Rap Vs. Rock talent

[Negative Sun]

A lot of vocals in today's music (both rock and rap) have all the complexity of a jar of baby food. There's such an emphasis on the instruments or the rhyming and the 'package of the performance' that actually singing _well_ has lost some of its signficance. I love it when a group of singers get together and create something that vocally has a lot of harmony and interesting parts along with the music. It takes a lot of time to get that all coordinated and done _well_. One of the most difficult pieces of music I've ever been involved with was a 24-part motet (Renaissance choral piece). There were about 75 of us singing that piece, and it took days of practice to get that one together, and even then it was rough at the dress rehearsal. It came together at the performance, however. Each of the soprano parts were the same but offset by 2 measures. When we sang each part by ourselves, it was relatively easy and had a pretty sound. When we put all 6 soprano parts together, it took on a different sound because of the harmonies. When we added in the rest of the altos/tenors/basses, the entire piece took on a life of its own, and it was stunning. I actually got goosebumps while singing it, and usually I'm concentrating on the music and don't get carried away like that. I was so surprised at how great it sounded like done well all together that I nearly lost my place in the music. Granted, rock/rap isn't the same as choral music by any stretch of the imagination, but I think they could apply more of the concepts.

 

I don't think a lot of singers/musicians take enough advantage of the vocal as well as instrument harmonies to produce pieces that are outstanding. Sure, they produce good stuff, but I like it when they take the extra steps to coordinate everything and create a truly great sound. That's not to say it doesn't happen, because it does, but not as often as it could. Unfortunately, most groups aren't together long enough to be able to work with each other to achieve that kind of truly complex music--the industry's way too quick to move onto the next hot young group.

Couldn't have said it better myself...

 

You know I was watching the X Factor the other day, and I saw one of the best vocal performances ever, this guy (Ben) did an a capella version of Queen's "Somebody To Love", no instruments, only a backup choir and his own voice, truly amazing, because if his voice wasn't up to it, he would have been sooo humiliated, but he pulled it off with ease, which in my opinion is a true vocal performance, and it takes a lot of guts to pull that off!

[Balderdash]

I'm not saying that good rap requires no talent, just a lot less than becoming even halfway competent as a musician.

I'm sorry, but I don't accept that; to make such a comment is asinine and borderline insulting. Calling someone 'halfway competent' is the same as calling them incompetent. You're either competent at something or you're not. Are you honestly telling me that a bad musician is more talented than a gifted poet/lyricist? Honestly?

 

And remember, we're talking about writing lyrics and music here, not just performing it. The whole package.

[Rabish Bini]

I reckon that anyone here can come up with a rap son in less than 12 hours. That's how easy it is in my opinion. I'vetried writing a rap song, and it's just too easy. The only hard part is remembering it.

Now, who here can write and perform a rock song in less than 12 hours. No-one probably, it takes time to master instruments. I play drums, and I have to say, i've been doing it for years and I still find it hard. I tried rap, and found it too easy. And most rap songs are lame. 50 cent comes up with the worst songs, what the hell is with that window shopper song? Lame. Candy shop? Lame. In da club? Lame.(Although it's spinoff in da pub rocks)

Eminem is the ONLY rapper who I like.(Along with the Beastie Boys. Thet're alright)

If 50 cent ever learns to play a guitar good, or even write good songs, I will puill down my pants and run all around the globe. (Not literally)

 

Long story short, Weird Al>Rock>Rap.

 

@Prime - Who are they?

[Mace MacLeod]

I'm sorry, but I don't accept that; to make such a comment is asinine and borderline insulting. Calling someone 'halfway competent' is the same as calling them incompetent. You're either competent at something or you're not. Are you honestly telling me that a bad musician is more talented than a gifted poet/lyricist? Honestly?

 

And remember, we're talking about writing lyrics and music here, not just performing it. The whole package.

No, I was talking about performing. By halfway competent, I mean being able to play decently enough to not get laughed off a stage. And I've been onstage dozens of times. I was playing in metal bands, doing nightclub gigs and getting my knob polished by waitresses in the backroom when a lot people posting on this website were still finger painting in elementary school. I know how hard it is and how long it takes to pull off a decent show. I know how much work it is to achieve proficiency as a musician. Just to get up and rap is easy by comparison, and only someone who's never picked up a guitar before in their lives would think otherwise.

 

And hey, I give credit to really original rappers who can write songs and create things artistically. Don't think that I hate rap or rappers generally; I actually do like some of it. And certainly, creating intricate lyrics and rhymes takes work and talent. I never meant to imply that the entire rap genre was completely bereft of talent or creativity. Rap and rock have both suffered a lot in the last 10 years or so creatively; maybe I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of rock bands that have come out recently that I like and consider really talented. But at least they play. And that's more than rappers manage.

it takes years to master the guitar like Jimi Hendrix or Van Halen or better. or even drums.

Mastering the guitar like Hendrix or Eddie Van Halen? Try decades. Those guys are one in a hundred million. They invented the techniques that are taken for granted by modern players.

A closer comparison would be to say take a rap song and learn how to rhyme it and take a Metalica song and learn how to sing it. In both cases you are only learning the vocal side. You might not like their music, but I would argue that (pre-Bobby Brown) Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey have more talent vocally than the majority of rappers and rockers.

Sure. Learn how to sing. A little harder than shouting to a beat. And I absolutely grant that Whitney or Mariah have more vocal ability than 99% of rock vocalists. They're not rappers, however.

 

And I never said anything against DJs. Yeah, they use a turntable as an instrument in and of itself. That takes talent. I respect that. I have nothing against them. Yes, I know the Beastie Boys, thank you. I must point out again though, that if you think DJing or rapping requires the same skill as playing in a decent rock band, you've probably never actually done any of the three.

 

@Jae: Rock and Rap of course are far below the musical level of most classical, neoclassical or jazz music. I've known jazz snobs that stick their noses in the air every time a 4/4 beat rears its head.

[milo]

You have a point astrotoy, but you have to admit, most rappers aren't that good...

Right, and all those emo kids who pick up a guitar and learn a few chords are awesome, huh. Every popular genre has ****ty artists.

Okay, here's a little challenge for anyone who thinks rap takes more talent than rock.

 

First, get a few rap CDs. The good stuff, whatever you think that might be. Sit in your bedroom, and rap along with the CD. Just imitate whatever the rapper does the way he/she does it. See how long it takes you to replicate their efforts.

 

Then go get a few rock or metal CDs. Doesn't have to be super-hard to technical stuff like Steve Vai or early Van Halen or Megadeth, hell, grab AC/DC or ZZ Top or something basic. Once you've done that, pick up a guitar or bass or a pair of drumsticks, and see how long it takes you to do exactly what they're doing.

 

See which takes longer.

What about rappers who free-style? Spitting out lyrics that rhyme and actually make sense just off the top of your head takes some skill. I'm not disagreeing with you, I know it takes a hell of a lot more talent to shred like Eddie Van Halen than to say "bust a cap in yo' ass", but rap isn't as simple as making up stuff in the bathroom mirror. There's more to it than that.

[stingerhs]

*reads the first 20 or so posts and comes up with his own opinion*

 

bah, let me just post my own thoughts on the matter.

 

first, it takes talent to do either style. if rap took little or no talent, then there has to be some other explanation for me not being able to do it, and there also has to be some oddball excuse for why someone on these forums isn't some great hip hop artist. of course, the same can be said for rock music.

 

having been around both genres, i know what the talent requirements are. hip hop requires a good feel for rhythmn and rhymes with a high degree of improvisation, especially in freestyle. rock requirements, on the other hand, are specialized based on instrument preference. when comparing apples to apples, or in this case vocals to vocals, rock is much more "folk" or grassroots oriented than hip hop with a greater emphasis on vocal skill rather than rhythmn and rhyming.

 

otherwise, trying to compare the two genres then becomes more apples to oranges. if you really want to compare rock to something, then country music is a much better comparison since they mostly use the same instruments. the biggest difference between country and rock is the emphasis; country music emphasizes a much more laid back style where rock is much more action oriented. hip hop just doesn't really fit into either category, however, since few, if any, instruments are employed, and the primary emphasis on the vocals.

 

and i think one of the biggest mistakes that i've seen thus far in this thread is the confusion between the mass media image and hip hop. the mass media image is exactly what some of you describe: the whole emphasis on bling, urban life, domestic violence, etc. however, i think its rather important to maintain an objective view on things: hip hop is a style of music, not a mass media image.

 

i, for one, can think of multiple hip hop artists that don't conform to the mass media image, and its my opinion that a number of them are better than those that do conform to the mass media image. several of the more notable ones would be groups like Grits and The Cross Movement or solo artists such as KJ-52 or John Reuben.

 

anyways, with all that said, i do think that rock requires a greater degree of skill, but only because rock usually requires a certain degree of mastery with different instruments. for example, comparing Jay-Z's rapping skills with Steve Vai's guitar skills is hardly a contest. then again, comparing James Hetfield vocal skills to Kanye West's rapping skills is more than a bit different (sorry Metallica fanboys ).

[Rabish Bini]

@Milo - I don't like emo music, can't stand it, or at least, most of them. But I do agree with you on freestyle rap, that takes talent. And quite a bit of it too.

 

@Stinger - I wasn't implying rapping as in the guys with bling, tats and that shoot people when I made this thread, I was talking about the talent it requires to make rap, which is far less than rock.

[St. Jimmy]

several of the more notable ones would be groups like Grits and The Cross Movement or solo artists such as KJ-52 or John Reuben.

Amen to that. I like your thinking.

[Hannibal]

Rap's problem is that people only listen to certain types. So when people judge it they say "tatoos, gangster life, drugs and guns". Any person that know rap know that there's more to it than that.

 

One of the best rappers (possibly the best) today is Mos Def and you'll never here his music on the radio. I was always a big fan of A Tribe Called Quest and De La Sol. Two groups that if they came out now wouldn't have a shot a getting played. Don't dismiss something you don't actually know about.

 

Now I didn't start liking rock until we got cable (MTV)in the early 90s and I started listening to Guns N Roses, Metallica, Nirvana(still my favorite band), Pearl Jam, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers, etc. Again much like A Tribe Called Quest and De La Sol were I 13 and got MTV for the first time now I wouldn't be introduced to groups like that.

 

Don't judge a genre by the crappy popular music that cable channels and radio stations push on you.

 

Oops didn't answer the original post. Somebody said try to replicate both and see which one you can get quicker. Well replication is easy. Someone can paint a painting and I can copy it. Creativity is where the talent is and I say a guy writing great rhymes and creating his own beats is more talented than some band that copies the another band. And vice versa, a band that writes and creates their own music is more talented than a rapper that follows whatevers popular at the time (Chingy!).

The original poster basicly asked which tastes better apples or oranges.

I like them both and they can both be good or both have worms in them.

[MdKnightR]

The original poster basicly asked which tastes better apples or oranges.

I like them both and they can both be good or both have worms in them.

 

That is a more concise way to put what I said in my first post to this thread. You are going to find great examples and crap in both genres.

[Astrotoy7]

...One of the best rappers (possibly the best) today is Mos Def and you'll never here his music on the radio. I was always a big fan of A Tribe Called Quest and De La Sol. Two groups that if they came out now wouldn't have a shot a getting played. Don't dismiss something you don't actually know about.

 

 

Don't judge a genre by the crappy popular music that cable channels and radio stations push on you.

 

QFE.

 

Mos Def did an amazing performance of 'close to the edge' (EDIT: Mild language warning) on the chapelle show, rapping over an instrumental track Dave Chapelle was playing on his car cd player. I challenge anyone here who thinks rappers are talentless to deliver all the same lyrics - at the same speed and with the same accuracy of cadence...

 

Love that whole late 80s-90s hip hop A true golden era IMO. I Was just playing that De La Soul Song 'Saturday' in my car this morning...not really that violent, its a "Roller Skating Jam" after all

 

mtfbwya

[Balderdash]

No, I was talking about performing. By halfway competent, I mean being able to play decently enough to not get laughed off a stage. And I've been onstage dozens of times. I was playing in metal bands, doing nightclub gigs and getting my knob polished by waitresses in the backroom when a lot people posting on this website were still finger painting in elementary school. I know how hard it is and how long it takes to pull off a decent show. I know how much work it is to achieve proficiency as a musician. Just to get up and rap is easy by comparison, and only someone who's never picked up a guitar before in their lives would think otherwise.

If you're only going to talk to me about performing and not creating then it's not really a fair comparison, in terms of talent. Like I've said, for the most part, the creativity factor goes into writing great lyrics and imaginitive song concepts. Technique comes into play when trying to fit your rhymes into the most complex (but fluent) rhyme scheme possible, as well as how confident you are on the mic and how well you enunciate your words, with varying nuances of expression (commonly referred to as delivery and emotion). None of that is at all easy to master.

 

It's easy to make a bad rap song, sure; anyone can do it, and when that's all the mainstream exposure to rap music that you've had, you can probably be satisfied that you've mastered the art of emceeing. I'm telling you you haven't.

 

Just in case you're at all interested, I can play the guitar a little bit (acoustic) but I've never tried playing bass. Never really taken it really seriously though. I can't remember completely how to read sheet music, from my lessons and from school. Lots of modern rock musicians can't either, or course. Similarly I've never taken emceeing seriously but I kick freestyles with my friends and stuff. I have never ever tried my hand at turntablism, it's too expensive a hobby for my liking, but it looks like a lot of fun.

 

And hey, I give credit to really original rappers who can write songs and create things artistically. Don't think that I hate rap or rappers generally; I actually do like some of it. And certainly, creating intricate lyrics and rhymes takes work and talent. I never meant to imply that the entire rap genre was completely bereft of talent or creativity. Rap and rock have both suffered a lot in the last 10 years or so creatively; maybe I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of rock bands that have come out recently that I like and consider really talented. But at least they play. And that's more than rappers manage.

Except it's not entirely more. I can name good deal of emcees, producers and deejays who can play instruments and sing (and even some who can read sheet music, lol). I'm not just talking about crossover groups like Rage Against the Machine or the Beastie Boys, I'm talking about underground/indie artists, and unsigned artists who have substituted samples for live instrumentation. As has been said before, it's generally not the rule, but nonetheless it's naive to make a generalization to the contrary.

 

You are going to find great examples and crap in both genres.

Then ... why the sig?

 

Love that whole late 80s-90s hip hop A true golden era IMO. I Was just playing that De La Soul Song 'Saturday' in my car this morning...not really that violent, its a "Roller Skating Jam" after all

We went to see them live a few months back. We'll probably go again next year. De La is maybe my favourite hip-hop group ever. It's not violent at all (like duh). Smh @ some rap fans back in the day calling them hippies though ...

[cards227]

IMO its not even close. It takes more talent to master the art of playing an instrument, than to merely "talk" into a microphone and "talk" about killing people and doing drugs.

[Mace MacLeod]

Then ... why the sig?

Hahahaha!!!! I never even noticed that. Sweet. Good one, MdKnightR! Oh wait...I remember now from the "What are you listening to now" thread that you're the only other person on the planet who remembers the Vinnie Vincent Invasion.

 

And yes, thanks to record company amalgalmation, that vast, vast majority of both rap and rock genres have been swamped with unrelenting tonnages of complete crap. 99% of what I hear on the radio or my 50 music video channels is the musical equivalent of individually wrapped slices of processed cheeze.

 

anyways, with all that said, i do think that rock requires a greater degree of skill, but only because rock usually requires a certain degree of mastery with different instruments. for example, comparing Jay-Z's rapping skills with Steve Vai's guitar skills is hardly a contest. then again, comparing James Hetfield vocal skills to Kanye West's rapping skills is more than a bit different (sorry Metallica fanboys ).

There ya go. Instrument mastery is the key here. And Hetfield's vocals aren't exactly his strongest point...but like I said, learning to sing (ie. in tune, holding notes, etc) is a hard business. Especially when you're playing like he does.

Oops didn't answer the original post. Somebody said try to replicate both and see which one you can get quicker. Well replication is easy. Someone can paint a painting and I can copy it. Creativity is where the talent is and I say a guy writing great rhymes and creating his own beats is more talented than some band that copies the another band. And vice versa, a band that writes and creates their own music is more talented than a rapper that follows whatevers popular at the time (Chingy!).

The original poster basicly asked which tastes better apples or oranges.

I like them both and they can both be good or both have worms in them.

Hey, I give credit to real creativity in whatever musical form it takes, but don't knock my replication argument until you've given it a try. Creating something unique is hard no matter what style of music you're in, but just to actually do it should rate in terms of musical sophistication. In the same amount of time you could be busting mad rhymes in, you'd still probably be struggling with "Smoke on the Water" or "Highway to Hell".

 

And country music sucks.

[MTV2]

Mastering the guitar like Hendrix or Eddie Van Halen? Try decades. Those guys are one in a hundred million. They invented the techniques that are taken for granted by modern players.

thats why i enhanced the years part with italics. my guitar teacher told me that Hendrix, when he goes to the crapper, brings his guitar and just plays.

 

 

@Akuma: i hope you realized that System of a Down, Metallica and RATM are like hardcore. like yelling all over the place. f**king love them though.

 

 

 

I was watching Video on Trial. one of the guys (Trevor) said that to rap, all you need is Grillz. and that being able to sing and dance can help too.

[Mace MacLeod]

thats why i enhanced the years part with italics. my guitar teacher told me that Hendrix, when he goes to the crapper, brings his guitar and just plays.

A bit hard for him to manage it nowadays, having been dead since 1970 and all...

 

Jimi Hendrix pretty much invented the modern electric guitar technique. He was the first player to incorporate the noises an electric guitar makes (feedback, switch noises, distorted harmonics, etc.) into his playing. Interestingly, he actually played very briefly in James Brown's touring band, but got kicked out for showboating and taking people's attention away from James himself.

i hope you realized that System of a Down, Metallica and RATM are like hardcore. like yelling all over the place. f**king love them though.

Well, Metallica's "hardcore" playing was all before about 1991...they never were the same without Cliff Burton. Rage though...if you're learning guitar, listen to Tom Morello's playing. He's probably the most creative and original player since Eddie Van Halen. Seriously. All those noises he manages to make...sure, it's all pedals, but he thought of it first. And in the last real club and recording band I was in, Killing in the Name of... was our only cover song. Our guitar player had the harmonizer pedal, so he could actually do the solo properly. It was our traditional second-last song in our live set. We'd set the crowd up with that, then come back with our killer for the last song. Yes, we had a song that could follow Killing in the Name. It rocked.

[Astrotoy7]

IMO its not even close. It takes more talent to master the art of playing an instrument, than to merely "talk" into a microphone and "talk" about killing people and doing drugs.

 

 

attention: newbie who "contributes" to discussion without reading previous posts.

 

but I'll play along, rap is NOT all about those things, if you think it is, you are sorrily misinformed -

 

* * *

 

Being misinformed seems to be the general credentials of alot of people who make negative comments about hip hop. That, and I'll bet my kittens many are WASP teens that live in decent neighborhoods It is very easy in this instance to be totally disconnected from what the spirit of the genre is about. Instead, opinions are being stated on the basis of what people have "seen on MTV"........which is of course a credible source of news for cultural and community values expressed in music [/sarcasm]

 

The members here I know who are adults, have all made mature and measured statements...no matter whether what type of music they actually prefer. It's a very clear illustration of how opinionated, yet misinformed young people can sometimes be.

 

*sigh* 'Tis AHTO.

 

mtfbwya

[Hayden Kered]

Rock takes more talent than rap. Now these days it takes a lot to just make a great rock song. Just about everything has been sung about, and new rock songs are difficult to make unique. As for rap, all you have to do is make sure it rymes and that you can talk real fast.

[cards227]

attention: newbie who "contributes" to discussion without reading previous posts.

 

but I'll play along, rap is NOT all about those things, if you think it is, you are sorrily misinformed -

 

* * *

 

Being misinformed seems to be the general credentials of alot of people who make negative comments about hip hop. That, and I'll bet my kittens many are WASP teens that live in decent neighborhoods It is very easy in this instance to be totally disconnected from what the spirit of the genre is about. Instead, opinions are being stated on the basis of what people have "seen on MTV"........which is of course a credible source of news for cultural and community values expressed in music [/sarcasm]

 

The members here I know who are adults, have all made mature and measured statements...no matter whether what type of music they actually prefer. It's a very clear illustration of how opinionated, yet misinformed young people can sometimes be.

 

*sigh* 'Tis AHTO.

 

mtfbwya

I like rap that does not talk about those sort of things, like example the group xreignofterrorx raps about real things, and things that make you think. Now even tho i like them, i still think rock requires more talent than rap. And the reason i pointed out the thug rappers is because there making millions of dollars for saying those things that influence kids today. That kind of rap makes me embarrased to be an american.

[MdKnightR]

Then ... why the sig?

 

Because there is more crap in rap, imho.

 

 

Hahahaha!!!! I never even noticed that. Sweet. Good one, MdKnightR! Oh wait...I remember now from the "What are you listening to now" thread that you're the only other person on the planet who remembers the Vinnie Vincent Invasion.

 

Remember them? Heck, I still have both of their albums! I have "All Systems Go" on CD, cassette, and vinyl.

[Jae Onasi]

And country music sucks.

When I went to college near Branson, MO (2nd home of country music after Nashville), I thought I had stepped into music hell. There were 8 zillion country radio stations, and 2 rock stations, 1 of which I couldn't get in my dorm room. But there's some decent stuff there--usually by the local groups. I was an usher for one of the shows that a local group hosted, and they had some good music.

We listen to a lot of Christian rock in our house (big surprise there. ), and that field is finally starting to make headway musically. It has a long way to go since the emphasis has always been on the message/lyrics instead of the music, but it's made a lot of strides even in the last 5 years in variety and depth. It took Michael W. Smith and Amy Grant doing cross-overs into 'mainstream' to convince my evangelical brethren that rock was not going to cause eternal damnation.

 

Remember them? Heck, I still have both of their albums! I have "All Systems Go" on CD, cassette, and vinyl.

Heh, how many of us still have vinyl? Jimbo was taking an iceskating class at a college in the mid-90's, and a remake of a song came on. One of the 18 year olds in the class was talking with him and mentioned she thought it was a great song. Jimbo said, "Oh, yeah, it's a remake. I used to have it on a 45." She replied, "What's a 45?" Jimbo said that's the day he started to feel 'old'. We have a box of LPs in our basement still. At least they're finally making mass market turntables again so we can play them.

[Mace MacLeod]

Remember them? Heck, I still have both of their albums! I have "All Systems Go" on CD, cassette, and vinyl.

Dude. You bought All Systems Go three times? I only laid out coin for it once, and between the two of us, we probably account for half that album's total sales.

 

@Jae: Y'know, I've really never understood the point of Christian rock. If you're in a heavy band, and your music doesn't at least partially convey an irrational hatred of all living creatures, what's the point?

[MdKnightR]

We listen to a lot of Christian rock in our house (big surprise there. ), and that field is finally starting to make headway musically. It has a long way to go since the emphasis has always been on the message/lyrics instead of the music, but it's made a lot of strides even in the last 5 years in variety and depth. It took Michael W. Smith and Amy Grant doing cross-overs into 'mainstream' to convince my evangelical brethren that rock was not going to cause eternal damnation.

 

 

I'm afraid that I have to go the other way on this. I don't think that Christian Rock has gotten any better. In my opinion, it was in its hey-day in the 80s with bands like Stryper, Bloodgood, Barren Cross, and, my personal favorite, Rage of Angels.

 

Dude. You bought All Systems Go three times? I only laid out coin for it once, and between the two of us, we probably account for half that album's total sales.

 

Yeah, I did at that! The only reason I bought it that many times is because I got it on cassette and then realized that the LP and CD versions had content unique to each. To get every song, I had to have all 3. Of course, if something like that came out today, I'd just download it.

[Jae Onasi]

@Jae: Y'know, I've really never understood the point of Christian rock. If you're in a heavy band, and your music doesn't at least partially convey an irrational hatred of all living creatures, what's the point?

 

Naw, they just alter it a bit and go for the hatred of all evil theme instead. I think it's kind of a weird melange at times, but hey, why not. I wouldn't have thought of Sting putting rock and Middle Eastern music together on Desert Rose, but it worked for me.

 

@MdKnightR--There's a lot more of Christian music now, in greater variety (my sister is in love with the Christian rap groups), produced with better quality/more professionalism, and it doesn't all sound like Gaither/Smith/Grant/Petra wannabe songs anymore. There are a number of radio stations devoted to just this genre, something that was not the case 10-15 years ago. We've had 2 Christian rock stations pop up in the last 5-10 years or so in the Milwaukee/Chicago market. The Chicago one didn't make it, but it's pretty hard to compete against WMBI. Probably would have been a little more accurate for me to say more choice/quality=better in this particular case.

I think all rock, not just Christian rock, had one of its heyday in the 80's (to go along with the 60's). Except Devo. I don't care if anyone else loves them, I just can't take any band whose members wear red plastic flowerpots on their heads seriously.

[MTV2]

A bit hard for him to manage it nowadays, having been dead since 1970 and all...

 

 

Well, Metallica's "hardcore" playing was all before about 1991...they never were the same without Cliff Burton.

oops, thought i was talking in present tense. when he went to the the crapper...i knew he was dead though.

 

 

 

i don't really like any of Metallica's new songs. like their St.Anger CD was really bad. i have like all there other CD's and they're awesome.