The Greatest of the Sith

[Sabretooth]

Actually, he killed Tons of Jedi Masters, including Shaak Ti....

 

Just killing a dozen hiding Jedi masters can't make you the great Sith Lord. Vader still couldn't muster the courage to strike out at the Emperor on his own. He was still treated like a slave by his master. If you ask me, the Sith rely on not only physical strength, but mental cunning - and that mental cunning could be found in the likes of Kun, Bane, Sidious and so on.

[Anakin Skywalker]

You're friends are all arrayed against me

 

No he didn't. That were Grevous I believe.

 

No, Anakin killed Shaak Ti, that one scene where Grevious killed Shaak, was cut, as Anakin had to kill Shaak to get a Jedi/Sith Holocron from the Temple, for Darth Sidious...

 

@Sabretooth

 

Anakin was waiting for the right time to kill Sidious, he would have killed him after his battle, had Obi-wan not survived, and chopped him to bits....

[Rogue15]

The greatest Master would be Darth Sidious, greatest apprentice I would say is either Malak, Maul, or Vader. I really liked Darth Malak's story.

[Vaelastraz]

@Sabretooth

 

Anakin was waiting for the right time to kill Sidious, he would have killed him after his battle, had Obi-wan not survived, and chopped him to bits....

 

He wouldn't have been able to do so. Anakin did never reach his potential. Palpatine would have killed him swiftly. It appears that Sidious was the greatest force sensitive of his time.

 

That doesn't make him the greatest Sith Lord though, as there are plenty of other eras with Sithlords equal or superior in power.

[Sabretooth]

Anakin was waiting for the right time to kill Sidious, he would have killed him after his battle, had Obi-wan not survived, and chopped him to bits....

 

The only time I saw Darth Vader trying to usurp power was when he found a suitable apprentice, like Luke or Padme. He was acting a pet dog to Palpatine rest of the time.

[Hayden Kered]

^^^Agreed. The question Obi-Wan Baloney asked is not restricted to just the movies and games. There is a whole EU with several Sith Lords.

 

On Palpatine - If he was so great then why was he so easy to kill? And why would he need dozens of clones when he was reborn? If he was all so powerful then he would have no use for clones. He was just a pretender. He tried to rule the Sith by himself and without Vader, he just used Vader as his pawn. There must be 2 Sith Lords, not just one. As Bane pointed out to Krayt, his Rule of One will soon turn on its self just like it did Palpatine.

 

On Vader - Ok, so he wiped out the entire Jedi Temple, even though there was a mass army marching in back of him. It's pretty pathetic that a great Sith Lord, who supposedly reached his climax in power at the time, was bested by one Jedi. Then he saved his son by killing the Emperor, a true sith does not show mercy to any one. The Sith believe that those who beg for mercy do not deserve it. And Palpatine never allowed Vader to become any more stronger than what he was.

[Kas'!m]

defeated all of his opponents in his own lifetime (mostly without even drawing his sword), and achieved immortality upon death.

 

What did any other do that was *better*?

 

There is nothing in canon about that.

 

Naga Sadow kept himself alive for 600 years and destroyed a star.

 

Freedon Nadd killed a man just by touching him and caused a cave-in on Korriban while he was dead.

 

Exar Kun froze thousands of Senators, drained the lives of thousands of Massassi, created the double-bladed lightsaber,and ripped Luke's spirit out from him.

 

Bane tricked the Sith into destroying themselves.

 

All better than Marka Ragnos.

[stoffe]

So, is "greatness" measured by the magnitude of the death and destruction someone has caused? Is body count really the measure of greatness among the Sith? Sounds pretty pointless to me; destruction is usually easier than building and creating.

 

(If so an unstopped Darth Nihilus would probably have been the greatest, being the last man standing in the galaxy after having drained all other life to death.)

[Sabretooth]

There is nothing in canon about that.

 

Naga Sadow kept himself alive for 600 years and destroyed a star.

 

Freedon Nadd killed a man just by touching him and caused a cave-in on Korriban while he was dead.

 

Exar Kun froze thousands of Senators, drained the lives of thousands of Massassi, created the double-bladed lightsaber,and ripped Luke's spirit out from him.

 

Bane tricked the Sith into destroying themselves.

 

All better than Marka Ragnos.

 

But Ragnos could keep his empire stable and flourishing.

 

Naga died on Yavin 4, defeated and powerless.

 

Freedon, well, acted more after his death.

 

Kun was pretty respectable, but he lost in the end and failed yet again after death.

 

Being a Sith isn't about killing, destroying and blasting, man.

[SilentScope001]

But Ragnos could keep his empire stable and flourishing.

 

But other than keeping his empire safe and secure...Ragnos did nothing else.

 

He did not take over territories, he did not enslave any new races. Instead, all Ragnos did was keep the status quo. That would be like saying Bill Clinton is the best President ever because, during his rule, nothing bad ever happened.

 

Kreia, as well as the rest of the Sith, would hate Ragnos. After all, you have to prove that you are powerful, and Ragnos...well, have not done so. Never engaging in wars, Ragnos didi not actually show his might.

 

Still, judging from the fact that most Sith Lords die unnatural deaths, and Ragnos died a good natural death, I'll still say that he's the Second Best Sith Lord out there. (First Best is Palpatine, and that's only because George Lucas says so.)

[PoiuyWired]

Darth Jacen... NOT.

 

Darth Krayt seems interesting so far... But yeah no one tops Exar Kun.

[stoffe]

He did not take over territories, he did not enslave any new races. Instead, all Ragnos did was keep the status quo. That would be like saying Bill Clinton is the best President ever because, during his rule, nothing bad ever happened.

 

I'd say it shows some strength to be able to stay over a century in power of a group as prone to in-fighting and scheming as the Sith. As would it be to lead such a warlike people without having to go to war to satisfy the masses.

 

Most Sith lords seem to prefer doing something spectacular and then burn out and die or lose power shortly thereafter. Shortsightedness and a tendency of over-reaching seems to be one of their biggest flaws over all, with a few exceptions.

[Darth InSidious]

There is nothing in canon about that.

Um, yes there is

Click!

Look at the sources cited, or better still, look up 'canonicity'

Naga Sadow kept himself alive for 600 years and destroyed a star.

So? Yoda was 900 years old at the time of his death, and the Death Star destroyed Alderaan. Does this mean that either would be good Sith? No.

Freedon Nadd killed a man just by touching him and caused a cave-in on Korriban while he was dead.

He learnt his power from Sadow, who was weaker than Ragnos. Or else why did he only assume the mantle of Dark Lord after Ragnos' death?

Exar Kun froze thousands of Senators, drained the lives of thousands of Massassi, created the double-bladed lightsaber,and ripped Luke's spirit out from him.

So? Prove to me that Ragnos couldn't do any of that

Bane tricked the Sith into destroying themselves.

Uhh, yes...And this is evidence in *favour* of him as the Greatest Sith...how, exactly?

All better than Marka Ragnos.

No, all much more *stupid* than Marka Ragnos

But other than keeping his empire safe and secure...Ragnos did nothing else.

 

He did not take over territories, he did not enslave any new races. Instead, all Ragnos did was keep the status quo.

Ragnos consolidated the empire, and didn't overstretch himself. Resisting the Sith's natural and somewhat arrogant desire to conquer the galaxy, and their belief that they were able, was no mean feat.

That would be like saying Bill Clinton is the best President ever because, during his rule, nothing bad ever happened.

It certainly is something in his favour.

Kreia, as well as the rest of the Sith, would hate Ragnos. After all, you have to prove that you are powerful, and Ragnos...well, have not done so. Never engaging in wars, Ragnos didi not actually show his might.

He defeated Simus in battle, proving his right to rule. Listen to Kreia's speech outside Ragnos' tomb again. She is quite clearly awed by the great man.

Still, judging from the fact that most Sith Lords die unnatural deaths, and Ragnos died a good natural death, I'll still say that he's the Second Best Sith Lord out there. (First Best is Palpatine, and that's only because George Lucas says so.)

Fair enough. My main point is that his power *stayed*. Unlike almost every other Dark Lord, he wasn't destroyed, and his empire didn't crumble right after his death

 

@stoffe: Exactly

[Kas'!m]

So? Yoda was 900 years old at the time of his death, and the Death Star destroyed Alderaan. Does this mean that either would be good Sith?

Yes.

 

He learnt his power from Sadow, who was weaker than Ragnos. Or else why did he only assume the mantle of Dark Lord after Ragnos' death?

Nadd was born then.

 

So? Prove to me that Ragnos couldn't do any of that

 

Prove that he can do anything.

 

Uhh, yes...And this is evidence in *favour* of him as the Greatest Sith...how, exactly?

Pretty damned obvious.

[Darth InSidious]

Yes.

Darth Death Star...All power and no brain. Just like Vader, I suppose. *sighs*.

 

Nadd was born then.

Relevance?

Prove that he can do anything.

Prove to me that the Earth doesn't revolve around a piece of cheesecake.

 

He defeated Darth Simus in battle, who was, to say the least, quite powerful, given that he managed to survive being beheaded.

Pretty damned obvious.

Nope. He brings about the destruction of his entire Order...That does not make one great...

[SilentScope001]

Okay, I'll abandon my love for canon, seeing that I disrespect canon most of the time.

 

The term "greatness" is an adjiective that is usually given to show what a person believes is great. It tells more of the person who is describing greatness than it does of the actual person the title is given to.

 

That said, I'd say that, to me (forgetting what George Lucas ever said), Kreia is the Greatest of the Sith. She's a great manliputator, able to get others to do her bidding, willingly or not. She claimed that the Jedi Council always saw her students as "failures", but I would not call Revan, Darth Nihlius, and Exile "failures", due to all of them being great and mighty Force Users. She formed a new Sith Order that waged the very succesful "Shadow War" against the Jedi, completing the task that Malak has set forth. She was able to get rid of 4 Jedi Masters, killing off 3 Jedi Masters at the Conclave and turning the fourth one (Atris) to her side.

 

Palpatine almost did what Kreia had done. Palpatine got rid of the Jedi Order except for 2, yes, 2 Jedi, Yoda and Obi-Wan. Biggest mistake as the Jedi Order was able to recover with the use of Luke. Palpatine's greatest accomplishments were wiped out rather quickly.

 

Look at what Kreia done. By waging her "Shadow War", she was responsible for the hiding and later the actual destruction of the Jedi Order. In its place, Kreia found the "Lost Jedi", and used the Exile to teach these "Lost Jedi" to create a brand new Jedi Order. Prehaps, the Exile may even lead this Jedi Order, and if so, Kreia's accomplishments are all the more remarkable.

 

See her "echoes", and how she was able to contorl the galaxy. Unlike Palpatine, she elimanted all the last Jedi, and created a new Jedi Order that (to her, and to the now-dead Jedi Council) is basically Sith in all but name. She, in fact, held the entire galaxy by her throat, prehaps via Revan...only to let it go. That was true power, to know when to stop.

 

The only reason she may not qualify is the fact that people may claim she is not really a Sith, either because she has renounced the Sith, or she hates the Force. Still, I would like to list her qualifications, and Kreia herself state, "Sith is a title, yes", stating that she is in fact a Sith...but it is not who she is. Plus, the reason she trained The Exile was because she thought that he was strong, so strong that he can give up The Force. Kreia is in awe of that sort of strength, and "awe of strength" sounds very Sith-like to me. Atton's quote about Kreia also backs up the assertion that she is Sith.

 

Even Rangos's Sith Empire crumbled when he died, not immeadily after his death, but the mini-Sith Civil War that resulted did not help the Sith during the Hyperspace Wars (...and maybe because of his death, since he was so powerful, there was no powerbase that would take over in the case of his death). Kreia's "legacy" did not. I speculate that the Jedi Order that Kreia help create is the Old Jedi Order...lasting for a very long time, up until the end of the NT. And she created a very powerful Force User named The Exile, and indoctrined him with her beliefs. She was able to create her pet goal of creating a wound in the Force that would expand forever...since that Wound was The Exile, who automatically grows more powerful, wheter he wants to or not.

 

She has left a legacy that would spread....a legacy that we has not seen destroyed. So, that is who I nominate as Greatest of the Sith.

[Sabretooth]

But other than keeping his empire safe and secure...Ragnos did nothing else.

 

He did not take over territories, he did not enslave any new races. Instead, all Ragnos did was keep the status quo. That would be like saying Bill Clinton is the best President ever because, during his rule, nothing bad ever happened.

 

If all the other Presidents tried to conquer Mexico and Canada and failed miserably, yes, I think Bill Clinton would be the greatest President seen by America.

 

Even Rangos's Sith Empire crumbled when he died, not immeadily after his death, but the mini-Sith Civil War that resulted did not help the Sith during the Hyperspace Wars (...and maybe because of his death, since he was so powerful, there was no powerbase that would take over in the case of his death).

 

But Ragnos kept his Empire safe during his time. The reason for the dissolution of the Sith Empire was because of Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh.

[SilentScope001]

But Ragnos kept his Empire safe during his time. The reason for the dissolution of the Sith Empire was because of Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh.

 

True, but I'm thinking afterwards. I mean, it's not his fault. A Golden Age is a Golden Age. And since he is pretty great, anyone that succed after him won't be as great. Still, he did not create a successor to rule after him, causing the Naga Sadow vs. Ludo Kressh war. Still, this is the Sith we're dealing with here...a successor who is compenent and great would most likely end your life.

[Aurora Starfire]

Okay, I just picked up on this topic, so I have a lot to say on various things (I'll try to refrain from commenting on things not neccessarily pertinent to the topic):

 

Obi-Wan Baloney wrote:

who is truly the greatest of the Sith Lords? I really don't think Vader was a true Sith because he turned back to the light and never said the word Sith, he was just a Dark Jedi. My choice for greatest Sith is Freedon Nadd.Ulic Qel-Droma and Exar Kun were really cool too!

Ulic Qel-Droma turned back to the light, too.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kas!m

Naga Sadow kept himself alive for 600 years and destroyed a star.

 

 

Originally posted by Darth InSidious:

So? Yoda was 900 years old at the time of his death, and the Death Star destroyed Alderaan. Does this mean that either would be good Sith? No.

Yoda was naturally able to live an extremely long time. Naga Sadow used his dark arts to preserve his life.

 

SilentScope001 wrote: Palpatine. Lucas said so.

This is an important point.

 

SilentScope001 wrote:

And she created a very powerful Force User named The Exile, and indoctrined him with her beliefs. She was able to create her pet goal of creating a wound in the Force that would expand forever...since that Wound was The Exile, who automatically grows more powerful, wheter he wants to or not.

The wound in the Force was closed when the Exile destroyed Malachor V (assuming, of course, that the Exile is LS)

 

Okay, I think that I was able to keep my comments down to the on-topic stuff (imagine me laughing at certain funny comments)

Darth InSidious wrote:

Prove to me that the Earth doesn't revolve around a piece of cheesecake.

 

Given the data that I have collected from the various posts here, and the stuff I have read throughout canon materials, I must conclude that the greatest Sith Lord was Palpatine, given that he did, in fact, cause both the Republic and the Jedi Order as such (a few Jedi remaining alive does not mean the Jedi Order still exists; look at KotOR: TSL) to cease to exist; he was able to resurrect himself after the death of his physical body; he created a Galactic Empire; he was able to deceive aforementioned Republic and Jedi Order, concealing his presence from them entirely until he chose to reveal it; he destroyed several planets; enslaved the Noghri race (through Darth Vader); and finally, because George Lucas said so. There, I think I covered all the main points that people have brought up for greatness.

 

Now I'd just like to go on record as saying that personally, I do not believe that any Sith or darksiders are great in any shape or fashion. I have never even played DS in KotOR. But, if any of them were great, it would be Palpatine.

 

PS: Merry Christmas!

[KotO[REvan]]

Who is the greatest of the Sith? Who is the darkest lord of them all? Complicated question, easy answer; HK-47.

[Dark_Lady]

If all the other Presidents tried to conquer Mexico and Canada and failed miserably, yes, I think Bill Clinton would be the greatest President seen by America.

Not if one of the other Presidents managed to conquer the whole world. And rule it with an iron fist. And then ressurrect himself later. Several times. (This is, of course, comparing America to the Sith. Substitute another random country if it offends you.)

[Jae Onasi]

Palpatine. Lucas said so.

 

The Statement on the new 6 degrees of Star Wars Canon (undoubtedly written by someone belonging in Hotel Asylum) has declared that 'Whatever Lucas Says Shall Be Star Wars Law'. Therefore, Palpatine is The Man. Or The Sith in this case.

We, at WookieWikiWarrickWicketpedia, wish to clear up the confusion of ‘Canon’ in Star Wars by instituting a new classification system on how to rank the different Star Wars and Star Wars EU materials. This will replace the Canon-a, b, and c system, which was becoming just too confusing, resulting in many emails from forum administrators and moderators who were ‘having to deal with too damn many threads on arguments over Canon’.

 

1st degree Canon shall be The Movies. Radio adaptations, so long as they include voices from the Original Actors (and Actresses) shall also be 1st degree Canon. The Screenplays are also 1st degree Canon, but only if George Lucas put a ‘GL’ on every page. The official soundtracks are 1st degree Canon, because John Williams has included the use of both the bassoon and the triangle in his music, and quite possibly the krummhorn. Anything spoken by George Lucas is first degree Canon, including those more mundane statements like ‘I want to order a pizza’ and ‘I have to find the nearest restroom.’

[Sabretooth]

Not if one of the other Presidents managed to conquer the whole world. And rule it with an iron fist. And then ressurrect himself later. Several times. (This is, of course, comparing America to the Sith. Substitute another random country if it offends you.)

 

Well "that guy" went in with all the ither presidents. And I'm not American, so no worries.

[Dark_Lady]

But Palpatine did conquer the galaxy, so applying that analogy to Marka Ragnos and the other Sith is invalid. And I got you to shoot it down yourself.

 

I am American, and I wasn't offended either. It was just a random disclaimer statement of the sort I make sometimes for no apparent reason whatsoever.

[SilentScope001]

The wound in the Force was closed when the Exile destroyed Malachor V (assuming, of course, that the Exile is LS)

 

Nope. The wound is still there, and the Exile is still stealing the Force from everywhere else. The reason Malachor V was destroyed was that it was part of the True Sith Empire, and that it must be smashed so that others don't get the teachings of using Force Bonds (that, or be used to further the goals of the Exile, in the DS ending). The wound is still there, and the Exile still has it.