Anti-gay church protests at soldiers’ funerals

[Kurgan]

Btw, I forgot to say this before, but I think the notion that GWB got elected solely because he was "strongly against gay marriage" to be a gross oversimplification. I mean is there any polling data to suggest there is any substance to such a claim? And no, claiming that some people considered Bush's pandering to "Christians" to be self-evident doesn't cut it. Sorry to harp on that after the fact, I just thought I'd throw that in.

[manoman81]

I am all for freedom of speech. People have a right to say what is on their minds. However, I think that there is a time and a place for it. Regardless of who's funeral it is, soldier or not, protesting like that is just pathetic. And linking the war to protecting gays specifically is just a perverted thought to me. Aren't these same soldiers dieing for these whack jobs' freedom too? I don't know. I just disagree with this "church" entirely. If I had a bike and enough time on my hands, I would probably join the biker group that is helping the families at the funerals.

[Tinny]

Aye, same here.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

The family members attending the funeral should be allowed to take the gun of the fallen soldier to the funeral with them. Nothing says "Shut the f*** up!" like a 7.62 mm round traveling at ~5000 feet per second. This way people can only protest if they have the guts to defend that right, just like the soldiers who they're protesting did.

[Jae Onasi]

I used to live in Topeka, KS where these folks have their 'church.'

Rev. Phelps may be older, but the movement may not stop when he passes on--some of his children are just as active as he is, and I've noticed one of his family members doing the TV circuit lately so I don't know if the movement will die with him or not. It is true that the church is small and made up of family members mainly. I don't believe the membership is as high as 200, and it might be 100-150 if they're counting all children in their membership.

In Topeka, it was a weekly (if not more often) occurrence to see their people out on a particular street corner, carrying rather graphic signs about how God hates gays. It was quite a shock when we first moved there, and I consider it a blight on what is otherwise a fine city. Eventually, we got used to them and either ignored them or laughed at what incredibly stupid signs they'd made up for that occasion. What really disturbed me was that they had young children carrying these signs around, too, during what would be considered normal school hours (I assume they're home-schooling in that case). I hope that Social services has the guts to follow up on any potential child abuse allegations but I'm not holding my breath because they are scared of lawsuits.

Indeed, this group and Phelps are not affiliated with any Baptist organization. As someone who generally follows the Baptist church, I find their use of 'Baptist' in their church name incredibly offensive. Their extremist views do not represent mainstream evangelical or fundamentalist beliefs anymore than bin Ladin represents mainstream Islam.

I don't know how much of the Wikipedia articles on him or the church is accurate. I do not doubt that Beaver's no-arrest policy was in play during the time I was there since there was such little news on any arrests, and that group was confrontational.

Behaviors that include alcohol/drug/physical abuse, obsessive behaviors, and actions such as staying in a house for days on end are consistent with mental illness as described in any mental health texts. I doubt he believes he has a problem.

They are extremely legal savvy--I don't know how many of them are lawyers, but it's more than a couple.

They push the envelope on legal issues of freedom of speech and right to assembly, and they do not hesitate to take legal action on anyone who tries to hamper them. Those few who have tried to physically attack them have found themselves in jail (not that anyone should get a break on assault and battery, but they don't hesitate to press charges). The group is indeed more than willing to file any number of lawsuits, and the community fears the suits because even if it's found to be frivolous, it still costs time and money to sit in court to defend oneself.

I find their picketing of a soldiers' funerals reprehensible. However, if they're within the letter of the law and the Constitution, then we need to be very careful. We don't want to trample on freedom of speech laws indiscriminantly just to stop a small group of whack-jobs (whatever the flavor of weird a group may be)

The only way to stop them is through legislative means, though I would not be surprised to see them challenge any laws KS or Topeka might pass on restricting protests at funerals or other activities all the way to the Supreme court. Counter protests may be effective if peaceful. I don't doubt that this 'church' would relish the attention they'd receive if any protests became violent. Media attention will only make the situation worse, unfortunately.

I don't know if that helps with perspective, but there it is.

[The Hidden One]

The daughter of the founder was on Hannity and Colmes a few nights ago and she believed in what she was saying so strongely, it shocked and angered me. They apperentley believe in the 10 Commandments literally and fully and belive anybody that disobeys in any way will burn in hell. This "church" is sick and angers me to the breaking point to see them out there protesting, I just wanna go there and just plant an IED underneath them and watch the fireworks.

 

 

Whew.

 

 

Okay, not really but someting has to be done to these scum.

[TK-8252]

The daughter of the founder was on Hannity and Colmes a few nights ago and she believed in what she was saying so strongely, it shocked and angered me. They apperentley believe in the 10 Commandments literally and fully and belive anybody that disobeys in any way will burn in hell. This "church" is sick and angers me to the breaking point to see them out there protesting, I just wanna go there and just plant an IED underneath them and watch the fireworks.

 

Yeah, I saw that too (hey, I watch FOX News too... for the shock value ). Fred Phelps himself was on Scarborough Country on MSNBC. His daughter is essentially a clone of him, just preaching the same nonsense to the viewers.

[Jae Onasi]

The daughter of the founder was on Hannity and Colmes a few nights ago and she believed in what she was saying so strongely, it shocked and angered me. They apperentley believe in the 10 Commandments literally and fully and belive anybody that disobeys in any way will burn in hell. This "church" is sick and angers me to the breaking point to see them out there protesting, I just wanna go there and just plant an IED underneath them and watch the fireworks.

 

 

Whew.

 

 

Okay, not really but someting has to be done to these scum.

 

One of the few times when Hannity and Colmes agreed completely with each other.

 

We found it was just easiest to ignore them when they were in town. As long as they were just holding up signs and walking around talking, it was easy to do. Or we'd just take a different route home so we wouldn't see them at all.

The non-violent counter protests are going to do much more good. If someone kills one of these folks, they'll just view them as martyrs, and it won't stop them.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Or they'll somehow realize that his faith was dwindling, and push that his murder was God's punishment for his "sudden corruption".

[Good Sir Knight]

These folks are a disgrace to their religeon, being a Baptist myself I'm constantly astounded and embarassed at their ignorance and hatred.

 

If they actually read the Bible and practiced the Lord's teaching they wouldn't be the way they are.

 

They hijacked Christianity just like how Osama hijacked Islam. They really have so much in common its laughable.

 

Do they have the right to protest at a funeral? Well...that's a sticky issue and I'm not sure if I have the answer.

 

If they showed up to one of my family members funerals, they would pay dearly...oh so dearly...and I'd be happy to go to jail for that.

 

 

 

They apperentley believe in the 10 Commandments literally and fully and belive anybody that disobeys in any way will burn in hell.

 

So do I...to an extent. Though I have more secular friends than religious. I even have friends that are homosexual.

 

There is a difference between believing in something and pushing it down someones throat.

 

A true Christian will leave the door open, he will never push someone through.

[toms]

They hijacked Christianity just like how Osama hijacked Islam. They really have so much in common its laughable.

 

What makes any one interpretation of the bible or quran more correct than another?

 

There is a story. Person A reads it and believes it says X. Person Y reads it and believes it says Y. Since it is only a story with no facts to back it up who is to say that X is a better interpretation than Y?

[Mike Windu]

I think he meant in use of justification of morally depraved, extremist acts.

 

They should not be allowed to do this ****. Every person is entitled to a nice, quiet funeral. The Greeks and Romans understood this.

 

De mortuuis nihil nisi bonum.

[Samuel Dravis]

What makes any one interpretation of the bible or quran more correct than another?

 

There is a story. Person A reads it and believes it says X. Person Y reads it and believes it says Y. Since it is only a story with no facts to back it up who is to say that X is a better interpretation than Y?

One's not hurting others?

[Good Sir Knight]

What makes any one interpretation of the bible or quran more correct than another?

 

There is a story. Person A reads it and believes it says X. Person Y reads it and believes it says Y. Since it is only a story with no facts to back it up who is to say that X is a better interpretation than Y?

 

Toms you know what I mean and I believe Windu cleared up any confusion your moral relativity may have caused.

[Master_Ginn]

The daughter of the founder was on Hannity and Colmes a few nights ago and she believed in what she was saying so strongely, it shocked and angered me. They apperentley believe in the 10 Commandments literally and fully and belive anybody that disobeys in any way will burn in hell. This "church" is sick and angers me to the breaking point to see them out there protesting, I just wanna go there and just plant an IED underneath them and watch the fireworks.

 

 

Whew.

 

 

Okay, not really but someting has to be done to these scum.

http://www.killsometime.com/Video/video.asp?ID=497

Is that the video you're talking about? She never let's these guys get a word in and she just says the same crap over and over. She's completely wrong about everything she says. She claims to read the scripture, but if she actually read the Bible she'd know she's a complete fool.

[Datheus]

Should it be legal? I vomit while I say yes.

 

Would I shed a tear if a handful of Marines systematically beat every member of Westboro Church within an inch of each of their lives? Nope.

[Point Man]

As a Christian, I must agree with the belief of the Westboro Baptist Church that homosexuality is wrong. If I am going to be genuine in my belief in the Bible as God's Word, then I must accept when it says homosexuality is "detestable" (Leviticus 18:28) and "unnatural...indecent...(and a) perversion" (Romans 1:26-27). I present these verses not in the intention to convince anyone of their truth or to attack any individuals, but to show that the Bible does indeed say it is wrong. If I say I believe the Bible, then I must believe these verses.

 

That being said, I strongly disagree with their methods of presenting that belief. They seem to have either forgotten or ignore that Christians are taught to hate sin, but love sinners. After all, Christians are sinners too. We are no better than anyone else; we have just accepted God's gift of forgiveness. I have some very good friends who are gay, and, while I wish they would stop what they are doing (just as I wish my brother would stop drinking), I still love them dearly. These Westboro people are giving genuine Christians a bad name, and I resent that.

 

As a soldier, I am highly offended at their protests at funerals of soldiers. They are attempting to dishonor the sacrifice of men and women who believed freedom is worth fighting for. Put aside your views as to whether our leaders made the right decisions. The military members who died performing their duty deserve to be honored.

 

As much as I dislike their message of hate and their attempts to dishonor my fallen comrades, I went to war to defend their right to express their beliefs. As long as they stay within the law, they can, and must be allowed to, say whatever they wish. The Constitution I have sworn to uphold provides everyone the freedom to express their views in a peaceful manner, but it does not provide everyone the right to live unoffended by others' misguided views.

[toms]

As a Christian, I must agree with the belief of the Westboro Baptist Church that homosexuality is wrong. If I am going to be genuine in my belief in the Bible as God's Word, then I must accept when it says homosexuality is "detestable" (Leviticus 18:28) and "unnatural...indecent...(and a) perversion" (Romans 1:26-27).

 

Who ever said the bible is god's word? As a chirstian you in no way have to beleive that the bible is gods word. infact you know quite well that it isn't god's word as it even helpfully puts the names of the actual authors on the individual books. Vast numbers of chirstians don't believe that the bible is gods word. Where does it state that it is?

[El Sitherino]

Blah blah blah, that's not the topic.

 

Please don't make me nuke this thread.

[rccar328]

How about this:

 

In response to the Westboro Baptist protests, on Memorial Day, President Bush passed a law banning protests within a certain distance from national cemetaries when there was a funeral going on there. Now, as much as I think the Westboro Baptists are religious fanatic wackos who are completely wrong, I think this law is exactly the wrong response. National cemetaries are public property, and this bill essentially restricts freedom of speech on that public property. I hope the bill is brought before the Supreme Court and declared unconstitutional...though I do also wish the Westboro Baptists would just shut up.

[TK-8252]

How about this:

 

In response to the Westboro Baptist protests, on Memorial Day, President Bush passed a law banning protests within a certain distance from national cemetaries when there was a funeral going on there. Now, as much as I think the Westboro Baptists are religious fanatic wackos who are completely wrong, I think this law is exactly the wrong response. National cemetaries are public property, and this bill essentially restricts freedom of speech on that public property. I hope the bill is brought before the Supreme Court and declared unconstitutional...though I do also wish the Westboro Baptists would just shut up.

 

Then how do you suggest protecting people from these ****ers at their funerals?

 

Me, personally, I say just let people beat the **** out of them whenever their dumb asses show up with their ****ty signs. But that's just me I suppose.

[El Sitherino]

Anti-harrassment laws are in place for a reason. People need to present this ****.

[rccar328]

Then how do you suggest protecting people from these ****ers at their funerals?

 

Me, personally, I say just let people beat the **** out of them whenever their dumb asses show up with their ****ty signs. But that's just me I suppose.

There are groups out there that have been working to protect the families from the protestors - one in particular comes to mind: a motorcycle gang that goes to the funerals and shields the families from the protestors.

 

As a knee-jerk reaction, I'd have no problem letting people beat the crap out of these protestors...but think of it this way:

 

What if President Bush had passed a law declaring war protests to be treason? There are people out there that think they are, but people across America would be up in arms about violating freedom of speech, myself included.

 

The problem with restricting freedom of speech in this way is that if you can do it in one instance, you can do it in any instance.

[TK-8252]

What if President Bush had passed a law declaring war protests to be treason? There are people out there that think they are, but people across America would be up in arms about violating freedom of speech, myself included.

 

The problem with restricting freedom of speech in this way is that if you can do it in one instance, you can do it in any instance.

 

When they go to the site of a funeral for the sole purpose of protesting, that's crossing the line. They can do their **** at city hall.

 

And yes, the Patriot Guard Riders are doing a great job, but I don't think that families should have to rely completely on the compassion of private citizens. There are laws against harassment, stalking, etc., and WBC is doing BOTH of those things.

[rccar328]

I agree with everything you're saying...the danger, however, is that this law could set a precedent for restricting free speech in other areas.

 

And that's besides the fact that the law is a violation of the First Amendment. I agree that these people should not be allowed to protest at soldiers' funerals. But using extra-Constitutional means to solve the problem is not the right way to go about it.