Rap Vs. Rock talent

[Rabish Bini]

A few days ago, me and one of my mates go into a conversation about what kind of music requires more talent, rap or rock. He said rap because of all the rhymes and rapping fast, I said rock because you hav to play instruments in time and sometimes you have to sing aswell.

My question to you is, what requires more talent, rap or rock?

[RC-1162]

rap, definitely, you need to have lots of lung power to rap as fast as Eminem or 50 Cent.

[Rabish Bini]

True, but you need killer co-ordination to play guitar and sing, or even play drums as fast as, say, Joey from slipknot. I play drums, so I should know.

[Samuel Dravis]

I think rock does, but that's just me. Rap is...egh. I guess if you're talented at talking, okay.

[Sabretooth]

Rock is normally performed by a collective band, comprising of members with various skills. A guy good at drums, for example, might have no talent in the bass guitar and vice versa.

 

Rap, on the other hand is fast, and requires lung power. A screw-up in rock can be mildly excused, but a screw-up in rap is unforgivable.

 

But I'm sort of inclined towards Rock. Rock needs more talent, IMO.

[RC-1162]

True, but you need killer co-ordination to play guitar and sing, or even play drums as fast as, say, Joey from slipknot. I play drums, so I should know.

i play the drums too, and i agree with you, but as Sabre said, a wrong note in guitars or a wrong beat in a rock band can be covered up. Make a slip in the lyrics of rap, however, and youre screwed.

[Mav]

To me it is blatantly obvious that good rock takes more talent than good rock. Don't you ever dare try to tell me that 50 Cent, Eminem or any other rapper is more or even remotely equal in talent to Jimi Hendrix or Keith Richards. Don't try to tell me that the "G-Unit" has more talent than the The Who, The Beatles, or The Stones. You can try, but I'll never believe it.

[FiEND_138]

 

Steve Vai greater than all rap.

[Daft Adidas]

if we talk about an actual one person singing rap or rock then obviously rap is harder and u need alot of talent. U get ALOT of teenage rock bands at school but that many rappers and that's because rapping aint as easy as rock.

[Astrotoy7]

lolz.... these threads are neboulous, and one must be careful not flambeaux.

 

Some people enjoy rap, some enjoy rock, some bands are crossovers - like Rage Against The Machine for example - loved by rap and rock fans around the world. (now defunct of course)

 

I think raps origins were more socially signficant - to quote the awesome KRS-One(Kris Parker):

 

"So much more than rhymes,

So much more than beats,

Rap is all about victory over the streets"

 

-from the track "The 9 Elements of Hip Hop", Album: Kristyles

 

What is sad to see is what rap/hip hop has degenerated into - faux gangsters, gold, guns, sneakers - all that crap. An Eminem, sheez - has anyone actually listened to the beats in his tracks......some of 'em are like elevator music - still - he seems to have found and expolited a niche in the market so more power to him. Then there's the peurile lyrics : whine whine whine about his mother and his wife blah blah blah...... Go get some counselling FFS man!!

 

As for rock. Sure there are some truly talented people out there - Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Tom Morello, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, BB King etc etc - but there's a crapload of people with not much talent at all who happen to be holding guitars and are standing on a stage

 

So Im not choosing either - though I have listened to alot of hip hop as a youngster. The closest i get to "rock" is Black Sabbath, Led Zep(occasionally) - other than that its METAL 'TILL YOU DIE

 

what I cannot understand though is how anyone can like "Country & Western" - talking about 'workin on the land' and drivin a plow - wearin cowboys hats to concerts in the middle of cities - what's with that ???

 

mtfbwya

[RC-1162]

To me it is blatantly obvious that good rock takes more talent than good rock. Don't you ever dare try to tell me that 50 Cent, Eminem or any other rapper is more or even remotely equal in talent to Jimi Hendrix or Keith Richards. Don't try to tell me that the "G-Unit" has more talent than the The Who, The Beatles, or The Stones. You can try, but I'll never believe it.

okay, i won't tell you the truth.

[Mace MacLeod]

Oh puh-lease.

 

The amount of time and work it takes to get even halfway competent at playing an instrument or singing far outstrips what it takes to shout rhymes to a beat. Most rappers aren't even capable of singing.

[Jeremia Skywalk]

Rap might need more skill, but i have never seen any rapper with enough skill, but there are tons of awesome rock bands and singers. I despise the rapper culture though. Just hate it. Don't ask why, i don't know.

[Ztalker]

Ehm...since when does Rap involve any talent?

 

'Let's get ourself a standard Ghetto-man, stick him full of tatoo's, make up some stories of him getting shot, and we got ourself a 50 Cent!"

Imo, Rap is as fake as it can get. It's all about the 'status' instead of real skills.

 

Rock on the other hand does require some skills. Like peope said before, the mastery of instruments, the collective sound of a band, etc make it far more difficult to 'play' a song then simply 'say' it like rap does.

 

I think rock does, but that's just me. Rap is...egh. I guess if you're talented at talking, okay.

Q.F.E. Rap is nothing more then talking quickly and insulting people.

 

*awaits bashing of 50 Cent fanboys...I mean...'homies' *

[Astrotoy7]

Ehm...since when does Rap involve any talent?

 

"a standard Ghetto-man,"

 

I mean...'homies' *

 

great. Dont forget to put your white hood on before next post.

 

If all you are judging rap on is 50c and p.diddy etc than you really should excuse yourself from the discussion for being severly misinformed.

 

Read my post above, Im not a fan of the commercialised mess that alot of the scene has become.

 

But to make judgement statements like you have(even in sarcasm) is insulting to the people who enjoy the music and the people who helped engender the scene in the first place...

 

I'm listen to many genres(except country!!) to an extent, but the hip hop of the 80s-90s has a special meaning for me. I am from a refugee and minority background - listening to the voice of the disenfranchised, and the inspirational and positive lyrics of KRS-One, Public Enemy, ICE-T etc gave me a lot of confidence that someone of my background, and from a non affluent family/community could achieve positive things.

 

Hip Hop is a very diverse genre - comprised of diverse individuals.

 

The Beastie Boys are one of the greatest rap acts in the world... where are their tattoos, guns etc. Theyre Buddhists and Pro Tibetan activists FFS!!

 

Two of the are from middle class jewish families -Adam Horovitz('Ad Rock') and Adam Yauch('MCA') - Them and Mike Diamond are all childhood friends who started a punk band in their teens. Being New Yorkers, they got caught up in the hip-hop movement. Over the years they have also released some great tracks and albums featuring them on traditional instruments...

 

KRS One - Kris Parker is indeed a 'ghetto man' from the South Bronx, NY. One of the Pioneers of modern hip hop, he founded the 'Stop The Violence' movement in the late 80s and united artists from across the US in advocating against gun and drug related crime... 'Fake' huh ?? Recently, he has founded an organisation, The Temple of Hip Hop promoting activism and brotherhood in the community, around hip hop and street culture.

 

Zach De La Rocha - Former lead vocalist of Rage Against The Machine. His style was undoubtedly rap - yet he was the frontman of one of the best rock groups of the 90s. Their guitarist, Tom Morello is widely acclaimed as one of the most original and talented guitarists of the last decade. How odd, once again, no guns, tattoos or gold. A visit to ratm.com will give you an idea of the type of activities they were involved with. (The group is now defunct - with the remnants of the band hooking up with Chris Cornell, formerly of Soundgarden, to for the band Audioslave)

 

There are many other names who make continuing posititive contributions to the genre and society - It is unfortunate that all the general public hear and see about the genre is stuff like 50c and eminem. If that's all you have to go on, then you are sure to get a negative impression.

 

As for the musical and technical aspects of the genre. Rap("Rhythm and Poetry") is all about meter, writing lyrics that are rythmic, can convey a message to match a beat or overlayed/sampled sound. A few hip groups also use live instruments- but it is generally not the rule.

 

Rap started on street corners, these were people who could'nt afford instruments. A perfect example of this is beat-boxing, in the absence of instruments or synthesizers, some streetside performers became talented at mimicking drum sounds with their mouth. This has since been so over exposed in the media that it is often used to mock the genre - without realising that its origins were the poverty of those original performers.

 

The stuff you hear on the radio is simply crap - and is moreso talking than rap .Get yourself a KRS One, ICE T or Public Enemy Album, and hear the difference. You'll find a rich texture of sounds from diverse sources and socially relevant lyrics delivered in true poetic meter.

 

In the earlier days, rap was the offspring of the disco movement - which itself had become over commercialised. Earlier hip hop also drew heavily on

influences like soul(particularly James Brown), the funk movement(George Clinton, Parliament, Afrika Bambaata), and the 'scat-jazz' syle of singing(Cab Calloway for example)

 

You may or may not have read this post entirely or carefully. I just hope you can realise there is always a complexity and detail to everything, you just havent bothered to look, or care, 'homie'

 

mtfbwya

[Daft Adidas]

i like rap and rock there both brilliant but i think that rappers need alot of talent to be succesful in rap.

[Ztalker]

First of all, i am not insulting anyone, except for 50 Cent.

I should have mentioned that, but I didn't, which is my bad.

 

I explicitely say 50 Cent sucks, because he is, imo, the 'icon' of modern rap. An icon I dislike for his behaviour against women, children, money, and criminal activities. Although he is acting it, the influcence of his clips en lyrics on children are bad, imo.

 

I have no problem with old rap, like P.Diddy etc, or Eminem, of modern day rappers/groups like the Black Eyed Peas etc. I just dislike the way of life certain rappers stand for.

 

Same can be said about Rock icons though. Metallica (Alcohollica?) for example.

 

great. Dont forget to put your white hood on before next post.

Yes...let's call the Ztalker a clan member. It'll solve everything. Please give me the chance to properly explain my post.

 

Read my post above, Im not a fan of the commercialised mess that alot of the scene has become.

Same here. I should have mentioned I'm not an overall 'rap-hater' though, I just dislike what it has become.

And yes, I shouldn't have flamed a particular artist, since the topic is about 'rap' as a whole subject.

 

You may or may not have read this post entirely or carefully. I just hope you can realise there is always a complexity and detail to everything, you just havent bothered to look, or care, 'homie'

You're absolutely right. Again, my rlittle rant wasn't aimed for rap as a whole thing, just at 50 Cent. Please, don't feel personally attacked.

 

I know people like P.Diddy have serious talent, judging by their lyrics. But I can't say the same about a song called 'Candy Shop' for example.

 

To conclude:

My post was aimed AT a particular artist, not at the rap-culture at all.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my post, I should have known better then to flame someone.

(Wouldn't be the first time, to my shame...)

 

@Astrotoy7: Sorry, I hope this clears stuff up a bit. I have no grudge whatsoever against rap.

[Kas'!m]

Rap is poetry. The kind you see on TV is ****. Real rap though is poetry. You know to listen to the first rap songs to catch my meaning. Rock- I don't know what the hell that is about since I'm black. Rap(the real kind) requires more talent because you have to put a certain amount of syllables in a line, you need similes ans metaphors, and internal rhymes, and cadence, and a bunch of other stuff

[The Doctor]

Depends on what you mean by Rock. Classic (ie 1950's) or Modern? Rock'n'Roll or Head-banging?

 

From my experience, rap requires no talent at all. All you have to be able to do is say the words ****, ****, bitch, hoe, slut, and the like. Rap is vile filth. Flame me if you want, but rap is the stupidest excuse for music I've ever heard.

 

So I say Rock, even if it is the crappiest of Rock out there. And there's some pretty bad Rock out there.

[Henz]

I love that people even bother to use 50 cent as any kind of arguing point in this conversation. He is an average rapper at VERY best. And the statement: "i think that rappers need alot of talent to be succesful in rap." I find very untrue. Successful rappers are most often quite ****, but backed by some catchy beat. It's always luck or a huge producer behind them that does the work. Mainstream rap is very fickle too.

 

Real lyrical rap is hard to do. And a rapper who maintains a steady fanbase is a pretty talented one. (G Unit used to be so cool... it aint worth a turd now) I still think good rock is altogether harder to do though. Rap is hard to ever really make complex musically.

 

I don't think the fact that rock is more commonly created by amateur artists is a particularly good arguing point. Rap is hard to get into because it is so heavily judged on street credit and your life. Rock doesn't have that and is much more easily accessible.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

A lot of rap (especially nowadays) is dumb, but a lot of it takes skill. I dare anyone to listen to a song by Twista and tell me that doesn't take skill. The dude can do like 14 syllables per second.

 

I don't like either type, but I like some songs from each type.

[Mace MacLeod]

Rap(the real kind) requires more talent because you have to put a certain amount of syllables in a line' date=' you need similes ans metaphors, and internal rhymes, and cadence, and a bunch of other stuff[/quote']Yes, and lyrics for rock songs also have those things as well, and they have to actually be sung most of the time, not just shouted or spoken. I was in high school when rap first really broke out, and all my friends at the time were suddenly listening to the Geto Boys, Too Short, NWA, 2 Live Crew, and all that stuff. I do respect the original hardcore rap and its origins and message, but as a musical form, it rates just above karaoke.

 

Now, Rage Against the Machine is in a separate category than rap. Sure, Zach "rapped" more than he sang, but Rage was basically a metal band with a social conscience. They're in my top 5 favourite ever bands, and one of those reasons is Tom Morello's playing. But Rage wasn't strictly rap for the simple reason they played their own instruments, and didn't need to rely on samples. That's what I really hate about rap and hip-hop generally; all the sampling and ripping off more talented musicians than themselves. If they're so creative and talented, why don't they write their own damn music?

[Prime]

great. Dont forget to put your white hood on before next post.

 

If all you are judging rap on is 50c and p.diddy etc than you really should excuse yourself from the discussion for being severly misinformed.

 

Read my post above, Im not a fan of the commercialised mess that alot of the scene has become.

 

But to make judgement statements like you have(even in sarcasm) is insulting to the people who enjoy the music and the people who helped engender the scene in the first place...

 

I'm listen to many genres(except country!!) to an extent, but the hip hop of the 80s-90s has a special meaning for me. I am from a refugee and minority background - listening to the voice of the disenfranchised, and the inspirational and positive lyrics of KRS-One, Public Enemy, ICE-T etc gave me a lot of confidence that someone of my background, and from a non affluent family/community could achieve positive things.

 

Hip Hop is a very diverse genre - comprised of diverse individuals.

 

The Beastie Boys are one of the greatest rap acts in the world... where are their tattoos, guns etc. Theyre Buddhists and Pro Tibetan activists FFS!!

 

Two of the are from middle class jewish families -Adam Horovitz('Ad Rock') and Adam Yauch('MCA') - Them and Mike Diamond are all childhood friends who started a punk band in their teens. Being New Yorkers, they got caught up in the hip-hop movement. Over the years they have also released some great tracks and albums featuring them on traditional instruments...

 

KRS One - Kris Parker is indeed a 'ghetto man' from the South Bronx, NY. One of the Pioneers of modern hip hop, he founded the 'Stop The Violence' movement in the late 80s and united artists from across the US in advocating against gun and drug related crime... 'Fake' huh ?? Recently, he has founded an organisation, The Temple of Hip Hop promoting activism and brotherhood in the community, around hip hop and street culture.

 

Zach De La Rocha - Former lead vocalist of Rage Against The Machine. His style was undoubtedly rap - yet he was the frontman of one of the best rock groups of the 90s. Their guitarist, Tom Morello is widely acclaimed as one of the most original and talented guitarists of the last decade. How odd, once again, no guns, tattoos or gold. A visit to ratm.com will give you an idea of the type of activities they were involved with. (The group is now defunct - with the remnants of the band hooking up with Chris Cornell, formerly of Soundgarden, to for the band Audioslave)

 

There are many other names who make continuing posititive contributions to the genre and society - It is unfortunate that all the general public hear and see about the genre is stuff like 50c and eminem. If that's all you have to go on, then you are sure to get a negative impression.

 

As for the musical and technical aspects of the genre. Rap("Rhythm and Poetry") is all about meter, writing lyrics that are rythmic, can convey a message to match a beat or overlayed/sampled sound. A few hip groups also use live instruments- but it is generally not the rule.

 

Rap started on street corners, these were people who could'nt afford instruments. A perfect example of this is beat-boxing, in the absence of instruments or synthesizers, some streetside performers became talented at mimicking drum sounds with their mouth. This has since been so over exposed in the media that it is often used to mock the genre - without realising that its origins were the poverty of those original performers.

 

The stuff you hear on the radio is simply crap - and is moreso talking than rap .Get yourself a KRS One, ICE T or Public Enemy Album, and hear the difference. You'll find a rich texture of sounds from diverse sources and socially relevant lyrics delivered in true poetic meter.

 

In the earlier days, rap was the offspring of the disco movement - which itself had become over commercialised. Earlier hip hop also drew heavily on

influences like soul(particularly James Brown), the funk movement(George Clinton, Parliament, Afrika Bambaata), and the 'scat-jazz' syle of singing(Cab Calloway for example)

 

You may or may not have read this post entirely or carefully. I just hope you can realise there is always a complexity and detail to everything, you just havent bothered to look, or care, 'homie'

 

mtfbwya

Thank you for this post.

[Balderdash]

I know people like P.Diddy have serious talent, judging by their lyrics. But I can't say the same about a song called 'Candy Shop' for example.

Just to set you straight, Diddy is a horrible emcee. Although I would not say that I respect guys like him, I can acknowledge his worth as a businessman and an entertainer. But he's not an emcee, and he knows this himself. Wack generic delivery, and, for the most part he doesn't even write his own damn lyrics. Pharoahe Monch ghostwrote half of his most recent album, FFS (great choice though .. Monch is a monster on his solo material, and his old stuff with Organized Konfusion was way ahead of it's time, but that's besides the point).

 

If you think P. Diddy has 'serious talent', then you may well find yourself becoming a hip-hop fan at some point, if you ever bother to switch the TV off and think for yourself. There are many, many emcees, especially in the underground, who make Diddy's best attempts at writing lyrics look like an infant playing with fridge magnets.

 

Rap is vile filth.

So is metal, if we're going to generalize; read up on Ozzy Osbourne and tell me, what do you think his value to the world as a role model is?

 

Osbourne later said that, at the height of his drug addiction, he shot 17 cats:

 

"I was taking drugs so much I was a ****er, The final straw came when I shot all our cats. We had about 17, and I went crazy and shot them all. My wife found me under the piano in a white suit, a shotgun in one hand and a knife in the other"

 

And this guy is now one of the most powerful celebrities in the world. I'm wondering, do you have any children?

 

Honestly, LMAO @ some of you guys' childish opinions about hip-hop, in general. It's sad to see generally intelligent kids so ignorant about a culture that's still only three and a half decades old, and has already touched the lives of more African American people in it's history than anything that's come along since the Emancipation Proclamation. Honestly, I blame it on the media/radio programming, greed ... and apathy, more than anything else.

 

I love my Hendrix, and Pink Floyd, and Nirvana, and all the other classics just like everyone else, but I've been a hip-hop head my entire life and it's had a profound effect on the way I see the world. If middle America doesn't understand that, then it's all the same to me, because they are the ones missing out.

 

Bottom line: commercial rap music is not the same as Hip-hop culture. Hip-hop purists and true school b-boys do not endorse mysogyny or glorifying ultra-violence. You have been misled.

 

The modern underground movement, which IMHO exhibits a good deal more talent than anything in the mainstream (aside from some of the veterans) has made great strides in recent years, particularly due to the advent of the internet. There's also great hip-hop music being created in countries outside of North America.

[Jae Onasi]

As long as the music doesn't scream at me, use 8 zillion expletives, or promotes the 'virtues' of killing, using drugs, or using women as their sex-toys, I'm good with pretty much anything. I grew up with rock so my tastes tend in that direction, but I like some of Eminem's stuff even if it might be a little 'last week's news' and even though the lyrics make his songs too far into the adult range for me to play with the kids around. I don't listen to many of the rap/hip-hop/hard rock stations because of the topics that get discussed are too adult for my kids also (and I really don't like songs that scream at me), so I don't get that much exposure to those types. I haven't heard enough _good_ hip-hop or rap to get to the point where I'd want to listen to it all the time, but then again I have eclectic music tastes and need a bit of variety anyway.