Battle of the Darths

[Jediphile]

Here is some history for those who don't know. Darth Vader (Anakin Skywalker) WAS the chosen one. He was discovered having great force energy and he was trained. After falling to the dark side he fell to his master Obi-wan Kenobi. Darth Vader was meant to be TWICE as powerful as the Darth Sidious... yes TWICE. But the injuries (the burns to his body and lungs (which is why he needed respirators) and his lost limbs) crippled his powers hugely to only become 80% as powerful as Palpatine.

 

As this is just the point - Anakin was perhaps most powerful force-user ever, and only his children could rival him. However, because of the reasons you say, he never got anywhere close to his true potential. Conclusion: He could easily have been the greatest Jedi or Sith, but circumstances made him fall short of his potential, and so he was not the greatest.

 

Personally, I think Lucas' explanation doesn't make sense. "Look at me - judge me by my size do you?" Yoda said. Well, we shouldn't, but apparently the same principle does not apply for Anakin for some odd reason. What, his force is suddenly less because he is not all organic? Is Luke less powerful because he has a prosthetic hand? Never made sense to me...

[SilentScope001]

Personally, I think Lucas' explanation doesn't make sense. "Look at me - judge me by my size do you?" Yoda said. Well, we shouldn't, but apparently the same principle does not apply for Anakin for some odd reason. What, his force is suddenly less because he is not all organic? Is Luke less powerful because he has a prosthetic hand? Never made sense to me...

 

Flesh, living flesh, is what makes the Force. Only living things create the Force.

 

Is a prostheic hand...living? Nope.

[Kas'!m]

Bane makes everyone else on that list look like Padawans. hell, when the sequel to Path of Destruction comes out, even Rain might be the same as her master.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Bane makes everyone else on that list look like Padawans.

Nihilus makes Bane look like a nice plate of chicken and fried rice.

[Jediphile]

Flesh, living flesh, is what makes the Force. Only living things create the Force.

 

Is a prostheic hand...living? Nope.

 

"Luminous being are we, not this crude matter," was Yoda's point.

 

If he was right, then losing a hand, or even an arm or several legs wouldn't matter, because the force is not based on your physical volume.

 

By your argument, Yoda himself should have been fairly weak, since he's so much smaller than any of the humans in the films, and since his body therefore consists of less living flesh, he would also had less force. Only that is not the case.

 

Because the force does not seem to depend on that. It depends on the spirit behind the physique. Or the soul, if you will.

 

If Lucas had argued that Anakin could not reach his potential, because his spirit was broken and not whole, then it wouldn't be a problem. It would even explain his inability to reach his potential, since he embraced the dark side out of fear and inability to let go, and thereby maimed his own soul.

 

Unless, of course, Yoda was just mistaken...

[SilentScope001]

By your argument, Yoda himself should have been fairly weak, since he's so much smaller than any of the humans in the films, and since his body therefore consists of less living flesh, he would also had less force. Only that is not the case.

 

But Yoda is not a human.

 

Suppose a Human has a Force per Skin ratio of 50 Force Points.

 

And the Green Alien Race of Yoda has a Force per Skin ratio of 1000 Force Points.

 

So, Yoda has less Skin but more Force is being produced per Skin. Therefore, Yoda is more powerful than a Human, due to the higher Force per Skin ratio. So, Luke Skywalker, losing a lot of Skin, can become pretty weak. Yoda however is strong because he has intact skin...but just poke Yoda, and take away a bit of his skin, and he will become VERY, VERY Weak.

 

Blame George Lucas.

[Jediphile]

But Yoda is not a human.

 

Suppose a Human has a Force per Skin ratio of 50 Force Points.

 

And the Green Alien Race of Yoda has a Force per Skin ratio of 1000 Force Points.

 

So, Yoda has less Skin but more Force is being produced per Skin. Therefore, Yoda is more powerful than a Human, due to the higher Force per Skin ratio. So, Luke Skywalker, losing a lot of Skin, can become pretty weak. Yoda however is strong because he has intact skin...but just poke Yoda, and take away a bit of his skin, and he will become VERY, VERY Weak.

 

Blame George Lucas.

 

I do, but I still think this is an absurd argument.

 

I mean, lets take it to the next logical conclusion.

 

You say Yoda doesn't count, because he's not human. Okay, let's assume I buy into that.

 

But that still leaves us with the conclusion that any being would become more powerful in the force by simply increasing his body mass. So he could just eat until he gets really, really fat. Why didn't Vader do that then? If you're right, he should have been able to regain a good deal of his lost force power that way.

 

And where are all those fatty Sith Lords, who must then obviously be more powerful than their slim and trim compatriots?

[SilentScope001]

But that still leaves us with the conclusion that any being would become more powerful in the force by simply increasing his body mass. So he could just eat until he gets really, really fat. Why didn't Vader do that then? If you're right, he should have been able to regain a good deal of his lost force power that way.

 

You may make a good point, but I assume that fat is really taking up a lot of space and really won't help in replinishing the Force Power...It seems that Vader is very damaged however, and has a breathing mask to make sure that he receives the nutrients he need to continue to live...and all food intake is contorlled by Palpatine. It can be reasonably assumed that Palpatine pulled strings to make sure Vader did not receive the food that Vader needs to become fat and strong in the Force, thereby weakening Vader and ensuring him as a pawn...

 

Now that I think about it, that WOULD explain why Yoda was wanting to eat lots and lots of food when we meet him in ESB. He wants to gain more Force Power that way.

 

And where are all those fatty Sith Lords, who must then obviously be more powerful than their slim and trim compatriots?

 

If we can assume The Force to be something similar to just Plain Old Luck...

 

The more fatter you are, the more Force you have. The more Force you have, the more luckier you are and the more good things happen to you. Since fat is usually considered unattricate, people would subconsisuly use the Force that they gained from being fat to make themselves look thin and neat...even so they may weigh 500 pounds.

 

I think that the weight of all Jedi and Sith has not been canonized as of yet. It could be Luke is 400 pounds, Kreia is 800 pounds, Nihlius is 2 ton, etc. The more heavier you are, the more powerful in the Force you are, but since you are powerful in the Force, you subconisuly use it to make you look beautiful and look thin, even so you are not.

 

I can imagine the slogan: "Lose weight by eating more!"

[Prime]

Alright, let's cut out the foolishness.

[Rockstar]

Darth Vader had the potential to be very powerful. But he wasn't. Maybe he could have broken Sion's will, but Sion is IMO the better duelist.

 

How the heck do you figure that?! Darth Vader was a GREAT dualist! Darth Sion was good but Darth Vader is well... he is Vader! He would have defeated Sion imo...

 

What, his force is suddenly less because he is not all organic? Is Luke less powerful because he has a prosthetic hand? Never made sense to me. [/Quote]

 

Anikin lost HALF HIS BODY and the remains of him was burnt inside and out. Any other Jedi or Sith would have died from these injuries (barring Darth Sion). It's his force power that kept him alive. A hand makes up a small percentage of the body. Losing 4 entire limbs and being burnt to a crisp AND losing the love of your life by your own hand (so he believed) is anther story.

 

Size has NOTHING to do with force energy. The force is stronger in some, less so in others. It's that simple. I think Yoda would have owned them all

[SilentScope001]

How the heck do you figure that?! Darth Vader was a GREAT dualist! Darth Sion was good but Darth Vader is well... he is Vader! He would have defeated Sion imo...

 

Vader *attacks Sion*

 

Sion dies. Sion stands up.

 

Vader *attacks Sion*

 

Sion dies. Sion Stands Up.

 

Sion: "You cannot kill me, unless you break my will! Which you cannot do! So, hah!"

 

Vader: "You're an idiot!"

 

Sion: "Sorry, my will is not broken."

 

Vader: "NOOOOOO!"

 

Sion attacks.

 

Vader dies.

 

.

.

.

 

Vader has not resurrected yet.

 

Alright, let's cut out the foolishness.

 

Oh well. And I was having some fun too.

[Prime]

Oh well. And I was having some fun too.

OK, but just reminding everyone to be careful with the racial comments. Even if they aren't serious they can be taken the wrong way.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

I may be taking this in the wrong way, but this whole thing about more flesh = more power is crazy. I mean, how the crap would Vader be as powerful as he is when the only flesh he has is on his torso and head?

 

OK, but just reminding everyone to be careful with the racial comments. Even if they aren't serious they can be taken the wrong way.

Oh, sorry about that. I was just making the connection between Nihilus "eating" people and Bane just becoming another tasty dinner for him. Didn't mean anything racial, just havin' some fun.

[Henz]

Sidious and Traya would be completely fooked in a straight fight. Nihlus would own everyone, and would continue owning Sion until his will was broken. Then Nihlus would starve to death lol

[Ctrl Alt Del]

Hmmmm. yes. Now tha I think of it, all of them would lose, a massive draw. Nihilus, after killing them all, would die, consumed by his hunger.

[Eiganjo]

Seriously, if they are all locked up in a small room, I would go for the close combat fighter, meaning Sion or Revan.

I don't think Nihilus would win, because I always kind of imagined his drain powers to be kind of slowly working, and that's why he hides out in his ship the whole time. But of course we don't know since we never actually saw him use it. But in the game, he was killed rather quickly once the sword-fighting started.

[Rockstar]

^^ Nihilus was quick to defeat because he drained a wound in the force and weakened himself. Like other bosses, he was too easy and he just seemed easier because by that stage in the game your strength is through the roof and it wasn't like Darth Sion's battle which accounted for how powerful you could become.

 

Why do you think Sion is such a great duelist??? where is any evidence that he is any better at dueling than any other? I believe he LOOKS more like a maurauder like Darth Maul was rather than a Sithlord but we have no proof of this...

[Jediphile]

Nihilus can use his power rather quickly. I hear people saying you can avoid it in the fight against him, but it always happens in my games, and it's always a cutscene that runs fairly quickly, and most of its length is due to the adverse effects the attempt to drain the exile has on Nihilus himself. It might take him longer to absorb an entire planet like Katarr, as judging from the comic book description of Katarr's destruction, lasted for a while. Then again, as Visas lies on the ground, suddenly Nihilus is there, meaning he must have taken a shuttle down to the planet... Anyway, it does't matter, because used in combat, the power is clearly just as instantaneous as any force power.

[Vaelastraz]

How the heck do you figure that?! Darth Vader was a GREAT dualist! Darth Sion was good but Darth Vader is well... he is Vader! He would have defeated Sion imo...

 

 

 

And how the heck do you figure that Vader is a great duelist? By watching the movies? Jet Li would certainly defeat an episode 5 or 6 Vader in lightsaber combat. And he's not even force-sensitive (or maybe he is...)

And I would defeat the episode 4 vader in combat.

 

Now I know, that's a lame argument, since those movies are very old, but still, you can't say "Vader is a great duelist" just like that. Prove it.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

^ Agreed. His fighting style was... the robot dance!

[Jediphile]

Vader is a great forceuser and duelist because Lucas says so.

[Obi-Wan Baloney]

Vader was very skilled in using just one hand to attack with his lightsaber, very classical.The best lightsaber duelist in the bunch is Dooku though. I always liked Sion, very spooky. I would have to say Darth Maul or Dooku in the battle. The double-bladed lightsaber is very hard to master and Maul is one of the best.But what about classic Dark Jedi like Exar Kun and Freedon Nadd. You can't forget the Golden Age of the Sith either.

[The Architect]

Nihilus would win, no question.

 

@Kas’!m, how was what EagerWeasel said a black joke? Wouldn’t it have been a black joke if he said Nihilus would make Bane look like a nice plate of fried chicken and watermelon?

 

Let's not ask about that incident anymore ok? Thanks. -RH

 

You do like typing red coloured quotes in my posts don’t you RH? Lol. But yes, consider the matter dropped. In fact, what incident? What are you talking about? Lol.

[Rockstar]

Vader is a great forceuser and duelist because Lucas says so.

 

that's right!

 

Darth Vader in Ep 4-6 is FAR FAR more powerful than Darth Vader in Ep 3... evidence??? Ep 3 Vader lost, Ep 4 Vader wins against the same opponent.

 

You are being very silly and judging Vader's saber skills by the films. Remember the first films are SO much older and dated whilst the new films have had 20 odd years (or whateva it is) to create the most intense looking fight scenes by attracting sword masters to do the corriography.

 

Vader STILL grew in power between Ep 3 and 4 but it was no where near as high as it would have been had he not been maimed.

 

I have to say Darth Tyranus was a great dualist and maybe the best (baring the classic Sith)

 

OK here are some basics that it seems some people don't know.

 

Q: Why are Jedi/Sith able to fight so fast and accurately?

A: Because they use the force to forsee what the other fighter is about to do, they are probably a few moves ahead of what is happening. This is why no ordinary warrior could beat them melee and how they deflect blaster shots.

HOWEVER: against other Jedi/Sith, they use the light/dark side to cloud the prediction of the opponent.

 

LIGHT SABER SKILLS ARE IN SIMILAR LINE WITH FORCE SKILLS AND SENSITIVITY

 

lol

 

Yoda would have defeated Dooku had he enough time (hense why dooku destracts him)

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Darth Vader in Ep 4-6 is FAR FAR more powerful than Darth Vader in Ep 3... evidence??? Ep 3 Vader lost, Ep 4 Vader wins against the same opponent.

 

You are being very silly and judging Vader's saber skills by the films. Remember the first films are SO much older and dated whilst the new films have had 20 odd years (or whateva it is) to create the most intense looking fight scenes by attracting sword masters to do the corriography.

Oh yea, God forbid you base your facts on the movies...

 

If you've never noticed, Obi-Wan let Vader win in Ep.4. Vader was a better duelist back in Ep.3 because then, he still had more limbs than he didn't have. It's much harder for a person with mechanical limbs to run around, do flips, and swing his lightsaber around really fast than it is for a fully-limbed person.