My thoughts on MI4..

[Ben31]

Hey i posted this on http://www.worldofmi.com but i wanted to see what peoples views were and whether they agreed or not. Since i only got one reply there, i thought i'd try my luck here. So here goes:

 

Thread Title: Why MI4 should be the last

 

Why Escape From Monkey Island should be the last Monkey Island game. This is obviously a negative post so if your sick of hearing negative things about the game turn around now!! But i am entitled to air my views so here goes:

 

1. Firstly, the name. ESCAPE FROM Monkey Island. What the hell is that!? Yes, i think they're forgetting you've escaped from Monkey Island 3 times before, why can't you do it again? It seems pathetic. No real substance or great story. It comes across as if they were in the office one day and then thought "hey, wait a second! we should really include Monkey Island some where along the lines.." and they decided to throw it in. LeChuck put him on there, why?! Why Monkey Island? Guybrush can obviously get off it as he has before.. why not another island? Bad idea overall in how they included Monkey Island - lacked thought.

 

2. Generally, the storyline sucked! AUSTRAILIAN LAND DEVELOPERS!? Dear god. Lawyers?! The only good thing was the "ultimate" insult business they just encorporated that idea badly. I think the story was not linked to the first 2 at all and seems seperated. The first 2 are linked into one big story but MI4 seems its individual game. It has little effect on the storyline. Your understanding doesn't benefit from playing it. It has its own objectives, idea's whereas i feel the first 2 played to the same idea if you understand. Basically, number 4 had no direction, it didn't further you and you didn't get closer to the BIG story. Dunno if you'll understand what i'm thinking of here. Oh yeh, and also the whole Ossy Mandril idea - you can't understand him because of his accent? That's the best they could come up with?

 

3. I didn't like the characters as much, they were less memorable than past people and i didn't develop an impression on most characters personalities. I think speech sound is part of the problem. Without speech, you yourself choose what the player sounds like, you can't go wrong.

 

4. The islands. It wasn't pirate themed. This obviously was part of the whole "land developer" idea. Which was bad. I don't want to go around into shops or restaurants, im a mighty pirate!! I want to be treasure huntin', grog drinkin' and sword fightin'! I think it has to shove aside the pirate theme to encorporate the storyline. Which is unnaceptable.

 

5. The puzzles. Firstly they were not linked. It seemed there was a lot of individual puzzles opposed to a string of puzzles. For example, things like Monkey Combat Fighting, Diving competition, Ultimate Insult idea (that seems to be on its own lost somewhere - a nice concept but in reality they constructed it wrongly, it should have been the MAIN idea and took the spotlight. Instead it disappeared after a bit. It is unclear to me - which doesn't do the game any favours.) then you've got Pegnose Pete. Why did the guy frame you exactly? Even if there is a reason, it wasn't plainly obvious nor presented clearly. Secondly, there was a heap of puzzles not logical which required guess-work.

 

6. There was no clear objective. For example, on the first you had "The Three Trials" then on the second there was "The 4 Map Peieces". This couldn't have been clearer, nor could the storyline. I think it was all a little vague and murky in the 4th. I know for me it doesn't jump into my head what was happening in the 4th. Like the first, if asked i could instantly say "Guybrush was a new pirate and had to rescue the governer Elaine from a ghost pirate". With the second, "Guybrush is seeking the legendary treasure of Big Whoop and soon realises he needs it to escape LeChuck". In the 4th, "Guybrush has to go to some island to visit the lawers to stop his home from being bulldosed by an austrailian land developer then he goes on a search for the ultimate insult (why??) and gets stranded on MI.." they'd be like, huh? I hope that demonstrated my point.

 

7. The ending. Christ. your fighting a GIANT MONKEY. Ok, that sounds okish, but then its ROBOTIC!? God. No way, no way.. And the way you defeat him is totally illogical - no-one would solve it because it isn't solvable. For it to be solvable i feel it needs to be logical. It was guessible, but for an adventure game, that is unnaceptable.

 

I'm sure i've missed out some. But in all, MI4 lacked what made MI1 and 2 great. Probably due to change of staff. Either they should have employed someone who is worthy of their pay packet or they should have stopped at the 2nd. It was an ending at least. Now they've got to make a 5th because there is NO WAY they can leave it as it is.. it isn't an ending to the greatest game series ever to exist. Unless they can revive the game then a 5th will only sour my memories even further! But i feel it is necissary, if only they could imploy the God that is Ron Gilbert...

 

If they did make a 5th i'd definately buy it though - even in spite of what ive just written. I am the biggest fan you'll ever come across and part of me wants a 5th. I'm just worried it will drop further down. #4 had potential, in idea's such as The Ultimate Insult, Pegnose Pete framing etc but they went about it ENTIRELY the wrong way.

[Gabez]

Yeah, I kind of agree with your points... but I think that those are the games weaknesses, rather than its downfall. It's still a pretty good game despite all of that, especially if you can look through those bad points and see the game's own individual charm.

 

In a way, EMI would have worked better as another Sam & Max game, but personally I liked the very different approach to the series. They made it Monkey Islandish enough for my tastes, but maybe not for everyone... so I guess it just comes down to whether the aforementioned points irk you or not.

 

I'd still give it about 8/10.

[Largo LaGrande]

Hey i posted this on http://www.worldofmi.com but i wanted to see what peoples views were and whether they agreed or not. Since i only got one reply there, i thought i'd try my luck here. So here goes:

Thread Title: Why MI4 should be the last

 

Hi Ben I agree That MI4 was not as good as MI 1 and MI 2 but I do not think it was the worsed MI game in the series or the title that killed the series. My Favourite MI games are MI 2 and MI1 and although MI4 was not as good as MI1 or MI2 I still enjoyed MI4.

 

I think MI3 was the worsed in the series becuse they turned Guybrush in to a tall thin camp and blond and I prefered the guybrush from MI2 also I dident like the style of how MI3 looked.

 

 

 

I think the day Ron Gillbert left was the day the storylines the style of the game became week. I havent got time right now Ill post my more detailed veiws soon.

[Joshi]

Everyones entitled to their opinion. I actually rather enjoyed MI3. If it were a game standing on it's own, not under the banner of MI (or, lets assume, as a hypothetical situation, mi1 and 2 never existsed and Curse was a standalone game) it would be heralded as a great game, truely funny and challenging enough to keep you entertained, but not so much that you become frustrated.

 

It also had an amazing art style to it, slightly Disney, but with a style entirely of it's own.

 

The same can also be said about Mi4, although in my view, not as much, probably due to the graphics, which, whilst pretty, tried to hard to make Guybrush look goofy and just made him look annoying.

 

Now yes, they weren't inkeeping with the original style of the first two games and neither carried the same charm (although in my own opinion, MI3 came close), but they were still pretty decent games in their own right.

[Largo LaGrande]

Before you read my thoughts on MI3-4 remember this is my opinion.

 

I think that MI1 and MI2 were the best in the series the storylines were strong the graphics and music was atmospheric and excellent. And MI2s double twist with it all being a ride and then sprits flying around Chuckey’s head to show that maybe it was not just a ride and he is an evil pirate after all left series with a great story for MI3 to continue off from.

 

Unfortunately the staff that worked on MI3 did not seem to care much about the storyline of MI2 and when they wrote MI3's storyline the story was very weak and did not explain or convincingly continue from MI2s great storyline it was as if the staff had never played MI1 or MI2 or even play a MI game at all.

 

MI3 was not a bad game but it was in no way good enough to be a Monkey Island game. MI2 left a great story to continue from. And I was really excited about MI3 because I wanted to see what happens next and as soon as I got to play MI3 it was disappointing to see they had ruined it.

 

And it was even more disappointing to see they had changed the style of the graphics. I liked the style of Graphics they used for MI1 and MI2 they looked fantastic and sounded so atmospheric. And in MI2 Guybrush was the definitive version of what I wanted him to look like he looked so real and detailed right down to the goatee beard and his trademark Blue Coat with gold buttons. If I was guybrush that’s how I would want to look.

 

For MI3 I was looking forward to having the same style of graphics and instead the style was cartoon looking and guybrush had changed into a thin, camp, blond, wimp. And that was very disappointing to me because in Monkey Island games you are Guybrush and for your hero to be a thin, camp, blond, wimp it was not how I would want to look if I was guybrush.

 

Also I was disappointed because for MI3 Le Chuck was no longer real and detailed looking and he was no longer frightening because in MI3 Le Chuck was just fire in a pirate outfit.

 

It is for these reasons why I think MI3 was the game that ruined the Monkey Island Series.

 

Monkey Island 4 was just a continuing from the Poor storyline of MI3 all though I think MI4 has a better storyline than MI3 and was alot more enjoyable to play than MI3.

[Ben31]

Also I was disappointed because in MI3 Le Chuck had gone from being real and detailed looking and he was no longer frightening because in MI3 Le Chuck was just fire.

 

I'd just like to pick up on this point. I agree. The first one was SOOOOO cool - a ghost pirate. I remember vividly seeing him doing that wierd thing with his head going from Fester to the ghost pirate. I was like "COOL!". Man that rocked. And then on the second he was a rotting corpse He looked amazing.

[Largo LaGrande]

I liked the way le chuck looked in both MI1 and MI2 but I liked the way Lechuck looked in MI2 best.

[Ray Jones]

Unfortunately the staff that worked on MI3 did not seem to care much about the storyline of MI2 and when they wrote MI3's storyline the story was very weak and did not explain or convincingly continue from MI2s great storyline it was as if the staff had never played MI1 or MI2 or even play a MI game at all.

Wrong. They kind of explained what happend after MI2, and the story line was not weak in any way. In fact it was conclusive, logical and consistent with the previous games.

 

And it was even more disappointing to see they had changed the style of the graphics. I liked the style of Graphics they used for MI1 and MI2 they looked fantastic and sounded so atmospheric. And in MI2 Guybrush was the definitive version of what I wanted him to look like he looked so real and detailed right down to the goatee beard and his trademark Blue Coat with gold buttons. If I was guybrush that’s how I would want to look.

The graphics and thus the drawing style are, of course, noticeable different to MI1 and MI2, but what exactly did you expect with like 5 years between the release of the first two games and the third one? There had to be a difference, simply because of the better abilities of the hardware. The way they did change the style of the graphics did not annoy me in any way, quite the contrary in fact, I say.

 

And if there was a "real" Guybrush, then it would be the one from MI1, and that one looks pretty much more similar to the Guybrush from CMI than the one from MI2.

 

Also I was disappointed because for MI3 Le Chuck was no longer real and detailed looking and he was no longer frightening because in MI3 Le Chuck was just fire in a pirate outfit.

I wonder how the characters in CMI, although drawn in a higher resolution and in a larger scale, happen to look less detailed than those in MI1 and MI2?

 

It is for these reasons why I think MI3 was the game that ruined the Monkey Island Series.

I really cannot agree on this one. CMI *is* greatness. It provides a great storyline, plus it comes with the strange and marginable style of humour I expect from a Monkey Island game.

[Gabez]

It's nice to hear a bit of CMI bashing, after so many people had a go at EMI and said that CMI was perfect. It's not. But that doesn't mean that it isn't good - in fact, it's brilliant. Certainly one of the best artisticall looking games of all time.

 

But... the plot isn't great. It's good, but it's not edge of your seat stuff. You rescue Elaine, and that's about it. You can say that the EMI plot was too whacky for your liking, but at least it had plenty of plot twists and stuff. I think CMI, as much as I like it, came out a tiny bit... dull.

[Ben31]

You can say that the EMI plot was too whacky for your liking, but at least it had plenty of plot twists and stuff. I think CMI, as much as I like it, came out a tiny bit... dull.

 

I think EMI's plot was too whacky and yes it did have plenty of plot twists - but it was over the top. Too confusing. By the final fight between LeChuck you sort of forgot why you were actually doing all this.

[counting_pine]

I'd say probably one of the biggest differences between the two games were the quality of the characters that were scattered throughout the game.

 

In the Curse of Monkey Island, almost all the characters you met and talked to were actually interesting, and you were given the impression that a lot of thought went into creating them. For example, a crew of barber pirates who each had a story to tell, an incredibly gullible bartender, a "thespian", a lactose intolerant volcano god, and Murray.

 

In Escape from Monkey Island, a lot of the characters you met were one-dimensional / stereotypical / had a funny accent / were stolen entirely from the Simpsons / all of the above. Apart from that, there wasn't much development, and little charm.

 

I think it also has to be said that EMI tried to include a lot of things that, while they were meant to be funny, felt too cynical to be in a Monkey Island game, such as the lawyers, the politics, the corporate tourist industry, time shares and cushy government jobs.

[Gabez]

Yeah, the characters were better in CMI than in EMI, and maybe EMI did overdo things... a little.

[Samnmax221]

One of the things people didn't like about EMI was that it acted like a spoof, of course I love spoofs so I can't really complain.

[Largo LaGrande]

I stand by what I said about Monkey Island 3 being the game that ruined the Monkey Island Series. I did say that if you are a fan of Monkey Island 3 you will not like what I say about it.

 

If I had to decide which game was the game that ruined the series out of a choice of MI3 and MI4 then I would have to choose MI3 as being the game that ruined the series.

 

Because I liked Monkey Island 4 it was a very good game and I think Monkey Island 4 clawed the Monkey Island series out of a ditch that Monkey Island 3 left the series in.

 

By Ray G Jones

Wrong. They kind of explained what happened after MI2, and the story line was not weak in any way. In fact it was conclusive, logical and consistent with the previous games

When I first completed Monkey Island 2 the ending showed that it was all a ride and it left me with the hair standing on the back of my neck and goose bumps and then the final twist were it shows Chucky with spirits flying around his head to show maybe it was true after all was genius. I could not wait to play Monkey Island 3 to see what happens next.

 

Unfortunately they screwed up a great storyline when they made Monkey Island 3 they did not explain anything that happened in Monkey Island 2 or continue from the great story Monkey Island 2 left the series with.

 

I was so excited after Monkey Island 2 about what was going to happen next and what they came up with for Monkey Island 3 was a weak storyline with absolutely no explanation of what happened in Monkey Island 2 I was very disappointed.

 

In Monkey Island 3 It just shows guybrush is adrift deep in the Caribbean near Monkey Island in an amusement park bumper car with a half-eaten corn dog! He doesn't know how he got here: all he can remember about it is that he was at the 'Carnival of the Damned', but he isn't exactly sure what happened there. Convinced that he will soon die on the water, he is writing down his final thoughts about his previous adventures and bemoaning the loss of his true love when, suddenly, he hears cannon fire. He looks up startled to find that he has drifted right into the middle of a raging ocean battle between the demon pirate LeChuck and Elaine, his lost love!

 

This is a poor explanation and dose not explain or continue from what happened in MI2 it was very disappointing.

 

by Ray G Jones

The graphics and thus the drawing style are, of course, noticeable different to MI1 and MI2, but what exactly did you expect with like 5 years between the release of the first two games

Actually Ray it was 6 years between the release of the first two games and I just did not like MI3's graphics although they were higher resolution they did not look as detailed and atmospheric as MI1 or MI2's graphics. They should have stayed with the style of MI1 and MI2 that was successful instead of changing to a whole new look.

 

Monkey Island 3 is a good game but I was disappointed with how the story started at the beginning. Monkey Island 4 was a very good game and it was a lot better than Monkey Island 3. Monkey Island 4 had everything you would expect from a monkey Island game and I enjoyed it. So out Of MI3 and MI4 Monkey Island 4 is better.

 

My favorite Monkey Island Games are MI1 and MI2.

 

:monkey4:

[Alien426]

WTF are you smoking?

Firstly there is 1 year between MI1 and MI2. Six years to CMI.

 

CMI is cleary superior to EMI. Who needs the stuff after MI2 explained? It may not be very mainstream where usually every boring detail is explained. But I even like that to a certain degree both factions of the MI2 ending are served. Those who think that the amusement park was real get the bumper car, those who think that LeChuck has put a curse on Guybrush (like Elaine said) get the Guybrush-is-not-a-child part.

[Thrik]

I think that Monkey Island 3 is better than the 4th in pretty much every single way, and I cannot fondly look back at the latter no matter how hard I try.

 

I loved the visual style, soundtrack, humour, locations, characters, puzzles, and the backstory. Granted, the storyline was a little basic, and it was blatantly stretched to allow the series to continue in the Caribbean following MI2, but who cares? It managed to slot into the Monkey Island universe without really forming any significant plot holes, and it remained in the spirit of its predecessors while at the same time retaining the piratey atmosphere. Not to mention, the whole game was an absolute joy to become immersed in.

 

Go Monkey Island 3!

[Ben31]

I haven't played Monkey Island 3, so it's hard for me to comment. One thing i do no, i would expect and want some sort of explanation or link from the second to third so i understood what happened. Especially with such an unclear ending as LR had. Thats only what i would expect - i can only truly comment once i have played it i reckon.

[Mr Cheese]

Dear Largo Lagrande, the start of MI3 explains that he escaped big whoop and is now adult. That's all you need to know out at that point. Near the end of the game, it then goes on to explain that it WAS a curse, as was guessed by Elaine at the end of MI2. LeChuck explains that he build the amusement park seen at the end of MI2, which he named after the treasure. This was situated on monkey island, and they used the underground tunnels to get there. But what about Guybrush being a kid? LeChuck had used the power of Big Whoop to turn Guybrush into a kid. His parents being there was part of that curse. This explains the end of MI2 very well.

[Mr Cheese]

Now back on task. I aggree with most of the points made by Ben31. Most of the game had nothing to do with the pirate world or the time this was set. I think it was okay in the three older games to have references to the future, but in EMI, almost every character seemed like they were randomly pulled off the streets of new york and put into a pirate game. The only characters that were piratey were the original ones from the other games.

Story: Completely random. Couldn't have had less to do with the older ones.

Graphics: Boring and simple. There was absolutely no atmosphere like the others (yes i think MI3 did have atmosphere, moreso than MI1 at least)

Ending: Actually, there was one thing I did like, and that was Herman being Grandpa Marley. It does work, and think I have made another post about why it does. But other than that it was horrible. My opinion on the monkey robot can be seen in many of my older posts.

Music: Better than MI1, but not by much. It did nothing for the atmosphere of the game. It was also very boring. (least favourites: Monkey Kombat and Lucre Town)

Jokes: Always either forced, corny, or cynical. But almost never funny.

Lastly, the point you made was "without voices you can never go wrong". I couldn't disaggree more. With most people, if they played a new game with no voices, they'd say "there's something wrong with the sound". I think voices add a great deal to the character, and makes them more accurate to what the creator wanted them to be.

[Largo LaGrande]

WTF are you smoking?

Firstly there is 1 year between MI1 and MI2. Six years to CMI.

 

CMI is cleary superior to EMI. Who needs the stuff after MI2 explained? It may not be very mainstream where usually every boring detail is explained. But I even like that to a certain degree both factions of the MI2 ending are served. Those who think that the amusement park was real get the bumper car, those who think that LeChuck has put a curse on Guybrush (like Elaine said) get the Guybrush-is-not-a-child part.

 

 

Alien did you not read you idiot thats what I ment a 6 year betwen MI1 Mi2 and the release of CMI read before you shoot your big mouth will you.

 

I do like MI3 but I think out of MI3 and MI4 I like MI4 best because it is a decent MI game worthy of being a MI game. MI1 and MI2 are the best in the Monkey Island series MI4 is the 3rd best game in the series and MI3 is the 4th best game in the series MI3.

 

I did say if MI3 is your favourite game in the series you wont like what I ssaid about MI3 if you dont want hear what I think of MI3 then dont read.

 

I dont like saying negative things about a MI game but I have to be honest and say what I think about MI3 because MI3 was the sequel to my favorite game MI2. I was looking foward to MI3 and MI3 was very dissapointing.

[Largo LaGrande]

Dear Largo Lagrande, the start of MI3 explains that he escaped big whoop and is now adult. That's all you need to know out at that point. Near the end of the game, it then goes on to explain that it WAS a curse, as was guessed by Elaine at the end of MI2. LeChuck explains that he build the amusement park seen at the end of MI2, which he named after the treasure. This was situated on monkey island, and they used the underground tunnels to get there. But what about Guybrush being a kid? LeChuck had used the power of Big Whoop to turn Guybrush into a kid. His parents being there was part of that curse. This explains the end of MI2 very well.

 

I have played MI3 and If you read my posts above talking about MI3 I did explain all about the begiing of MI3's story. MI2 was my favourite game and the ending was amazing and I could not wait for MI3 Unfortunately the begining to MI3 and the story was a big dissapointment as well as the look of the game.

 

Out Of MI3 and MI4 I liked MI4 best because it was more like a MI game and MI4 is a true Monkey Island Game it was very atmospheric and the voices for the characters was great and I really enjoyed it.

 

I enjoyed meeting Meat Hooks the artist with hooks for hands and I liked the insult sword fight with Ozzy Mandrel.

[Alien426]

5 years between the release of the first two games and the third one

Actually Ray it was 6 years between the release of the first two games

You should probably learn to be more precise in what you say. Just so you don't come across like a total dimwit, dongma?

I did say if MI3 is your favourite game in the series you wont like what I ssaid about MI3 if you dont want hear what I think of MI3 then dont read.

So that means when you say something and put a disclaimer in there that some may not like it, those people are automatically not qualified to comment on it? Not even are allowed to read it? You write bullshít and I have every right to expose it.

 

I could be perfectly happy with any game that played and looked as good as CMI without saying anything about the previous games. I'd be happy even if there were no regular characters like Elaine, Herman, the 3 pirates, LeChuck at all.

[Ben31]

You should probably learn to be more precise in what you say. Just so you don't come across like a total dimwit, dongma?

 

Um, even if what Largo LaGrande said wasn't the clearest of statements, i was still easily able to distinguish what he really meant. I'm sure i'm not alone..

 

I'd be happy even if there were no regular characters like Elaine, Herman, the 3 pirates, LeChuck at all.

 

Why not take out Guybrush Threepwood while your at it?

 

Seriously - I don't think you qualify to call yourself a Monkey Island fan following that statement. An adventure game fan maybe, even a LucasArts fan yes - but not a Monkey Island fan. There are certain things that makes the game what it is and to take any of those elements out will rapidly lower it's appeal with Monkey Island fans.

[Ben31]

Lastly, the point you made was "without voices you can never go wrong". I couldn't disaggree more. With most people, if they played a new game with no voices, they'd say "there's something wrong with the sound". I think voices add a great deal to the character, and makes them more accurate to what the creator wanted them to be.

 

 

I understand your point. The creator has a clear impression of the character's he wishes to create and voices help him to give individuality and personality to each. It's just... with certain characters, they sound utter carbage. That's my opinion. And that puts me off - also when characters repeat chat as you repeat an action it gets very annoying like Herman where you say "Herman" and he goes "Where?!". And there are many other examples. My main point though was that, if you create a picture or sound in your head of what someone's like, it can't be wrong. I personally think it isn't what the creator wants that is important but what the player wants, and without voices, this is achievable. Obviously voices add to atmosphere but the first 2 games proved that it isn't necissary and sound/graphics achieve this on their own. I think it is difficult not to add speech sound with newer games though as they are expected to have speech sound.

[Alien426]

Why not take out Guybrush Threepwood while your at it?

Seriously - I don't think you qualify to call yourself a Monkey Island fan following that statement. An adventure game fan maybe, even a LucasArts fan yes - but not a Monkey Island fan. There are certain things that makes the game what it is and to take any of those elements out will rapidly lower it's appeal with Monkey Island fans.

Why not? I'm serious. A Monkey Island game is in my opinion not connected to the characters per se, but to the quality of the characters. If you get the piratey theme, the Caribbean setting, that certain humor... that's Monkey Island!

 

I can't call myself a fan? I do call myself an enlightened MI fan. One who looks beyond the outside and recognizes the quality of the first 3 parts, just like a lot of other people here (counting_pine for example).

 

Maybe my getting rid of Guybrush goes a little far, but I think CMI showed pretty well, that you can get away from previously introduced characters and make it a good MI game. Elaine had little else to do than stand as a golden statue for most of the game, LeChuck came in pretty late. But the new characters in CMI just worked. They were likable and had depth and did fit in the MI setting. Like Mr Cheese said.

 

Just think about them: Haggis, Edward, Bill, Murray (a very popular character), Kenny (great music!), Madame Xima, Capt. Rottingham...

 

In EMI the first new character that comes to mind is that obnoxious Pegnose Pete, then Ozzie. Beyond that? Not much at all.