Who says that the party members will continue? And most of all, how would they manage to rebuild everything if the enemy already won? 2) The Republic will not fall until Palpatine (Darth Sidious) turns it into his Galactic Empire. That's the Star Wars universe history - the Old Republic, before the Galactic Empire and the New Republic, after Palpatine's death and the destruction of the second Death Star. It doesn't have to be absolute. Two or five years can easily be forgotten after fourt thousand years. The archives of the Republic aren't always complete, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igyman Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 The enemy lost - the three Sith Lords that were hunting down the Jedi were defeated. The Jedi Temple on Coruscant remains intact, all the Jedi have to do is to return there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 ...All the holocrons are missing, the galaxy hates the Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igyman Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 The galaxy doesn't hate the Jedi (if you think that because the people of Dantooine hate them the whole galaxy hates them too, you are wrong) and what holocrons are you talking about? The ones Atris took to Telos were Sith holocrons. P.S. This is my 100th post, hurray for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Not just on Dantooine, but on Nar Shadaa, Onderon, Telos, Peragus....just about every planet, in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igyman Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Nar Shadaa? They were hunted by bounty hunters there, the people of Nar Shadaa don't hate them, though. Peragus? The logs show that some workers wanted to sell the Exile to the Exchange and some were against it. Greed doesn't equal hate. Onderon?? Telos??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 True. In the words of Yoda, "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." The administration even laid down the law at Peragus that the Exile wasn't to be sold. The way I see it, people viewed the Jedi with suspicion or greed. To get back on topic, I believe I said I wanted a new PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 New PC. I don't want poor Revan to have to lose his/her memory and force powers _again_! :-) From a player point of view: 1. I want to try a new character. I've already played Revan and Exile. If I want to play them again, I can go back and play those games. While I do want to find out what happens to Revan/Exile in K3, I'm perfectly content to let my own character find out their story as a part of the game. That way, I don't have to deal with the 'lost the force issue'--I can just start as a new Padawan with incredible force potential who gets training and then goes out to save/conquer the universe. 2. I don't want someone pre-determining skills/feats/alignment/etc. for me on Revan or Exile, and the writers would have to do that to a certain extent. I sure don't want to spend an hour at the beginning of K3 building out Revan or Exile to get to the game. When TSL came out, I couldn't wait to get past the character creation screen and into the game itself, and I know I'll feel the same in K3. When K3 finally does come out, I don't want to spend a ton of time creating the character at the beginning based on who I thought my ideal Revan/Exile was in the first 2 games. 3. The game needs to be relatively stand-alone so that you can play K3 without having to have played the first 2. Not every player who will play K3 will have played 1 or 2 first. There are any number of people who have played TSL without having played K1 first. TSL and K3 are not modules of K1, they're separate games. These new players aren't going to have a clue on how to build out a Revan or Exile if they've never played those games before. While the games can be linked in a small (or not-so-small) way story-wise, they still need to all be independent games. From a writing point of view--writing dialog trees is challenging. If you put Revan _or_ the Exile in the story, you have to come up with 4 variations of some dialog (M/F, DS/LS). If you have both Revan _and_ Exile, you have to have 16 variations of some dialog (four squared--if you draw out diagrams for each permutation, it's easier to picture). While I'm not a professional writer, I do enjoy writing to some degree, but I would find it really boring to write 16 versions of the same dialog in some places to accommodate the multiple choices and then try to write responses based on all 16 choices. If you have multiple responses to 16 different possibilities, it rapidly becomes a nightmare to write and track everything and maintain good story continuity. It's much easier to come up with a new 'clean' story that can stand on its own with or without Revan/Exile info, and then add some Revan/Exile stories in for those of us who've played before to satisfy our curiosity on how their stories played out. Do I want to find out what happens with Revan/Exile? You bet. However, I want my own new character to go off adventuring in new ways. The SW galaxy's a big place with lots of cool things to do and people to meet. I don't want to be locked in to someone else's idea of who/what Revan and Exile were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 The galaxy doesn't hate the Jedi (if you think that because the people of Dantooine hate them the whole galaxy hates them too, you are wrong) Actally, everyone does hate the Jedi. It was stated at many places... Especially on Nar Shadaa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 But in the end there were no Jedi or Sith, right? So the Republic will most likely fall. And the only thing that could happen is that the True Sith form an Empire. You sound like that instead of a few, there are thousands of Jedi that survived. It was stated clearly in the game several times that most of the Jedi were killed during the war and, after that, slaughtered on Katharr. There happen to likely be far more than one surviving Jedi in the time of TSL. The Jedi went into hiding, hiding means no one knows you are there. Aspects of this will have to be explained in KotOR III yes, but it is far easier to do this story-wise than you think. I know. But there are still not enough to bring back the Jedi Order and the Republic. Stop it man you are killing me! Seriously this is pure comedy! If we know anything about Star Wars it would be that only one Jedi needs to survive for the Order to come back... In the case of KotOR II:TSL not all Jedi are confirmed dead, only rumored dead, there is a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Source Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 New PC. I don't want poor Revan to have to lose his/her memory and force powers _again_! :-) From a player point of view: 1. I want to try a new character. I've already played Revan and Exile. If I want to play them again, I can go back and play those games. While I do want to find out what happens to Revan/Exile in K3, I'm perfectly content to let my own character find out their story as a part of the game. That way, I don't have to deal with the 'lost the force issue'--I can just start as a new Padawan with incredible force potential who gets training and then goes out to save/conquer the universe. 2. I don't want someone pre-determining skills/feats/alignment/etc. for me on Revan or Exile, and the writers would have to do that to a certain extent. I sure don't want to spend an hour at the beginning of K3 building out Revan or Exile to get to the game. When TSL came out, I couldn't wait to get past the character creation screen and into the game itself, and I know I'll feel the same in K3. When K3 finally does come out, I don't want to spend a ton of time creating the character at the beginning based on who I thought my ideal Revan/Exile was in the first 2 games. 3. The game needs to be relatively stand-alone so that you can play K3 without having to have played the first 2. Not every player who will play K3 will have played 1 or 2 first. There are any number of people who have played TSL without having played K1 first. TSL and K3 are not modules of K1, they're separate games. These new players aren't going to have a clue on how to build out a Revan or Exile if they've never played those games before. While the games can be linked in a small (or not-so-small) way story-wise, they still need to all be independent games. From a writing point of view--writing dialog trees is challenging. If you put Revan _or_ the Exile in the story, you have to come up with 4 variations of some dialog (M/F, DS/LS). If you have both Revan _and_ Exile, you have to have 16 variations of some dialog (four squared--if you draw out diagrams for each permutation, it's easier to picture). While I'm not a professional writer, I do enjoy writing to some degree, but I would find it really boring to write 16 versions of the same dialog in some places to accommodate the multiple choices and then try to write responses based on all 16 choices. If you have multiple responses to 16 different possibilities, it rapidly becomes a nightmare to write and track everything and maintain good story continuity. It's much easier to come up with a new 'clean' story that can stand on its own with or without Revan/Exile info, and then add some Revan/Exile stories in for those of us who've played before to satisfy our curiosity on how their stories played out. Do I want to find out what happens with Revan/Exile? You bet. However, I want my own new character to go off adventuring in new ways. The SW galaxy's a big place with lots of cool things to do and people to meet. I don't want to be locked in to someone else's idea of who/what Revan and Exile were. I knew I hired you as editor for some reason.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 There happen to likely be far more than one surviving Jedi in the time of TSL. The Jedi went into hiding, hiding means no one knows you are there. Aspects of this will have to be explained in KotOR III yes, but it is far easier to do this story-wise than you think. What do you mean by story-wise? If we know anything about Star Wars it would be that only one Jedi needs to survive for the Order to come back... Yes. Under the condition that it has an armada and army to support it. And under the condition that the one Jedi agrees to restore it (which in this case, didn't happen. Since the Exile left to fight). In the case of KotOR II:TSL not all Jedi are confirmed dead, only rumored dead, there is a big difference. I see... First there was the Great Sith War, which weakened them all in the first place. Then there was the Great hunt, to stop terentatek from eating the Jedi. Then there was the Mandalorian war, in which a third of (leftovers of) the Jedi Order to fight, in which also many Jedi died. Then there was the Jedi Civil War, in which were Jedi specifically killed along with millions of people. Then there were the slaughteres made by the remenants of the Sith. Then there was the slaughter on Katarr. Then there was the bounty and finally, the final assault of the Sith. And after all that, there are still Jedi remaining. Yeah. Those Jedi sure are invincible, aren't they? Better open a hunting season now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastila Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I want to go back to being Revan and having the same party members and finsih the whole KOTOR stroy and maybe see the Exile on the way as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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